Green Detroit Executives Withdrawn ?

[Pete S]

Why do people think this was withdrawn?  I don't think it was, I just think it's mega rare.  And the orange ones came out 8 years later so it wasn't shelved and then reissued straight away - it's just got a bump on the run in.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Pete S

[Tricky]

Its quite a big bump tho Pete. 

[Frankie Crocker]

The B side might have some sort of flaw or distortion but the Cool a Off side plays OK.

[Rich B]

Is it because the pressing was off centre?

[Dobber]

i imagine it is because of the bump on the run in,however if the press went tits up,why not sort it out and run some more off,maybe he just didnt have that much faith in it?

[Louis]

I bought one of the green ones from "Blues & Soul" mag when they used to advertise records in the inside back cover poss. 72/73. They advertised other side "sho-nuff hot pants" and it cost £0.30p.  I got it with a few others and bought it cos it had Detroit in the group name.

 

I sold it early eighties to Guy for £3.00!

 

Louis

[Dobber]

i know it was a while back,but do you recall the bump on the run in?

[Pete S]

Is it because the pressing was off centre?

 

It's not off centre - only Mick Smith's copy is!

[Kjw]

If they re-pressed it because of a fault then they didn't do a very good job with the orange label copies

 

I've seen copies that play off centre, some where the labels are offset in the run out and plenty with a warp

[Pete S]

If they re-pressed it because of a fault then they didn't do a very good job with the orange label copies

 

I've seen copies that play off centre, some where the labels are offset in the run out and plenty with a warp

 

The majority of the labels are offcentre on both the green and the orange, but I still don't know where this story that the green one was withdrawn came from, both copies I've had were mint, had a bump on the edge, and played mint.

[Kjw]

I've had two green copies in the past and both played fine

[Kev John]

I bought one of the green ones from "Blues & Soul" mag when they used to advertise records in the inside back cover poss. 72/73. They advertised other side "sho-nuff hot pants" and it cost £0.30p.  I got it with a few others and bought it cos it had Detroit in the group name.

 

I sold it early eighties to Guy for £3.00!

 

Louis

Louis 

 

I've now got that copy Guy H scribed in the run out 

 

atb Kev 

 

BTW it cost me a lot less than £3 

Edited April 6, 2015 by Kev John

[Rich B]

It's not off centre - only Mick Smith's copy is!

Must just have been my bad luck then, I've had two green ones. One was well off centre and the other was borderline.

[Pete S]

Must just have been my bad luck then, I've had two green ones. One was well off centre and the other was borderline.

 

The actual record or just the label?

[Rich B]

Actual records Pete. I used to use one of those white autographed ones to play.

[Kev John]

Just gone on Jm's Auction lets see how rare it is as Pete S recons it may be mega rare 

 

 

https://www.raresoulman.co.uk/auction/9884/cool-off-sho-nuff-hot-pants

 

No mention of this being withdrawn by JM !

 

atb Kev 

Edited April 9, 2015 by Kev John

[philflavell]

Is it still for sale then send details please 

[Peter99]

Is it still for sale then send details please 

https://www.raresoulman.co.uk/search/Artist/DETROIT%2BEXECUTIVES/all/1

[Premium Stuff]

Test press is of the orange copy

 

Green original is the only way to own this baby 

[philflavell]

How much then mate ?

[philflavell]

Are you serious pal?

[Peter99]

philflavell, on 17 May 2015 - 8:31 PM, said:

Are you serious pal?

People might be a little more responsive if you came across as being a bit more friendly. Just an observation like.

[Mick Boyle]

Sold my green one 2 years ago for £250 it was in the sales box for 5 weeks

Big bump on outer edge plaid ace label slightly off-center

MInt condition

Why so many of such a rare record in mint or close - Puzzled 

[SHEFFSOUL]

re..the white so called 'test press'..was available from soul bowl for around £5 sometime in the late 70's..i bought one and it was autographed..i dont think it was a real test press as such..just a white label with popcorns signature..

