Bootlegs "are They Rare ?

[Bossfourpart1]

Apologies if this has been covered before !

 

This is aimed at Records Bootleg'd  in  70ts,  . (when the scene was thriving and demand was high ).(60ts might be too early, 80ts too late  )

I have not got the JM guide as a reference so i do not know whether the numbers pressed were referenced   ? great or small 100's or 500's.

 

Anyone involved in these pressings could give a hint.

Were their pressing dates recorded ?

 

Do you think Bootlegs from those era's have any historical value ?

Do the look a like labelled boots have more value ? 

Whats the rarest boot ?

In the 80ts when i was looking through racks of records in local secondhand record shops there wasn't any guide as to what was original or boot hence i guess alot of people have boots in their collection.Sometimes you struck lucky and picked up a good tune. 

 

I guess alot of young soulies during the Peak scene years didn't have the funds to buy the originals. 

 

Just thinking out loud at 03.30am.

 

any info would be great .

 

cheers Frank

 

[Davenpete]

Used to collect the awful Soul Galore instrumentals as a joke.

Dx

[Steve Foran]

Rarest boot very good question? Anyone?

[Martyn Pitt]

"Lenny Curtis - Nothing can help you now" booted in the mid seventies, never had the pace or exposure at the time, wouldn't have thought it sold many copies back then.

 

In fact I have seen more real ones than boots ... I have even seen a boot of it coloured in (by hand) to make it look like a real one   

Edited April 22, 2015 by martyn pitt

[Kegsy]

Rarest boot very good question? Anyone?

 

The one that fits Jake the Peg's extra leg, its neither left or right

and had to be specially made.

[Guest SteveJohnston]

Diddle iddle iddle um

[Pete S]

"Lenny Curtis - Nothing can help you now" booted in the mid seventies, never had the pace or exposure at the time, wouldn't have thought it sold many copies back then.

 

In fact I have seen more real ones than boots ... I have even seen a boot of it coloured in (by hand) to make it look like a real one   

 

Have to disagree mate, was played for a few weeks at Wigan I loved it, booted in the same quantity as everything else at the time and was never a problem to get - until about 1997.  I sold an original at The Vic in 1981 for £5, I bought it back the following year for £5.

[Pete S]

"Lenny Curtis - Nothing can help you now" booted in the mid seventies, never had the pace or exposure at the time, wouldn't have thought it sold many copies back then.

 

In fact I have seen more real ones than boots ... I have even seen a boot of it coloured in (by hand) to make it look like a real one   

 

Also they'd have a job even when coloured in because they spelt Lenny as Lennie

[spot]

I think the Green Vinyl Salvadores is hard to come by, I got mine (As a Original) from Mr Koppell, gave it to Snowy along with a clear Vinyl Album with, I think but don't quote me, 3 versions of Gloria Jones - Tainted Love on one side and about 10 or 12 RCA tunes on the other, including Willie Hutch, Lorraine Chandler etc but it was a while ago and I am ageing rapidly so I could be wrong, he still has em so he could tell ya better.I need a lay down now after trying to remember that.  

Spot.   

p.s. By the way Martin you still owe me a £12 refund on that, you naughty boy and a fellow Goolie.

Edited April 22, 2015 by spot

[spot]

Have to disagree mate, was played for a few weeks at Wigan I loved it, booted in the same quantity as everything else at the time and was never a problem to get - until about 1997.  I sold an original at The Vic in 1981 for £5, I bought it back the following year for £5.

So really you just loaned him it Pete but interest free, of course.  

Spot.  

[Martyn Pitt]

Also they'd have a job even when coloured in because they spelt Lenny as Lennie

 

It is spelt Lenny on the one I have from the mid seventies, obvious boot though from the quality, or lack of, in the printing of the label.

