What's Going On?

[Quinvy]

I have noticed that things have changed big style since I was promoting. So how do promoters well, promote their events these days?

The events forum on here used to be full of, well if I'm honest, bullshit from promoters and their loyal supporters. This seems to have all but disappeared now.

So how do people find out about events, is it Facebook, Twitter etc? or is it simply heavy flyer bombing of other events?

It's a genuine question and not meant to cause any grief. 

[Mike]

 

I'd say the soul source event guide is busier than a err busy thing nowadays

 

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/calendar/

 

 

Edited October 20, 2015 by mike

[Len]

Hi Phil,

You are correct, the 'pointless posts' that occurred on some events threads have now but disappeared thankfully - These were obviously done to bump a thread (Whenever a comment used to be posted, that particular event thread would 'bump' to the top on the front page) In theory it showed which events were getting the attention, but this was sussed, and the deliberate bumping ruined it - I would say this actually had the adverse effect in some cases.

Ref Face Book - I thought sending invites out that way was a great idea until I joined Face Book and got so many they just became as effective as junk mail (as did my own invites)

I'm not even sure flyers make that much difference nowadays - Same thing, so many about, I stopped picking them up years ago. I do take them home if someone has took the trouble of actually handing me one though (I used to do a lot of that)

I don't promote anymore, but have done a lot until recently, so looking at how things are today, all I would say is the only thing anyone can do is get behind the events they enjoy, and spread the word! This may well include a GENUINE review on an events thread - I think this may 'tip the balance' for some events over just leaving it to a single promoter. A genuinely felt review from a punter is the most effective promotion any event can have - Preferably, someone who doesn't actually know the promoter (So there is no biased)

In answer to your last question - Personally I don't seek out any new events, I am loyal to a few, and go to them when I can (recommending them to others for the reasons given above) The latest one I simply 'stumbled' across was Stubshaw WMC (I'd never heard of it) and this was only because Mick Lyons mentioned it to me during some P.M's we had - I think what made me decide to give it a go was Micks' history (I used to go to his Blackburn All-nighters) So maybe a promoters history also comes into it for some people when choosing where to go.

Once a promoter has managed to get people to their event, obviously they need 'repeat business' to build (I enjoyed Stubshaw btw, so I keep going back)

All the best,

Len 

 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2015 by LEN

[Quinvy]

You've got it Len. I once went to an event that had literally thousands of views and many hundreds of posts, and there was no bigger there. 

I hear that certain events are packed, but I never really see any of them advertised so I just wondered how the hell the promoter gets them there?

[Len]

I'm afraid a lot is down to luck as well nowadays - How an event falls in relation to other events on that same night. That in itself could split a particular crowd in two (at least) ((Is that problem down to stubborn promoters though?))

I really feel for some promoters when they have done everything they can but end up stating something like......"Not a bad night considering how much else was on".......I could have carried on promoting myself knowing that some nights may have been 'down on numbers', but I simply don't have the 'fight' left in me - It actually feels good getting behind events that I care about (if only in a small way) It's got to help if everyone that attends an event acts as a 'team'

....Or am I just being romantic? 

Len 

 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2015 by LEN

[Lfcjunkie]

You've got it Len. I once went to an event that had literally thousands of views and many hundreds of posts, and there was no bigger there. 

I hear that certain events are packed, but I never really see any of them advertised so I just wondered how the hell the promoter gets them there?

phil...some of them invite loads and loads of dj's(wannabes or newbies)each one takes a little posse of 'fans' that dance to their tunes..hey presto busy looking venue built on falsehood..

[Tlscapital]

TUUUUNES ! What about the music ? I mean crate digging, soundZ and stuffs. Not the whoZ; the what ! The passion, not the fashion ! The "thing" that gathered people, not just another social event...

[Len]

TUUUUNES ! What about the music ? I mean crate digging, soundZ and stuffs. Not the whoZ; the what ! The passion, not the fashion ! The "thing" that gathered people, not just another social event...

