Rita & The Tiaras Original On E-Bay $3,850 And Still 5 Days To Go,

[Jumpinjoan]

Is that better or worse than your "pants" grading Joan?   

 

 

Pants is worse lol 

[Okehdownsouth]

Is this a converation about Rita and The Tiaras. Milton James or the inflation that effects the market for rare and in demand soul records?

I was 11 when I started scouring junk shops for 60's soul records and never paid mre than 5 bob for anything, including a box load of UK Motown Demos (20p each!). I was 15 when I first went to Wigan and funded my trips by washing dishes in hotels where I was paid 3 quid for a whole day. At 16 started work and earned £18 a week and spent most of it travelling to all nighters so could not afford to even think about buying those mega rare records that were changing hands for £10-£100 a pop. 

Today there are more people with more money chasing fewer records. so the price goes up and will continue to, so stop moaning, the prices that are being paid are what they simply what people are prepared to pay because that is what they are worth to them.

[Tobytyke]

a friend of mine here in Berlin has a live recording (tape) of famous LA radio discjockey Jim Pruter playing this in his show back in 1967 introducing it as an great oldie...being so popular with the Lations down in LA..."Gone With The Wind" that is and not the flipside...wow.

 

Must have sold hundreds if not thousands at a guess if it was classed as a popular oldie back then already. At a guess there are still copies left and yet to surface from Latino households in and around East LA...

 

 

Perhaps Taboo, but weren't it the worst seller on UK Destiny (800 copies?) when issued in the UK for the first time.

R E Gards TOTP

So does that make  the destiny release rarer/and or more valuable than the ones being auctioned ?

[Chris L]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/361276757994?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

In spite of the amount of bids and price there are only (at this moment) 4 bidders.

[Northern Soul Uk]

£4,156.67 Final price

[Stanley]

doesn,t surprise me as condition is everything ,and the iconic 45,s are just going higher and higher.pardon the pun....it makes predicting the prices on this type of condition and desirable tune ,at a low estimate,a bit stupid in the scene we are in now.good luck to the buyer.

[Frankie Crocker]

Money well spent. If you have enough of the stuff, blow it on whatever pleases you. The real question is, how do we all get a nice fat wodge of spare cash to buy nice records?

[Guest sharmo 1]

So what would a promo fetch , they have to be rarer than the issues ? . Just over four grand for an issue , there's no getting away from the fact it's in demand and a floor filler and more than holding it's own price wise .

[Guest sharmo 1]

There's a copy for auction on Tim Browns list at the moment I think it's at £1,200.00 but don't think it's a minter !! so in rarity terms 2 on auction at the same time !

[John Parker]

MOM is far superior, why it was never flipped at Casino/Central I'm not sure as it would have gone down a storm even then.

 

MOM and Rita both superior to Milton James as well.

Dont disagree there Chalky..much prefer the ManOh Man side...just giving the lessr played side a bit of a chance.

 

 

Not sure what bobbins means though...last time I saw some was in my grandmothers sewing bag...interesting phraseology these youngsters come up with these days

[NEV]

There's a copy for auction on Tim Browns list at the moment I think it's at £1,200.00 but don't think it's a minter !! so in rarity terms 2 on auction at the same time !

£1800 start and a promo too .

I auctioned one on here about 5yr back in unplayed NM and got a quarter of the ebay end price

Must be some richer people about since the banking crisis and the Tory term in power eh

[Guest sharmo 1]

£1800 start and a promo too .

I auctioned one on here about 5yr back in unplayed NM and got a quarter of the ebay end price

Must be some richer people about since the banking crisis and the Tory term in power eh

So in conclusion under Tory leadership we now have either bankers , landlords or fat tory capitalists paying their workers minimum wages buying rare records , there you go then .

[Monkey]

As someone else pointed out earlier in this thread Rita and the Tiaras isn't a particularly rare record, a good one yes but not rare. Whether some people need certifying for paying these continually increasing prices, well I thats still open to question. The bubble WILL eventually burst but I guess ive been saying that for 30 years now!

Edited May 4, 2015 by monkey

[Monkey]

MOM is far superior, why it was never flipped at Casino/Central I'm not sure as it would have gone down a storm even then.

 

MOM and Rita both superior to Milton James as well.

 

Guess Pat never flipped it over or played that side.

