Footsee......friend Or Foe?

[Winnie :-)]

Whilst most currently on the northern scene hate this record was it in part responsible for the thriving scene today? The angle I'm coming from is to do with the massive influx of soulies mid 7Ts. Whilst its truly an atrocious record, the TOTP performances must have influenced many into thinking I could dance like that, or more to the point I'd like to dance like that. Most attending nighters/soul nights in the 7Ts would soon have discarded it as a quality record of any sort, and moved onto the more soulful sounds that really make up the scene. But should it be regarded in such low esteem if it did indeed introduce so many future true soulies to the world of northern soul?

Winnie:-)

[Guest nubes]

Whilst most currently on the northern scene hate this record was it in part responsible for the thriving scene today? The angle I'm coming from is to do with the massive influx of soulies mid 7Ts. Whilst its truly an atrocious record, the TOTP performances must have influenced many into thinking I could dance like that, or more to the point I'd like to dance like that. Most attending nighters/soul nights in the 7Ts would soon have discarded it as a quality record of any sort, and moved onto the more soulful sounds that really make up the scene. But should it be regarded in such low esteem if it did indeed introduce so many future true soulies to the world of northern soul?

Winnie:-)

Well, it certainly influenced me,although i had had a very brief encounter with Northern soul at our London school disco,looking back the dancing was more of the Motown style....but at 12, I thought it was great, fast forward 18 months later, watching TOTP, Footsie comes on, the dancing although looked familar to what i saw at the school disco was also nothing like it, it was faster....more energetic, i was absolutely gobsmacked..... yes, i even learnt to do the dance!!!! but I must admit once I started to hear more soulfull Northern, i never thought about the record again,i don't think the record itself should be totally disregarded because as you've pointed out, it was responsible for bringing many soulies onto the scene at that point who are still into the music, Delx

[Guest woolie mark]

Whilst most currently on the northern scene hate this record was it in part responsible for the thriving scene today? The angle I'm coming from is to do with the massive influx of soulies mid 7Ts. Whilst its truly an atrocious record, the TOTP performances must have influenced many into thinking I could dance like that, or more to the point I'd like to dance like that. Most attending nighters/soul nights in the 7Ts would soon have discarded it as a quality record of any sort, and moved onto the more soulful sounds that really make up the scene. But should it be regarded in such low esteem if it did indeed introduce so many future true soulies to the world of northern soul?

Winnie:-)

i think it's great

and mark ellis's dad is on it

of course it's not soul music, but a lot of northern oldies aren't soul records - nothing wrong with that

[Guest Brian J]

Like it or not, there's no getting away from the fact that it is part of our scene's heritage.

[Guest martyn]

Whilst most currently on the northern scene hate this record was it in part responsible for the thriving scene today? The angle I'm coming from is to do with the massive influx of soulies mid 7Ts. Whilst its truly an atrocious record, the TOTP performances must have influenced many into thinking I could dance like that, or more to the point I'd like to dance like that. Most attending nighters/soul nights in the 7Ts would soon have discarded it as a quality record of any sort, and moved onto the more soulful sounds that really make up the scene. But should it be regarded in such low esteem if it did indeed introduce so many future true soulies to the world of northern soul?

Winnie:-)

I wouldnt go as far as saying it was responsible for my getting into the scene (I blame my mates for that one!).However,it did inspire me to start going to dayers firstly & nighters secondly earlier than I would have otherwise done,purely because it suddenly became un-cool to dance to say Tainted Love or 'Rhino' at the local disco & not go to a major venue.

So to sum up,yes Footsie was a good thing in hindsight (IMHO)

[Winnie :-)]

I wouldnt go as far as saying it was responsible for my getting into the scene (I blame my mates for that one!).However,it did inspire me to start going to dayers firstly & nighters secondly earlier than I would have otherwise done,purely because it suddenly became un-cool to dance to say Tainted Love or 'Rhino' at the local disco & not go to a major venue.