'What about the music' indeed mate, unfortunately this alone doesn't do it anymore - The ''whoZ', the 'what' and the 'fashion' is what seems to be gathering the crowds generally nowadays (In answer to Phils' second post) 

Len 

Edited October 21, 2015 by LEN

[Markw]

As someone who has been involved with co-promoting a new night this year (Second City Soul), there are so many factors at play in all this that it becomes almost impossible to list them all. Such an effort would be a reasonably significant essay/study in product development, marketing, branding, customer engagement and business serendipity!!

I can hear Lord Sugar's rasping, waspish voice and see his pointing finger in my head right now, having been brought back into the boardroom after losing the 'Setting up a rare soul night' task..........."The failure of this task is entirely down to your poor project management and your failure to know your market - Mark, you're fired."

Seems to me that the only genuinely common feature with all the successful (and I mean successful in terms of being able to attract sufficient numbers to sustain the event, not necessarily 'commercially' successful) is (1) the persistence and willpower to keep going when the temptation is to pack up and go home combined with (2) an ability and willingness to bankroll your early efforts whilst the costs of putting it on outweigh the returns on the door. In essence, no different from any other business venture really. Of course, recent years have seen the rise of a different business model to the traditional Northern Soul model of large hall/ballroom, pay your £5/10 on the door - i.e. the small bar or club venue with free entrance, small or no dancefloor and a wider demographic. This is perhaps a topic for a separate discussion.

In terms of getting people to find out about your night, the media now available is frankly better, easier and more widespread than ever and that part of the equation is actually very easy. It has never been easier to get people to find out about your event (however, getting their attention is a different matter altogether, as Lenny alludes to). You can reach hundreds (maybe thousands?) of people (assuming they are all different people?) quite easily through Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Soul Source and flyers at events. The hard part (and the only one that really matters) is persuading them to travel to your night, part with their money and dance or otherwise engage enthusiastically. The even harder part is persuading them to come back for more again.......and again...........and again - the feature of those sustainable clubs I mentioned earlier. Hyperbole (or 'bullshit', as has been described here) has always and will always be a part of the promotion of an event and why shouldn't it? You have to sell your event somehow (though out-and-out lying is clearly unacceptable).

To give a simple answer to the original question, it is easier than ever to promote your event. It remains as hard as ever to attract people's attention and to persuade them to come.

Thank you for the opportunity Lord Sugar.................

Edited October 21, 2015 by markw

[Quinvy]

Social media is anathema to me, but I have had to get on it in order to promote my business.

However, and please shoot me down if I'm wrong, but you can only "reach" the people who are your "friends" or "followers" can't you?

You can't just stick an add on Facebook and expect thousands of people to see it. I constantly get messages telling me to "promote my business" but when you click on the button you are invited to pay up for the privilege.

[Len]

No shot needed Phil - you are correct about only being able to reach certain people, but on Face Book it pops up 'People you may know' who are connected with friends you already have - So for promotional purposes I had no shame in asking everyone I could to be my 'fwend' - Most people kindly excepted my friends request, and I ended up having loads to send my invites to.

Incidentally, I feel the same as you about social media, soon after giving up promoting I closed my Face Book account - I can see the benefits (keeping in touch with people), but some evenings I would spend two or three hours on there - yes, having a good laugh etc, but I was in my own world when that time should be spent with the people I am physically with (I don't miss it at all)

Markw - Great post mate ......"Hyperbole (or 'bullshit', as has been described here) has always and will always be a part of the promotion of an event and why shouldn't it?"........ I actually used to enjoy all that tongue in cheek 'selling', and again had no shame in doing so - But I believed I had a good product to sell, and was confident that if I could persuade someone to attend once, they would return - I can't get my head round selling something that isn't what someone says it is though - They ain't gonna get repeat business are they?