You would be very lucky to any the newer sounds at the Central anyway, it was firmly an oldies oriented night and always was, Pat would play oldies and drop the odd record in from his Wigan/Ritz playlist.

[Chalky]

£4k plus should be the price for a really rare record, not just a DJ's got to when dance floor empty type record.  It is yet more proof that far too many have too much spare cash.  I agree what they spend it on is up to them but surely some common sense has to return to record collecting at some point?

[purist]

You're right, Walter got plenty of spins. It was Mark's ace in the hole record late 80's and early 90's when I got back into Allnighters and was one of the records that really hooked me. I was at the 100 Club when he spun Milton first, second, third etc and he really had to work hard to break it. If I recall, once he called it 'Indian Music' and another time he said something like I hope you dance to this 'cos it cost a ******* lot of money. 

Glad it's not just me that remembers it, but I thought it sounded more like " Injun Music ", which I expected him to follow on saying " Consarn it and Dagnabbit, you folks had better get to dancin' " as he whipped out his six shooter

[Frankie Crocker]

Glad it's not just me that remembers it, but I thought it sounded more like " Injun Music ", which I expected him to follow on saying " Consarn it and Dagnabbit, you folks had better get to dancin' " as he whipped out his six shooter

You're right, I was getting my Bangla mixed up with indigenous peoples or something like it. It was when Butch jumped off the stage waving a tomahawk that I realised he said 'injun'. Mind you, that's no way to encourage dancers to move to Milton James, even if you've just splashed out £30 for a copy. Small wonder everyone sat cross-legged on The 100 Club dancefloor and chanted 'We Want Walter'.

[Jumpinjoan]

Dont disagree there Chalky..much prefer the ManOh Man side...just giving the lessr played side a bit of a chance.

 

 

Not sure what bobbins means though...last time I saw some was in my grandmothers sewing bag...interesting phraseology these youngsters come up with these days

 

Nice to be thought of as one of the youngsters John 

 

How about pants, is that better lol

Edited May 4, 2015 by jumpinjoan

[Mellorful]

As someone else pointed out earlier in this thread Rita and the Tiaras isn't a particularly rare record, a good one yes but not rare. Whether some people need certifying for paying these continually increasing prices, well I thats still open to question. The bubble WILL eventually burst but I guess ive been saying that for 30 years now!

The bubble will burst but probably not for a couple more years (I estimate in 6/7 years) when many of the original collectors reach retirement age and need cash to supplement that generous state pension; or when collectors start to fall from the perch and the families settle the estate and get rid of those precious records.

Young uns entering the scene now will be settling down with mortgages and families and therefore unlikely to make expensive buys.

Atb

Stu 

[Stanley]

i,m at retirement age now, and an original collector,but still love my 45,s in lovely condition.i reckon things will settle down and common sense prices will prevail when manship auctions a copy of rita and the tiaras issue or demo.

[Winsford Soul]

i,m at retirement age now, and an original collector,but still love my 45,s in lovely condition.i reckon things will settle down and common sense prices will prevail when manship auctions a copy of rita and the tiaras issue or demo.

George  . Are you trying to tell us something  Hope your well my friend

 

Steve

[Stanley]

yes most certain , i,m well and of sound mind.i think if people are determined to have a 45 at whatever they are willing to pay because they MUST HAVE.please don,t say they are idiots because they are passionate about a 45 and class them as low life & don,t know what they are doing.if this scene is going to reach more generations,do you think we should encourage new buyers and make the collecting more healthy.?god if it wasn,t for manship first .bringing it smack in the face of all of us and continuing to do so.would we all be as knowledgeable.i,ve learned something from him.nothing wrong with promoting our scene to genuine collectors who want to own the precious original 45,s in fanastic condition.who is the authority on our music ?no one on here.lets encourage collecting,and owning original 45,s and fook the bootleggers off.end of

Edited May 4, 2015 by stanley

[Labeat]

You can't beat unearthing a $5 record that sounds like it's £1,000

[Quinvy]

We have strayed off topic now, but people have been saying that record prices will tumble soon since Soul Sam were a lad. Yet they still keep going up and up.

 

I'm just jealous that I haven't got that kind of money to spend. 

[Ian]

You can't beat unearthing a $5 record that sounds like it's £1,000

 

Even nicer unearthing a $1,000 record for $5.

