Hem Label, And The Cashmeres

[Guest Blueimage]

I'm sure that both the group & label have been discussed here numerous times. That being said, I had a few thoughts, and wondered what you all could add to it.

 

1- The label name. I've not yet been told exactly why "HEM" was choosen, but I have a running theory. Herb Cohen was involved with many a label connection between DC and Atlantic/Atlantic distribution, which HEM had. Herco was his publishing, so he was clearly involved with this release. He was also personnel manager at Quality Music (later Waxies Maxies), operating as right hand to owner Max Silverman. Then in 1963, Max made Herb partner, with another new partner added as well.....Gene Levy. (Quality Music was the DC locale where the Ertegun brothers discovered the music that would become the basis for founding Atlantic Records in NYC.) All this is pretty cut and dry. So then, why not theorize that HEM could have stood for "Herb Cohen, Eugene Levy, Max Silverman. Sound likely? This been discussed here before?

 

2- A wierd coincidence. We know that the DC area Cashmeres released records on HEM, Hubba Hubba, and Ninandy, based on the tie to Eddie Jefferson. We already established the tie to Atlantic and NYC. Ok, so there is a very rare label called Frandy that released a few groups, including the earliest record by Herb Feemster (Peaches and Herb). The labels for the Frandy's are the exact same orange stock as the HEM. The Frandy's have Atlantic distribution out of NYC, just like the HEMs. The Herb Feemster cut was also Herb Cohen related, with Herco publishing, (and Eddie Singleton + Raynoma Gordy involvement). Herb F. often discussed how he worked at Quality Music at the time. So here's the wierd part. The other Frandy is by the "Ernie Kelley Combo", and the other Cashmeres from Detroit (right?) featured Ernie Kelley. So maybe I'm offbase here, but is this just a wierd coincidence?

 

3- Anyone able to add any deeper history of the group, or the HEM label in general? (other than just the discography featuring the following:

1000 The Cashmeres - Show Stopper / Don't Let the Door Hit You In The Back
1001 Lawrence and the Arabians - Ooh Baby / Coincidence
1002 Lawrence and the Arabians - Money / I'll try Harder
1003 The Epsilons - It's All Right / Mind In A Bind

 

Thanks!

Edited April 20, 2015 by Blueimage

[Blackpoolsoul]

On 20/04/2015 at 04:18, Blueimage said:

I'm sure that both the group & label have been discussed here numerous times. That being said, I had a few thoughts, and wondered what you all could add to it.

 

1- The label name. I've not yet been told exactly why "HEM" was choosen, but I have a running theory. Herb Cohen was involved with many a label connection between DC and Atlantic/Atlantic distribution, which HEM had. Herco was his publishing, so he was clearly involved with this release. He was also personnel manager at Quality Music (later Waxies Maxies), operating as right hand to owner Max Silverman. Then in 1963, Max made Herb partner, with another new partner added as well.....Gene Levy. (Quality Music was the DC locale where the Ertegun brothers discovered the music that would become the basis for founding Atlantic Records in NYC.) All this is pretty cut and dry. So then, why not theorize that HEM could have stood for "Herb Cohen, Eugene Levy, Max Silverman. Sound likely? This been discussed here before?

 

2- A wierd coincidence. We know that the DC area Cashmeres released records on HEM, Hubba Hubba, and Ninandy, based on the tie to Eddie Jefferson. We already established the tie to Atlantic and NYC. Ok, so there is a very rare label called Frandy that released a few groups, including the earliest record by Herb Feemster (Peaches and Herb). The labels for the Frandy's are the exact same orange stock as the HEM. The Frandy's have Atlantic distribution out of NYC, just like the HEMs. The Herb Feemster cut was also Herb Cohen related, with Herco publishing, (and Eddie Singleton + Raynoma Gordy involvement). Herb F. often discussed how he worked at Quality Music at the time. So here's the wierd part. The other Frandy is by the "Ernie Kelley Combo", and the other Cashmeres from Detroit (right?) featured Ernie Kelley. So maybe I'm offbase here, but is this just a wierd coincidence?

 

3- Anyone able to add any deeper history of the group, or the HEM label in general? (other than just the discography featuring the following:

1000 The Cashmeres - Show Stopper / Don't Let the Door Hit You In The Back
1001 Lawrence and the Arabians - Ooh Baby / Coincidence
1002 Lawrence and the Arabians - Money / I'll try Harder
1003 The Epsilons - It's All Right / Mind In A Bind

 

Thanks!