[Guest sharmo 1]

Hi Frank this may be an interesting thread sir, it may pain a lot of people who collect original vinyl now to admit that like myself my early days of collecting were boots. Limited funds and access to original cheep originals meant that many youngsters had no choice other than to buy boots or reissue types things on Grapevine , destiny labels ect. also the attitude by most at the time was just to buy a record as one would buy a chart record . The lookalikes were a God send and things like Mel Britt , Salvadores ect were essential to fill a Woolworths 100 count single box { possibly with young hearts run free tucked discreetly at the back ! }. I still have all my boots and even though I collect originals have a second collection of boots as they emerge today . They make good playing material when I'm off my head so if they get damaged it's a boot of Gwen Owens not the original in my dj box that gets scratched. At the risk of being stoned to death by the ovo chaps I have to  say that boots especially of the seventies emergence are an important part of the northern soul scene as these are what got most of us interested in collecting . It would appear and is obvious that probably more people collect both the seventies pressings and the ones being done today than collect originals. There are a lot of people I know who only buy pressings for a variety of reasons , some older people are selling rare pieces and cashing in then buying a pressing to replace it. Some have bought a couple or three records a week slowly over the years and see no point in paying large amounts of cash for a £100.00 original when a seven quid pressing will do. This part of record collecting is embroidered into the fabric of the collecting northern soul scene and probably won't go away , In fact it may become more popular as we get older . The realisation that within the next ten years that most people on here and on the scene will either be dead or too old to carry on and surviving on low income , it would be pointless to carry on paying large amounts of money out and going without food or a pint. the young people on the scene will be too low in numbers to sustain the high record prices and older people still interested will have experienced the realisation that heading towards 70 or 80 years of age non but the rich will see any point in spending money on original vinyl . I for one don't want to end up in a bedsit surrounded by boxes of records and not having enough dough for a pint or a bag of weed. So yes for a lot of people there just a cheep record for others they are the product of demonastic criminals who have no interest in anything but money , which either side of the fence one resides in for many collectors they are important , best regards , Simon.

[Pete S]

It is spelt Lenny on the one I have from the mid seventies, obvious boot though from the quality, or lack of, in the printing of the label.

 

Martyn if it's spelt Lenny it's either real, or it's not the 70's one.  Trust me, I'm a Doctor.  Well not really.

[Martyn Pitt]

Martyn if it's spelt Lenny it's either real, or it's not the 70's one.  Trust me, I'm a Doctor.  Well not really.

 

It would have been bought in the mid seventies Pete, certainly not a recent (after 1992) purchase. I shall have to dig it out and have a closer look.

Edited April 22, 2015 by martyn pitt

[Pete S]

It would have been bought in the mid seventies Pete, certainly not a recent (after 1992) purchase. I shall have to dig it out and have a closer look.

 

No your alright mate, I apologise, it is Lennie but there's also a Lenny, I was thinking of Kenny Smith / Kenni Smith on GAR, doh!

[Jerry Hipkiss]

70's pressing...Monarch scratched matrix is delta 103691...:-)

 

[Guest sharmo 1]

LennyC.JPG70's pressing...Monarch scratched matrix is delta 103691...:-)

Hi all did you know it was also bootlegged twice in the Netherlands ? once on a four track 7 inch ep and once on end although it just says end at the top of the label and is not an obvious lookalike . Don't recall which spelling of Lenny / Lenie or what ever was used.

[Bossfourpart1]

