professionals and melvin davis question

[Dobber]

was melvin davis part of the professionals?

i ask,because ive played these 2 songs side by side and they are exactly the same?

professionals-did my baby call ( b side to thats why i love you) on groovesville

melvin davis-did my baby call-wheelsville

https://youtu.be/9ULR7fdM7bg

https://youtu.be/60Q0NeaXGuA

[Swifty]

Don't know the answer Dobber but they are exactly the same 

[Nick Soule]

Do you mean Steve Mancha? 

[Chalky]

Same song and it is Steve Mancha.  

Wasn't there another take form the tapes with Steve and Melvin released via Goldmine.

[Tommypotts]

If we're talking about Steve Mancha on Wheelsville vs The Professionals on Groove City, I was under the impression they are the same song, but different versions.

Steve Mancha:

 

The Professionals:

 

[Robbk]

First of all, we know that Don Davis produced both versions.  He and Steve Mancha were the writers.  Upon listening to both versions many times, I believe that the instrumental track is basically the same (perhaps a slight adjustment added later, on the second release-but not necessarily even that).  One problem is with the voice of the lead singer. 

The basic phrasing and intonations sound very much alike.  But, The Steve Mancha vocal is much smoother, while The Professionals' is more gravelly and gruff.  That could mean that the two are two different singers (e.g. that The Professionals' is Melvin Davis), OR , more likely, that both leads are Steve Mancha, but that his voice was slightly hoarse on The Professionals' take, after having sung many more takes (as in the case of Mary Wells and her final take of "Bye Bye Baby" as compared to her softer, smoother, regular singing voice). 

Another problem is that BOTH Steve Mancha AND Melvin Davis were protegés of Don Davis, and were working for him at the time of these recordings.  And they both had that similar gravelly singing voice (as did Edward Hamilton, Clifford Binns and J.J. Barnes).  Of the latter 3, only Barnes was working with Davis at the time of both recordings, and he had voice delivery mannerisms different enough from Mancha and Davis to rule him out.  So, it comes down to Mancha or Melvin Davis.

I believe that BOTH were Steve Mancha, and that the background singers in The Professionals were a "studio group", composed of a regular group that worked with Davis around that time (possibly The Holidays?).  I'm sure that "The Professionals" were just a studio group (just a group name) to re-release Mancha's song, which had failed to sell the first time, as Mike Hanks didn't give it the push (exposure) it needed nor enough distribution to get enough sales.  I don't remember EVER seeing any adverts (posters/flyers) advertising any appearances of that group, nor seeing any photos of them. 

So, Davis put it out on his own label to see if it could sell as a group.  Or, conversely, Davis had first released it on his own label, as a group record, and it didn't sell because he had no distribution outside Detroit, and later, he leased it with a redone vocal, under Mancha's own name (when he wasn't so hoarse), trying to take advantage of Hanks' label's national distribution.

It is difficult to detect the date of The Professionals' release, because that first Groove City release was NOT contiguous with all the other Groove City releases, just as Don Davis' first Groovesville Records release (777 in early 1964) occurred long before his regular series of Groovesville started as distributed by Ed Wingate's Golden World (when Don started working for him in late 1965, after he left Thelma Records).  Both The Professionals and the Steve Mancha Wheelsville USA releases occurred in 1965, and it's difficult to know which came first, unless we hear it from the horse's mouth.  I'm pretty sure that Don Davis is still alive, as is Melvin Davis.  Not sure about Steve Mancha (Clyde Wilson).  But, surely they've been asked before who sang lead on The Professionals' cuts, and who the group members were, and also which version came first?

 

There should be SOMEONE on this forum who knows the answer to these questions because he has talked to Don Davis, Clyde Wilson or Melvin Davis about these questions.  Let's hope he (or they) comment on this thread.  It's too bad that we didn't ask Melvin these questions when he was posting on Soulful Detroit Forum.  Nowadays, almost ALL of the 1960s Detroit music industry people who used to post there are gone  (deceased or no longer posting there because the threads there are no longer interesting).

[Chalky]

As far as I am aware The Professionals had just the one track and no flip so another take of DMBC by Steve Mancha was used for the flip.

