TWO THINGS THAT ARE KILLING THE SOUL SCENE

[Joprinsen]

I agree Kev,

There  was lots going on in and around Manchester and Cheshire at any rate in the late 80's and early 90's.  Hyde Soul Club at Hyde Botanical Club is one I remember fondly. Incidentally there was also a good underground mod scene then too.

Jo

 

It depends where you go Mart, whilst that might be true of some venues, there are still many including our night in Selly Oak that don't resort to that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Toatly agree kev,and we was hearing good underplayed tunes has the Norm.Now we are back to accommodating the masses with overplayed Motown & Disco Demand oldies,it's not for me.

 

 

 

[Colouredman]

Ok, don't wanna belittle anyone here or state the obvious but this argument about record prices has been raging since time immemorial, yet there are some inescapable realities here regarding record prices which are less to do with the whole Northern collecting thing and more to do with simple market economics!!! It's called Supply and Demand! The fact that high prices are asked and sales achieved at those prices tells you one huge thing.... That the supply is NOT thre and that the demand is, and that, whether you like it or not the market can stand (and supports) those prices! Also, unless you're a strange breed of collector who is going to put your money where your mouth is, and sell your records in these current market economy conditions, for 1970's prices, which I doubt, then Yre actually part of the same syndrome; aren't we all... If we sell we all want the best prices we can get and let's be clear there is absolutely NO ONE regardless of their views on this, who is selling their records for anything other than close to current market prices!!! The plain truth is, for an anthem like Epitome of Sound, regardless of how many were made, clearly there weren't enough made to satisfy the demand still...40 years on from when it was first played! That tells U everything u need to know about record supply, customer demand, and record prices. Oh and one more thing..... Remember.... Unlike widgets, new cars, houses, Apple iPhones, and other commodities..... they don't make em anymore!!!!!!!!!!

[Quinvy]

Ok, don't wanna belittle anyone here or state the obvious but this argument about record prices has been raging since time immemorial, yet there are some inescapable realities here regarding record prices which are less to do with the whole Northern collecting thing and more to do with simple market economics!!! It's called Supply and Demand! The fact that high prices are asked and sales achieved at those prices tells you one huge thing.... That the supply is NOT thre and that the demand is, and that, whether you like it or not the market can stand (and supports) those prices! Also, unless you're a strange breed of collector who is going to put your money where your mouth is, and sell your records in these current market economy conditions, for 1970's prices, which I doubt, then Yre actually part of the same syndrome; aren't we all... If we sell we all want the best prices we can get and let's be clear there is absolutely NO ONE regardless of their views on this, who is selling their records for anything other than close to current market prices!!! The plain truth is, for an anthem like Epitome of Sound, regardless of how many were made, clearly there weren't enough made to satisfy the demand still...40 years on from when it was first played! That tells U everything u need to know about record supply, customer demand, and record prices. Oh and one more thing..... Remember.... Unlike widgets, new cars, houses, Apple iPhones, and other commodities..... they don't make em anymore!!!!!!!!!!

Hear, hear.

[Jordirip]

Ok, don't wanna belittle anyone here or state the obvious but this argument about record prices has been raging since time immemorial, yet there are some inescapable realities here regarding record prices which are less to do with the whole Northern collecting thing and more to do with simple market economics!!! It's called Supply and Demand! The fact that high prices are asked and sales achieved at those prices tells you one huge thing.... That the supply is NOT thre and that the demand is, and that, whether you like it or not the market can stand (and supports) those prices! Also, unless you're a strange breed of collector who is going to put your money where your mouth is, and sell your records in these current market economy conditions, for 1970's prices, which I doubt, then Yre actually part of the same syndrome; aren't we all... If we sell we all want the best prices we can get and let's be clear there is absolutely NO ONE regardless of their views on this, who is selling their records for anything other than close to current market prices!!! The plain truth is, for an anthem like Epitome of Sound, regardless of how many were made, clearly there weren't enough made to satisfy the demand still...40 years on from when it was first played! That tells U everything u need to know about record supply, customer demand, and record prices. Oh and one more thing..... Remember.... Unlike widgets, new cars, houses, Apple iPhones, and other commodities..... they don't make em anymore!!!!!!!!!!

But all you have to do is look around and you can get records like Epitome of sound, or Walter Jenkins etc. As has been said, copies are often on places like discogs at the very same time people are fighting over an overpriced auction copy. It's not about lack of supply versus massive demand, it's about being arsed to look.

[Colouredman]

I take ur point, but no one except someone has been living in a Tardis for the last 40 years is selling Epitome of Sound cheap. As a very shrewd n experienced n very well known dealer pointed out to me years ago....."if you have 1 copy of a record for sale and you hve 40 enquiries, U got the price wrong n r sellin it too cheap! If you hve 1 copy n 1 enquiry n it sells to that enquirer... Then U got the price exactly right!! Anything is 'worth' wat U can get for it basically.

[Quinvy]

Wise words from Mr. Ashibende.  

[Garethx]

They say a gentleman is someone who knows how to play the accordion, but chooses not to.

The only thing wrong is that there are too many people willing to DJ at the drop of a hat. One of the skills of deejaying is having a ruthlessness about your own set. Too many people are playing records that anyone could DJ with.

The soul scene is healthy when there are records worth travelling to hear—ones you could only dream about owning. I wouldn't get behind the decks anywhere unless I was sure that very few people in the room could replicate my set. That's not necessarily about the price of records, it's about knowledge and taste too. It should take a bit of detective work and a good set of contacts to get to the point where anyone should even think about playing their records in public.

