Alexander Patten: real or boot?

[dean jj]

The latest example in my quest to delve into the strange world of seventies boots. I'm sure the info. is useful to others as well, and may stop [hopefully] some fraudulent sales.

Again many thanks to all who contribute to my quest for truth!

dean

[Chris L]

The latest example in my quest to delve into the strange world of seventies boots. I'm sure the info. is useful to others as well, and may stop [hopefully] some fraudulent sales.

Again many thanks to all who contribute to my quest for truth!

dean

There have been many threads on this, trawl back through this section. Easiest way to see is via the label. Original has text all on one line, the boot text on 2 lines.  

[Soul-slider]

ORIGINAL...(title on 1 line)

Boot... (notice title on 2 lines)

 

CANADIAN ORIGINAL...(title on 2 lines but differs from boot)

 

Edited September 2, 2015 by Soul-Slider

[dean jj]

Thanks very much gents.

[Chris L]

Here's the thread on the Canadian issue, if you look closely you'll see the word 'Canada" on the Canadian issue.

[Soul-slider]

Tell you what though, I bet you'd get a few bob for that boot nowadays? I've had it in my collection since the early 80's and it's good quality sound.

[Chris L]

Tell you what though, I bet you'd get a few bob for that boot nowadays? I've had it in my collection since the early 80's and it's good quality sound.

I sold one on Ebay for £62.00, they usually go for about £30 - 40. They really are tough to tell from the originals, the labels are genuine.

 

[Liamgp]

Produced from a batch of Capitol blanks so generally indistinguishable from real copies had the bootlegger not admitted that he had done them - or so I'm led to believe.

[Chris L]

Produced from a batch of Capitol blanks so generally indistinguishable from real copies had the bootlegger not admitted that he had done them - or so I'm led to believe.

It was Simon Soussan who bluffed his way into Capitol records and waltzed out with a box of blank labels.

[Liamgp]

It was Simon Soussan who bluffed his way into Capitol records and waltzed out with a box of blank labels.

Why am I not surprised at that.

Edited September 2, 2015 by LiamGP

[Chris L]

What to look for on the Canadian issue.

[Stretfordender]

Manship bootleg book

[Godzilla]

What to look for on the Canadian issue.

Those with eyes not quite as keen as Chris's will notice that bloody great print used on the title, although spread over two lines on both Canadian and boots, splits them differently:

Boot says
A Lil

Lovin' Sometimes

 

Canadian says:

A Lil Lovin'

Sometimes

...and that's with my crappy eyes...

[Guest]

Two different USA capitol originals.

 One original has the title on one line, with Daisy stamp in run out groove.  (west coast)

Second original has title on two lines, but has a Triangle AIM stamp in the run out groove. (east coast)

The look-like bootleg that was done on the Capitol label blanks, has title is in two lines, but does not have the triangle Aim stamp!

Edited September 2, 2015 by Guest

[Northern295]

orrrrr, you could hunt down this beauty.....

 

[Chris L]

Two different USA capitol originals.

 One original has the title on one line, with Daisy stamp in run out groove.  (west coast)

Second original has title on two lines, but has a Triangle AIM stamp in the run out groove. (east coast)

The look-like bootleg that was done on the Capitol label blanks, has title is in two lines, but does not have the triangle Aim stamp!

Only ever seen the daisy stamp ones.............

[Chris L]

Two different USA capitol originals.

 One original has the title on one line, with Daisy stamp in run out groove.  (west coast)

Second original has title on two lines, but has a Triangle AIM stamp in the run out groove. (east coast)

The look-like bootleg that was done on the Capitol label blanks, has title is in two lines, but does not have the triangle Aim stamp!

Can anyone post a scan of this issue, not sure I've ever seen one. I wonder how many people have had thinking it was a boot ?

[Guest]

Only ever seen the daisy stamp ones.............

The Triangle AIM stamped copies are rare, but this was the design the bootleggers copied!

[Liamgp]

The Triangle AIM stamped copies are rare, but this was the design the bootleggers copied!

It may have been that Soussan (or whoever) actually got a bunch of blank discs as well from Capitol or even blank discs with the labels on them. In which case the matrix stamps would be 'genuine'.

Edited September 4, 2015 by LiamGP

[Chris L]

It may have been that Soussan (or whoever) actually got a bunch of blank discs as well from Capitol or even blank discs with the labels on them. In which case the matrix stamps would be 'genuine'.

No he only got the labels, there is a difference between the originals and boots, the boots have thicker vinyl.

[Soul-slider]

No he only got the labels, there is a difference between the originals and boots, the boots have thicker vinyl.

Are you sure it's not the other way around Chris? I have the boot and it's fairly flexible/flimsy. 

[Steve Foran]

As Chris L said only the blank labels were "found"!!

[Garethx]

I'd love to see an original of the Scranton-pressed copy if one exists. The famous boot uses this typesetting (which is very distinctive) and is so well executed that I can't believe a 1970s bootlegger went to the trouble of creating it out of thin air. The one we know is a definite original is the Hollywood-pressed release with 'DaisyWheel' stamp.

The story of liberating the label blanks from the Capitol offices is a great yarn but makes no sense as printing two colour blanks would be the very easiest part of the operation.

As an aside there are a good few legitimate Scanton-pressed titles where the IAM [International Association of Machinists] stamp in triangle is omitted. A theory that's been put forward is that these releases were produced when the unionised workers were on strike and the titles were produced by bought-in labour. Several Beach Boys releases from '66-'67 do not have the stamp but are original and legitimate.

The Alexander Patten doesn't look legitimate however. The vinyl and paper label stock are both pretty noticeably 'off'.

Edited September 4, 2015 by garethx

[Chris L]

I'd love to see an original of the Scranton-pressed copy if one exists. The famous boot uses this typesetting (which is very distinctive) and is so well executed that I can't believe a 1970s bootlegger went to the trouble of creating it out of thin air. The one we know is a definite original is the Hollywood-pressed release with 'DaisyWheel' stamp.

The story of liberating the label blanks from the Capitol offices is a great yarn but makes no sense as printing two colour blanks would be the very easiest part of the operation.

As an aside there are a good few legitimate Scanton-pressed titles where the IAM [International Association of Machinists] stamp in triangle is omitted. A theory that's been put forward is that these releases were produced when the unionised workers were on strike and the titles were produced by bought-in labour. Several Beach Boys releases from '66-'67 do not have the stamp but are original and legitimate.

The Alexander Patten doesn't look legitimate however. The vinyl and paper label stock are both pretty noticeably 'off'.

There were 2 boots made the Alexander Patten & Jerry Cook - Hurt on the other side. Only way to tell the JC is daisy stamp/vinyl thickness, again I think there's been quite a few threads about these 2 on Soul Source over the years.

Original

Boot

Edited September 4, 2015 by Chris L

[Garethx]

That Jerry Cook original above should not have a Daisy Stamp. It should have the IAM stamp as it is a Scranton pressing.

I don't believe they used proper Capitol blanks for these boots because the colours are wrong and the paper stock is wrong. I know it's a well-worn tale but why should we believe anything Soussan has to recount of his misdeeds?