BTW - HAPPY BACK TO THE FUTURE DAY FOLKS! (My fave film) 

All the best,

Len 

 

 

[Dave Moore]

I guess as society changes so do 'protocols' in all walks of life. Certainly the 'permathrust' style of promoting events is a mix of b'llshyte and bluster but most see through all that I'd wager. I still believe the best Recruiting Sgt is 'word of mouth' and that a decent reputation, a 'fair' and balanced ethos in terms of DJ line ups, venue and pricing is a good foundation.   

Regards,

Dave

 

[Len]

Talking of ‘Hyperbole’ / ‘selling’…..I remember doing my ‘paper round’ at the Kent Records 25^th Anniversary celebrations - I gave Val Challoner one of my flyers, and he explained that he couldn’t make it as he was going to Life-line to support his mate Kitch who was D.Jing that night. I said to him (all dead pan like)…….”Life-line’s been cancelled”……..”Has it?!”…….”Yeh, a terrible business, they’re all coming to Wellingborough now though”………Val then clocked the ‘glint in my eye’…….”Len, do you mind turning round and repeating what you just said to Andy Dyson?”………..”Yup, um, see you at  Life-line mate!”…….I shouted as I made off sharpish! 

That kind of thing was just a laugh of course, but for instance, when people ‘massage’ the numbers in attendance to excess on their reviews, it just puts people off - They go the once, get disappointed, never to return. On top of which, they most probably pass on that negative to others.

The only way to a successful night, is to have that repeat business so the attendance slowly builds and builds. You need a ‘customer base’ of 600 plus (depending on size of venue) because you can’t rely on everyone coming to every single event - This of course takes time (and effort)

In reality though - until more people are happy to just be a ‘face in the crowd’ (instead of promoting) the problem of below average turn outs will continue…..

N.B - My ‘Bullsh*t’ was always factual 

Len 

[barney]

Angie and myself used to make a point of going to different new to us venues ,but soon sussed that what was said on here bore no relation to the reality of the venues we attended in quite a few instances, and the insistence of the thumper mantra on here (if ya cant say owt good say nowt ) as ensured this continues. we have now got to the stage where we are now part of a large and like minded group of friends from different parts of the north and we go to places we know and like and will try new venues according to the credentials of the promoters and who is on the decks ,. basically we have filtered out the tripe and the sh*te and go  to where we know we are going to have a good night ,. Simples

ps the size of the crowd or venue ( like the value of the record ) bear no resemblance to the quality of the night ,.

Edited October 25, 2015 by barney
the ps

[Ncfc]

How would you get me to a soul event?I don't read events section though i do read playlists.

Had planed to go to next 100 club but can't be arsed.

Must be a distance thing though i can't be arsed to go to essence which is only 3 miles away.

[hullsoul]

My personal view as a punter (did promote a night awhile back for 8 years so know a little about trying to get people through the door.). I'm surprised how many flyers there are still around with the rise of social media?To be fair I very rarely look at them unless I'm handed one directly or one of my mates has some info about the said night on the flyer then I'll take it home.

I use SS Events mostly to find the sort of night's I'm looking for but I've noticed over the past couple of years I've missed out on a few night's that are not promoted on here as they use Facebook to advertise there night's(not on Facebook,don't like talking to people I know never mind ones I don't ).The missed night's are usually run by some of the young lads who use social media in a far different way to old gits like me.

So with there been loads of night's out there that I have absolutely no interest in because I still view a soul night/nighter as special event & not just a jolly with a few pints thrown in as the main attraction,this means I find out about night's mostly the old school way.........word of mouth.So a mate tells you about a night they've been to & providing you know the person & know they are looking for the same sorts of night's you are then I'll invest a bit of time try to find any info about the night in question.........who dj's there,sort of music policy etc.If all that pans out it goes it on the "to do" list & I'll give it a try at the first opportunity.On the whole works for me,not had too many disasters??

