I was introduced to the Northern scene in 1981 . All was good for a few of years, collecting oldies and modern soul it was great . Then bang the 60's newies gang , ( with Keb swirling and snarling like a Tasmanian devil ) came into vogue .

Did Keb , Guy and Pete Lawson invent this term , and how many quality records did they turn up ? (

Simon

Edited August 23, 200618 yr by Simon M

The term Mafia also came into common parlance in the 30's. Actually, this term originated in the 1870's, from a Sicilian word denoting courage or bravura. So you see, Keb or any of his mates could not have invented the word as they were not born til the late 50's and early 60's

Wish there was a re-ativation of the 60's mafia, reckon it would give a right good kick into the scene

just my opinion, but it seems alot are trying to follow Soul Sam, and 'break'/discover the next big 70's record, and there is some rubbish being turned about in the process IMO of course,

Marco Lottaspaghetti - head of the 60's mafia - generation 2000

Dam , I should of just said 60's newies . I'd heard the term 60's discoveries , but " 60's newies " ?

  Simon M said:

Dam , I should of just said 60's newies . I'd heard the term 60's discoveries , but " 60's newies " ?

First time I heard the term was Guy Hennigan. Not sure if he coined it, or it was Keb but the level of resentment they had towards the oldies scene, especially Wigan having oldies all-nighter was intense. I'm off now Saints playing Keb's team Elgin in Scottish CIS Cup.

  soulfulsaint said:

First time I heard the term was Guy Hennigan. Not sure if he coined it, or it was Keb but the level of resentment they had towards the oldies scene, especially Wigan having oldies all-nighter was intense. I'm off now Saints playing Keb's team Elgin in Scottish CIS Cup.

Ok Stuart ( Come on Saints lets have 6-0) , BTW ,I think we need a Scan of your Echoes article for this thread

Simon Murray

Edited August 22, 200618 yr by Simon M

  Baz said:

Wish there was a re-ativation of the 60's mafia, reckon it would give a right good kick into the scene

just my opinion, but it seems alot are trying to follow Soul Sam, and 'break'/discover the next big 70's record, and there is some rubbish being turned about in the process IMO of course,

Marco Lottaspaghetti - head of the 60's mafia - generation 2000

:good:

  Baz said:

Wish there was a re-ativation of the 60's mafia, reckon it would give a right good kick into the scene

Hmm it was very cliquey as i remember, no time for outsiders who didn't know their stuff. Yes lots of brilliant sounds discovered and broken but if you want the kind of inclusivity on the scene discussed on another thread on here, forget it. If you didn't know the width of a run out groove on an obscure 45 from a basement garage in Detroit uncovered during someone's summer holiday and then covered up you were a nobody.

It's a much friendlier scene these days.

I might be wrong, i was a teenager at the time (notoriously sensitive) and masses of gear and paranoia didn't help...

  Matt Male said:

Hmm it was very cliquey as i remember, no time for outsiders who didn't know their stuff. Yes lots of brilliant sounds discovered and broken but if you want the kind of inclusivity on the scene discussed on another thread on here, forget it. If you didn't know the width of a run out groove on an obscure 45 from a basement garage in Detroit uncovered during someone's summer holiday and then covered up you were a nobody.

It's a much friendlier scene these days.

I might be wrong, i was a teenager at the time (notoriously sensitive) and masses of gear and paranoia didn't help...

Nah dont want all that crud, just playing some good 'forgoten' 60's records

how will you know wot they are if they,ve been forgotten . besides there,s a lot of jocks (not our mates over the border) even some of the main players playin, some really average 60t,s stuff. i love soul music in general and it,s always sad to hear people pigeon hole-ing and labeling stuff, anyroad life dint stop in 1969 :angry: .

best, bri. (not particularly a 70t,s bloke).

Spot on baz, would love to the sixties mafia remerge. Some of the flyers were brilliant.

Didn't Robbie Vincent/Chris Hill/Greg Edwads also use the Mafia term?

Think it was something to do with them all increasing there DJ rates collectively, thereby holding promoters to ransom. Not literally of course.

  Baz said:

Wish there was a re-ativation of the 60's mafia, reckon it would give a right good kick into the scene

just my opinion, but it seems alot are trying to follow Soul Sam, and 'break'/discover the next big 70's record, and there is some rubbish being turned about in the process IMO of course,

Marco Lottaspaghetti - head of the 60's mafia - generation 2000

there was still plenty of modern/70's played during the 60's mafia period of Keb and Guy etc....