That mindset seems to have been lost, but it seems like the age-old moaning about record prices is something the scene will cling to until the bitter end.

[Chalky]

They say a gentleman is someone who knows how to play the accordion, but chooses not to.

The only thing wrong is that there are too many people willing to DJ at the drop of a hat. One of the skills of deejaying is having a ruthlessness about your own set. Too many people are playing records that anyone could DJ with.

The soul scene is healthy when there are records worth travelling to hear—ones you could only dream about owning. I wouldn't get behind the decks anywhere unless I was sure that very few people in the room could replicate my set. That's not necessarily about the price of records, it's about knowledge and taste too. It should take a bit of detective work and a good set of contacts to get to the point where anyone should even think about playing their records in public.

That mindset seems to have been lost, but it seems like the age-old moaning about record prices is something the scene will cling to until the bitter end.

 

That mindset was lost a long time ago.  Every aspect of the scene is stale, upfront, crossover and oldies, all playing pretty much records that have been around for a long time.  Butch is not interested in Djing in this country it would seem which is a great shame.  The only other to my mind who is consistently turning records up is Andy Dyson but the other week, a set full of good lesser and unknown records got little reaction.  Far too many more interssted in talking outside or just sitting listening. I do 't know what the answers are?

as Phil says the crossover scene is no different to the so called upfront scene, playing records that have been around years with the odd new thing to garner some interest.

it would seem to me that many seem to treat it as a social thing with the music coming second, this includes all-nighters as well as soul nights.   Probably age having a major say in what people do at a venue.  The smoking ban hasn't helped either.  Of course the social apsect has always been important but so was the music.

The scene as quite rightly said is extremely healthy venue wise but for how long?  Still not enough youngsters to carry the torch, especially at all-nighters, many don't seem to travel far and wide but then again you don't have to and what is the point in travelling when what you will hear is pretty much what you can hear locally.  I've seen many play lists for all-nighters and they are no different to local oldies nights, I certainly won't travel for that anymore and I won't travel to hear the funk (funky) stuff being played either, much of it second rate, poor quality music (IMO). 

Whatever people do it is their choice and we are not in a position to argue really.  Those that do have an interst in moving e scene forward can only do so from the inside as a promoter or Dj but there is little chance with so many promotions and Dj's up and down the country every week who seem more than happy with the status quo. 

As Kegsy says just do what makes you happy or stop in.

Edited September 9, 2015 by chalky

[Slim Jim]

 I wouldn't get behind the decks anywhere unless I was sure that very few people in the room could replicate my set. That's not necessarily about the price of records, it's about knowledge and taste too. 

Exactly that's what its all about , you should be confident every tune you are playing stands up as a good tune on its own and don't try to anticipate what people expect you to play .

When I DJ  I always try to play a slightly "off the wall " set I don't plan it , I play what I've bought recently or what I'm currently listening to as well as the odd oldie I'd forgot about .

If people don't like it don't ask me again .

I DJ 'ed a few months back and the guy before me filled the floor with all the usual greatest hits of Wigan stuff , mostly on reissues and bootlegs too , I came on after to a more muted response (still got them dancing but not in the volumes like the last guy ) but I didn't care I got more satisfaction from someone who know's their stuff asking me what a certain record was as they didn't know it or someone else complementing me on something else they hadn't heard out in a while .

To me like many here heaven is hearing a set full of tunes you don't know , and as long as its not a funeral march I'll dance to it know it or not .

[Mellorful]

I don't like listening to a set of virtually all new tunes; like a good meal I like it balanced, a few classics (not top 100), a few underplayed and a few new tunes. But I agree with you that a set should be played with integrity, without bootlegs and reissues only as a last resort; that billy bootleg seems to get everywhere.  

That mindset was lost a long time ago.  Every aspect of the scene is stale, upfront, crossover and oldies, all playing pretty much records that have been around for a long time.  Butch is not interested in Djing in this country it would seem which is a great shame.  The only other to my mind who is consistently turning records up is Andy Dyson but the other week, a set full of good lesser and unknown records got little reaction.  Far too many more interssted in talking outside or just sitting listening. I do 't know what the answers are?

as Phil says the crossover scene is no different to the so called upfront scene, playing records that have been around years with the odd new thing to garner some interest.

it would seem to me that many seem to treat it as a social thing with the music coming second, this includes all-nighters as well as soul nights.   Probably age having a major say in what people do at a venue.  The smoking ban hasn't helped either.  Of course the social apsect has always been important but so was the music.

The scene as quite rightly said is extremely healthy venue wise but for how long?  Still not enough youngsters to carry the torch, especially at all-nighters, many don't seem to travel far and wide but then again you don't have to and what is the point in travelling when what you will hear is pretty much what you can hear locally.  I've seen many play lists for all-nighters and they are no different to local oldies nights, I certainly won't travel for that anymore and I won't travel to hear the funk (funky) stuff being played either, much of it second rate, poor quality music (IMO). 

Whatever people do it is their choice and we are not in a position to argue really.  Those that do have an interst in moving e scene forward can only do so from the inside as a promoter or Dj but there is little chance with so many promotions and Dj's up and down the country every week who seem more than happy with the status quo. 

As Kegsy says just do what makes you happy or stop in.

You mentioned Andy Dyson and Butch but not The Willinghams.........'hey ho' each to their own I suppose.  

If people would like to visit a venue but had been previously been disappointed then why not make a play request on the event section onSS a few days before the event so the DJ's have an opportunity to adjust their box and accommodate the requests. However, if people are going to ask for Billy Woods or similar then there is a strong probability they will be disappointed because there's not a lot of decent copies kicking about on OVO.  

