Betty Swanne C/u For Sale £2,250

[Dysonsoul]

  The words deciet, greed amongst other alleged means and  conduct  supposedly used in the sale and promoting of  more recent vinyl finds.... Really ! I  thought i would at least pass on how this 45 originally came about as my name is in the mix.... but firstly do people really think that any buyer wouldn't see a 45 before a deal was done ...                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Anways for what it's worth, i was introduced to this record by  Guy Hennigan who played it at a soul night around 20 years ago - he ended his set with it and i was next up. He asked me if i knew it which i didn't. Making a mental note of it i tried to find it for over 10 years stateside without any luck, meanwhile i ran segments of info by all the folk i know in the U.K not one had heard, seen or had it before. Then a mate who lives local to where the 45 originates found a copy around 10 years ago which is the copy i have been playing, he then found 3 more which were sold on.

 To answer a few posts , the copy in question up for sale is not my copy ( i deal in soul 45's why would it be ? i collect soul 45's why would i wanna sell my copy ? )  Would i have listed it up for sale on a list no - but hey the seller of this particular copy works records in the way that is best for his company - maybe the reaction from posters on this thread  is why many record deals are done in the back ground ? whoever you are ockers,surfy jim g etc. ? why not at least put a name to your posts and maybe run a few examples of some of your recent discoveries.... 

 The cover up name of Bettye Swann came from it's similarity musically to "Make Me Yours" nothing to do with the vocal comparison, the Lorraine Rudolph name came from a mate i played it down the phone .

  To compare it to hey day records is ridiculous, it's not a straight northern record ... then again what is? Quite frankly if these kind of records are regarded as sub standard, ordinary or even like a Stax/Atlantic b side ( mm.. two of the most prolific black music related labels) then it's probably a blessing that those thinking this don't venture out to venues trying out more recent finds....

 Irrespective of price tag i struggle to figure out what is poor about the record, vocally it's great, the song is fine and the backing track is infectious.....That said everyone  likes different stuff.

[Guest ruppy]

Its legendary in the Carolinas as hardly anyone there has it. Known copies are mostly over here…First heard this mid 90s, Sam had a copy and sold it….very hard record.

yes  Steve ,I got Sam that copy was shocked when he sold it, i think he regrets it today,

[Markw]

It's hardly surprising that some don't venture any further than their armchairs when 45's like this are lauded as 'great' new discovery's . Not any where near the same league as the true 'greats' of NS history .

      Not THAT old "chestnut, please???...................

[Mike]

ain't the trick to post your own view of any track being discussed , respect others views and thats that

 

2 or 3 day drawn out slug fests over the musical qualities of just one track is never going to go well

 

have you say and move on..... now! 

[Steve G]

Looks like it may have been sold as it is no longer on the site……Good, excellent soul record….I am moving on   

[Dobber]

that tune is like trying to make a square fit in a round hole,you gonna have to keep hitting that thing to make it fit,but it will never be a easy fit.

[Quinvy]

Phil, i,am not saying its as good as this or that,the point is it a great new 45 to the rare Nighter scene goes,down well every where myself,Butch ,Andy ,& Steve play it,and has a lot of miles in it,

 

Now i aint going to slag off the Jimmy bo hornes of this world a great oldie it  is  ,but if i turned up a a rare nighter every week

having to listen to Jimmy bo horne it would piss me right off,not just me but all the rare Nighter scene crowd who travel far a field to listen to something new

 

now as a dj who does both upfront  and oldies Allnighters , i know what to play and listen to at both, allnighters different tastes for different people,

 

and regardless of the price its up for its what the buyers are prepared to pay for a 45

 

funny enough one of my discovery,s from 14 year ago is on ebay at the moment,Dynamics Lonely man on Dyno

first copy ever to come up for sale on ebay,now a lot of you on here who dont do the rare  nighter scene wont know it

you will in ten mins when you listen to the sound clip.a good few of you Like pete,will say its trash,your opinion

 

but i tell you this it will fetch over $5000 us ,that proves there is a demand for new tunes ,and people who appreciate

rare 45s from all over the world will pay what ever to get a copy of rare 45s they are chasing

 

and nice to know the rare scene is healthy and alive,and may it continue

Mick there's no sound clip so we can't comment.