So no matter how much media bombardment I get from promoters in whatever format it isn't going to get to me to your night unless you have something I want...........unfortunately that seems an ever decreasing pool to pick from these days 

Cheers

Martyn

[hullsoul]

 You need a ‘customer base’ of 600 plus (depending on size of venue)

Len 

 

Bloody hell Len can't think the last time I was at a night with 600 in or even a large percentage of that?

Do's I go to 60 is a good night..........maybe says more about me then the venues I frequent

Cheers

Martyn

[Quinvy]

There's definitely some politics involved as well. I've been to places that were always rammed, yet to me offered very little.

 There seems to be a bit of "everyone is going there, so we'll go with our mates". It's a social do for many people I think.

The things that matter to me don't seem to matter to most people, that's why I was interested in others thoughts.

The things that make a great nighter for me are:

1. Well set up sound system. (It doesn't matter how good the music if you can't hear it)

2. Dj's with taste.

3. Atmospheric venue.

4. Decent size dance floor.

Simple as that.

 

[Len]

Bloody hell Len can't think the last time I was at a night with 600 in or even a large percentage of that?

Do's I go to 60 is a good night..........maybe says more about me then the venues I frequent

Cheers

Martyn

Customer base mate - Meaning the total people that have been through the doors over a period of time. What I mean is, you can't rely on your whole customer base attending every single event. So from those 600 people, if on average each person came to every 4 events, that would give you a steady number of 150 people each time.

Didn't someone famously once say that Wigan had 100,000 members? I'd say a few may have had to replace their lost memberships once or twice to get to that number though! 

All the best,

Len 

[Len]

Play lists don't actually do it for me - As in influence my decision to go somewhere (I rarely read them)

Who's D.Jing used to, but nowadays I put my trust in certain promoters, having the confidence that they are capable of choosing D.Js that I would like. In fact I wouldn't mind if the D.Js names weren't even advertised (Although I understand this does still make a big difference to others) Shame really, as this may give other capable (yet relatively unknown) D.Js more of a shot.

Len 

[Chalky]

There's definitely some politics involved as well. I've been to places that were always rammed, yet to me offered very little.

 There seems to be a bit of "everyone is going there, so we'll go with our mates". It's a social do for many people I think.

The things that matter to me don't seem to matter to most people, that's why I was interested in others thoughts.

The things that make a great nighter for me are:

1. Well set up sound system. (It doesn't matter how good the music if you can't hear it)

2. Dj's with taste.

3. Atmospheric venue.

4. Decent size dance floor.

Simple as that.

 

It is social now with the music secondary, even for those who don't want he classics or top 150/250 or 500 or whatever the tag is today.

Flyers serve little purpose really but hey are necessary, some people do still pick them up, stick them on their fridge as a reminder etc etc.  I just wish venues would ban the distribution of them in venues and have a table on the door for them, all they seem to do is soak beer up!

Social media is the biggest tool for promotion.  The events guide on here alone had over 1600 views for Lifeline, that is a lot of flyer distribution!  Member interaction though seems to be non existent at times whereas on Facebook we have a group for Lifeline with 100's of members who we can direct info and get feedback far quicker than anywhere else.  Comments are greater too. I/we don't spout no bullshit about how many were in, members who were there know exactly how many were there, we try to refrain from hype but you have to do some shouting about what you promote. You have to use whatever is at your disposal but Soul Source and Facebook are the two biggest methods of getting your event out there.  Of course all the elements you list are important too but even with all those the music does seem to me at times to be secondary.

However, word of mouth is the best advertisement for any event, it is all I used to use when I started and still take more note of word of mouth than any hype etc from a promoter.  

Flyers used to be for one thing only back in the day, writing info on the back but now flyers are two sided and glossy so you can't even do that now

[Len]

We have a pool of D.Js that have become ‘household names’, and there is a reason for this - It’s because they are good at what they do.