This article was never replied to and I think it should be re-visited (hopefully), The Cashmeres here are from Brooklyn and appear not to be connected at all

https://doo-wop.blogg.org/the-cashmeres-2-a116517972

[Simon T]

[Blackpoolsoul]

41 minutes ago, Simon T said:

That's just teasing us

The image shows 4 guys and the label shows 3 and what a title and tune that is !!!! B side of Showstopper

Thanks so far can you expand a little please, you are making me a happy anorak, I read somewhere ? that Eddie Gibbs and Don Edwards were once members

Edited May 13, 2020 by Blackpoolsoul

[Simon T]

1 hour ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

That's just teasing us

The image shows 4 guys and the label shows 3 and what a title and tune that is !!!! B side of Showstopper

Thanks so far can you expand a little please, you are making me a happy anorak, I read somewhere ? that Eddie Gibbs and Don Edwards were once members

That's the Cashmeres of HEM fame & the  one sided acetate is a different take of the HEM release.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Simon T

[Blackpoolsoul]

29 minutes ago, Simon T said:

That's the Cashmeres of HEM fame & the  one sided acetate is a different take of the HEM release.

Exactly which is why I asked about the 3 / 4 members and different members

Also Steve Charles and The Statics is intriguing

[Simon T]

to be honest i can't remember ever reading anything definitive about the Cashmeres, members etc. Another mystery. Why is the title on the release DON'T LTDHYB, who knows?

[Joesoap]

That picture is no way from the time of the record's release, though (1965). Their clothes are 1980s and the guys look to be in their 40-50s. Interesting that they kept going.

[Still Diggin]

13 hours ago, Joesoap said:

That picture is no way from the time of the record's release, though (1965). Their clothes are 1980s and the guys look to be in their 40-50s. Interesting that they kept going.

So why would they have to be in their twenties or thirties to cut this 45? they could well of been in doo wop or early transional groups prior to that, most groups or artists end their time singing at a ripe old age.  If you key in 60's mens suits on the net I think you will find many almost identical to the ones they are wearing

[Joesoap]

Sorry, but the cut and styling of their clothes is not from the 1960s.  Size of the lapels and collars, the fit of their suits, the cut of the double breasted jacket on the left all look late 70s or 1980s, definitely not 1960s.

There were at least two 50s /doo-wop groups called the Cashmeres but seem unconnected to the group who did 'Showstopper'.  These guys for example. They'd have to have aged a lot in 10 years for that to be a pic of them in 1965!

[Chalky]

There was half a dozen groups either called the Cashmeres or had cashmeres in the group name.

The one we are concerned with (Hubba Hubba, HEM and Ninandy artists) had Eddie Jefferson (Jeff on the acetate), Robert Rennie and as also stated on the label Brown and Busby.

Robb K on Soulful Detroit said "Eddie Gibbs and Don Edwards were also members of the group (I believe, before Eddie Jefferson joined?" That would make 6 members at various points in the brief history of the group, not saying at the same time though.

What is the source of the photo?

Edited May 17, 2020 by Chalky

[Michael V]

39 minutes ago, Joesoap said:

Sorry, but the cut and styling of their clothes is not from the 1960s.  Size of the lapels and collars, the fit of their suits, the cut of the double breasted jacket on the left all look late 70s or 1980s, definitely not 1960s.

There were at least two 50s /doo-wop groups called the Cashmeres but seem unconnected to the group who did 'Showstopper'.  These guys for example. They'd have to have aged a lot in 10 years for that to be a pic of them in 1965!

Yes-these Cashmeres were from Atlanta,Georgia -definitely not the same group.This is the 1956 French EP they shared with the Platters,who are pictured on the front cover of this EP (this is the back) which sold well as the Platters were then at their peak worldwide.Interestingly, the Cashmeres' lead singer at this time was Northern/Deep Soul hero the great Grover Mitchell (Take Your Time And Love Me etc) then under his real name Grover Mincy but the photo shows the 1954/5 line-up and the tracks are from 1955 too.

[Still Diggin]

54 minutes ago, Joesoap said:

Sorry, but the cut and styling of their clothes is not from the 1960s.  Size of the lapels and collars, the fit of their suits, the cut of the double breasted jacket on the left all look late 70s or 1980s, definitely not 1960s.

There were at least two 50s /doo-wop groups called the Cashmeres but seem unconnected to the group who did 'Showstopper'.  These guys for example. They'd have to have aged a lot in 10 years for that to be a pic of them in 1965!