 

Ian

Edited May 5, 2015 by Ian

[Guest turntableterra]

yes most certain , i,m well and of sound mind.i think if people are determined to have a 45 at whatever they are willing to pay because they MUST HAVE.please don,t say they are idiots because they are passionate about a 45 and class them as low life & don,t know what they are doing.if this scene is going to reach more generations,do you think we should encourage new buyers and make the collecting more healthy.?god if it wasn,t for manship first .bringing it smack in the face of all of us and continuing to do so.would we all be as knowledgeable.i,ve learned something from him.nothing wrong with promoting our scene to genuine collectors who want to own the precious original 45,s in fanastic condition.who is the authority on our music ?no one on here.lets encourage collecting,and owning original 45,s and fook the bootleggers off.end of

spot George as usual

[Nsg]

£ +4K - WOW !!!

[purist]

You're right, I was getting my Bangla mixed up with indigenous peoples or something like it. It was when Butch jumped off the stage waving a tomahawk that I realised he said 'injun'. Mind you, that's no way to encourage dancers to move to Milton James, even if you've just splashed out £30 for a copy. Small wonder everyone sat cross-legged on The 100 Club dancefloor and chanted 'We Want Walter'.

 

He could always have played " How "  

- perhaps then Jack Hargreaves would have let us have a go on his peace pipe (dunno why folk go on about Bunty James on How !, personally, and bringing it back to N/S, I much preferred Marian Davies, who as we all know was also a member of The Ladybirds (she was the blonde one ) who as well as singing backing on many UK recording sessions did a version of Goin Out Of My Head on the first Benny Hill show. That version broadcast in 1969 might have been my first exposure to uptempo pop stompers, I wonder if Russ was also watching and that's where his ideas came from    

8minutes 18 seconds in>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnnhIT71hcU

Edited May 5, 2015 by purist

[solidhit]

Billboard reviewed Rita and the Tiaras in February of 1967.  Actually, there're quite a few items of interest in this issue:

 

 

[Pete S]

Billboard reviewed Rita and the Tiaras in February of 1967.  Actually, there're quite a few items of interest in this issue:

 

Great reading - Dana Valery, Hesitations etc, and heading for the Country Charts, Williams & Watson!

[Pete S]

This record is rare, why do people say it's not?  I've never had one - not saying thats the perfect barometer but I've had 'rarer' records

[Garethx]

I don't understand comments about 'the bubble bursting' in five or six years time. Is it wishful thinking? It's certainly not based on an empirical study of trends in collecting or even a basic grasp of economics.

 

That will never happen because classic records in great condition are a very finite resource. The market for these now extends far beyond a few towns in Northern England and is growing all the time.

 

I suspect we've all got crappy records in our collections that are difficult to sell. The internet has meant that there's a glut of the kind of titles we all picked up while learning about collecting. Mediocre, plentiful records have never been cheaper while the great records which are scarce have never more expensive. We may not like it but that's the way it's going to be from now on.

 

Why is anyone surprised by the figure achieved at auction by one of the world's foremost professional dealers for this record? It was never available cheaply except as a new release, never around in quantity, is a great example of its particular genre and is in great condition.

 

One thing I will say about it musically rather than as a commodity is that around the time I was prepared to buy one at around £200 (late 1980s) the tape vault version with the extra verse emerged and that really blows the original right out of the water. The 45 just sounds truncated and incomplete in comparison.

Edited May 6, 2015 by garethx

[solidhit]

Great reading - Dana Valery, Hesitations etc, and heading for the Country Charts, Williams & Watson!

 

And Del Reeves headed for the "R&B" charts.  Manual typesetter probably had no idea which artists belonged in which group.

But all those great records came out at the same time!   Jeanette Williams, Casualeers, Rita & Tiaras, Hesitations, Sam & Irridescents, Debonaires on Solid Hit! 

[Dobber]

the copy on t browns auction is a vg++ copy and is on £2500,so how come he has a mint promo on ebay currently on 170 quid,has he got a shit load of em? maybe he will use jm's for a bigger price on the next copy

? haha

[Jim G]

the copy on t browns auction is a vg++ copy and is on £2500,so how come he has a mint promo on ebay currently on 170 quid,has he got a shit load of em? maybe he will use jm's for a bigger price on the next copy

? haha

 

On close scrutiny it looks they are the same copies...