I am not sure why you think Andy Dyson's set deserved more praise when he played a lot of tunes that very few people knew; I prefer a balanced set, a few classics (not top 100), a few rarely played tunes and a few new tunes, I go to a venue to dance and an excess of the latter would piss me off (some folk preferred main room at Wigan and some had a preference for M';s neither was right or wrong just different). Last year I enjoyed your set at New Century Soul, you played Ringleaders = Grin and bear it, it had balance    

 

[Chalky]

You mentioned Andy Dyson and Butch but not The Willinghams.........'hey ho' each to their own I suppose.  

If people would like to visit a venue but had been previously been disappointed then why not make a play request on the event section onSS a few days before the event so the DJ's have an opportunity to adjust their box and accommodate the requests. However, if people are going to ask for Billy Woods or similar then there is a strong probability they will be disappointed because there's not a lot of decent copies kicking about on OVO.  

I am not sure why you think Andy Dyson's set deserved more praise when he played a lot of tunes that very few people knew; I prefer a balanced set, a few classics (not top 100), a few rarely played tunes and a few new tunes, I go to a venue to dance and an excess of the latter would piss me off (some folk preferred main room at Wigan and some had a preference for M';s neither was right or wrong just different). Last year I enjoyed your set at New Century Soul, you played Ringleaders = Grin and bear it, it had balance    

 

I don't really hear the Willingham's these days and much of what I heard the last time I heard them wasn't new but yep they've had their share of newies in the past.

Andy's set was pretty well balanced really with quite a few of his favourites that have filled the floor the last few years, records he has made massive such as Cresa Watson etc.  The night wasn't really a classic sort of night, it was Lifeline. I agree anywhere else I like some balance, you can't play an hour of unknowns anymore, just won't work.

As for requests, especially prior to an event, I prefer to put my trust in the promoter and the DJ to entertain me.  I'd ban requests   but I always try to play them if asked and I have the record.

Thank you for your kind comments re my set 

[Len]

I’ve just been sorting some records to D.J at a local Soul Night this Sat night (The Attic Rushden). I was putting stuff in a pile that I guess lots of people will know, then there was another pile of stuff I may be able to get away with, then there were records that I know most people there won’t know.

A thought occurred to me - Surely that’s healthy isn’t it? A crowd that isn’t out week in week out, getting bored and moaning, but a crowd that is out for an enjoyable evening.

Maybe some of us have got to know too much about Northern Soul, and spoilt it for ourselves.

Below is a tune I stumbled across that I haven’t played in years, I’ll defo be playing it Sat night at The Attic……..Staying in for a while can do you the world of good 

All the best,

Len 

‘CANDACE LOVE - WONDERFUL NIGHT’

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSXdCzvqlVk 

Edited September 11, 2015 by LEN
You Tube Clip only showing link

[Jaco]

There's one thing killing the scene 100 times over.

 

Lack of imagination, lack of imagination, lack of imagination, lack of imagination, lack of imagination, lack of imagination, lack of imagination, lack of imagination, lack of imagination, lack of imagination, lack of imagination, lack of imagination, lack of imagination, lack of imagination, lack of imagination...................................................

If a decent jock has a (decent) collection of say 1000 singles, all worthy of being played out, regardless of genre, and let's say 25% are double siders, and let's say he does a one hour slot, once a week, somewhere, anywhere, and his (or her) slot takes up 25 tracks, he (or her) could play a set every week for a year, with 2 weeks off for hols, without EVER playing the same track twice within that year.

• Theoretical? Yes but to me it demonstrates why absolute inertia abounds despite over one zillion events taking place every week.

For gods sake give me variety. Going to a local soul do is the equivalent of watching the Dave channel - endless repeats of Top Gear et al.

[Len]

Whether we like it or not, the days of collectors playing to collectors / fanatics are about over - The choice is, you embrace the change or walk away.

I too love variety - Jacos' above post makes sense if you have a room full of people with that attitude, but if you tried to play such variety nowadays it simply wouldn't work at many places (a sad fact to some of us) But you definitely can push the boundaries / make it more stimulating than a lot of places are presently doing - without losing the interest of people 

But hey, there are still some good nights out there for me, and I intend to have a blast this Sat night at The Attic with people that have been on the Scene for years - along with those who it is new to.

All the best,

Len 

Edited September 11, 2015 by LEN
Punctuation.

[KevH]

If you start to moan about the nights you attend,give it a break. Recharge your batteries.

Its a tough call when to introduce an "unknown" into a set.A fine line between right an wrong - too many unknowns may not work for some while others can't get enough "new" stuff.

Like Len has just pointed out,some tunes are lurking in the boxes,not neccesarly big ticket or unknown,but tunes to freshen up a set.

[Corbett80]

 

Maybe what's killing the soul scene is that it is simply coming to its natural end? 

Edited September 11, 2015 by corbett80

[Len]

As we know it - But developing into something else maybe (Hopefully something enjoyable)

Len 

[Kev Cane]

Whether we like it or not, the days of collectors playing to collectors / fanatics are about over - The choice is, you embrace the change or walk away.

I too love variety - Jacos' above post makes sense if you have a room full of people with that attitude, but if you tried to play such variety nowadays it simply wouldn't work at many places (a sad fact to some of us) But you definitely can push the boundaries / make it more stimulating than a lot of places are presently doing - without losing the interest of people 

But hey, there are still some good nights out there for me, and I intend to have a blast this Sat night at The Attic with people that have been on the Scene for years - along with those who it is new to.

