Bootleg Guide

[Guest]

I'm new to buying vinyl, i cant afford to pay big money on originals so i intend to buy reissues, if i can afford to buy an original i will but what i was wondering was, is it worth buying Manships Guide To Bootleg.

Many thanks

Con

[Guest]

I'm new to buying vinyl, i cant afford to pay big money on originals so i intend to buy reissues, if i can afford to buy an original i will but what i was wondering was, is it worth buying Manships Guide To Bootleg.

Many thanks

Con

Why?,they wont change from reissue`s/boots to real ones,cause you gotta guide

[Nick Hackett]

Why buy the boots/reissues in the 1st place,dont waste your £,you may aswell get cd's and save your £ for the original you really want.

[Guest]

Why buy the boots/reissues in the 1st place,dont waste your £,you may aswell get cd's and save your £ for the original you really want.

As well as that,you can allways ask fellow Sourcer`s,they know everything

[Rupert]

I'm new to buying vinyl, i cant afford to pay big money on originals so i intend to buy reissues, if i can afford to buy an original i will but what i was wondering was, is it worth buying Manships Guide To Bootleg.

Many thanks

Con

if ya gonna buy boots/re-issues then yes buy the boot guide its well worth it.

rupert

[Guest]

The bootleg guide is now over 8 years old, poorly presented and seriously needs updating. In the new year we will be bringing out a long over-due book call COLLECTING NORTHERN SOUL which has taken 8 years research, having collected scans and matrix data from 1000's of bootlegs and counterfeitsand originals. It will contain all the info required to give you the tool to buy with confidence.

It's a minefield out there if your don't know what your doing or you're buying on trust alone.

Every day someone pays good money for a fake, bootleg or counterfeit Northern Soul 45 described as an original; we have a phone call or e-mail every day asking for authentication.

Almost every collection i've ever bought or browsed through have bootlegs in them bought in good faith as originals. If seasoned collectors like Carl willingham, Chris Gwatkin, Mick Heffernan etc can get caught out..i'd suggest that the bootleg guide, no matter how old is essential until the new book is available in the new year. Just the Delta # information is worth the purchase price..as more than £12 could easily be lost in just one wrong purchase.

[Guest Baz]

Heres a handy tip dont buy records that have been booted 99% of the time they are booted/re-issued because they are so popular, break away from that trend, i've never owned a 'boot' guide never will, and i've never bought a record thinking it was a original, common sense is your best tool, if you think its dodgy stay away

[Sunnysoul]

The bootleg guide is now over 8 years old, poorly presented and seriously needs updating. In the new year we will be bringing out a long over-due book call COLLECTING NORTHERN SOUL which has taken 8 years research, having collected scans and matrix data from 1000's of bootlegs and counterfeitsand originals. It will contain all the info required to give you the tool to buy with confidence.

It's a minefield out there if your don't know what your doing or you're buying on trust alone.

Every day someone pays good money for a fake, bootleg or counterfeit Northern Soul 45 described as an original; we have a phone call or e-mail every day asking for authentication.

Almost every collection i've ever bought or browsed through have bootlegs in them bought in good faith as originals. If seasoned collectors like Carl willingham, Chris Gwatkin, Mick Heffernan etc can get caught out..i'd suggest that the bootleg guide, no matter how old is essential until the new book is available in the new year. Just the Delta # information is worth the purchase price..as more than £12 could easily be lost in just one wrong purchase.

John, can you let us know whether you don't mind us - the public, that is - contacting you for authentication or you'd rather not encourage it for the sheer volume of enquiries that you are likely to get. I have a couple of things myself that I'd like to run by you ???

Or perhaps you could post on this site your comments to enquiries made by soul source members from time to time, especially for pieces that are relatively widely known to rare soul collectors.

I'd love for you to clear up the situation regarding Bill Brandon's "Streets Got My Lady" , the past threads on this site, IMHO, haven't definitively cleared up the bootleg situation on that record ???

[Pete S]

If you're going to start collecting, why not just buy the record for what's in the groove and don't worry about whether it's a bootleg, pressing, reissue whatever. The people who frown upon bootlegs are people on here who don't like them being played by dj's on the same bill as guys who play originals or are goody goodys who've never bought a pressing in their life and think you should do the same. Don't let them bully you into not buying anything. You can build up a collection of great records by buying records on official labels Grapevine, Sevens, Kent, then when you've got all those, track down classics on pressings and save yourself thousands of pounds.

John Manship's bootleg guide is absolutely essential, more so than the price guides in my opinion, anyone beginning a collection shouldn't begin without having a copy of this handy.

