Am I Alone In Thinking The Jam Were Poor?

[Guest Bearsy]

Anyway, this is a Mod forum of sorts isn't it? Seeing as how if it wasn't for Mods there wouldn't be a Northern Soul scene...

quality

its us youngsters who make it what is is today

[Supercorsa]

Anyway, this is a Mod forum of sorts isn't it?

No it isn't.

I've never been a mod, I was more of a skinhead listening to Two-Tone & Trojan stuff. Although I did get into The Jam through school mates.

>>Anyway here's what I wrote about my Jam stuff about 4 years ago!<<

[Mikevague]

Paul has good taste, period.

He makes records.

Buy em' if you like em', ignore em' if you don't.

Passion and strength have everything to do with SOUL, stereotypes about what proper "soul" qualifies as are for those missing the point...

As for Los Angeles, things would have been very different and less diverse here if he didn't make his records back in the 70s or 80s and we couldn't have expanded our musical horizons with them..It was FUN growing up with his tunes...

Keb spinning with Andy Smith and Paul will be a real treat...

f*** the fame/ glory crap, listen to their music like it should be. Paul has a good record collection, and deserves a slot I'm sure..

Nikki/ Russell, are you on the forum?

Say Hi!

[Eddie Hubbard]

Actually, I was the main warm-up DJ for their later shows - I started off doing them with Ady (who, admittedly, did land us the gig in the first place) but he was 'otherwise occupied' after the first two or three we did together (the shows at the Sobell Centre and Hammersmith Palais were they, around the time of "A Town Called Malice". After that I did all the UK dates, through to their final one at the Brighton Centre - some 20+ shows on my own in all...

Anyone doubting this can hear my voice at the beginning of the "Trans-Global Unity Express" tour video, introducing a record...

TONE

PS: The Jam were many things, but one thing they NEVER were was 'poor'. They made one of the greatest sequences of Pop 45s ever made outside of the Beatles. Whether or not you feel they had any influnce on people's journeys into soul, you can never, ever dispute their immense contributions to music in general...

I remember seeing you DJ at the La beat route in Soho 1980 , Paul Weller was there , dancing to tracks , like " Ton of dynamite" etc - great night !! Best ,Eddie

[Paul R]

Although the Jam have nothing to do with Northern Soul, back in the early '80s my mate John Orritt used to sell Weller Northern cassettes as he was getting into the sound.

Paul

[Guest]

?

Edited September 4, 2006 by ken

[Guest ShaneH]

i still reckon this can stay in this section.

if anyone strongly believes that it belongs in the freebasing forum please send me a PM with your reasons why

no replies on here please. all will be deleted

cheers

Shane

ps. i think the thread has plenty of soul btw

,why does he............should stikc to what he knows best,making punk records,next they`ll be callin` him the N/Soulfather............

thats soul sam aint it?

or is he barnfather?

Shane

[Guest Baz]

ps. i think the thread has plenty of soul btw

Style council definately had soul in most of there songs

Grew up listening to the Jam too, (late teens) definately had an impact on my musical directions.

[Guest Bearsy]

What about calling him the punlysoulmodfather then,

Edited September 4, 2006 by Bearsy

[Guest]

Lots of unknown artists,with a thousand times more soul,who actualy made soul records,we should be concentrating on them,not some northernsoul wanna`be,who probbly as everything anyway........Instrumentals are more soulfull!!

Edited September 4, 2006 by ken

[Guest ShaneH]

Lots of unknown artists,with a thousand time more soul,who actualy made soul records,we should be concentrating on them,not some northernsoul wanna`be,who probbly as everything anyway........

i can kind of agree kenny mate.

why don't you help me out then by deleting the 20 or so silly posts of yours first

I don't know what's up with you ken. maybe your screen is mucky and its making you feel dizzy everytime you type

Shane

[Guest]

i can kind of agree kenny mate.

why don't you help me out then by deleting the 20 or so silly posts of yours first

I don't know what's up with you ken. maybe your screen is mucky and its making you feel dizzy everytime you type

Shane

Ok

[Simsy]

Could'nt agree more, punk shit...the modfather....yeah righty ho :angry:

Lenny

Well seems I was wrong then ...