[Robbk]

3 minutes ago, chalky said:

As far as I am aware The Professionals had just the one track and no flip so another take of DMBC by Steve Mancha was used for the flip.

Surely someone must have asked Don, Melvin or Steve who The Professionals were?  Don't we know the answer to that question (and also which of the 2 records was released first)?  I'm sure that The Professionals was released quite a bit before the second Groove City release (e.g. the second series was a "resurrection" of that label, and that The Professionals came out as a 2nd Don Davis label, while Groovesville was still operating).

[Dobber]

3 hours ago, Nick Soule said:

Do you mean Steve Mancha? 

haha yeah i do,what a twit i am!

[Dobber]

my apologies to everyone,i did actually mean steve mancha and NOT melvin davis!

but i do think without doubt that steve mancha is the vocals on the professionals b side

[Guest Aaron Darcy]

Apologies  accepted , Mr Edwards 

[Davenpete]

I thought it was common knowledge that SM was in the Professionals? I like the Mad Lads version:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBld4GrSX3A

[Kev Cane]

Cue Gilly !!

[Ted Massey]

Try Chalky from the Midlands he had Steve Calloway other here he said it wasn't the Proffs on the b side. Chalky will have the full story

 

[Chalky]

The Professionals never recorded "Did My Baby Call", Steve Calloway has confirmed this over the years. He even confirmed it as Steve Mancha when he heard the "Professionals" b side, the other chalky and Blue Max have said as much in previous topics.

Neither was Steve Mancha as far as I am aware in the Professionals.

Chalky (not the West Midlands one either)

The Steve Mancha Story is on Soulful Detroit as well.

[Nick Soule]

This is a picture of the Professionals. Steve Calloway is in the center. Steve Mancha was not in the group. As far as I remember, they were more of a background dance group than a vocal group. They recorded the one song, and were never actually made aware of its release.

[Hitsville Chalky]

The Professionals Members Fred Anderson ..Reggie Swiggle ..Steve Calloway .

Melvin Davis or Steve Mancha was not in the line up of the group ...Did my baby call was not The Professionals and Don Davis used the name ...Steve informed me they done 4 or 5 takes on That's why I love you which original was titled I really love My Baby with the intro talking at the start ..the original dub plate as been discovered by Brad in Detoit although I had a sample from the master tape from Groovesville about 5 yrs ago when Discovering Steve Calloway in Detroit . Sadley Don Davis passed away Robb and Steve Mancha too .

Steve Calloway informed me the B side is another take on Did my baby call by Steve Mancha ..What Robb and Nick stated they was more of a Dance Routine Group ...Steve Calloway informed me he never seen a copy on Groove City and people was telling him The Professionals have a 45 out ..it was yrs later when Steve was in the UK part of The Fabulous Peps line up I took him to Blue Max shop and he was delighted to see the 45 for the first time .

 

 

[Hitsville Chalky]

I have a interview video with Steve Calloway will have to post it up when he talks about the track ...I recall meeting Steve for the first time in Detoit at Berts place and he was introduced to me by Joe pep Harris as he walked over I opened up  ..Girl I really love you ....his reply ...How you know that dam record ...his face was priceless lol 

 

[Guest Johnny One Trout]

10 hours ago, DaveNPete said:

I thought it was common knowledge that SM was in the Professionals? I like the Mad Lads version:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBld4GrSX3A

So do I, but then again they are all great

[Robbk]

1 hour ago, Hitsville Chalky said:

The Professionals Members Fred Anderson ..Reggie Swiggle ..Steve Calloway .

Melvin Davis or Steve Mancha was not in the line up of the group ...Did my baby call was not The Professionals and Don Davis used the name ...Steve informed me they done 4 or 5 takes on That's why I love you which original was titled I really love My Baby with the intro talking at the start ..the original dub plate as been discovered by Brad in Detoit although I had a sample from the master tape from Groovesville about 5 yrs ago when Discovering Steve Calloway in Detroit . Sadley Don Davis passed away Robb and Steve Mancha too .