Hi Frank this may be an interesting thread sir, it may pain a lot of people who collect original vinyl now to admit that like myself my early days of collecting were boots. Limited funds and access to original cheep originals meant that many youngsters had no choice other than to buy boots or reissue types things on Grapevine , destiny labels ect. also the attitude by most at the time was just to buy a record as one would buy a chart record . The lookalikes were a God send and things like Mel Britt , Salvadores ect were essential to fill a Woolworths 100 count single box { possibly with young hearts run free tucked discreetly at the back ! }. I still have all my boots and even though I collect originals have a second collection of boots as they emerge today . They make good playing material when I'm off my head so if they get damaged it's a boot of Gwen Owens not the original in my dj box that gets scratched. At the risk of being stoned to death by the ovo chaps I have to  say that boots especially of the seventies emergence are an important part of the northern soul scene as these are what got most of us interested in collecting . It would appear and is obvious that probably more people collect both the seventies pressings and the ones being done today than collect originals. There are a lot of people I know who only buy pressings for a variety of reasons , some older people are selling rare pieces and cashing in then buying a pressing to replace it. Some have bought a couple or three records a week slowly over the years and see no point in paying large amounts of cash for a £100.00 original when a seven quid pressing will do. This part of record collecting is embroidered into the fabric of the collecting northern soul scene and probably won't go away , In fact it may become more popular as we get older . The realisation that within the next ten years that most people on here and on the scene will either be dead or too old to carry on and surviving on low income , it would be pointless to carry on paying large amounts of money out and going without food or a pint. the young people on the scene will be too low in numbers to sustain the high record prices and older people still interested will have experienced the realisation that heading towards 70 or 80 years of age non but the rich will see any point in spending money on original vinyl . I for one don't want to end up in a bedsit surrounded by boxes of records and not having enough dough for a pint or a bag of weed. So yes for a lot of people there just a cheep record for others they are the product of demonastic criminals who have no interest in anything but money , which either side of the fence one resides in for many collectors they are important , best regards , Simon.

Hi Simon ,

                  thanks for the reply, yes I think this thread has some depth. It would seem that the "DNA" of a young soulie buying records would lean towards Bootlegs as they would have more access to them locally. 

To be honest i can still remember where i bought most of my tunes ! "sad".

 

In amongst those early days of searching i actually found an original mint copy of Sam Dees -Lonely FYB- SS7 in amongst loads of mint pressings and I put it back as i thought it was a boot !!  AAAHHH.. 

 

I guess like it or not they are part of the scene and gave Soulies a piece of vinyl to take home.

 

all the best Frank

Edited July 11, 2015 by Bossfourpart1

[Mal C]

I love the seventies bootlegs, they are great to collect, as for the rare ones, there are a few, I have to say I'd have a multi coloured sam fletcher over a real one any day.,,, there is another from that batch, been discussed loads before.,, Chalkey is up on the info on those...

Mal

[Bossfourpart1]

When did the Joe Mathews   on Koolkat get pressed ?  Year ?

 

Also , unissued material whether from master tapes or from an acetate , if these are not licensed are they not Boots ?

or is this falling into another legal domain ?

Giving good unheard tunes exposure fuels the scene doesn't it.

 

I have a copy of Peanut duck - on Joker from the 80ts  which has been mentioned on here before..which i really like, how many of these were done ? .

 

Does anyone recall what was the first tune to be booted ?

[Pete S]

When did the Joe Mathews   on Koolkat get pressed ?  Year ?

 

Also , unissued material whether from master tapes or from an acetate , if these are not licensed are they not Boots ?

or is this falling into another legal domain ?

Giving good unheard tunes exposure fuels the scene doesn't it.

 

I have a copy of Peanut duck - on Joker from the 80ts  which has been mentioned on here before..which i really like, how many of these were done ? .

 

Does anyone recall what was the first tune to be booted ?

 

Joe Matthews was done in late 1977.

Peanut Duck - must have been at least 1000 of those done.  Two separate pressings, maybe more.

The first boots I know of are things like The Poets She Blew A Good Thing on Old Soul, a few things on the Green Light label, Mitch Ryder You Get Your Kicks, Jimmy Thomas Beautiful Night etc and of course all the Soul Sounds releases.

