Satintones

[Kjw]

Could some confirm if this is the rarer press. It has a Bell Sound stamp in the run out.

Thanks

[Dazz]

The rarer one has H625 in the dead wax and has strings in the production, not so rare one has H55596 in the dead wax

and no strings in the production

Hope that helps

[Kjw]

The rarer one has H625 in the dead wax and has strings in the production, not so rare one has H55596 in the dead wax

and no strings in the production

Hope that helps

Hi Dazz

This copy has H625 in the run out which is crossed out then H55596 scratched in - I thought it was to do with the Bell Sound stamp as to which is the rarer copy or do both have the Bell Sound stamp

Can't tell if it has strings or not - I'm useless at picking things those things up - had the same trouble trying to tell which copy of Dee Edwards on De-To I had

[Dazz]

I've only got the H55596 one mate so I don't know about the other one but mine is Bellsound stamped

seem to remember that the other one has another b'side 'Angel' or is that the 'really' rare one?

[Kjw]

I've only got the H55596 one mate so I don't know about the other one but mine is Bellsound stamped

seem to remember that the other one has another b'side 'Angel' or is that the 'really' rare one?

That's right - 'Angel' is the rare one. The other two have the same two sides.

[Modernsoulsucks]

Mine is H625 with Bell Sound, ARP,and Audio[music or matrix or ?- hard to tell].

Looking at YT [Motownmaster] I have version 2 with strings.

V1 has a kinda bluesy riff at start and it's 2 guys singing. A bit Everley Brothers IMO.

No idea which is the rarest.

ROD

[Kjw]

Mine is H625 with Bell Sound, ARP,and Audio[music or matrix or ?- hard to tell].

Looking at YT [Motownmaster] I have version 2 with strings.

V1 has a kinda bluesy riff at start and it's 2 guys singing. A bit Everley Brothers IMO.

No idea which is the rarest.

ROD

Thanks Rod

The full run out markings on the 'Tomorrow & Always' side on mine are as follows -

7 0'clock - 37804 with a triangle in front of the number

8 o'clock - Bell Sound stamp and MR stamp circled

10 o'clock - 45 H625 (scratched out)

12 0'clock - H55596

[Modernsoulsucks]

You're talking to wrong person really regarding Motown early rarities.

Hopefully Bob K will see the topic.

Doesn't MR suggest West Coast press.

ARP on mine suggests Detroit I think.

ROD

[Kjw]

You're talking to wrong person really regarding Motown early rarities.

Hopefully Bob K will see the topic.

Doesn't MR suggest West Coast press.

ARP on mine suggests Detroit I think.

ROD

Yes, I think the MR is Monarch Recording - West Coast like you say

I'm lost myself on Motown so hopefully someone like Robb will come along and confirm

[Dazz]

Hi K

Had a bit of a light bulb moment and thought why don't I consult Reginald J. Bartlette's excellent 'Motown by master number' book, here is what Reg has to say,

from the 55500 Series

H55596   Tommorrow and always  Satintones   Motown 1006A  dated 24/4/1961  entry #  S0049  delta 39804

from the H Series 

H625       Tommorrow and always  Satintones   Motown 1006A  dated 24/4/1961  entry #  S0056 

same date, different entry number and delta stated is correct to the book

Looks like you've got the 1st issue I think

Dazz

[Robbk]

The issue of  Motown 1006 that has "Angel" instead of "Tomorrow and Always", and "A Love That Can Never Be" on the flip, is by FAR the rarest.  There are only a few copies known.  It was the latest issue of the record, , made as a late change, to satisfy a lawsuit that was initiated by Nevins-Kirshner and Carole King and Jerry Goffin of Aldon Music, as that "sequel" to "Will You Love Me Tomorrow" did not give Aldon Music half their publishing rights.  The small batch pressed up was probably a token, to show compliance with the out-of-court agreement.  That pressing was made in Detroit (probably just 100 pressed (or maybe 50?  Just to show a sample.  I think it was made in June or July 1961.  As far as I remember, both the April '61 Monarch and ARP (American Sound Studio in Detroit) pressings had strings.  I think somene here got this Satintones' record mixed up with Motown 1000, "My Beloved", which had an earlier non-strings version, and a later, with strings version.

[Robbk]

I have all 3 releases, but, alas, my eyes are failing me, and I cannot read what's scratched and stamped on the runouts.   On all 3 "A Love That Can Never Be" always has  H-GO scratched in, with Bell Sound stamped on.  H625 has ARP scratched on, and Audio Matrix stamped on. H55596 has H625 scratched on, Bell Sound and Audio Matrix stamped on. The West Coast pressing has  what KJW listed, Delta 37804, H55596, H625 and MR stamped, and Bell Sound stamped.  The pressing with "Angel" has about 5 known.  I've seen hundreds of the ARP pressing, and only scores of the West Coast pressing.  "Angel" is super rare.  The West Coast pressing is a li9ttle more "relatively scarce" than is the ARP pressing.  But neither of the non- "Angel" pressings is "rare".