[Pete S]

Straight from the horse's mouth so to speak:

 

HI PETE—I BOUGHT ALL POPCORN'S STOCK———WE HAD QUANTITY ON BOTH THE GREEN AND ORANGE COPIES WHICH WERE RELEASED ALMOST AT THE SAME TIME—I ALSO HAD 100 BLANK LABEL COPIES THAT I GOT POPCORN TO AUTOGRAPH——JOHN

[SHEFFSOUL]

so, there you have it..an almost simultaneous release probably to eradicate the pressing problems of the green issue..however my orange copy has dimples in the vinyl..but plays great..

[Frankie Crocker]

Is it still for sale then send details please 

Manship's auction finished a couple of weeks ago

[SHEFFSOUL]

Straight from the horse's mouth so to speak:

 

HI PETE—I BOUGHT ALL POPCORN'S STOCK———WE HAD QUANTITY ON BOTH THE GREEN AND ORANGE COPIES WHICH WERE RELEASED ALMOST AT THE SAME TIME—I ALSO HAD 100 BLANK LABEL COPIES THAT I GOT POPCORN TO AUTOGRAPH——JOHN

 

 

interesting..although both issues were apparently released almost simultaneously i never saw a second issue orange until they became available from Soul Bowl. Does this imply they were never/poorly distributed..or did anyone have an orange issue around the same time or slightly after the green copies surfaced?

[Gilly]

Let me just say this, if you wanted a record out quick (and they did everyone was racing) you had to get your money back asap because of your outlay ie studio time, musicians, 2" master tape very expensive and then the pressing plant costs + artwork if when you approached the plant asked for say green paper and they hadn't got any you wont hang around use whatever colour you have. This can apply at the beginning of a run and if sales from that first run looked busy you go for repress to keep it hot you would take any colour they had. Its as simple as that in some cases.

[SHEFFSOUL]

Let me just say this, if you wanted a record out quick (and they did everyone was racing) you had to get your money back asap because of your outlay ie studio time, musicians, 2" master tape very expensive and then the pressing plant costs + artwork if when you approached the plant asked for say green paper and they hadn't got any you wont hang around use whatever colour you have. This can apply at the beginning of a run and if sales from that first run looked busy you go for repress to keep it hot you would take any colour they had. Its as simple as that in some cases.

 

no doubt..but the question i'm pondering is..why only green copies surfaced when both colours were pressed at the same time.? (almost)

Edited May 23, 2015 by SHEFFSOUL

[Steve G]

Maybe the orange ones weren't distributed as well as the green (non Soul Bowl) copies that were around in the 70s were from a source other than Popcorn - like a distributor or a store.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Steve G

[SHEFFSOUL]

Maybe the orange ones weren't distributed as well as the green (non Soul Bowl) copies that were around in the 70s were from a source other than Popcorn - like a distributor or a store.

thats what i originally asked..and its a possibility..or maybe JA recollections of the pressing times are a little off?

[Kev John]

I've just looked at the run out markings in my Green issue there are no Matrix Stamped in the Deadwax 

 

only scribed info

 

Could anyone with the Orange copy pm or post on here so we can compare info 

 

atb Kev   

Edited May 23, 2015 by Kev John

[SHEFFSOUL]

I've just looked at the run out markings in my Green issue there are no Matrix Stamped in the Deadwax 

 

only scribed info

 

Could anyone with the Orange copy pm or post on here so we can compare info 

 

atb Kev   

 

orange label..moulded on type..matrix appears as scratched in..(counter clock) 20011     6m                209          malone?    labels off centre on both sides..dimples in vinyl both sides...

[purist]