  Soulsmith said:

Didn't Robbie Vincent/Chris Hill/Greg Edwads also use the Mafia term?

Think it was something to do with them all increasing there DJ rates collectively, thereby holding promoters to ransom. Not literally of course.

I heard Keb and Guy , tortured Dave Throley for spots at Stafford ?

  Simon M said:

I heard Keb and Guy , tortured Dave Throley for spots at Stafford ?

Plays that stood out for me ...

Sam Fletcher I'd Think It Over ( but did Minshull break this ***? )

Royal Robins Something About You Sends Me

Groovettes Think It Over Baby ( £2 from Manship ???)

Jackie Day Naughty Boy

Big Frank

were they responsible for slowing down the pace & introducing the term 'beat ballad' as well?

I can remember being surprised at hearing 'slow' things like 'walk with a winner' & 'the drifter' back in the early 80's. that might have been the 6T's crowd though. ??

  macca said:

were they responsible for slowing down the pace & introducing the term 'beat ballad' as well?

I can remember being surprised at hearing 'slow' things like 'walk with a winner' & 'the drifter' back in the early 80's. that might have been the 6T's crowd though. ??

[/quote

To a certain extent, the 60s Mafia were influential in promoting 'beat ballads', but the two records mentioned had previously been played at the Casino as well, cos i remember hearing them there first,so it wasn't all pop at Wigan!!! Del x

Big O coined the phrase here in North Herts, many many years ago. See below.

Incidentally anyone know what 'Keb' is short for? If indeed it is short for anything .. Kebin? Kebathy ..?

His little nephew could not say Ken which is his real name and always said what sounded like Keb at least that is what he told me

just my opinion, but it seems alot are trying to follow Soul Sam, and 'break'/discover the next big 70's record, and there is some rubbish being turned about in the process IMO of course,

  soul shrews said:

just my opinion, but it seems alot are trying to follow Soul Sam, and 'break'/discover the next big 70's record, and there is some rubbish being turned about in the process IMO of course,

Baz, I could have written this in 1985, read Keb in place of Soul Sam and 60's in place of 70's.

Cheers Paul Woosnam

Not nearly as much tho`,Paco and with loads more style,no mistake.

Edited August 26, 200618 yr by ken

Here's another perspective.

Not sure any of the sixities newie mafia Djs could have connected without the influence of the big collector/dealers of the era. Tim Ashibende, Rod Shard, Dave Withers etc were a big driving force trying to maintain and develop the sixties soul force, whilst two-bit trendy gay-boy jessies like me were flirting with those evasively rare super-cool 70s sounds, later known as 'modern' northern.

So the mafia was an 'attitude' as much as it was a group of named DJs. It was a reaction to how insitutionalised Wigan had become.

That's why I think the scene needs to be tolerant and embrace the current R&B 'mafia' who are doing a very simlar thing now - they are forcing the scene 'back to basics'. Its a movement with many comparisons, in that it want to take rare soul to its roots with a touch of extremity and attitude. Great.

Both 'movements' want/wanted to discover music that's new and underplayed in a rare '60s soul context.

Both were kicking against the 'established' scene - a scene without dispute is dead.

  ken said:

Not nearly as much tho`,Paco

and with loads more style,no mistake.

Not sure Ken, and why aren"t you out anyway?

  soul shrews said:

Not sure Ken, and why aren"t you out anyway?

Cause i`m in going to Brighton tomoz`,so beware Brighton...........

  ken said:

Cause i`m in

going to Brighton tomoz`,so beware Brighton...........

Look out Brighton! Bring us back a stick of rock wontcha.

Cheers P+M

  soul shrews said:

Look out Brighton! Bring us back a stick of rock wontcha.

Cheers P+M

OK,bakc to topic...................soul Sam,style?

  soulfulsaint said:

That's why I think the scene needs to be tolerant and embrace the current R&B 'mafia' who are doing a very simlar thing now - they are forcing the scene 'back to basics'. Its a movement with many comparisons, in that it want to take rare soul to its roots with a touch of extremity and attitude. Great.

is there an r'n'b mafia ? lol

  Dundeedavie2 said:

is there an r'n'b mafia ? lol

If there's not there should be Davie. Back in Stafford days it was about a team of real believers - like you now, They wanted the scene to thrive and have attitude. Back to Basics is a great principle - the sixties newies didn't have a slogan back then but you do.