[Winsford Soul]

Hi Frank this may be an interesting thread sir, it may pain a lot of people who collect original vinyl now to admit that like myself my early days of collecting were boots. Limited funds and access to original cheep originals meant that many youngsters had no choice other than to buy boots or reissue types things on Grapevine , destiny labels ect. also the attitude by most at the time was just to buy a record as one would buy a chart record . The lookalikes were a God send and things like Mel Britt , Salvadores ect were essential to fill a Woolworths 100 count single box { possibly with young hearts run free tucked discreetly at the back ! }. I still have all my boots and even though I collect originals have a second collection of boots as they emerge today . They make good playing material when I'm off my head so if they get damaged it's a boot of Gwen Owens not the original in my dj box that gets scratched. At the risk of being stoned to death by the ovo chaps I have to  say that boots especially of the seventies emergence are an important part of the northern soul scene as these are what got most of us interested in collecting . It would appear and is obvious that probably more people collect both the seventies pressings and the ones being done today than collect originals. There are a lot of people I know who only buy pressings for a variety of reasons , some older people are selling rare pieces and cashing in then buying a pressing to replace it. Some have bought a couple or three records a week slowly over the years and see no point in paying large amounts of cash for a £100.00 original when a seven quid pressing will do. This part of record collecting is embroidered into the fabric of the collecting northern soul scene and probably won't go away , In fact it may become more popular as we get older . The realisation that within the next ten years that most people on here and on the scene will either be dead or too old to carry on and surviving on low income , it would be pointless to carry on paying large amounts of money out and going without food or a pint. the young people on the scene will be too low in numbers to sustain the high record prices and older people still interested will have experienced the realisation that heading towards 70 or 80 years of age non but the rich will see any point in spending money on original vinyl . I for one don't want to end up in a bedsit surrounded by boxes of records and not having enough dough for a pint or a bag of weed. So yes for a lot of people there just a cheep record for others they are the product of demonastic criminals who have no interest in anything but money , which either side of the fence one resides in for many collectors they are important , best regards , Simon.

Simon. I ,ve got a bag of weed you can have for your records mate    Hope your well my friend

 

Steve

[Guest sharmo 1]

Simon. I ,ve got a bag of weed you can have for your records mate    Hope your well my friend

 

Steve

High Steve how are you sir ? out of interest how big is this bag of weed ? regards Mr.Nice,

[Winsford Soul]

High Steve how are you sir ? out of interest how big is this bag of weed ? regards Mr.Nice,

It's a splifflingly large one sir. But alas it will have gone up in smoke by the time we next meet up. ... I'm very well thank you.

Steve

[Guest sharmo 1]

It's a splifflingly large one sir. But alas it will have gone up in smoke by the time we next meet up. ... I'm very well thank you.

Steve

I'll order you a large pizza and ice cream sir .

[Bossfourpart1]

Joe Matthews was done in late 1977.

Peanut Duck - must have been at least 1000 of those done.  Two separate pressings, maybe more.

The first boots I know of are things like The Poets She Blew A Good Thing on Old Soul, a few things on the Green Light label, Mitch Ryder You Get Your Kicks, Jimmy Thomas Beautiful Night etc and of course all the Soul Sounds releases.

Thanks Pete,

                     I have a few Green light label pieces  and the SoulSounds releases which were picked up in the early 80ts, so makes sense being pressed earlier .

Does anyone on here actually have a definitive list of these boot releases ?

 

Like it not these boots are part of the early scene and any details that have not been recorded "numbers released when ?how many"  could be captured here for the first time.

Today new Boot pressing seems to be a daily occurance!  At least the early ones have some history to those early days...

The Lainie Hill on Newvoice always makes me smile with the bubbles under the label !!

I do have a couple of Demand labelled tunes -sensitive mind and a couple of others.

Could it be that some original tunes out number the early Bootlegs ?

 

Perhaps one day when interest in these early Boots picks up  this topic may become of interest again.

(Unless some canny Soulies out there are already collecting them on the quiet).

 

KFT   Frank

Edited April 25, 2015 by Bossfourpart1