So to sum up,yes Footsie was a good thing in hindsight (IMHO)

===========

It didn't get me into northern either, but it is difficult to deny it's influence throughout the country. Many are still on the scene I would imagine who were inspired by that record, and of course the knock on was that northern came to the fore. Other venues opened, and the scene thrives today. Clearly many were into northern before the 'footsee' phenomenom and lots of them are around as well, but has any single record had such an influence on a scene. Those getting into the scene in the 8Ts, wouldn't give you tuppence for the record, and would probably dismiss it out of hand, but without out it, would venues have thrived, would new venues have opened up. I'm not advocating it's reactivation, I don't like it as a record, just saying maybe when we're talking about our heritage it should have a slightly higher standing

Winnie:-)

[Guest Matt Male]

Nice avatar...

[Guest]

It influenced me too.. heard it when I was about 14 I think in an under 18's disco. We weren't spoilt for choice back then where I come from but I must say, it did it for me... together with the likes of Joe 90

I don't dismiss them even to this day.. they are part of my historical being and for those records I'm grateful I was able to go forward and hear more

[Guest MARTIN SNOW]

It influenced me too.. heard it when I was about 14 I think in an under 18's disco. We weren't spoilt for choice back then where I come from but I must say, it did it for me... together with the likes of Joe 90

I don't dismiss them even to this day.. they are part of my historical being and for those records I'm grateful I was able to go forward and hear more

I dont know this record by Footsie, but on the subject, and a genuine story, I used to have a girlfriend who was from Essex (no surprise when you read on) who wasnt the most intelligent person i'd ever met. One night she asked me in total seriousness whilst reading the money pages in a newspaper, "Martin, which country's currency is the footsie ?" That now reminds me she also once described a local country park here in Redhill Surrey, as "like Whipsnade without animals." Essex girls eh !

[Guest]

I dont know this record by Footsie, but on the subject, and a genuine story, I used to have a girlfriend who was from Essex (no surprise when you read on) who wasnt the most intelligent person i'd ever met. One night she asked me in total seriousness whilst reading the money pages in a newspaper, "Martin, which country's currency is the footsie ?" That now reminds me she also once described a local country park here in Redhill Surrey, as "like Whipsnade without animals." Essex girls eh !

[Craig W]

Don't forget the origins of this record actually belong to a 1960's recording!

[Ric-tic]

when i first heard this at the casino i was in the record bar and thought what the f**k is this and stepping back inside was even more gobsmacked to see the dancefloor full, ill get flack for this but thats the point i thought this place is becoming like a circus, john vincent said on here the casino had 2 good years and id agree with that, it was the mecca for me after that, not to say i stopped going cos i didnt i still went but from then it was getting a little silly, there said it

[Guest]

Don't forget the origins of this record actually belong to a 1960's recording!

[Guest woolie mark]

Don't forget the origins of this record actually belong to a 1960's recording!

...apparently the crowd noises are from hillsborough

[okehgaz]

...apparently the crowd noises are from hillsborough

Don't remember hearing boos on the record

Was responsible for making me want to learn more and introduced me to Chuck Wood

[Little-stevie]

It got me and my crowd going when we were 16 but so did the black n white minstrels,i think i have grown out of both now ....Does this tune get a play at any venues still???not sure what i would do if i heard it now,smile and think of my youth or throw chairs at the stage ...

[Winnie :-)]

Was responsible for making me want to learn more and introduced me to Chuck Wood

[Winnie :-)]

It got me and my crowd going when we were 16 but so did the black n white minstrels,i think i have grown out of both now ....Does this tune get a play at any venues still???not sure what i would do if i heard it now,smile and think of my youth or throw chairs at the stage ...

============

Might get a play at a Sunday all-dayer after a long weekend, in the back to your youthclub days, but other than that I haven't heard it. To be honest I wouldn't particularly want to hear it, I'm just trying to establish if it has any relevance to today's scene. Not from a musical point of view, virtually everyone's moved on, but from the perspective of introducing lots of people to northern soul, and making it fashionable.

Chronologically it seems that after footsee, more people were interested in northern soul, so more clubs formulated, and the scene got visibly larger. When ever you see a top 5 worst northern records, it's almost a given that footsee will appear, but I'm starting to wonder whether we owe it a debt of gratitude. I'm not saying it ever would or should be regarded as anything but a novelty record on it's actual merits, but that the possible impact of it was that we have a thriving scene today. The main question I suppose has to be, without it, would we still have a vibrant scene nowadays?