Steve Calloway informed me the B side is another take on Did my baby call by Steve Mancha ..What Robb and Nick stated they was more of a Dance Routine Group ...Steve Calloway informed me he never seen a copy on Groove City and people was telling him The Professionals have a 45 out ..it was yrs later when Steve was in the UK part of The Fabulous Peps line up I took him to Blue Max shop and he was delighted to see the 45 for the first time .

 

 

Thanks, Chalky!  Good to know all this after so many years.  I'd still like to know exactly when the Professionals' record was released, and also the Steve Mancha on Wheelsville USA.  I assume now, that The Professionals release was after the Wheelsville, and that Don Davis used that Steve Mancha cut, rather than any other Steve Mancha or Melvin Davis cut he had in the can, because it was the best song he had available in a voice that was similar to Calloway's, AND, because he had not been satisfied that the public had had a chance to hear "Did My Baby Call" the first time, as Hanks hadn't pushed it at all.  I know that, because several of the Wheelsville USA sides made the radio in Chicago, but I don't remember that one, and also never saw the record when it was out.  It was shocking to me after finding it many years later, as, to me, it was BY FAR, the best cut that ever came out on that label.

 

 

[Robbk]

Id also like to find out when the remainder of The Groove City releases came out.  I have a feeling that the second series was after a gap in time after the Professionals was released, and that The Professionals was released while Groovesville was still in operation, releasing J.J. Barnes records.

[Hitsville Chalky]

Hi Robb Just phoned Steve he states roughly 1965 ...him and Reggie done the lead vocals on That's why I love on the takes ..I know it's Steve voice on  the original cut  he was jupming up and down  ..that's me ...I really love my baby .. but  they both had similar voices and yes very much like Melvins too but steve just laughed when I suggest Melvin was in the group  ..but he states your spot on regarding the house band as they was more like you and Nick stated a Dance Routine band ..Don loved the Name especially he tells me they couldn't belive there luck when Don asked them over to do something ...I for one still belIves there could be another version of That's why I love you in the vaults recorded by another Artist ..Don wasn't stupid and very clever. 

[Hitsville Chalky]

I can put you in touch with Steve Robb ..his real name is Ryuim  ( don't know this is spelt right )

Maybe wheelsville is 67 mate ? 

[Robbk]

3 hours ago, Hitsville Chalky said:

I can put you in touch with Steve Robb ..his real name is Ryuim  ( don't know this is spelt right )

Maybe wheelsville is 67 mate ? 

Wheelsville started a lot later than D-Town.  I think the blue Freddy Butler was late 1965.  I think the early pink issues were 1966.  So, I'd guess 1966.  But, I can find out by checking the pressing plant codes.  In any case, we now know that The professionals' release in 1965 was one and a half to 2 years before the regular run of Groove City Records, and out before a large portion of the Groovesville releases.

[Robbk]

My Steve Mancha on Wheelsville USA 102 was mastered at Sheldon, and pressed at Midwest Pressing Plant in Chicago, and has the pressing code number MW-518.  The few after it still in the 100s rise up into the 600s.  The Midwest Pressing Plant's code numbers bounce around, as the later Wheelsville USA releases in the 110s have pressing codes in the 200s.  So, it may be difficult to date, as Anorak's Corner does NOT have data on Midwest.

[Robbk]

I THOUGHT Wheelsville 101 and 102 were MUCH earlier than 1967.  Soulful Detroit's webisode on Mike Hanks has Wheelsville USA 10001 (Freddy Butler), and 10002 (Rudy Robinson) as being released in February and March of 1965, and says that 101 and 102 (leased from Don Davis) (Jimmy Gilford and Steve Mancha) being released a couple months later.  Steve Mancha's record charted in July, 1965.  So, Mancha's and The Professionals' releases were only a handful of months apart, at most.  My Groove City records were all pressed in Michigan plants (one being Archer.  They started in mid 1966, so I KNOW that Groove City's 100 series started AT LEAST a year after The Professionals' release.  And, Groove City thus started almost 2 years before Groovesville ended.  I assume that Don Davis "resurrected" Groove City, when his partnership with Lebaron Taylor in Solid Hitbound ended, and Groovesville and Revilot stopped. 

[Hitsville Chalky]

Could be the case Robb .