[Kjw]

I have all 3 releases, but, alas, my eyes are failing me, and I cannot read what's scratched and stamped on the runouts.   On all 3 "A Love That Can Never Be" always has  H-GO scratched in, with Bell Sound stamped on.  H625 has ARP scratched on, and Audio Matrix stamped on. H55596 has H625 scratched on, Bell Sound and Audio Matrix stamped on. The West Coast pressing has  what KJW listed, Delta 37804, H55596, H625 and MR stamped, and Bell Sound stamped.  The pressing with "Angel" has about 5 known.  I've seen hundreds of the ARP pressing, and only scores of the West Coast pressing.  "Angel" is super rare.  The West Coast pressing is a li9ttle more "relatively scarce" than is the ARP pressing.  But neither of the non- "Angel" pressings is "rare".

Thanks for all the info Robb - can you tell me - is the West Coast press the version 'with strings' or without

[Robbk]

Thanks for all the info Robb - can you tell me - is the West Coast press the version 'with strings' or without

It has strings.

[Kjw]

It has strings.

Thanks Robb

 

[Jim G]

On ebay right now for $600

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Motown-Group-Harmony-45-Satintones-Angel-promo-/221843571833?hash=item33a6e84479

[Modernsoulsucks]

I have all 3 releases, but, alas, my eyes are failing me, and I cannot read what's scratched and stamped on the runouts.   On all 3 "A Love That Can Never Be" always has  H-GO scratched in, with Bell Sound stamped on.  H625 has ARP scratched on, and Audio Matrix stamped on. H55596 has H625 scratched on, Bell Sound and Audio Matrix stamped on. The West Coast pressing has  what KJW listed, Delta 37804, H55596, H625 and MR stamped, and Bell Sound stamped.  The pressing with "Angel" has about 5 known.  I've seen hundreds of the ARP pressing, and only scores of the West Coast pressing.  "Angel" is super rare.  The West Coast pressing is a li9ttle more "relatively scarce" than is the ARP pressing.  But neither of the non- "Angel" pressings is "rare".

Thought you'd know.

I would say though that H625 ARP is etched/stamped rather than scratched.

You can feel it raised.

ROD

[Robbk]

Yes, I should have written etched or engraved, rather than scratched.  Semantics.

[Modernsoulsucks]

Au contraire mon ami !

Scratched v. etched/stamped is important difference with such as local Detroit 45s when describing originals.

Just mentioned it to be absolutely accurate and avoid any confusion.

I am in no way running round the house pumping my fist shouting "got him !"

ROD

[Guest keithhughes]

Hi Robb

On the dating of "Angel": I have a Bell Sound acetate of the standard commercial version, with the title "To Me, You're An Angel" and the date "2-6-61" typed on the label. (See extremely small picture on left.) I seem to recall paying around £150 for it on Ebay about five years back. I'd probably have paid more. It's the only piece of vinyl I own that hangs in a frame on the wall!

N.B. there is an alternate, faster version of the song which appeared on the Ace CD by the group - still a few copies available, folks!

On "Tomorrow & Always": I spoke to three of the surviving 'Tones when researching for the booklet essay for the CD, and they didn't recall the two-vocals, no-strings version at all, didn't remember recording it or its appearance on vinyl. A total blank.

I wish I had a copy of M1006 with this track! I see the one on Ebay is a promo: are any commercial (pink label) copies known to exist?

Keith

Edited September 11, 2015 by keithhughes

[Robbk]

I never heard of the two-vocals, no strings alternate take of "Tomorrow and Always" having a commercial pressing, or even a promo pressed onto plastic.

[Guest keithhughes]

Sorry Robb, I meant to ask whether you'd ever seen a copy of a commercial pressing of "Angel" on M1006. I agree that the two-vocals no strings version of "Tomorrow & Always" doesn't seem to have been pressed up commercially.

[Robbk]

 

Sorry Robb, I meant to ask whether you'd ever seen a copy of a commercial pressing of "Angel" on M1006. I agree that the two-vocals no strings version of "Tomorrow & Always" doesn't seem to have been pressed up commercially.

Yes, I've seen 3 commercial pressings of "Angel" in people's collections, back in the '60s and '70s. 

[Guest turntableterra]

I have all 3 releases, but, alas, my eyes are failing me, and I cannot read what's scratched and stamped on the runouts.   On all 3 "A Love That Can Never Be" always has  H-GO scratched in, with Bell Sound stamped on.  H625 has ARP scratched on, and Audio Matrix stamped on. H55596 has H625 scratched on, Bell Sound and Audio Matrix stamped on. The West Coast pressing has  what KJW listed, Delta 37804, H55596, H625 and MR stamped, and Bell Sound stamped.  The pressing with "Angel" has about 5 known.  I've seen hundreds of the ARP pressing, and only scores of the West Coast pressing.  "Angel" is super rare.  The West Coast pressing is a li9ttle more "relatively scarce" than is the ARP pressing.  But neither of the non- "Angel" pressings is "rare".

ANGEL  issue and demo and acetate. also love can never be. yes rare, but both...... doggo. angel has bellsound, audio matrix and arp stamped in the runout with h641 scratched on the master

[Ian Seaman]

i have the pair too, one has audio mix with a 1 stamped above it but the other one doesn't, easiest way is one is midtempo single vocal other is uptempo dual vocal , simple eh lol