Winnie:-)

[Guest Soultown andy]

I think you make a good point winnie,footsie and a few other oddballs around at the time certainly did influence an awfull lot of people at the time.But how dare you suggest that to the ever so serious members on here [not all of course] .

[John Al]

Hmmm.........

I would say it had the opposite effect on me as I was just getting into soul and wondering what "Northern Soul" was when it broke. I decided this wasn't for me!

A short while later, I started going to Wigan but had a hard time convincing non-soulie mates that this wasn't a "northern" record and that we didn't spent all night "doing the footsie" as they put it.

The record undoubtedly attracted people to the scene, but not me. In fact I went in spite of it. It also put a lot of people off going and made a bit of a joke of the whole thing (as did Wayne Gibson, Nosmo King et al).

The scene at that time didn't really need a boost, I would have thought that a far more beneficial phase was the mod revival of a few years later which definately revitalised a flagging scene imho.

As to the general point, yes, we need media involvement to boost interest. Unfortunately these days, the media coverage is more of a "piss taking" variety..........and whose fault is that?

Good topic Winnie, got me thinking.

John.

[Guest Bogue]

Could never see how it took off really.

I remember at the time it came out there were things like "out on the floor", "tainted love" e.t.c filtering back to the youth clubs, which made me prick up my ears. But Footse didn't sound anything like that to me, at the time or now !

[Guest hammy]

I am beginning to tire of this. I can't talk for other's experiences of the scene but I know that my place on it, the music I like, and the places I choose to go has f**k all to do with some piss-poor 70s novelty record played at Wigan (yawn). It's a record for divs. End of.

The people who were inspired to come on this scene by that record or those who have returned to the scene with memories of it do the place more harm than good.

Hammy

[Winnie :-)]

I am beginning to tire of this. I can't talk for other's experiences of the scene but I know that my place on it, the music I like, and the places I choose to go has f**k all to do with some piss-poor 70s novelty record played at Wigan (yawn). It's a record for divs. End of.

The people who were inspired to come on this scene by that record or those who have returned to the scene with memories of it do the place more harm than good.

Hammy

============

Certainly wasn't extolling the virtues of the record, in fact I don't think anyone has unless I've missed a post. Don't think it was ever said either that it was responsible for getting everyone into the scene either, so maybe you've misunderstood the initial postings. I'd also argue against your last statement, people may have found the scene through footsee, but it doesn't mean their education ended there, almost all would have moved on to the more soulful sounds. Think you do them a dis-service by suggesting otherwise.

As Andy M said, perhaps the more serious soulie shouldn't get involved in this one, it'd mean taking the blinkers off

Winnie:-)

[Winnie :-)]

I think you make a good point winnie,footsie and a few other oddballs around at the time certainly did influence an awfull lot of people at the time.But how dare you suggest that to the ever so serious members on here [not all of course] .

============

Think that point is already in evidence Andy

It's the concept I'm talking about not the quality of the record, you don't like to have liked the record to recognise it's influence long term and don't have to have been to Wigan to understand it

[Jim G]

Friend or Foe?

We could insert the title of many records that would stir similar posts those above.

Footsee was huge when first played, it filled the floor, fact.

Some great dancers form the Casino danced to it on Top of Pops (Jethro and Little Kim)

Is it any good ? - debate until dead.

Insert next record tiitle and continue forums!

Oh for the record, I will always love it for the picture cover back page, my 'girlfriend' (at that time) is in it, Janie from Lancaster (the blonde near the front, wonder where she is now!) and Titch Farlow one of my best mates who became known as Footsee Farlow (he, like me is originally from Newton Aycliffe)

Me, I am Rory Gallagher and danced to Footsee many times at Casino!

Verdict: Friend to me for all the above reasons

[Guest Dirk Tiggler]

I remembering seeing Footsie on TOTP's & thinking thank God I'm no longer associated with the scene. I also remember seeing Skiing in the Snow on TOTP's & having the same feeling. During the Skiing in the Snow video I distinctly remember the drummer having a huge beer belly the first week it was shown. The following week it was on again (having shot up the charts) & the video had been re-recorded with the drummer wearing a corsett!!!