Bad day Len? Never sung along to 'That's Entertainment when yer pished up?

In fairness to Brian, the Jam were one group and the Style Council another. However (as already stated) the Motown influenced 'Town called Mallice' is enough to establish a link between the Jam and Soul. Bit of a bigger ask for Weller to pen a 'northern soul original' in the Jam period. When we have chin scratching threads about latter day northern soul releases - what constitutes and sim ...

[Supercorsa]

Well seems I was wrong then ...

Bad day Len? Never sung along to 'That's Entertainment when yer pished up?

In fairness to Brian, the Jam were one group and the Style Council another. However (as already stated) the Motown influenced 'Town called Mallice' is enough to establish a link between the Jam and Soul. Bit of a bigger ask for Weller to pen a 'northern soul original' in the Jam period. When we have chin scratching threads about latter day northern soul releases - what constitutes and sim ...

What about "Solid Bond In Your Heart" and the video that goes with it?

[Simsy]

What about "Solid Bond In Your Heart" and the video that goes with it?

Damn good question and exactly what I thought. No sign of that on brief Youtube search.. Only Harvest for the world ..

[Guest]

i can kind of agree kenny mate.

why don't you help me out then by deleting the 20 or so silly posts of yours first

I don't know what's up with you ken. maybe your screen is mucky and its making you feel dizzy everytime you type

Shane

Done it!! nowt like 20 though!!

[Guest ShaneH]

i think this has loads of soul...

the woodcutters son - paul weller 1995

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJoHprwac88

blooming brilliant!

Shane

Edited September 4, 2006 by ShaneH

[Simsy]

What about calling him the punlysoulmodfather then,

Im sorry?

[Guest ShaneH]

Done it!! nowt like 20 though!!

cheers ken

[Guest Bearsy]

Im sorry?

let me explain.

he has been called a punk, a man with soul and as i know him the modfather, in my eyes he is one of the best songwriter singers and there wasnt many of them in the sixties that ive ever had the pleasure of watching and listening too in my short life, it was just a way of trying to combine the varied thoughts of him into one, sorry about the spelling too !!

Bearsy

[jocko]

paul weller went to the casino - thats about it i think

Where did you get this from. I would be very surprised this isnt yet another celebrity urban myth, Tony/Ady can you confirm or deny since you were obviously in the gang!!

I seem to remember Pete Lawson writing him a letter about NS and getting a great response along the lines of he was never really into the Northern Scene but did like some of the music and then naming some great songs he liked, including Clydie King MLGD, which at time I was surprised him knowing but given Tony/Adys guest spots makes a bit of sense.

I had pretty much given up on non soul music by the time they came along but did like the Jam and they were the last non soul act I seen live (I think) and was blown away by their energy. Subsequent Weller I think is okay but sometimes think he tries to hard to be soulful (not just vocally) which probably limits him as he is a great songwriter (in my limited knowledge of that field should add!!).

Cheers

Jock

[Guest Rowly]

The Jam have (or should that be had as they split 24 years ago!) f*** all to do with NS ... (save for the photo od the dancer on the inner sleeve of The Gift LP ) - but they were far from poor. They were fucking brilliant!

[jocko]

Paul has good taste, period.

He makes records.

Buy em' if you like em', ignore em' if you don't.

Passion and strength have everything to do with SOUL, stereotypes about what proper "soul" qualifies as are for those missing the point...

As for Los Angeles, things would have been very different and less diverse here if he didn't make his records back in the 70s or 80s and we couldn't have expanded our musical horizons with them..It was FUN growing up with his tunes...

Keb spinning with Andy Smith and Paul will be a real treat...

f*** the fame/ glory crap, listen to their music like it should be. Paul has a good record collection, and deserves a slot I'm sure..

Nikki/ Russell, are you on the forum?

Say Hi!

This is probably off topic for this but a couple of similar posts to what I have higlighted above have been posted lately and I think it is this that are completely missing the point.