You still seem to think they should all be young, I fail to see why..Besides does the photo above have a proven connection to the group on Hem?.

[Chalky]

Cashmeres on Mercury were a mid 50s vocal group so by the 60s would have been at least nearer 30.

Eddie Jefferson if its the Eddie Jefferson linked on discogs and yes before anyone pipes up I know discogs is user entered and often wrong) was born in 1918 so he would have been knocking on a bit come the mid 60s.  I don't think it is him and discogs IS wrong.  I have read Eddie is the same one. who recorded for Stax and Goldwax.

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by Chalky

[Joesoap]

I have no idea how old they were when they made 'Showstopper'. Do you? I was just pointing out that the original picture on this thread does not seem to be contemporary to the release on Hem. I've said why I think that.

I don't know which picture you're referring to in your second sentence. I'm saying the picture on the French EP isn't the Hem group . No idea whether the picture originally under discussion is them or not.

[Chalky]

1 minute ago, Joesoap said:

I have no idea how old they were when they made 'Showstopper'. Do you? I was just pointing out that the original picture on this thread does not seem to be contemporary to the release on Hem. I've said why I think that.

I don't know which picture you're referring to in your second sentence. I'm saying the picture on the French EP isn't the Hem group . No idea whether the picture originally under discussion is them or not.

The picture Simon posted....

[Joesoap]

4 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Cashmeres on Mercury were a mid 50s vocal group so by the 60s would have been at least nearer 30.

Eddie Jefferson if its the Eddie Jefferson linked on discogs 9and yes before anyone pipes up I know discogs is user entered and often wrong) was born in 1918 so he would have been knocking on a bit come the mid 60s.  

 

That'll be the jazz vocalist Eddie Jefferson. Doubt it's him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Jefferson

[Blackpoolsoul]

20 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Cashmeres on Mercury were a mid 50s vocal group so by the 60s would have been at least nearer 30.

Eddie Jefferson if its the Eddie Jefferson linked on discogs and yes before anyone pipes up I know discogs is user entered and often wrong) was born in 1918 so he would have been knocking on a bit come the mid 60s.  I don't think it is him and discogs IS wrong.  I have read Eddie is the same one. who recorded for Stax and Goldwax.

 

It appears that it is not just Discogs and Freddie Perren (in) was from Washington DC ?

https://rateyourmusic.com/artist/eddie_jefferson

Edited May 17, 2020 by Blackpoolsoul

[Joesoap]

Regarding the Stax / Goldwax Eddie Jefferson, I notice a couple of his relatives have commented under this recently if someone wants to try contacting them:

 

[Chalky]

34 minutes ago, Joesoap said:

That'll be the jazz vocalist Eddie Jefferson. Doubt it's him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Jefferson

yes I know, that's who discogs has our Eddie linked to

[Simon T]

9 hours ago, Chalky said:

What is the source of the photo?

the 1st with the printed cashmeres at top came of the WWW around 2003, i think.

the second came from a load of artist promotional photos Rob Thomas had - the cashmeres is written in black marker pen.

 

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by Simon T

[Still Diggin]

12 minutes ago, Simon T said:

the 1st with the printed cashmeres at top came of the WWW around 2003, i think.

the second came from a load of artist promotional photos Rob Thomas had - the cashmeres is written in black marker pen.

the photo was taken in the 70's not 60's.

 

i'm now thinking  the second photo looks early seventies to me, so perhaps the period when they were on hubba hubba or Ninandy. Many group acts up to and before that period are mostly seen with the bow tie and collar in suit, however there is a great clip of the Temps on youtube from the sixtees with similar wide collars. Never thought eightees ,the guitar was the giverway, not that folks in the industry did not cherish them, just not great in a promo picture. I thought to start with it could have been from the sixtees , but obviusly wrong.Thanks for that.

Andy

[Simon T]

27 minutes ago, Still Diggin said:

i'm now thinking  the second photo looks early seventies to me, so perhaps the period when they were on hubba hubba or Ninandy. Many group acts up to and before that period are mostly seen with the bow tie and collar in suit, however there is a great clip of the Temps on youtube from the sixtees with similar wide collars. Never thought eightees ,the guitar was the giverway, not that folks in the industry did not cherish them, just not great in a promo picture. I thought to start with it could have been from the sixtees , but obviusly wrong.Thanks for that.