When I came back to Soul Music in 1984 I couldn't believe the records that were being played that I must of missed out on. So pleased some people carried it on. Regards Ade

[Guest hammy]

Sigh lol

Ok - maybe I did go over the score.

But of course anyone who takes the music they listen to with any modicum of seriousness is always going to be an easy target to knock....

Hammy

[Guest nubes]

I am beginning to tire of this. I can't talk for other's experiences of the scene but I know that my place on it, the music I like, and the places I choose to go has f**k all to do with some piss-poor 70s novelty record played at Wigan (yawn). It's a record for divs. End of.

Probably yeah to you, but why should it?? unless you were a teenager in the Mid-70s etc ,why should that have any interest to you at all.

The people who were inspired to come on this scene by that record or those who have returned to the scene with memories of it do the place more harm than good.

i was at 14, one of those that was inspired by that record to investigate the northern soul scene further.....going so far as to produce an article for Manifesto mag in '97.called "From Bebops to Backdrops" which looked at the origins of the Rare Soul Scene etc from the Flamingo club onwards, whilst there maybe be some who wallow in the '70s Halycon days of yonder, you will be pleasantly surprised that quite a few are interested enough in catching up with the present day scene,gosh that must be sooo damaging not to mention very harmful mmmh.Delxx

[Guest martyn]

I am beginning to tire of this. I can't talk for other's experiences of the scene but I know that my place on it, the music I like, and the places I choose to go has f**k all to do with some piss-poor 70s novelty record played at Wigan (yawn). It's a record for divs. End of.

The people who were inspired to come on this scene by that record or those who have returned to the scene with memories of it do the place more harm than good.

Hammy

Oh well, thats us told then

[Bazza]

Footsee, joe 90,Hawaii 5 O,,,all utter rubbish ,yes they did influence me...to move away from Northern soul ,Wigan did as much damage to the scene in its later years ,as the good it did for it in the early years,infact Wigan in its later years was a joke,nearly killed the whole scene,anyone that says, it was the best thing that happened to northern soul ,has not got a clue what it was all about

I may look at things a little differently to some of you because I was around 1972 onwards

just my opinion of course...........rant over

Bazza

[Winnie :-)]

Footsee, joe 90,Hawaii 5 O,,,all utter rubbish ,yes they did influence me...to move away from Northern soul ,Wigan did as much damage to the scene in its later years ,as the good it did for it in the early years,infact Wigan in its later years was a joke,nearly killed the whole scene,anyone that says, it was the best thing that happened to northern soul ,has not got a clue what it was all about

I may look at things a little differently to some of you because I was around 1972 onwards

just my opinion of course...........rant over

Bazza

=============

Didn't go to Wigan in the later years, last time I went was '77, so can't comment on what damage was done musically, I'll leave that to others to either defend or acknowledge but will say. Wigan's popularity spawned a lot of other clubs possibly eager to imitate it's success or take the scene in another direction. But without the crowds which were undoubtedly swelled due to Wigan's success, would other clubs have had a clientelle. However this isn't a 'wasn't Wigan great' post or a 'footsee was the bollox' post, it's to do with the influence of the media in the success of this scene

Winnie;-)

[Bazza]

=============

it's to do with the influence of the media in the success of this scene

Winnie;-)

Surely you mean success or downfall of the scene

Bazza

[Winnie :-)]

Surely you mean success or downfall of the scene

Bazza

=============

Suppose it could be regarded as the downfall, because it became public property, but on the upside a lot more people found it and are still with it now. Either way the media had a hand in it's development don't you think?

Winnie:-)

[Bazza]

=============

Suppose it could be regarded as the downfall, because it became public property, but on the upside a lot more people found it and are still with it now. Either way the media had a hand in it's development don't you think?