No bids yet.

[George M]

...

Edited April 13, 2015 by George M

[Amsterdam Russ]

Mick there's no sound clip so we can't comment.

No bids yet.

Here you go...

 

[Jordirip]

Here you go...

 

 

John Weston was the first to play it to my ears. Fantastic tune.

[Quinvy]

Here you go...

 

Many Thanks 

Very nice record, but hardly a floor packer? 

[Woodbutcher]

Here you go...

 

 

Stick it on at 78 rpm , might turn it from a funeral dirge into a nice uptempo girlie dancer ... 

[Ted Massey]

you have to be in the venue to get the vibe with this, sounds fantastic over a big system

[Dobber]

Stick it on at 78 rpm , might turn it from a funeral dirge into a nice uptempo girlie dancer ... 

haha..very good!

[Woodbutcher]

Which venue's that  Ted ... ? , a crematorium ... 

Edited April 11, 2015 by WoodButcher

[Ted Massey]

No point  

[Pete S]

It's quite nice but don't think I'd play it or want to hear it at a venue

[KevH]

Mick there's no sound clip so we can't comment.

No bids yet.

 

Phil,its on youtube.

[Quinvy]

Phil,its on youtube.

Someone has put it up on here thanks Kev.

[arnie j]

each to their own and all that but i cant believe people are slagging off the dynamics lonely man ! its a fookin incredible piece of soul music,not northern i know but its drenched in pure soul in my opinion

jason

[Guest the fifer]

I like both tracks. As to their perceived value? Can't see it myself.

 

Derek

[Pete S]

each to their own and all that but i cant believe people are slagging off the dynamics lonely man ! its a fookin incredible piece of soul music,not northern i know but its drenched in pure soul in my opinion

jason

 

No but I only ever look at things from a Northern perspective if people say they are being played 'out'

[Guest ruppy]

I think Pete,and Phil ,you deffo need to get out more    

[Chalky]

No but I only ever look at things from a Northern perspective if people say they are being played 'out'

 

Think too many view records from a straight down the middle "Northern" prospective, compare them to classics if you like when in theory the all-nighter scene hasn't been northern for a long long time.  It is a mix of everything, a real melting pot of styles and tempos.  Not everything will please everyone, it never has and nor will ones taste be catered for all night or even for the large majority of the night but it is the diversity that has contributed to the longevity and health of the scene.

[Pete S]

Think too many view records from a straight down the middle "Northern" prospective, compare them to classics if you like when in theory the all-nighter scene hasn't been northern for a long long time.  It is a mix of everything, a real melting pot of styles and tempos.  Not everything will please everyone, it never has and nor will ones taste be catered for all night or even for the large majority of the night but it is the diversity that has contributed to the longevity and health of the scene.

 

A diversity which saw the numbers of people attending allnighters drop by over 50% when Modern Soul was introduced big time at the end of the 70's

[Ted Massey]

Mick played Betty Swan last night sounded brill and filled the floor

[Steve G]

Bettye Swann and Dynamics both spun at Soul Essence, OK it's not a northern soul niter, but these aren't old style northern soul records. Both had a good reaction. 

[Chalky]

A diversity which saw the numbers of people attending allnighters drop by over 50% when Modern Soul was introduced big time at the end of the 70's

 

And the scene has probably been better for it and without them, I know I enjoy a range of styles and tempos. 

[pow wow mik]

That's bang on. From an outsider's (to the traditional northern scene) point of view, its the variety of styles and tempos of soul that has evolved over the last 20 years or so that makes the scene appealing. I dont think that I'm the only one who feels like that.

for us who dont have a northern soul past, but love music and dancing - this is approaching the soul scene we dreamed of.

theres a whole massive and profitable scene dedicated to those who only want to hear that typical northern soul sound ; seems strangely mean spirited therefore to constantly criticise those who try to operate with a more broad minded outlook.

comparing every track you hear to the best tracks ever made is a sign of stagnating musical taste and leads to that fate which tends to befall many, particularly old, people - only ever listening to a pool of a few hundred 'classics'. You should be careful about that. If every track has to be a epic mind blowing anthem, then youre not understanding music...certainly not music in a underground nightclub context. That's the sort of attitude average folks take into a cheesy 80s bar or wherever they go.