All the best,

Len 

Hi Len

Collectors playing to collectors/Fanatics is the way to go for me and far from dead, Horse and Groom Doncaster, Feed your Soul Newark and Sunday Soul Sessions Rushden to name 3 seem to be doing well, the playlists are incredible and prove that there are millions of records out there with some fantastic collections up and down the country to be heard and shared. H&G usually have 3 guests on who are under no pressure at all to follow any agenda or criteria which creates the variety that Mike (Jaco) mentions. Of course during the course of the day you will hear known trusted records but every time you go you don't know what to expect and come away delighted at the unknown and underplayed stuff you have heard. Collecting and listening to soul records is a bottomless pit. Where there are collectors willing and enthusiastic about sharing their treasures and a set of decks, the outlook is ok for me

Kev 

Edited September 11, 2015 by kev cane

[Len]

Hi Kev,

I'm not saying there are not venues out there - I know there are (and frequent them) What I am saying is, the change that us types don't like can be embraced / enjoyed by getting involved in a positive way, as I (and others) do locally. Result being - I get a good night out 

All the best,

Len 

Edited September 11, 2015 by LEN
Punctuation

[Len]

I'm not purposely plugging The Attic Soul Nights here, but at the last event there I kept saying on the mike, over and over again (Whilst explaining our goal)......."All we ask folks, is that you all respect each others tastes - No matter how bad they may be!".........Yes, a bit of a joke (ha ha) but by hammering it home like that, it seemed to work - The variation of music was unique. 

Getting involved doesn't necessarily mean D.Jing either - Just by attending these events, the promoter (if any good) will obviously want to cater for your tastes by booking D.J's that you like. Hence at The Attic, all sorts of people attend excepting that 'us lot in the corner' want what we want / and in turn, we except what they want - Yes even The Snake! There is a great atmosphere, and 'us lot in the corner' get to hear some great tunes during the evening.

"Failure is not defeat until you stop trying" 

All the best,

Len 

 

Edited September 11, 2015 by LEN
Addition.

[Guest DazUK]

 

The scene as quite rightly said is extremely healthy venue wise but for how long?  Still not enough youngsters to carry the torch, especially at all-nighters, many don't seem to travel far and wide but then again you don't have to and what is the point in travelling when what you will hear is pretty much what you can hear locally.  I've seen many play lists for all-nighters and they are no different to local oldies nights,

Nah then!

As a newcomer to the Northern Soul Scene I read comments regularly about the impending death of the Northern Soul Scene from long standing members that were lucky enough to be around for the glory days of Wigan et al. being brought-about by young upstarts like me. And I despair...

Unfortunately I am not old enough to have known these days first-hand.  I am a mere bearn at 45, and that's not my fault. But by some fate or hand of destiny I have found my way to this captivating and enriching music.

Nostalgia is a wonderful thing, but it will never resurrect those days. If you truly hold this music dear to your own soul then what should be done, instead of decrying the youths that attend local venues and want to hear the "same old tracks" is educate us... take this resurgence of interest from the yoof's and convert it into your legacy. Hand down the mantle of the future of the Northern Soul Scene as the master passes his tools to the apprentice.

When attending venues you will find me and my wife either on the dance-floor or seeking out those members that were wigan & torch regulars listening to the stories of 'the good old days'.  Young'uns don't bite. We are here, listening to what the DJ lines up for us, dancing the same steps. You guys have so much to offer if you would only get off your "eee its not like it used to be, rare vinyl, anti-modern snobbery" and show us how it should be. 

So come on guys, use your knowledge and experience to promote the best venues and DJ's, show us what you believe in, teach us the Nirvana of Northern Soul so young upstarts like me can learn a thing a two, then the scene may have future.  A future you can feel proud of being a part of shaping, rather than just proud of being part of.   

[Guest chorleybloke]

The scene has always been and will continue to be in a state of flux influenced by many factors (the vinyl supply/demand equation; availability of disposable income; abundance or otherwise of venues to suit different tastes; people's inclination to travel distances; an ageing majority; an increasing number of 20/30 year old enthusiasts etc etc). 

Many folk would argue that this is enhancing the scene rather than killing it.

In any event, from my perspective I have never had less than a fantastic time wherever I choose to go. IT'S ALL GOOD!

Cheers.......Pete

[Guest Byrney]

Nah then!

As a newcomer to the Northern Soul Scene I read comments regularly about the impending death of the Northern Soul Scene from long standing members that were lucky enough to be around for the glory days of Wigan et al. being brought-about by young upstarts like me. And I despair...

Unfortunately I am not old enough to have known these days first-hand.  I am a mere bearn at 45, and that's not my fault. But by some fate or hand of destiny I have found my way to this captivating and enriching music.

Nostalgia is a wonderful thing, but it will never resurrect those days. If you truly hold this music dear to your own soul then what should be done, instead of decrying the youths that attend local venues and want to hear the "same old tracks" is educate us... take this resurgence of interest from the yoof's and convert it into your legacy. Hand down the mantle of the future of the Northern Soul Scene as the master passes his tools to the apprentice.

When attending venues you will find me and my wife either on the dance-floor or seeking out those members that were wigan & torch regulars listening to the stories of 'the good old days'.  Young'uns don't bite. We are here, listening to what the DJ lines up for us, dancing the same steps. You guys have so much to offer if you would only get off your "eee its not like it used to be, rare vinyl, anti-modern snobbery" and show us how it should be. 

So come on guys, use your knowledge and experience to promote the best venues and DJ's, show us what you believe in, teach us the Nirvana of Northern Soul so young upstarts like me can learn a thing a two, then the scene may have future.  A future you can feel proud of being a part of shaping, rather than just proud of being part of.   

sorry, did you say you are a youngster and 45? 