Assuming we are talking about soul music generally and not Northern then I think the above statement is just wrong, yes taking the literal meaning of the word Soul you could be correct but that is not what we are discussing generally when talking about Soul Music, and I think statements like above are complete disregarding the history of soul. I just dont think it can be disputed that It was produced as an evolution of Black American culture (over a number of decades possibly) and was probably at its greatest and peaked, late 60's to mid 70's as a result of the social and enviromental conditions that Black Americans had suffered and the changing social times of that era.To deny this is in my opinion rewriting history and forgetting what is "proper soul" is in my opinion disregarding this amazing cultural movement.

Apologies if off topic and a bit of a rant about what is probably meant as a light remark but I do think it is an important point, and said above this is not about Northern and the many genres that fit under this wonderful broad church (to quote someone else from recently).

Cheers

Jock

[Simsy]

let me explain.

he has been called a punk, a man with soul and as i know him the modfather, in my eyes he is one of the best songwriter singers and there wasnt many of them in the sixties that ive ever had the pleasure of watching and listening too in my short life, it was just a way of trying to combine the varied thoughts of him into one, sorry about the spelling too !!

Bearsy

Furry muff mate. Was just the 'punly' bit that threw me ..

[Guest]

This is probably off topic for this but a couple of similar posts to what I have higlighted above have been posted lately and I think it is this that are completely missing the point.

Assuming we are talking about soul music generally and not Northern then I think the above statement is just wrong, yes taking the literal meaning of the word Soul you could be correct but that is not what we are discussing generally when talking about Soul Music, and I think statements like above are complete disregarding the history of soul. I just dont think it can be disputed that It was produced as an evolution of Black American culture (over a number of decades possibly) and was probably at its greatest and peaked, late 60's to mid 70's as a result of the social and enviromental conditions that Black Americans had suffered and the changing social times of that era.To deny this is in my opinion rewriting history and forgetting what is "proper soul" is in my opinion disregarding this amazing cultural movement.

Apologies if off topic and a bit of a rant about what is probably meant as a light remark but I do think it is an important point, and said above this is not about Northern and the many genres that fit under this wonderful broad church (to quote someone else from recently).

Cheers

Jock

You cant be of topic,in a off topic thread can you?

[arnie j]

well seeing as the Jam bugger all to do with Northern then, shouldn't this be in freebasing, or better still on some mod forum

superb comment

[Richard]

The only thing associating The Jam with Northern Soul was that Weller started talking about it in interviews and as has been mentioned had played at quite a number of the concerts (I was at Sobell Centre that Tony mentioned).

Now being a Londoner and being about 15 I'd never even heard of Northern Soul but all of a sudden it was being talked about and more importantly I could get to hear it. Prior to this mainly all I'd heard was Motown and chart soul but all of a sudden there were all these great tunes I'd never heard before.

In London there was an upsurge of people getting into Northern Soul, the 100 Club was the place to go, at Mod nights Northern was being played - I should imagine similar stories are the same from other parts of the country not just London.

So The Jam was very important in raising awareness more than anything

Edited September 4, 2006 by richard

[Winnie :-)]

I like the Jam but can't really see what they've got to do with the northern scene. Does he have any records played on the scene, does he still go, is he promoting the scene and bringing it to the fore? Don't think so to any of the questions, so can't see how it qualifies to be in 'all about soul'. The fact that he, or his publicity machine called himself the modfather has very little relevance. Would have thought his influences more likely to be the small faces/beatles/kinks etc rather than soul. Wasn't the term coined around the time of Quadrophenia in an attempt to cash in?

Winnie:-)

[Guest]

Dig a bit deeper and you'll find covers of lots of soul tunes in their back catalogue

You'll also find some fantastic horn-sections and soulful backing

The Style Council (Weller's apres-Jam project) created some of the best Soul-Mod-Jazz music ever made

They sometimes wore nice scarves

If it wasn't for them the Northern Soul scene would be a much quieter place

The Jam's version of Stoned out of my Mind is better than the Chi-Lites

They give us another option when we've exhausted the soul 45s at our after-parties

World Column's So Is The Sun is a completely shameless rip-off of The Jam's Transglobal Express

Regarding The Style Council ...... The keyboard player in the SC - Mick Talbot - was an integral part ( on keyboards ) for the musical backing on / for the tour that KIM WESTON did in the UK earlier this year ..... and damn good he was too .