I'm not particularly in love with these records mentioned - theyre simply not my prefered type of sound, but I can hear the quality in them. But regardless, if people didnt find them and play them out, no one would ever hear them, is that really what you want? Would you want a stax b side to have never been heard?

Its not about harping on about the same tunes infinitely - leave that to mainstream radio listeners - or dwelling on one specific style - its about hearing everything...as much as possible - and picking out moments you love. Sometimes its an anthem you'll take to your grave, sometimes its the novelty of something you havent heard before, sometimes its just a good tune, sometimes a not so good tune...its all part of a vibrant scene.

the alternative is classics nights...and excuse me but fuck that

Edited April 12, 2015 by pow wow mik

[Pete S]

for us who dont have a northern soul past, 

 

You see that is it in one, which is why you can never understand where I'm coming from!

[KevH]

Mick played Betty Swan last night sounded brill and filled the floor

 

Well i must say it did sound better out. Don't think Mick was prepared to let it be anything else.!! Like i said earlier - a grower.

[Garethx]

It started as a soul scene.

 

The years of mass popularity as Wigan, St. Ives etc. and the kind of sounds which could go massive there are the exception rather than the norm. If people want to characterise the entire scene through that prism fair enough but it would be a skewed analysis.

 

I understand this copy was at one time in the possession of Soul Sam. If you look at Sam's playlists from the so-called Classic Era I'm sure there are lots of sounds which he played covered up between 76-79 which make him cringe now (alongside some great records too of course).

 

This record would have fitted right in with the Mecca 'last hour' ethos of 74-76—in a lot of ways it's musically very similar to things like Delilah Moore, Lyn Vernado and dozens of others—so it's not like it's a completely alien sound which a load of interlopers are trying to graft onto Northern Soul—far from it in fact.

 

Vocally it's really good. A proper soul record at least. Judging it by a set of criteria which basically set the parameters to 'would it have been massive at Wigan precisely 40 years ago' is pointless.

[Chalky]

You see that is it in one, which is why you can never understand where I'm coming from!

 

I fully understand where you are coming from but the all-nighter scene moved on from that view decades ago.  That is why it is pointless even debating the merits of records like this with the likes of those on this topic who continually compare records to those of the mid 70's or who are not or haven't been involved in the all-nighter scene for some time.  I get that some don't have a broad spectrum of taste and like a particular record but it would seem some don't understand that others have a varied tastes.

[Pete S]

 

 

Vocally it's really good. A proper soul record at least. Judging it by a set of criteria which basically set the parameters to 'would it have been massive at Wigan precisely 40 years ago' is pointless.

 

You know those people who won't watch football on Sky nowadays because it's just not like how it was in the 60's and 70's?

[Pete S]

I fully understand where you are coming from but the all-nighter scene moved on from that view decades ago.  That is why it is pointless even debating the merits of records like this with the likes of those on this topic who continually compare records to those of the mid 70's or who are not or haven't been involved in the all-nighter scene for some time.  I get that some don't have a broad spectrum of taste and like a particular record but it would seem some don't understand that others have a varied tastes.

 

No I understand that people have varied tastes, Jesus Chalky if you ever hear any of my mixed genre podcasts, I just don't, never have, and never will like, other styles of music which are plainly not "Northern Soul" being played at "Northern Soul" venues, you might as well play country and western...oh hang on...

[pow wow mik]

You see that is it in one, which is why you can never understand where I'm coming from!

yes but I have A past Pete, covering everything from jazz to jungle; and that past had its soundtrack, its anthems and its good times.

but I'm not stuck in it, or fixated on the music that went with it.

As great as anything ever is I'm just hungry for something new.

[Chalky]

No I understand that people have varied tastes, Jesus Chalky if you ever hear any of my mixed genre podcasts, I just don't, never have, and never will like, other styles of music which are plainly not "Northern Soul" being played at "Northern Soul" venues, you might as well play country and western...oh hang on...