Perth City Soul Club 1971.

  soulfulsaint said:

If there's not there should be Davie. Back in Stafford days it was about a team of real believers - like you now, They wanted the scene to thrive and have attitude. Back to Basics is a great principle - the sixties newies didn't have a slogan back then but you do.

Perth City Soul Club 1971.

i think there would only be 4-5 up to the job and bolshy enough to carry it off .

i'd love to say the name of our club Basics(not that i'm applying it to any form of "mafia" ) was my idea but it wasn't it was Kev's and truly inspired it was too

  Dundeedavie2 said:

i think there would only be 4-5 up to the job and bolshy enough to carry it off .

i'd love to say the name of our club Basics(not that i'm applying it to any form of "mafia" ) was my idea but it wasn't it was Kev's and truly inspired it was too

I'm convinced that the R&B drive is the next big take on the scene. First time ever that the scene has been forced back to early/mid 60s etc. Needs a 'big' venue club somewhere that defines the scene. It need its Stafford, (Sixties Newies) its 100 Club (6Ts) and maybe it needs a 'modern' room that's allowed to play oldies if you get a my drift.

Edited August 26, 200618 yr by soulfulsaint

  Tedsoul said:

His little nephew could not say Ken which is his real name and always said what sounded like Keb at least that is what he told me

Ken Darge ...

Nah!

Good on the nephew, eh Ted ..

  Simon M said:

Plays that stood out for me ...

Sam Fletcher I'd Think It Over ( but did Minshull break this ***? ) Lawson rediscovery,from levines collection via bernie goldings barn,first played by keb or guy

Royal Robins Something About You Sends Me

Groovettes Think It Over Baby ( £2 from Manship ???)

Jackie Day Naughty Boy

Big Frank

  soulfulsaint said:

I'm convinced that the R&B drive is the next big take on the scene. First time ever that the scene has been forced back to early/mid 60s etc. Needs a 'big' venue club somewhere that defines the scene. It need its Stafford, (Sixties Newies) its 100 Club (6Ts) and maybe it needs a 'modern' room that's allowed to play oldies if you get a my drift.

Late 40's to early 60's R&B....love it

Bazza

Edited August 27, 200618 yr by bazza

  Simon M said:

Plays that stood out for me ...

Sam Fletcher I'd Think It Over ( but did Minshull break this ***? )

Certainly first time I heard it was Minshull at Hinckley '83 as c/u as George Kirby............a mate was all excited it was gonna be played and said....."......he's gonna play this record in a minute, just wait til you hear it..."............of course, it is quite fantastic

Cheers,

Mark R

  soulfulsaint said:

I'm convinced that the R&B drive is the next big take on the scene.

My god, I hope your wrong, if not my 35yr participation in the scene is over!

  soulfulsaint said:

I'm convinced that the R&B drive is the next big take on the scene. First time ever that the scene has been forced back to early/mid 60s etc. Needs a 'big' venue club somewhere that defines the scene. It need its Stafford, (Sixties Newies) its 100 Club (6Ts) and maybe it needs a 'modern' room that's allowed to play oldies if you get a my drift.

I hope you are wrong, but I do know there is quite a large market out there for RnB that is completeley unaware of our scenes interest in RnB.....and vice versa. I do a bit of work for a company that has successfully organised blues/RnB weekenders in this country for the last 4 or 5 years.

If you could fuse both scenes, you might have something.

But you won't find me hanging around it........

Col.

i still say the backlash against r'n'b these days ( and it is there ) stems from the last time northern dj's tried to make it the next big thing and started playing " rare" r'n'b .

leave it to those to play it who love it and have a feeling for it and not just a tool for filling your dance floors.

i'd say the same for 70's , crossover and modern as well by the way , stick to the sentiment in the old time tune " do what you do well "

  bazza said:

Late 40's to early 60's R&B....love it

Well I like 40's and 50's R&B, which you can hear at rockin' do's, but has nothing to do with soul music.

So shall we play jazz and funk and ska at soul do's, because they have a relation to soul?

Soul has harmony, strings and very different feel to the rougher cut R&B.

Would welcome a R&B nighter, just so I knew what venues to avoid.

  Simsy said:

Ken Darge ...

Nah!

Good on the nephew, eh Ted ..

Keb was definately Kenneth, but he didn't like to be called it

Edited August 29, 200618 yr by Lucy