[Guest DazUK]

sorry, did you say you are a youngster and 45? 

Despite the age on my driving licence (45), I am putting my lot in with the "Youngsters" as defined by : Not being old enough to witness the heyday of Northern Soul and being converted relatively recently.

This did seem to be the benchmark for inclusion as a NS survivor and therefore eligible to talk about "them and us"

 

[Wiganer1]

cant speak for soul nights but 

If youre on the allniter scene ,,theres something nusically  for everyone every week ,,,,the gr8 niters are still gr8,,,the people are as brilliant as ever,you still get the charachters ,,ive not been a rotten allnighter for years...its the still the brilliant allniter scene i joined as a 15 yeard old 35 years ago...

to me that sounds healthy long may it continue

ktf 

mark freeman

 

 

[Mike]

 

Nah then!

As a newcomer to the Northern Soul Scene I read comments regularly about the impending death of the Northern Soul Scene from long standing members that were lucky enough to be around for the glory days of Wigan et al. being brought-about by young upstarts like me. And I despair...

Unfortunately I am not old enough to have known these days first-hand.  I am a mere bearn at 45, and that's not my fault. But by some fate or hand of destiny I have found my way to this captivating and enriching music.

Nostalgia is a wonderful thing, but it will never resurrect those days. If you truly hold this music dear to your own soul then what should be done, instead of decrying the youths that attend local venues and want to hear the "same old tracks" is educate us... take this resurgence of interest from the yoof's and convert it into your legacy. Hand down the mantle of the future of the Northern Soul Scene as the master passes his tools to the apprentice.

When attending venues you will find me and my wife either on the dance-floor or seeking out those members that were wigan & torch regulars listening to the stories of 'the good old days'.  Young'uns don't bite. We are here, listening to what the DJ lines up for us, dancing the same steps. You guys have so much to offer if you would only get off your "eee its not like it used to be, rare vinyl, anti-modern snobbery" and show us how it should be. 

So come on guys, use your knowledge and experience to promote the best venues and DJ's, show us what you believe in, teach us the Nirvana of Northern Soul so young upstarts like me can learn a thing a two, then the scene may have future.  A future you can feel proud of being a part of shaping, rather than just proud of being part of.   

Despite the age on my driving licence (45), I am putting my lot in with the "Youngsters" as defined by : Not being old enough to witness the heyday of Northern Soul and being converted relatively recently.

This did seem to be the benchmark for inclusion as a NS survivor and therefore eligible to talk about "them and us"

 

lost for words here

thought you were some 18 year old on first read

45 ?

and you are posting stuff like that

god help us

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Peter99]

 

 

 

lost for words here

thought you were some 18 year old on first read

45 ?

and you are posting stuff like that

god help us

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know I shouldn't but.........................

First smile of the week!

 

[Guest]

45 yr old, your hardly a novice on nsoul circuit if u went 80s.personally I avoided the i went to Wigan merchants when I was in my twenties, heard it all before n am only 49. Lol 

[Guest Byrney]

Despite the age on my driving licence (45), I am putting my lot in with the "Youngsters" as defined by : Not being old enough to witness the heyday of Northern Soul and being converted relatively recently.

This did seem to be the benchmark for inclusion as a NS survivor and therefore eligible to talk about "them and us"

 

at 45 you could have had the opportunity to attend some of the best Allnighters of all time in the 80s, narrow view if you think Wigan and the Torch were the be all and end all. If someone sets a benchmark of being around at Wigan as 'us' and if not as 'them' I'd suggest they need to study this scenes history a bit. 

 

[Louise]

I've been following this thread for a few days now with feelings of both amusement and disbelief !

So inkeeping with the title of the thread here's a couple of point's I'd like to raise:

When did the scene's demise become the DJ's fault ?

For a proper DJ (and not a crowd pleasing player of records) to break a new unknown record he needs to have a receptive and intelligent audience to appreciate the fact ! being behind the wheels of steel can be a very frustrating, intimidating and unenjoyable experience when coming under attack from a bunch of Willie Mitchell's "THe Champion" requesting got into northern via a recent BBC documentary maniac's, therefore why DJ's bother to put themselves in such a uncomfortable situation.

Secondly the claim that no new records are turning up ?

 well there is, but because of the recent trend of if it ain't a 100 mph stomper it's no good anything midtempo and soulful gets largely ignored. A lot of previously unissued material is being released by several bona fide record labels worldwide which again is getting largely ignored because its only a tenner or because it's deemed a new record and DJ's are scared of being accused of not playing original vinyl.

 

There's a whole world of great soul music out there if your open minded enough to got out there and find it, too much living in the past ain't healthy.

Dave

 

Edited September 12, 2015 by Louise

[barney]

I've been following this thread for a few days now with feelings of both amusement and disbelief !

So inkeeping with the title of the thread here's a couple of point's I'd like to raise:

When did the scene's demise become the DJ's fault ?

For a proper DJ (and not a crowd pleasing player of records) to break a new unknown record he needs to have a receptive and intelligent audience to appreciate the fact ! being behind the wheels of steel can be a very frustrating, intimidating and unenjoyable experience when coming under attack from a bunch of Willie Mitchell's "THe Champion" requesting got into northern via a recent BBC documentary maniac's, therefore why DJ's bother to put themselves in such a uncomfortable situation.

Secondly the claim that no new records are turning up ?

 well there is, but because of the recent trend of if it ain't a 100 mph stomper it's no good anything midtempo and soulful gets largely ignored. A lot of previously unissued material is being released by several bona fide record labels worldwide which again is getting largely ignored because its only a tenner or because it's deemed a new record and DJ's are scared of being accused of not playing original vinyl.