Malc Burton

[Richard]

is he promoting the scene and bringing it to the fore?

As I said above in the early 80's he sure did, agreed not now days though

[Simsy]

superb comment

Although somewhat untrue ..

[Guest]

I was out with one of my '40 something' Sales Reps, a few months ago, and he had the Wellers "Studio 150" album on in the Motor.

I couldn't believe the tracklisting.

"If I Could Only Be Sure"

"The Bottle"

"Hercules"

"Dont Make Promises" and others.

He was all in a lather abour the 'Soulfulness' of Wellers 'Performance' ... so I did the poor lad a favour with a CD of the original versions - by NF Porter, Gil Scott Heron, Aaron Neville, ZZ Hill etc.

He hasn't looked back since.

I guess if artists such as PW want to 'pay tribute' to Soul Music by covering Soul classics, then it can sometimes open doors to 'the real deal' for many music lovers. It's just such a p**sser when the inferior cover gets the plaudits (...and the green).

Were the Jam poor?... I don't think so... Probably made a bl**dy fortune!

Sean

Hello Sean you old divil ......

Any jobs going with you for a 50 something rep ? I don't need converting in respect of music , and my wife speaks highly of you .

Malc

[Guest rasfoz]

Yeah mr weller i supose is a soulfull kind of chap who likes soulfull kind of music, which is an avenue he tried to explore with the style council, just that he didnt really do that with the jam & besides the other 2 were crap & might aswell of been a pair of students, the songs sound would of remained the same , yes i heard that he attended some soul dos (dont know about the casino ) in the mid to 70s so yeah mr wellers ok the other 2 are not soulfull in the slightest, mr wellers ok & soulfull the other 2 are gash & non soulfull so lets just change it to a big up weller post & from now on instead of the modfather call him our father that art in hevan ect ect & yes to sum it up 66% & a bit of the jam were crap & had nothing to do with northern soul the other 33% & a bit did, so that swings it to the jam were gash weller was good , so yes that makes a relevant reason to talk about them on here dont you think

[Richard]

As I said above in the early 80's he sure did, agreed not now days though

Actually I'm probably doing him an injustice as the last few Weller concerts I've been to he still has Northern played over the pa as a warm up before the concert

[Guest WR67]

Great live band....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_9fFL2dmZU

[Guest bertie97]

Parkas for goal posts.Thought real scooters were Vespas(but dreamed of an SX 200)Real Jam is Robertsons.Make a crap record with a hero(Dean Parrish)etc....etc..etc.

[Guest]

yer right bud, utter garbage.more soul in a bucket ov slapped twats.same goes for the who,the kinks,n whoever else them morons in parker coats n what av yer listen to.

[Guest in town Mikey]

What about "Solid Bond In Your Heart" and the video that goes with it?

Wasnt Solid Bond, the first Style Council track? I know he wrote it as one of the possibilites for the last Jam record.

Northern Soul link. The venue for the best pop video ever, is Bisley Pavilion.

[Richard]

bertie@97Posted Today, 01:45 AM Parkas for goal posts.Thought real scooters were Vespas(but dreamed of an SX 200)Real Jam is Robertsons.Make a crap record with a hero(Dean Parrish)etc....etc..etc.

southern haddockPosted Today, 02:18 AM yer right bud, utter garbage.more soul in a bucket ov slapped twats.same goes for the who,the kinks,n whoever else them morons in parker coats n what av yer listen to.

Thanks for some stunning contributions there fellas

The people who are replying that like The Jam have said they are not in any way considered a soul band but soul was played at their concerts and that's what influenced a lot of us to look into this scene.

