Carol & Gerri

[Harry Crosby]

One of my nerdy loves is finding out who artists were etc. Recently ive been looking into who these two were, i came across this after a tip from a friend a couple of years ago, i`m understanding this recording is not the band Fifth estate, but they were the writers. Do any of you folks have any ideas who Carol & Gerri were?. Many thanks for any info on this-H 

https://youtu.be/2UMWa08sWkI 

[Andy Rix]

a question often asked ... here is a post from Spectropop in 2004   ....  https://spectropop.com/archive/digest/d1337.htm

This is a VERY HOT record on the Northern soul all-nighter scene right now. Both sides get played, and both are tremendous. I'd bet the record will wind up in the UK, and the buyer WILL be delighted, regardless of whom the artists are.

I've been trying to find out who Carol & Gerri were, so far with no luck. The backing band is the D-Men, who later became the Fifth Estate -- in fact, one of the tracks appears on the Fifth Estate "Ding Dong! The Witch is Back" CD.  The band also wrote both sides. Unfortunately, they don't recall who the singers were. According to the liner notes, "a soulful number titled "How Can I Find The Way" sparked (manager Kevin) Gavin to sign a female trio and produce a Motown-esque master tape, complete with brass and strings. Unfortunately, it was never released." That obviously is wrong, since the song was released as one side of the Carol & Gerri MGM single.

The CD also includes the Wadhams-Askew (D-Men/Fifth Estate) team's demo of "It's Waiting There For You", which was recorded by Reparata & The Delrons.  That led me to believe that "Carol" might be former Delron Carol Dombrowski.  I sent an mp3 of the song to Dombrowski's cousin, who does not recognize her as one of the voices.  So who were Carol & Gerri?   Good question.

Jeff Lemlich
https://www.limestonerecords.com

Andy

[Zanetti]

you Can search for my thread RARE SOUL ONLY FOR COLLECTORS AND CONNISSEURS. There must be some biographical and pictorial info.

somebody said it must ne blue-eyed!

[Harry Crosby]

a question often asked ... here is a post from Spectropop in 2004   ....  https://spectropop.com/archive/digest/d1337.htm

This is a VERY HOT record on the Northern soul all-nighter scene right now. Both sides get played, and both are tremendous. I'd bet the record will wind up in the UK, and the buyer WILL be delighted, regardless of whom the artists are.

I've been trying to find out who Carol & Gerri were, so far with no luck. The backing band is the D-Men, who later became the Fifth Estate -- in fact, one of the tracks appears on the Fifth Estate "Ding Dong! The Witch is Back" CD.  The band also wrote both sides. Unfortunately, they don't recall who the singers were. According to the liner notes, "a soulful number titled "How Can I Find The Way" sparked (manager Kevin) Gavin to sign a female trio and produce a Motown-esque master tape, complete with brass and strings. Unfortunately, it was never released." That obviously is wrong, since the song was released as one side of the Carol & Gerri MGM single.

The CD also includes the Wadhams-Askew (D-Men/Fifth Estate) team's demo of "It's Waiting There For You", which was recorded by Reparata & The Delrons.  That led me to believe that "Carol" might be former Delron Carol Dombrowski.  I sent an mp3 of the song to Dombrowski's cousin, who does not recognize her as one of the voices.  So who were Carol & Gerri?   Good question.

Jeff Lemlich
https://www.limestonerecords.com

Andy

Thanks Andy, top info as always.

[Chalky]

 I too have tried to find out who they were but nothing definitive, pretty much what has been said. 

[Harry Crosby]

you Can search for my thread RARE SOUL ONLY FOR COLLECTORS AND CONNISSEURS. There must be some biographical and pictorial info.

somebody said it must ne blue-eyed!

Cheers mate, i`ll see if i can dig that out.

 I too have tried to find out who they were but nothing definitive, pretty much what has been said. 

The quest continues Chalky.