 

There's a whole world of great soul music out there if your open minded enough to got out there and find it, too much living in the past ain't healthy.

Dave

 

what do you do when you are dj,ing in say Lancashire where receptive and intelligent don't exist , surely the dj holds all the cards and its their requirement to be intelligent and receptive .

as far as I am concerned the scene is far from dying and the many thousands who turn out every w/end for whatever w/ender ,soul night or niter not to mention the holiday events abroad are testimony to this , whats changed from back in the day the only people who made money then were the dealers ,pushers and the odd lucky promoter , now every tom ,dick and harriet want to make a few quid out of the scene whether dj,ing , promoting ,selling records , selling clobber ,selling tat , doing tv commercials ,films ,documentaries . magazines et al even providing dance lessons , where theres soul theres a pig with a snout in the trough .

apologies for lack of emoticons , : )

PS, I have some coloured clenched fist KTF  tax disc holders going cheap

Edited September 12, 2015 by barney

[Louise]

what do you do when you are dj,ing in say Lancashire where receptive and intelligent don't exist , surely the dj holds all the cards and its their requirement to be intelligent and receptive .

as far as I am concerned the scene is far from dying and the many thousands who turn out every w/end for whatever w/ender ,soul night or niter not to mention the holiday events abroad are testimony to this , whats changed from back in the day the only people who made money then were the dealers ,pushers and the odd lucky promoter , now every tom ,dick and harriet want to make a few quid out of the scene whether dj,ing , promoting ,selling records , selling clobber ,selling tat , doing tv commercials ,films ,documentaries . magazines et al even providing dance lessons , where theres soul theres a pig with a snout in the trough .

apologies for lack of emoticons , : )

PS, I have some coloured clenched fist KTF  tax disc holders going cheap

Simple answer my friend, don't accept a DJ booking in Lancashire, a proper discerning DJ would be selective where he or she plies their trade while a 15 minutes of fame player of records would a accept a booking in Syria at the ISIS Christmas party just to DJ, and pay their own airfare although he or she would most likely only need a one way ticket.

Dave

Edited September 12, 2015 by Louise

[barney]

Simple answer my friend, don't accept a DJ booking in Lancashire, a proper discerning DJ would be selective where he or she plies their trade while a 15 minutes of fame player of records would a accept a booking in Syria at the ISIS Christmas party just to DJ, and pay their own airfare although he or she woud most likely only need a one way ticket.

Dave

don't dj am just a mere punter , although fate draws me to the wrong side of them thar hills into Injun country from time to time I do have infinite patience and understanding which enables me to accept them as brothers and sisters in our soul family..

[Dave Rimmer]

Simple answer my friend, don't accept a DJ booking in Lancashire, a proper discerning DJ would be selective where he or she plies their trade while a 15 minutes of fame player of records would a accept a booking in Syria at the ISIS Christmas party just to DJ, and pay their own airfare although he or she woud most likely only need a one way ticket.

Dave

Who's arranging the DJ bookings for this Christmas party then Dave ?

[Pat]

I don't know about other areas of the country, but there is a promoter in my area that must be involved in half a dozen promotions. Same promoter, same Dj's, same punters. Just a different local town and venue.

He more or less has the oldies scene sewn up. 

People say that the unsuccessful nights will close. No they won't, not when the venues don't charge anything and people will DJ for nothing. That's what you are up against these days. Venues are struggling to stay in business, and as long as they get a few in drinking, that's all they care about. And wannabe Dj's who will kill for a spot. Don't even need to charge a door tax.

Result: events = tons of them, quality = zero.

Hi Quinvy

       Same problem in our area, Where are you?

[Quinvy]

Hi Quinvy

       Same problem in our area, Where are you?

N.E. Lancs.

[Pat]

N.E. Lancs.

Same here mate.Wolverhampton

[Chalky]

Nah then!

As a newcomer to the Northern Soul Scene I read comments regularly about the impending death of the Northern Soul Scene from long standing members that were lucky enough to be around for the glory days of Wigan et al. being brought-about by young upstarts like me. And I despair...

Unfortunately I am not old enough to have known these days first-hand.  I am a mere bearn at 45, and that's not my fault. But by some fate or hand of destiny I have found my way to this captivating and enriching music.

Nostalgia is a wonderful thing, but it will never resurrect those days. If you truly hold this music dear to your own soul then what should be done, instead of decrying the youths that attend local venues and want to hear the "same old tracks" is educate us... take this resurgence of interest from the yoof's and convert it into your legacy. Hand down the mantle of the future of the Northern Soul Scene as the master passes his tools to the apprentice.

When attending venues you will find me and my wife either on the dance-floor or seeking out those members that were wigan & torch regulars listening to the stories of 'the good old days'.  Young'uns don't bite. We are here, listening to what the DJ lines up for us, dancing the same steps. You guys have so much to offer if you would only get off your "eee its not like it used to be, rare vinyl, anti-modern snobbery" and show us how it should be. 

So come on guys, use your knowledge and experience to promote the best venues and DJ's, show us what you believe in, teach us the Nirvana of Northern Soul so young upstarts like me can learn a thing a two, then the scene may have future.  A future you can feel proud of being a part of shaping, rather than just proud of being part of.   

I think you will find there is no anti modern snobbery with me, I love music right across the decades.  If you visit my sites, mix cloud etc you will find I've done more than my fair share to share the music, especially what was heard in the 80's and early 90's, much of which is pretty much semi known and even unknown to many.  I get asked questions all the time and do my best to answer or help, from all ages.  I don't decry youth, I'd like to see more youngsters, they are the future if we are to have one.  I've done more than enough with DJing and promoting to try and make a difference but it is constantly banging your head against a wall with the oldies brigade, both young and old.