Winnie:-)

Yes Winnie, it did have an influence...for me a negative one ..for others maybe a positive one ,I was saying tunes such as that turned me away from the scene,but as you say obviously it had an affect..good or bad ,depends on you point of view

Bazza

[soulsalmon]

Yes Winnie, it did have an influence...for me a negative one ..for others maybe a positive one ,I was saying tunes such as that turned me away from the scene,but as you say obviously it had an affect..good or bad ,depends on you point of view

Bazza

i think it created a bit of a media frenzy,which led to a lot of people investigating the scene further,some stayed and expanded their knowledge of soul music,some fell by the wayside ,going back to chicken in a basket tiffany's,this seems to be the case with all "underground music genre's" ,cant say it did a lot for me ,i was on the scene already,but the influence it had was not altogether a negative one.IMHO.Salmon

[Winnie :-)]

i think it created a bit of a media frenzy,which led to a lot of people investigating the scene further,some stayed and expanded their knowledge of soul music,some fell by the wayside ,going back to chicken in a basket tiffany's,this seems to be the case with all "underground music genre's" ,cant say it did a lot for me ,i was on the scene already,but the influence it had was not altogether a negative one.IMHO.Salmon

===============

I think the investigation argument you make is a very valid point

[soulsalmon]

===============

I think the investigation argument you make is a very valid point

Winnie,the point i was trying to make was,some people ,after seeing totp,just went to wigan for a nosey,or turned out of nightclubs at 2pm cos there was nowhere to go,some got bored and went home ,some were gripped by the atmosphere and stayed.if you looked at the casino's membership you could nearly fill the new wembley if they all turned up at once,but they didnt ,a fleeting glimpse was all most wanted ,no commitment,no traipsing all over the country to hear the music,spending money you could ill afford,I investigated Va Va's in 73 and was instantly hooked.Although i rarely venture out now i still consider myself a soulboy.on the investigation point ,look at th emergence of london"i hate typing that word" as a place for northern soul in the 80s,sure ther were stalwarts like Ady,Clarky,Tony Rounce,ANdy Rix,Randy Couzens,but it was a very limited scene until it got media coverage and everybody investigated,now everybody with a mockney accent has been inti for years :angry:

[Winnie :-)]

Winnie,the point i was trying to make was,some people ,after seeing totp,just went to wigan for a nosey,or turned out of nightclubs at 2pm cos there was nowhere to go,some got bored and went home ,some were gripped by the atmosphere and stayed.if you looked at the casino's membership you could nearly fill the new wembley if they all turned up at once,but they didnt ,a fleeting glimpse was all most wanted ,no commitment,no traipsing all over the country to hear the music,spending money you could ill afford,I investigated Va Va's in 73 and was instantly hooked.Although i rarely venture out now i still consider myself a soulboy.on the investigation point ,look at th emergence of london"i hate typing that word" as a place for northern soul in the 80s,sure ther were stalwarts like Ady,Clarky,Tony Rounce,ANdy Rix,Randy Couzens,but it was a very limited scene until it got media coverage and everybody investigated,now everybody with a mockney accent has been inti for years :angry:

============

Salmon I agree with your points, particularly the investigating aspect and it was basically the point I made earlier. If you disregard footsee and insert A.N.Other record, if the media had become involved the result would be the same. The way the scene exploded at the time was down to people wanting to know what it was all about, as you say, some stayed, some moved onto the next fad, but because it got involved the scene became public knowledge. That led IMO to more clubs being formed, and because it had a certain kudos at the time the genre became more popular.

The equation as I see it. Footsee is played on TOTP, people watch the dancers, and want to know more. The media gets hold of it, the scene explodes, lots of new people are introduced, some leave, some stay, but because of the impact of that record the scene has a solid base to build on. When the scene was on the wane (numbers wise) it was still maintained by the faithful. Fast forward early to mid 9Ts, families had grown up, those touched by the scene started to return, now 20 soul nights/nighters every Friday and Saturday. I'm not saying they're all rammed or they're to everyones musical tastes, but they are there. How many people would now be on the scene if footsee had never been released, and it hadn't have had that exposure. We give the record such a bad press, and as a track you can give it nothing else, but without it would the scene have died a death, as most youth fads do? I realise it looks like I'm trying to justify the record, but I'm not, neither am I making a claim that because of Wigan we currently have a scene, because that's not necessarily the case either. I'm just saying it's a record that caused investigation, would have quickly been disregarded, with the investigator moving on. But on discovering more soulful sounds, the investigator will have said to mates, I've discovered this scene, you must try it, he/she wouldn't have mentioned footsee, that would long have been forgotten, as is the fact that you had to know about the scene to investigate it in the first place, and thats where I think footsee had a part to play. Sorry this is a bit long winded, and repetitive, found it difficult to put into words.