[AlanB]

Manship's guide is excellent for identifying bootlegs/ reissues from the old days, but there have been so many in recent years I'd ask on this forum too before spending much.

Alan

[Guest]

John, can you let us know whether you don't mind us - the public, that is - contacting you for authentication or you'd rather not encourage it for the sheer volume of enquiries that you are likely to get. I have a couple of things myself that I'd like to run by you ???

Or perhaps you could post on this site your comments to enquiries made by soul source members from time to time, especially for pieces that are relatively widely known to rare soul collectors.

I'd love for you to clear up the situation regarding Bill Brandon's "Streets Got My Lady" , the past threads on this site, IMHO, haven't definitively cleared up the bootleg situation on that record ???

Oh course i'm always willing to help, but it's just time really. I often have days where I don't take phone calls, just so's I can get some work done. Like today..

I don't think there is nothing more likely to put future collectors off collecting Northern Soul is if you buy a "boot" thinking it's an original..BUT every original has ways of identifying it..so that why in the new year we are putting all the info we have acquired in the last 8 years to update the bootleg guide into a reference book with full colour scans..

But if your really stuck by all means give me a call, SATURDAY AM i'm always at my desk and i'm the only person in work, so i'll be answering the phone..

Yes, the Bill Brandon - Piedmont hasbeen bootlegged by ballad collectors in the USA for the "TAG TAG" side. The repress the deadwax matrix reads...AR 43710-B KR+8

original copy the deawax reads P-078-A-STEREO (held @ 6 o'clock) (@ 3 o'clock) MASTERFONICS is scratch in.flipside matrix reads P-078-B (held @ 6 o'clock) (@ 3:30 'clock) MASTERFONICS is scratch in.

Also look out for repros from the same collecting scene of:

Johnny Dunn - Veep 1237, Roddie Joy - Red Bird 1031, Holly maxwell - Constellation 162 + many more

[Pete S]

Well I'm stuck now, and it's a record I've had problems with before

I won a Janie Grant demo last night, then someone pm's me to say that it doesn't have a bell sound stamp, so I emailed the seller and they told me - and I honestly have no reason to doubt them as I've bought from them before - that it came from a radio station dj's collection and had been in storage for at least 2 decades. I've never seen them sell a boot or pressing of any description.

Also, I received one in a collection I was selling for someone last year and again, no stamp, I told him there was no way I could sell this for £50, and he said "well I bought it off you as an original 5 years ago", and he had - I'd bought it from the States in the early days of the net. Thinking it was a boot, I sold it for a tenner.

So I'm getting a bit worried about this. What do you think John? Or anyone?

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...N%3AIT&rd=1

[Guest]

Well I'm stuck now, and it's a record I've had problems with before

I won a Janie Grant demo last night, then someone pm's me to say that it doesn't have a bell sound stamp, so I emailed the seller and they told me - and I honestly have no reason to doubt them as I've bought from them before - that it came from a radio station dj's collection and had been in storage for at least 2 decades. I've never seen them sell a boot or pressing of any description.

Also, I received one in a collection I was selling for someone last year and again, no stamp, I told him there was no way I could sell this for £50, and he said "well I bought it off you as an original 5 years ago", and he had - I'd bought it from the States in the early days of the net. Thinking it was a boot, I sold it for a tenner.

So I'm getting a bit worried about this. What do you think John? Or anyone?

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...N%3AIT&rd=1

Pete,

The BELL SOUND stamp on this 45 is almost unreadable, and in some cases almost undetectable. It'll mosdt likely resemble a faint stamp indented into the deadwax with only the bottom half of the stamper in view.. If you know what i mean..certainly can't read BELL and SOUND, hope that helps John

[Quinvy]

If you're going to start collecting, why not just buy the record for what's in the groove and don't worry about whether it's a bootleg, pressing, reissue whatever. The people who frown upon bootlegs are people on here who don't like them being played by dj's on the same bill as guys who play originals or are goody goodys who've never bought a pressing in their life and think you should do the same. Don't let them bully you into not buying anything. You can build up a collection of great records by buying records on official labels Grapevine, Sevens, Kent, then when you've got all those, track down classics on pressings and save yourself thousands of pounds.

John Manship's bootleg guide is absolutely essential, more so than the price guides in my opinion, anyone beginning a collection shouldn't begin without having a copy of this handy.

Have to agree with Pete here, the bootleg guide is essential. And I'll be the first in the que for the new one.

Phil.