 

But these are played at "Northern Soul" venues so it must make them Northern Soul.  As I said pretty pointless debating this.

[KevH]

But these are played at "Northern Soul" venues so it must make them Northern Soul.  As I said pretty pointless debating this.

 

As an aside Chalky,"Tastes sour don't it" ,Barbara Jean English (?),was played in the freestyle room,a similar feel to BS.

[Chalky]

As an aside Chalky,"Tastes sour don't it" ,Barbara Jean English (?),was played in the freestyle room,a similar feel to BS.

 

Do you think so?  I have the male and female take of it, wouldn't compare it to what is the topic here though.

[Pete S]

yes but I have A past Pete, covering everything from jazz to jungle; and that past had its soundtrack, its anthems and its good times.

but I'm not stuck in it, or fixated on the music that went with it.

As great as anything ever is I'm just hungry for something new.

 

But I love jungle, early jungle - but can't stand drum & bass which it morphed into...

[Pete S]

As an aside Chalky,"Tastes sour don't it" ,Barbara Jean English (?),was played in the freestyle room,a similar feel to BS.

 

Really, it's pure 60's Northern, nothing like BS

[KevH]

Really, it's pure 60's Northern, nothing like BS

 

Maybe i was talking over it.

[Pete S]

Maybe i was talking over it.

 

I was one of the mugs duped with the "only" acetate of this so I've definitely listened to it a few times 

[Labeat]

Thank-you all you promoters who provide us with 2 & 3 room venues, variety of music is essential. There are a few exceptions like Burnley and 100 club, but by now everyone ought to know their policies before paying a visit. I never use the term now.... Northern Soul, it is, to me..... SOUL.... with added tags of different genre's

[pow wow mik]

No I understand that people have varied tastes, Jesus Chalky if you ever hear any of my mixed genre podcasts, I just don't, never have, and never will like, other styles of music which are plainly not "Northern Soul" being played at "Northern Soul" venues, you might as well play country and western...oh hang on...

northern soul doesnt really mean owt though, except that which is played at northern soul venues!

Had this same thing about early r&b or later soul being played on the mod scene and people coming up with weird theories about why it wasn't mod, none of which made any sense.

if it got played by mod djs and went down well at a mod do, then it's mod music.

I guess northern soul is pretty much like that isnt it?

things change, you cant rage at it too much. If you think the up front soul scene is too different from the traditional northern soul scene to use the term, then I wouldnt worry about it ; I dont think anyone cares about the term any more, except the nostalgia folks, and bootleg sellers.

Maybe by the same standard, i couldnt call my night a mod night....oh well...

[pow wow mik]

But I love jungle, early jungle - but can't stand drum & bass which it morphed into...

I just loved it for about 2 years, not sure nowadays what style you'd call it but it was known as 'jump up' then - very antisocial gangster sounding stuff, love it.

Still got a pile of 12s, hard to imagine music ever getting that badass again.

sorry for off topic

[KevH]

I was one of the mugs duped with the "only" acetate of this so I've definitely listened to it a few times 

 

Sorry Pete i should have added a smiley after my post.

[Pomonkey]

Have to admit love opening this site's latest list to have a laugh at the comedy descriptions and prices - the current one has a personal fave, a totally cheap as chips Hal Blaine 45 we've used for 7 years now as the intro music for our live acts for sale priced at uk200 and described as an unknown, at least if the records aren't priceless the entertainment value is close.  This c/u is pretty crap though.

[Mark R]

The critics can say what they like, it always gets people up and dancing.

 

Don't know it, not heard it, so just an observation here........but you are one of the last people I would expect to think that danceability and quality are always bedfellows! ;-)

 

 

Cheers,

Mark R

[Johnmcc]

Bettye Swann and Dynamics both spun at Soul Essence, OK it's not a northern soul niter, but these aren't old style northern soul records. Both had a good reaction. 

That's good to read Steve, no doubt right records at the right time.

The "Bettye c/up" also went down very well at Rugby in the middle of a set which included Hopkins Brothers, United Sound and Eddie Parker (I'm Gone).

Maybe set selection, time and place are important!