I've been following this thread for a few days now with feelings of both amusement and disbelief !

So inkeeping with the title of the thread here's a couple of point's I'd like to raise:

When did the scene's demise become the DJ's fault ?

For a proper DJ (and not a crowd pleasing player of records) to break a new unknown record he needs to have a receptive and intelligent audience to appreciate the fact ! being behind the wheels of steel can be a very frustrating, intimidating and unenjoyable experience when coming under attack from a bunch of Willie Mitchell's "THe Champion" requesting got into northern via a recent BBC documentary maniac's, therefore why DJ's bother to put themselves in such a uncomfortable situation.

Secondly the claim that no new records are turning up ?

 well there is, but because of the recent trend of if it ain't a 100 mph stomper it's no good anything midtempo and soulful gets largely ignored. A lot of previously unissued material is being released by several bona fide record labels worldwide which again is getting largely ignored because its only a tenner or because it's deemed a new record and DJ's are scared of being accused of not playing original vinyl.

 

There's a whole world of great soul music out there if your open minded enough to got out there and find it, too much living in the past ain't healthy.

Dave

 

Spot on Dave.

 

[Ncfc]

Soul scene is thriving in my lounge just played these to my greyhound.

Moods-"Neither one of us"

Howard Tate-"These are the things that make me know you're gone"

The Upperhand Band-"Get it together"

Peace on Earth-"Love foundation"

The Dramatics-"Stop your weeping" with Rena Scott doing the weeping.

No complaints from my hound

[Modernsoulsucks]

Over analysis and er.......pineapples.

I could only think of one !

[Louise]

Over analysis and er.......pineapples.

I could only think of one !

Not wishing to be pedantic, but would that be rings or chunks Rod ?

Dave

[Len]

I've been following this thread for a few days now with feelings of both amusement and disbelief !

So inkeeping with the title of the thread here's a couple of point's I'd like to raise:

When did the scene's demise become the DJ's fault ?

For a proper DJ (and not a crowd pleasing player of records) to break a new unknown record he needs to have a receptive and intelligent audience to appreciate the fact ! being behind the wheels of steel can be a very frustrating, intimidating and unenjoyable experience when coming under attack from a bunch of Willie Mitchell's "THe Champion" requesting got into northern via a recent BBC documentary maniac's, therefore why DJ's bother to put themselves in such a uncomfortable situation.

Secondly the claim that no new records are turning up ?

 well there is, but because of the recent trend of if it ain't a 100 mph stomper it's no good anything midtempo and soulful gets largely ignored. A lot of previously unissued material is being released by several bona fide record labels worldwide which again is getting largely ignored because its only a tenner or because it's deemed a new record and DJ's are scared of being accused of not playing original vinyl.

 

There's a whole world of great soul music out there if your open minded enough to got out there and find it, too much living in the past ain't healthy.

Dave

 

Hi Dave,

Len here  I’ve been on the same circuit as you for many years, and I think you would agree I have a reasonable ‘ear’ for Soul music.

I’m gonna be Devils’ Advocate here for a moment - I am ‘guilty as charged’ when it comes to “writing off anything new”. Reason being, from various play lists I have listened to thus far, most (many being new releases) are to me, either ‘Boo-Boo-De-Boop Boring’, or groups simply trying to sound like 60’s records, which (in my opinion) is pointless when we already have a huge back catalogue of great records anyway - Plenty enough to keep a vibrant Scene going for years (Especially at this rate) 

So - Would you post up three new (ish) release records that you personally think have that ‘something’, so me (and others) can state what we think of them?

This isn’t a trick question btw (respect an’ all that as you well know)

All the best,

Len 

 

Edited September 13, 2015 by LEN

[Louise]

O.K Len

Go and find (goole) these these out:

Joyce Elaine Yuille   "Just Say Goodbye"

Victor Hayes  "Picking Myself Up"

Natural Resources "If There Were No You"

E.R.I.C Life's A Mess

Dee Dee Warwick   "You Tore My Wall Down"

All currently or soon to be available at a very affordable price.

ATB

Dave

Edited September 14, 2015 by Louise

[Steve G]

Oh dear, not the "there's no good music anymore" thread Len?

Ya gotta look man, it is out there.

Thing is, if it ain't got that northern beat, then northern fans aren't likely to go a bundle on it.

But as you are into your mid tempo (the Midtempo activist) how about the recent (month ago) Nicole Willis "One in a million", Strange Faith "Walking over", Grace Love & The Love Tones or the new Lenny Williams album from the last ten days? I'll warn ya now they are hardly likely to get played at your local northern night though because they ain't northern. And this thread is about the northern scene.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Steve G

[Kegsy]

Oh dear, not the "there's no good music anymore" thread Len?

Ya gotta look man, it is out there.

Thing is, if it ain't got that northern beat, then northern fans aren't likely to go a bundle on it.

But as you are into your mid tempo (the Midtempo activist) how about the recent (month ago) Nicole Willis "One in a million", Strange Faith "Walking over", Grace Love & The Love Tones or the new Lenny Williams album from the last ten days? I'll warn ya now they are hardly likely to get played at your local northern night though because they ain't northern. And this thread is about the northern scene.

Actually, and I said it earlier, this thread is about the Northern scene as some people perceive or want it to be. Shock horror, but even back in the day, new releases were played and were massive on the scene Archie Bell Here I Go Again, Jimmy James A Man Like Me for example. 