Andy

iM going to change my mind again and admit defeat on this one. If it was the 70's their collars would be more 'harry hill' and they'd be maybe sporting an 'Afro', Trammps style?

[Still Diggin]

5 minutes ago, Simon T said:

iM going to change my mind again and admit defeat on this one. If it was the 70's their collars would be more 'harry hill' and they'd be maybe sporting an 'Afro', Trammps style?

Yes, I can see your school of thought with that, however the 'Afro' black and proud hair styles never really kicked in till 72/73, hense me thinking the photo was possibly 70/71 no later. As you say it could defeat us all.

[Sebastian]

11 hours ago, Still Diggin said:

i'm now thinking the second photo looks early seventies to me, so perhaps the period when they were on hubba hubba or Ninandy. 

The 45 on Ninandy is from 1968.

The 45 on Hem is from 1966 (both songs copyrighted in October '66.).

The 45 on Hubba Hubba is noted as being from 1965 in discographies, certainly earlier than 1968 in any case.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Sebastian

[Sebastian]

On 13/05/2020 at 19:40, Blackpoolsoul said:

Also Steve Charles and The Statics is intriguing

Regarding the "Steve Charles And The Statics" credit on the acetate, there are two mentions of that group in these two Frederick, Maryland newspapers from July 15, 1966 and July 23, 1966. If anyone of you has got a subscription to newspapers.com (I don't) you'll be able to retrieve the info:

https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/7674216/

https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/7681268/

[Still Diggin]

11 hours ago, Sebastian said:

The 45 on Ninandy is from 1968.

The 45 on Hem is from 1966 (both songs copyrighted in October '66.).

The 45 on Hubba Hubba is noted as being from 1965 in discographies, certainly earlier than 1968 in any case.

Sorry Sebastian, I managed to get the Cashmeres on Rubbertown (different group) accredited to that 1970 date I had down, then confused that with the hubba hubba thing. And you are correct regarding the Ninandy 45, still have that somewhere, will give it another listen as that sounded a tad later than 68.

[Dave2]

The guy in the photo has a Global guitar Les Paul copy.  Never heard of Global guitars, so I googled it.  They were a budget brand based in Illinois importing from Taiwan and Korea, aimed at American household catalogue market (SEARS, KAY, etc).  Impossible to say the actual year, but the ‘script’ logo (not a round globe, or block logo on the headstock) points to a later period: late 70’s, early 80’s.

I would therefore say the photo was taken after 1978.  Possibly early 80’s.

[Still Diggin]

On 27/05/2020 at 17:14, dave2 said:

The guy in the photo has a Global guitar Les Paul copy.  Never heard of Global guitars, so I googled it.  They were a budget brand based in Illinois importing from Taiwan and Korea, aimed at American household catalogue market (SEARS, KAY, etc).  Impossible to say the actual year, but the ‘script’ logo (not a round globe, or block logo on the headstock) points to a later period: late 70’s, early 80’s.

I would therefore say the photo was taken after 1978.  Possibly early 80’s.

Good detective work sir, I thought it was an old Gibson without really checking, so it looks as if I was wrong. It still looks a really dated style caption for later than 78, though maybe just set up to look that way to capture their favored period. However as some one else mentioned if it was a photo from the 80's then the guy holding the guitar would have been very young in 1965 asuming it is the Cashmeres on Hem.

[Kev Cane]

On 18/05/2020 at 08:53, Sebastian said:

The 45 on Ninandy is from 1968.

The 45 on Hem is from 1966 (both songs copyrighted in October '66.).

The 45 on Hubba Hubba is noted as being from 1965 in discographies, certainly earlier than 1968 in any case.

Yep, "Ain't no coming back" defo sounds earlier than the inferior (imho) "Showstopper/Door" 

Kev 

[Kenb]

regarding "Steve Charles And The Statics"

they were formally 'Steve Charles and the Abstracts' - don't know why the name change

[Blackpoolsoul]

On 17/05/2020 at 13:26, Chalky said:

yes I know, that's who discogs has our Eddie linked to

Karl I have found a connection Jessie Godwin and that might just help clarify more about Mr E. H. Jefferson if someone can fill in some gaps

Interesting release this one and seems to be another shooting up in value , now the "dealers" have caught on. Dave Thorley loaded the video in 2013 so he might have some more info ?

1984, I don't think so

Again surprised, but not all that because Eddie had a UK release that know one knows about him

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by Blackpoolsoul