But there is a pressure on promotors to only use these names to get people through the door. This makes sense (to a point) I genuinely have a lot of respect for some of these ‘household names’. The ones I looked up to in my younger years have mostly turned out to be nice guys, and the thing these particular guys all have in common is that I know they are interested in what other D.Js play (No matter who they may be)

A silly little thing this - I D.Jed for Cliff Steel at ‘SILKS’, and I was on after Kitch. I wanted to play ‘Larry (Chubby) Reynolds - Sweet Tooth’ which was influenced by Kitch himself playing it, so I asked if he minded me playing it, he turned and said….”You play exactly what you want to mate”…….I know that don’t look much ‘in the written word’ (It was probably the way he said it), but it made me feel comfortable D.Jing alongside these professionals (Kitch not giving it a second thought of course) 

My point - I have Boomerang at Thorne pencilled in my diary for 21^st November - I haven’t a clue who is D.Jing, except for Aurthur Fenn (Unless Maria has sacked him) I am going with the confidence that whoever is booked I will approve of. So if I got a flyer just saying ‘Next Boomerang - 21st November’, that would be all the info I require.

I remember an advert in Black Echoes years ago….’Next Blackburn - 3^rd November’, and that was it. The promoter obviously had the confidence that his punters trusted him.

I don't envy anyone trying to promote - It's always been a thankless task, but very much more so nowadays.

All the best,

Len 

Edited October 26, 2015 by LEN
Date change

[Quinvy]

We have a pool of D.Js that have become ‘household names’, and there is a reason for this - It’s because they are good at what they do.

 

But there is a pressure on promotors to only use these names to get people through the door. This makes sense (to a point) I genuinely have a lot of respect for some of these ‘household names’. The ones I looked up to in my younger years have mostly turned out to be nice guys, and the thing these particular guys all have in common is that I know they are interested in what other D.Js play (No matter who they may be) 

 

 

Trouble with this is you look at "What's On" and it's the same old names at all the venues. There's a bit of an "old boys" network going on, and "how dare you run a rare night without asking us" syndrome. And there are a lot of sheep who won't go somewhere if certain individuals tell them not to. Like I said in my earlier post, it's a big social clique and if your face doesn't fit and you don't blow smoke up the right arses, you are waisting your time.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Quinvy

[Len]

Trouble with this is you look at "What's On" and it's the same old names at all the venues.

Apart from the 'selling' pressure, this can also be down to lack of imagination from a promoter - I've never seen the point of putting on an event that is exactly the same as another one.

Len 

[Twoshoes]

Purely as a punter no one method of promoting on its own would get me to a venue, flyers are good I guess from a promoters point of view for at least you know you are reaching people who actually get out and attend nights though by the amount of flyers I see left on tables not many seem to be taken home, word of mouth by someone you know and trust and who knows your taste in what kind of night you like to attend is the best as you can get the full picture of venue, quality of dancefloor,  music policy  even down to bar prices though that would not be my number one consideration. I think a little more thought by promoters starting up new nights when they know the catchment area , the numbers attending  the nights already on should deter them from putting on something on the same night but it doesn't seem to.

   The events page on here is great for getting an overall picture of what is going on both locally and further afield though due to circumstances I rarely travel more than a 15 mile radius from where I live but still manage to find enough variety to fill my needs, the much maligned across the board policy works for me as long as it is truly across the board without an over emphasis on the top 500 kinda stuff. First hour is often where I find the most enjoyment and quite often its the lesser known Dj's that entertain me the most,

    Sad to say I have been disappointed many times by lazy big name Dj's who must have incredible tunes at their disposal playing the same old stuff time after time........sadly  you can't argue with a full dancefloor

   

[Chalky]

 

Apart from the 'selling' pressure, this can also be down to lack of imagination from a promoter - I've never seen the point of putting on an event that is exactly the same as another one.

Len 

maybe you don't Len but the vast majority don't seem too bothered about it. 

[Len]

maybe you don't Len but the vast majority don't seem too bothered about it. 

I mean instead of putting on an event similar to another one not too far away, you may as well just go and enjoy other people's efforts - You'd get larger attendances at places then.

All the best,

Len