[Steve G]

Actually, and I said it earlier, this thread is about the Northern scene as some people perceive or want it to be. Shock horror, but even back in the day, new releases were played and were massive on the scene Archie Bell Here I Go Again, Jimmy James A Man Like Me for example. 

Do you honestly think that the northern scene today would accept the playing of new / recent releases. I don't. Sounds like Archie Bell were contemporary for the time, and records like Lou Pride were played on the scene within 3 years of their initial release. So they still sounded contemporary in a world where Radio 1 was still playing "Knock on wood" and "Sitting on the dock of the bay" every day of the week.

Music today is totally different and the odd new release that did eventually go on to make it on the northern scene (e.g. "Bamboos" Tighten up, "Who's the King") a) were made to sound like old records, and B) took years to get accepted on the northern scene. 

Of course I am dismissing that piece of cr*p "Tribute" which was just too awful to mention in a discussion about soul music. 

[Kegsy]

Do you honestly think that the northern scene today would accept the playing of new / recent releases. I don't. Sounds like Archie Bell were contemporary for the time, and records like Lou Pride were played on the scene within 3 years of their initial release. So they still sounded contemporary in a world where Radio 1 was still playing "Knock on wood" and "Sitting on the dock of the bay" every day of the week.

Music today is totally different and the odd new release that did eventually go on to make it on the northern scene (e.g. "Bamboos" Tighten up, "Who's the King") a) were made to sound like old records, and B) took years to get accepted on the northern scene. 

Of course I am dismissing that piece of cr*p "Tribute" which was just too awful to mention in a discussion about soul music. 

It depends on you're perception of the northern scene I suppose, many venues with "modern" rooms play new/recent releases. However if "modern" rooms are not considered part of a persons view of the "northern" scene then no I don't. To me its always been about Danceable soul music be it rare or not, good music is good music simple as.

[Steve G]

It depends on you're perception of the northern scene I suppose, many venues with "modern" rooms play oldies. However if "modern" rooms are not considered part of a persons view of the "northern" scene then no I don't. To me its always been about Danceable soul music be it rare or not, good music is good music simple as.

Pretty clear to me that this thread is about the northern scene Kegsy. The modern scene is entirely separate in my opinion. I couldn't resist altering your post above since apart from a few who genuinely champion new music "modern" is the most mis-used term out there. I've been in plenty of modern rooms which turn out just to be anthem-fests….same old tunes every time. Modern oldies if you like.

In my view, the northern scenes haven't accepted new / recent releases and why on earth would they? It is a music form based on the rhythms and sounds of the 60s and early 70s, not todays music. Even "previously unissued" 60s recordings struggle for acceptance as in the recent One-Der-Ful / M-Pac releases. How many northern DJs have fitted any of them into their sets?

Surely the reality is that there is no longer a northern scene as such….Instead we inhabit a world where there are a multitude of scenes, loosely playing similar sounding 60s / 70s music. The public pays their money and takes their choice as to which venues they support. Whether that be a "Mecca reunion" or "Lifeline". Today `I can go to venues in London where I don't know a single person, and equally ones where I know just about everyone. It is totally fragmented and thats the way it will stay.  

 

Edited September 14, 2015 by Steve G

[Chalky]

O.K Len

Go and find (goole) these these out:

Joyce Elaine Yuille   "Just Say Goodbye"

Victor Hayes  "Picking Myself Up"

Natural Resources "If There Were No You"

E.R.I.C Life's A Mess

Dee Dee Warwick   "You Tore My Wall Down"

All currently or soon to be available at a very affordable price.

ATB

Dave

plenty of excellent quality records on your own label Dave, not least the up coming JB Bingham unreleased track.  Enough material IMO to do a quality set  

New release wise, one recent track I've taken to is Evette Busby - Not Here Not Now, decent dancer IMO.

60's wise if uptempo Northern is your thing, from Secret Stash "The Sharpees - Take me tomyour leader" and an Otis Clay track that came as. Abonus 45 with one of the Lp's, title escapes me, begins with "Show" I think.

Also two 45's on Soul 7 by the Uptites.  Other titles on Kent etc as well.

Records are out there but snobbery takes over with many as they are a tenner and recent releaes although often unreleased 60's.  But unreleased material will probably be the main source of material for the upfront scene as to progresses with very little coming out via new finds or studio acetates.

If this material isn't utilised then we will become a retro scene right across the genres/factions. 

[Kegsy]

Pretty clear to me that this thread is about the northern scene Kegsy. The modern scene is entirely separate in my opinion. I couldn't resist altering your post above since apart from a few who genuinely champion new music "modern" is the most mis-used term out there. I've been in plenty of modern rooms which turn out just to be anthem-fests….same old tunes every time. Modern oldies if you like.

In my view, the northern scenes haven't accepted new / recent releases and why on earth would they? It is a music form based on the rhythms and sounds of the 60s and early 70s, not todays music. Even "previously unissued" 60s recordings struggle for acceptance as in the recent One-Der-Ful / M-Pac releases. How many northern DJs have fitted any of them into their sets?

Surely the reality is that there is no longer a northern scene as such….Instead we inhabit a world where there are a multitude of scenes, loosely playing similar sounding 60s / 70s music. The public pays their money and takes their choice as to which venues they support. Whether that be a "Mecca reunion" or "Lifeline". Today `I can go to venues in London where I don't know a single person, and equally ones where I know just about everyone. It is totally fragmented and thats the way it will stay.  

 

So does the original poster mean a particular fragment of the scene is dying or the whole scene in all its fragments ?. If its just one particular fragment, it would be nice to know what that part of the scene it is in his opinion.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Kegsy