Edited September 5, 2006 by richard

[BrianB]

Dig a bit deeper and you'll find covers of lots of soul tunes in their back catalogue

You'll also find some fantastic horn-sections and soulful backing

The Style Council (Weller's apres-Jam project) created some of the best Soul-Mod-Jazz music ever made

They sometimes wore nice scarves

If it wasn't for them the Northern Soul scene would be a much quieter place

The Jam's version of Stoned out of my Mind is better than the Chi-Lites

They give us another option when we've exhausted the soul 45s at our after-parties

World Column's So Is The Sun is a completely shameless rip-off of The Jam's Transglobal Express

I know nothing about the Jam, but I heard World Column at the Casino in late 75 early 76. Wasn't that before the Jam?

[Baz Atkinson]

CAN NEVER REMEMBER SEEING MR WELLER AT THE CASINO?LOVE HIS SOLO ALBUMS,BUT I HONESTLY THINK NORTHERN SOUL IS A MILLION MILES AWAY FROM PAUL WELLER,COMPARE THE TRANNELLS WITH TOWN CALLED MALICE CANT SEE THE CONNECTION REALLY.

BAZ A.

[Guest the dukester]

Thought real scooters were Vespas(but dreamed of an SX 200)

Real scooters VESPAS??????

KEEP ON DREAMING MATE

[Guest in town Mikey]

About the only way I can relate to the jam being poor, was when Bruce and Rick claimed to be on their uppers, and sued Paul Weller''s dad for unpaid royalties.

[Simsy]

Thought real scooters were Vespas(but dreamed of an SX 200)

Real scooters VESPAS??????

KEEP ON DREAMING MATE

Check this bad boy. Isn't it a thing of beauty It belongs to Sir Ian Rowland ..

PIC REMOVED ON REQUEST

Vespa's for the boys, Lambretta's for the men.

Edited September 5, 2006 by Simsy

[leev]

i can't be arsed trying to make a soulful connection or drawing any paralells with the northern scene, and although not a massive jam fan, i must admit Liza Radley is one of my favourite ballads of any genre. Haunting and possibly wellers finest moment imho.

[Markw]

Superb. This thread, or similar, comes around at least once a year on this site and ALWAYS gets people going. I said it last time and the time before that and the time before that........

All you people who say Paul Weller and the Jam have nothing to do with Northern Soul are deceiving yourselves. The very fact that this thread keeps cropping up speaks volumes. The truth is, a great deal of people who got into soul would not have even heard of it if it hadn't been for the Jam, the Mod scene, the scooter scene and so on.

Also, anyone who says the Jam are poor, or "OK" doesn't have a clue about music. I'm not saying you have to like them but their mark is there for all to see and hear. I'm not keen on Mozart, but I'm intelligent enough to acknowledge his influence.

[Guest]

Superb. This thread, or similar, comes around at least once a year on this site and ALWAYS gets people going. I said it last time and the time before that and the time before that........

All you people who say Paul Weller and the Jam have nothing to do with Northern Soul are deceiving yourselves. The very fact that this thread keeps cropping up speaks volumes. The truth is, a great deal of people who got into soul would not have even heard of it if it hadn't been for the Jam, the Mod scene, the scooter scene and so on.

Also, anyone who says the Jam are poor, or "OK" doesn't have a clue about music. I'm not saying you have to like them but their mark is there for all to see and hear. I'm not keen on Mozart, but I'm intelligent enough to acknowledge his influence.

What next week,a thread about Dexys midnight runners,or maybe Joe boxers,all so unsoulfull

[Guest in town Mikey]

And I am sure i have said on all the previous Jam threads. For me one of the most soulful albums of any decade is the first Hot House Flowers album, and for the sound of a soul diva, Eddie reader can hold place with the best.

Only a few agree tho :-(

[soulsalmon]

We were into Northern Soul, The Jam were a punk band, poles apart. Then I bought the first album, which wasn't great, the second, which was worse, the third and fourth were great though. I saw them at Wolvo Civic in 1980 and they were the best live band I ever saw, never seen one better since then either, the amount of power they got for a 3 piece was phenomenal. Never associated them with anything to do with northern soul though...

agrre on this Pete ,punk band ,political lyrics,brilliant liveawesome sound unless it was one of foxtons somgs,f*** all to do with soul in any shape or form

[Guest Andy BB]

Can you delete Rowly's scooter pic please it's cocking up my browser

Ta