[Andy Rix]

The thing is I've seen another post somewhere and i'm 99% sure it identified them ... but I just can't find it on the net

Has anybody had time to check out the comments on YouTube ...... might discover there is one of the "that's my mum singing' posts

 

Andy

Edited October 29, 2015 by Andy Rix

[Harry Crosby]

The thing is I've seen another post somewhere and i'm 99% sure it identified them ... but I just can't find it on the net

Andy

Oh dear, things like that keep me awake at night Thanks for your help Andy.

[Peter99]

No nothing about your question Harry but had forgot all about this record - just played it on youtube.

Hope all is well mate.

Peter

[Richard Free]

The lad in the red piped vest is Big Scotty from Stockport apparently.

Dx

[Harry Crosby]

No nothing about your question Harry but had forgot all about this record - just played it on youtube.

Hope all is well mate.

Peter

Yep all ok Pete, thanks, hope you are the same my friend.

[Garethx]

There are a couple of old threads here on S/S which mention the writing/production involvement of the D-Men / Fifth Estate. As other contributors have said the band themselves can't remember the identity of the singers. I think the nearest thing to a recollection on any of the youtube clips is a mention of the vocalists as being 'a couple of girls from the neighbourhood'.

[Hooker1951]

Could Carol n Gerri be possibly Carol King and Gerri Goffin stranger things have happened

Keep on doing it

ML

[Garethx]

^ I think that is literally impossible.

[Bruv]

Any up to date info on who the singers actually are on How Can I Ever Find A Way. 

[Chalky]

34 minutes ago, Bruv said:

Any up to date info on who the singers actually are on How Can I Ever Find A Way. 

no

[Winsford Soul]

1 hour ago, Bruv said:

Any up to date info on who the singers actually are on How Can I Ever Find A Way. 

Bruv. Think you should have asked. How can I ever find a way to find out who they are. 

Steve

[Robbk]

On 10/30/2015 at 03:31, Hooker1951 said:

Could Carol n Gerri be possibly Carol King and Gerri Goffin stranger things have happened

Keep on doing it

ML

If there names were spelt:  "Carole and Gerry", that theory might bear more creedence.  AND, in addition, if the female sounded even remotely like Carole, AND, if the songwriting sounded anything like their writing style, I might think there would be a possibility.  However, None of the non-name elements are promising, and I really doubt that Gerry Goffin would have allowed his name to be written with an "i" ending.  That just wasn't done during Gerry's youth.  It's too Monti Rockish, if you get my drift. 

[Bruv]

19 hours ago, Winsford Soul said:

Bruv. Think you should have asked. How can I ever find a way to find out who they are. 

Steve

Lol Yes, I should have Steve.    

  That's what I like about the site you learn something every day about these great old sounds! 

[Hooker1951]

On 8 April 2017 at 03:24, RobbK said:

If there names were spelt:  "Carole and Gerry", that theory might bear more creedence.  AND, in addition, if the female sounded even remotely like Carole, AND, if the songwriting sounded anything like their writing style, I might think there would be a possibility.  However, None of the non-name elements are promising, and I really doubt that Gerry Goffin would have allowed his name to be written with an "i" ending.  That just wasn't done during Gerry's youth.  It's too Monti Rockish, if you get my drift. 

Hi Robbie

It was meant slightly tongue in cheek but I admire your clinical dissection of my thoughts anyway 

ML

[Robbk]

53 minutes ago, Hooker1951 said:

Hi Robbie

It was meant slightly tongue in cheek but I admire your clinical dissection of my thoughts anyway 

ML

Mine was tongue-in-cheek as well! 

[Geoff]

This was really popular when I started going out to soul nights again in 2002. Think it's a great double sider and always dance to both sides if I hear it played out. Would be interesting to know who the ladies were, but there so many mysteries like this in our music.

[Tony Smith]

23 minutes ago, Geoff said:

This was really popular when I started going out to soul nights again in 2002. Think it's a great double sider and always dance to both sides if I hear it played out. Would be interesting to know who the ladies were, but there so many mysteries like this in our music.

Along with Joy Lovejoy, Vala Regan, perhaps we'll never ever know?

[Jona]

Has anyone found out yet?  It’s been a while and thought I’d revisit this page. Also, is there any scans of the black issue, or were there only demo’s made?