[Pete S]

Pete,

The BELL SOUND stamp on this 45 is almost unreadable, and in some cases almost undetectable. It'll mosdt likely resemble a faint stamp indented into the deadwax with only the bottom half of the stamper in view.. If you know what i mean..certainly can't read BELL and SOUND, hope that helps John

Thanks John. Okay, whoever had that original off me for a tenner, I need to have a word with you :angry:

[davidwapples]

the other thing to remember is the website of vinyl carvers

do not pay over 10 pounds for an obvious bootleg as you can get your own 45 made from them

most tunes that were bootlegged are available on cds in great quality so the 45 you get made will sound better than some dodgy bootleg made from a copy of the 45 in the 70s

theres no point in paying over the odds for a poor sounding copy as you can get a mint sounding one made cheaply , if its not the original it is still a copy doesnt matter when it was made 70s ,80s , yesterday etc

if you are just collecting for yourself then its fine to get these done but please nobody turn this into a bootleg v original playing thread

[Guest Paul]

Yes, the Bill Brandon - Piedmont hasbeen bootlegged by ballad collectors in the USA for the "TAG TAG" side. The repress the deadwax matrix reads...AR 43710-B KR+8

original copy the deawax reads P-078-A-STEREO (held @ 6 o'clock) (@ 3 o'clock) MASTERFONICS is scratch in.flipside matrix reads P-078-B (held @ 6 o'clock) (@ 3:30 'clock) MASTERFONICS is scratch in.

Interesting coincidence... I have the original 15 i.p.s. master tape here which was recorded by Milan Bogdan at the Sound Pit in Atlanta on October 13th 1975 and sent to Glen Meadows at Masterfonics Inc. in Nashville for lacquer cutting on June 16th 1976. The tape also features an unissued version of "Tag Tag" without guitar and piano. It recently turned up after thirty years, as did some other interesting tapes.

Paul Mooney

www.millbrand.com

[45cellar]

Pete,

The BELL SOUND stamp on this 45 is almost unreadable, and in some cases almost undetectable. It'll mosdt likely resemble a faint stamp indented into the deadwax with only the bottom half of the stamper in view.. If you know what i mean..certainly can't read BELL and SOUND, hope that helps John

Hi John

I bought both of these from Soul Bowl in the 70's

Parkway P-982 ............................................. Parkway P-983

The Janie Grant "Bell Sound" Matrix Stamp is Difficult to Detect.

They appear to have sorted the problem out for the next number, which happens to be Christine Cooper..

This has "Bell Sound" firmly stamped on Both sides.

However ..... I noticed that there is also another very faint Matrix, a little to the left of the bold "Bell Sound"

possibly another "Bell Sound" very poorly stamped and very similar to the Janie Grant Matrix

It almost looks like they had to replace a faulty Matrix stamp between these two issues.at the Pressing Plant.

Like you say, it is a Minefield - Bootleg guide is a must have.

Edited September 19, 2006 by 45cellar

[Dave Fleming]

John, can you let us know whether you don't mind us - the public, that is - contacting you for authentication or you'd rather not encourage it for the sheer volume of enquiries that you are likely to get. I have a couple of things myself that I'd like to run by you ???

Or perhaps you could post on this site your comments to enquiries made by soul source members from time to time, especially for pieces that are relatively widely known to rare soul collectors.

I'd love for you to clear up the situation regarding Bill Brandon's "Streets Got My Lady" , the past threads on this site, IMHO, haven't definitively cleared up the bootleg situation on that record ???

Put up a scan of your "Bill Brandon" and i will tell you if it`s a Boot or Original.

Dave f..................

[Sunnysoul]

Put up a scan of your "Bill Brandon" and i will tell you if it`s a Boot or Original.

Dave f..................

Thanks Dave, but unfortunately I don't have a scanning facility ... my copy however is a white demo with both sides being Streets Got My Lady , so according to John's comments, I take it that the white demos are legit and that the only boots are of the ISSUE with the two different sides ... do you agree ?

[Larsc]

Yes, the Bill Brandon - Piedmont hasbeen bootlegged by ballad collectors in the USA for the "TAG TAG" side. The repress the deadwax matrix reads...AR 43710-B KR+8

Also look out for repros from the same collecting scene of:

Johnny Dunn - Veep 1237, Roddie Joy - Red Bird 1031, Holly maxwell - Constellation 162 + many more

These are the ones that confuse me the most. I don't collect most of the northern big tunes so I'm usually not too worried about boots, but these US scenes have made represses of so many ballads and doo-wop sides that it still gets confusing. Are these represses covered in the new bootleg guide ?