Winnie:-)

[soulsalmon]

============

Salmon I agree with your points, particularly the investigating aspect and it was basically the point I made earlier. If you disregard footsee and insert A.N.Other record, if the media had become involved the result would be the same. The way the scene exploded at the time was down to people wanting to know what it was all about, as you say, some stayed, some moved onto the next fad, but because it got involved the scene became public knowledge. That led IMO to more clubs being formed, and because it had a certain kudos at the time the genre became more popular.

The equation as I see it. Footsee is played on TOTP, people watch the dancers, and want to know more. The media gets hold of it, the scene explodes, lots of new people are introduced, some leave, some stay, but because of the impact of that record the scene has a solid base to build on. When the scene was on the wane (numbers wise) it was still maintained by the faithful. Fast forward early to mid 9Ts, families had grown up, those touched by the scene started to return, now 20 soul nights/nighters every Friday and Saturday. I'm not saying they're all rammed or they're to everyones musical tastes, but they are there. How many people would now be on the scene if footsee had never been released, and it hadn't have had that exposure. We give the record such a bad press, and as a track you can give it nothing else, but without it would the scene have died a death, as most youth fads do? I realise it looks like I'm trying to justify the record, but I'm not, neither am I making a claim that because of Wigan we currently have a scene, because that's not necessarily the case either. I'm just saying it's a record that caused investigation, would have quickly been disregarded, with the investigator moving on. But on discovering more soulful sounds, the investigator will have said to mates, I've discovered this scene, you must try it, he/she wouldn't have mentioned footsee, that would long have been forgotten, as is the fact that you had to know about the scene to investigate it in the first place, and thats where I think footsee had a part to play. Sorry this is a bit long winded, and repetitive, found it difficult to put into words.

Winnie:-)

Agree wholeheatedly with your comments ,but at the moment younger people are being lured onto the scene with modern,crossover, tent?,new releases"not that that i dont like some of it ",and are firmly convinced that they are into northern soul without recognising the history of the scene.Every music scene must have its movers and shakers,searling at wigan,Ady in london,dave withers from my neck of the woods,keb &guy at stafford,gary rushbrooke,rob marriot.

,the list is endless.if you want to be part of this beautifull scene you must recognise the evolution

[Guest tonytone]

YES! I WAS ONE OF THEM, I first got into Northern through the record "FOOTSEE" it was fantastic, I remember at one occasion up at our local dance and hearing it coming from the dance floor and could not wait to get in and dance to it

I still like it, it brings fond memories.

Whilst most currently on the northern scene hate this record was it in part responsible for the thriving scene today? The angle I'm coming from is to do with the massive influx of soulies mid 7Ts. Whilst its truly an atrocious record, the TOTP performances must have influenced many into thinking I could dance like that, or more to the point I'd like to dance like that. Most attending nighters/soul nights in the 7Ts would soon have discarded it as a quality record of any sort, and moved onto the more soulful sounds that really make up the scene. But should it be regarded in such low esteem if it did indeed introduce so many future true soulies to the world of northern soul?

Winnie:-)

[45cellar]

YES! I WAS ONE OF THEM, I first got into Northern through the record "FOOTSEE" it was fantastic, I remember at one occasion up at our local dance and hearing it coming from the dance floor and could not wait to get in and dance to it

I still like it, it brings fond memories.

If you haven't already, It's worth following this link from January 2006 https://www.soul-source.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=23469

Pete-S kindly provided a soundclip from Wigan - It is the version of Footsie before PYE tried - WITH ATMOSPHERE!

There's also TAINTED LOVE at Wigan, again with plenty of Stopmping & Handclaps

They did play a very Important part in getting people interested in the scene

Edited September 8, 2006 by 45cellar