[Chris L]

Billboard reviewed Rita and the Tiaras in February of 1967.  Actually, there're quite a few items of interest in this issue:

 

Love those old Billboard sheets..........................who's up for nicking the Tardis and buying a load of records from then ?

[Chris L]

I don't understand comments about 'the bubble bursting' in five or six years time. Is it wishful thinking? It's certainly not based on an empirical study of trends in collecting or even a basic grasp of economics.

 

That will never happen because classic records in great condition are a very finite resource. The market for these now extends far beyond a few towns in Northern England and is growing all the time.

 

 

When someone says "That will never happen" you can be sure of one thing......................it will happen. 2 things will change the face of the record selling part of the soul scene. 1st, UK Soulies are getting older and older and cash in the bank will become more important than a vinyl collection, 2nd the Newbies coming along are quite content to own boots/re-issues.

[Garethx]

That's exactly the kind of generalisation I'd expect, flying in the face of all available evidence. Even if everyone who currently owns a Rita & The Tiaras decides to liquidate there is still a meaningful and significant market for it and other records of similar quality in the right condition. Maybe this particular auction result is the at the outlying end of the scale but I don't think it will again become a three figure record in the foreseeable future.

 

Chris, I'm 48 and was told in the mid 1980s by people of your generation that Northern collecting was effectively over. That simply wasn't the case then and is not the case now. 

[Jim G]

Tim Brown and Ebay sales pictures below. These are the same piece of vinyl offered for sale IMHO.

 

The with red cover is on Ebay

Edited May 16, 2015 by jim g

[Chris L]

That's exactly the kind of generalisation I'd expect, flying in the face of all available evidence. Even if everyone who currently owns a Rita & The Tiaras decides to liquidate there is still a meaningful and significant market for it and other records of similar quality in the right condition. Maybe this particular auction result is the at the outlying end of the scale but I don't think it will again become a three figure record in the foreseeable future.

 

Chris, I'm 48 and was told in the mid 1980s by people of your generation that Northern collecting was effectively over. That simply wasn't the case then and is not the case now. 

 

I guess time will tell............

[Garethx]

Yup.

[Guest Polyvelts]

 

 

 

A friend of mine who deals from Cleveland, Ohio recently sold a 300 cache of rare soul 45s that according to him a few years ago at least 70% have gone to the UK , 75% of it stayed in the US and of the remaining  25% at least half of that went to non UK Europe.

[Chalky]

A friend of mine who deals from Cleveland, Ohio recently sold a 300 cache of rare soul 45s that according to him a few years ago at least 70% have gone to the UK , 75% of it stayed in the US and of the remaining  25% at least half of that went to non UK Europe.

 

That probably more a reflection of the added postage costs from the US and the customs and post office charges here in the UK rather than a picture of a declining collecting scene here in the UK.  Many I know have given up on ebay preferring other outlets for their fix.  

[Garethx]

I certainly don't think the market in the UK is contracting either Chalky. Just more people worldwide feeling the pull of this incredible music too.

[Chalky]

I certainly don't think the market in the UK is contracting either Chalky. Just more people worldwide feeling the pull of this incredible music too.

 

I looked at a list of LP's the other day from the US and many were BIN for what they are worth and in some cases more.  I could get all those I was interested in cheaper off Discogs. 

 

Back on topic....there will always be a market for quality records like this one as it is a guaranteed floor packer and a DJ fail safe.  Not sure why we keep talking about them, another topic about the Tomangoe's just a few weeks after the last.  Is this the limit of peoples knowledge and/or imagination here?

[Guest]

Great record but 4k no to many so called djs with deep pockets bring back the days when you would travel many miles to hear those elusive tracks but this isn't one of them

[Chalky]

Great record but 4k no to many so called djs with deep pockets bring back the days when you would travel many miles to hear those elusive tracks but this isn't one of them

 

I doubt I would travel for any oldies night now.  I can get exactly the same within 30 minutes as I could with a 3 hour drive.

[Guest]

I doubt I would travel for any oldies night now.  I can get exactly the same within 30 minutes as I could with a 3 hour drive.

Yes another one played to death -

[MrsWoodsrules]

Just seen this on evil bay that's why I came over here.

Are these people mental?

No way is it worth 5k+ mint or otherwise.

I know it's mint, but it's not that rare is it?

What's going on?

[Milliontearsoul]

Soultheby's 45 !