[The Yank]

Here's a pic of the black issue. Out of the 60 or so on popsike, only 6 or 7 are issues - 

[Dave Pinch]

8 minutes ago, Jona said:

Has anyone found out yet?  It’s been a while and thought I’d revisit this page. Also, is there any scans of the black issue, or were there only demo’s made?

i have black issue.. its rarer  but not  dean courtney or velours rare..  dont think were any further forward on this tho

[Sunnysoul]

For what it's worth , another theory on 45cat site:

https://www.45cat.com/record/k13568

jukebox george
7th Sep 2019
 The 1966 Copyright filings are for How Can I Find The Way + On You Heart Ache Looks Good. BMI.com has the Composer names as Wayne Nathan Wadhams, Donald Edward Askew, and Kenny Karen
Ancestry.com does not have a Gavin Bernstein, lending credence to the comments below that the Producer credit is incorrect.
This 45 is not mentioned in the pages of Carole Bayer Sager's memoir available on google books; the memoir has details on Sherry Harway. One comment suggests this duo were neighborhood friends of The Fifth Estate.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

davie gordon
19th Apr 2018
 I think you're right about "Gavin Bernstein" being two people, one of them being Kevin Gavin.
Gavin was the producer for The "D" Men, the original name for The
Fifth Estate. There's also a publishing connection as Waterview Music is credited on all The
"D" Men's records. Bernstein might be Herb Bernstein but I'm not certain, I'd guess there were
quite a few Bernsteins involved in the business.

I'd bet Carol and Gerri is Carole Bayer Sager of Carol And Sherry with a new partner as Sherri Harway quit the business after getting married.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

jukebox george
19th Apr 2018
 Prod. by Gavin Bernstein for Don Costa Prod., Inc. This seems to be the only credit for "Gavin Bernstein" so this might be two different names and the label is missing a hyphen in between. The songwriters are associated with The Fifth Estate and some of their earlier 45s are Produced by Kevin Gavin.

 

[Chalky]

5 hours ago, Sunnysoul said:

For what it's worth , another theory on 45cat site:

https://www.45cat.com/record/k13568

jukebox george
7th Sep 2019
 The 1966 Copyright filings are for How Can I Find The Way + On You Heart Ache Looks Good. BMI.com has the Composer names as Wayne Nathan Wadhams, Donald Edward Askew, and Kenny Karen
Ancestry.com does not have a Gavin Bernstein, lending credence to the comments below that the Producer credit is incorrect.
This 45 is not mentioned in the pages of Carole Bayer Sager's memoir available on google books; the memoir has details on Sherry Harway. One comment suggests this duo were neighborhood friends of The Fifth Estate.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

davie gordon
19th Apr 2018
 I think you're right about "Gavin Bernstein" being two people, one of them being Kevin Gavin.
Gavin was the producer for The "D" Men, the original name for The
Fifth Estate. There's also a publishing connection as Waterview Music is credited on all The
"D" Men's records. Bernstein might be Herb Bernstein but I'm not certain, I'd guess there were
quite a few Bernsteins involved in the business.

I'd bet Carol and Gerri is Carole Bayer Sager of Carol And Sherry with a new partner as Sherri Harway quit the business after getting married.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

jukebox george
19th Apr 2018
 Prod. by Gavin Bernstein for Don Costa Prod., Inc. This seems to be the only credit for "Gavin Bernstein" so this might be two different names and the label is missing a hyphen in between. The songwriters are associated with The Fifth Estate and some of their earlier 45s are Produced by Kevin Gavin.

 

I’ve said elsewhere on here that my belief is it is Carol Bayer Sager with a new partner.  Given the numbering of Carol and Sherry and Carol and Gerri logic would suggest it is. 
 

I did email Carol a few years ago to ask but she didn’t respond, probably a time she doesn’t wish to reflect upon or she didn’t get the mail. I did send it through her site as well. 

[Chalky]

Here is a previous topic where Soul-Slider first suggests who Carol may be, a day later it is mentioned on soulful detroit, coincidence!