I dont remember now exactly where it came from but I got an orange one before 'the orange load' turned up (by several years I think) At the time I would buy anything that came from detroit, even stuff that wasn't soul but was on labels that featured soul tracks that I knew of. I'd gamble a lot because the records were so cheap compared to buying imports in the UK.  I later queried the colour and was told by fellow detroit enthusiasts that they were pressed at the same time, just ran out of paper (one suggested that the orange was the first press and the green was from the later pressing, and that this 2nd pressing had produced poor copies and most were scrapped? but that could just be somebody expressing the point that nobody knows and its dangerous to be certain which came first, and there's no pressing stamps to date either copy) Sure there are fewer green label copies but that doesn't guarantee they were the first produced, more likely it points to a substandard pressing, which happens more often when reusing a pressing plate doesn't it? From memory one day I took it around Richard Domars house and put it next to a green one that he had and it looked like they were pressed from the same plate ( think info scratched in was the same on both?) I've never actually put my orange one next to one from the later load to check if they are identical.
I've spent a small fortune on records down the years, but never once have I had the desire to own a green labelled copy. Strange isn't it, I'd probably buy any detroit n/s 45 original, but not this one, just because we are totally guessing as to which came first the chicken or the egg.
if its really crucial I will dig it out, just might take a day or three to find it. hth
One last thing - I asked Popcorn on two different occasions about this and whilst he was great on some subjects, recording sessions, tours, etc, label colour wasn't his thing, showing him my orange copy he said thats the right one, next time I asked, which was some years later, he wasn't sure. One time he said that they always used grey labels for local pressings, grey????? I wondered if he was thinking of Revilot but he said no. So does anyone have any grey Soul Hawks of Jimmy Soul Clark?
collecting, don't you just love it, a mix between addiction, passion, investment and sherlock holmes ;-)

[Kev John]

orange label..moulded on type..matrix appears as scratched in..(counter clock) 20011     6m                209          malone?    labels off centre on both sides..dimples in vinyl both sides...

Same here but i think its Milan not malone ! 

 

atb kev   

[SHEFFSOUL]

Same here but i think its Milan not malone ! 

 

atb kev   

 

maybe..it certainly raises a big Q over the both issues..i guess as the green one surfaced first it was assumed it was the original/first press..maybe not..it does appear that both were taken from the same plate..but so were some reissues..i believe the orange and green ones share a similar press time..and wouldn't be surprised to see the orange rise in value..i dont think the green one is mega rare..seen a few of those over the years..and id B&S were selling them at 30p bitd??

[Tlscapital]

Even if the matrix match, the labels don't and so it can't be just a color paper factor. They had to do another template changing the fonts for the letterings of the logo. 

 

[SHEFFSOUL]

Even if the matrix match, the labels don't and so it can't be just a color paper factor. They had to do another template changing the fonts for the letterings of the logo. 

 

Capture d’écran 2015-05-23 à 19.43.17.pngCapture d’écran 2015-05-23 à 19.35.54.png

 

not necessarily...some labels were produced as semi blanks..with the logo/address and other constant details ..the artist/title and other details unique to the recording were printed onto the existing label..but i dont think this matters much in this case..just a label change inbetween the presses..the big questions are which was first and the time lapse between the two presses..i always thought the orange was a much later press exclusive to Soul Bowl to cater for the northern demand..but after JA's comment and the info posted here..i believe both are/were pressed about the same time..making it a true 1st and second or simultaneous press...a fairly common instance with northern soul records..and i think the orange press is due a reassessment..

[Kev John]

Reference to Cool Off on this link released 1967 

 

PeteS believes the Orange issue released some 8yrs later which that would mean released 1975 ?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_%22Popcorn%22_Wylie

[SHEFFSOUL]

Reference to Cool Off on this link released 1967 

 

PeteS believes the Orange issue released some 8yrs later which that would mean released 1975 ?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_%22Popcorn%22_Wylie

yes Pete Smith makes this point at the begining of the post..but later posts that according to John Anderson both issues (green/orange) were pressed at roughly the same time...i doubt a second issue was pressed 8 years later unless it was for the northern demand..i bought a white label copy autographed by popcorn wylie from SB around 1976.. i never knew an orange copy existed until 20+ years later..i was with Dave Raistrick who coolly pronounced 'not an original..soul bowl..'  i bought it anyway... 

[SHEFFSOUL]

and lets not forget..its nemesis 'the mighty lover' Mighty Lovers/Ideals appeared on three label variations..all appear to be agreed 1960's press..

Edited May 23, 2015 by SHEFFSOUL

[Frankie Crocker]

Got my orange label copy from Soul Bowl 1975/76 when it was big at Wigan. Never saw a green label copy until fairly recently when I picked one off eBay listed for the funk side. The green label copy is easily the scarcest and despite the pressing flaw, plays absolutely fine. There is a very unusual greeny-orange copy in the hands of Gary from Holyhead as he coloured his orange one using a green felt pen - he did this for a laugh as the green label was reputed to be rare at the time and this was Wigan c1976/77 and lots of us were just fussed about owning the sound rather than possessing an original copy.