Johnnie Mae Mathews-Lonely You'll Be

[Paul R]

Has this ever been booted as an Atco Demo?



Also has anyone any information. The writer credits are Melvin Davis. It uses the same backing track as The Platters "Going Back To detroit" written by Dixon, Scott, Jennings.



Anyone know the story.



Anyone know an approx value for the pictured demo?







Oops posted the track by accident!





Paul

[Sean Hampsey]

Has this ever been booted as an Atco Demo?

Also has anyone any information. The writer credits are Melvin Davis. It uses the same backing track as The Platters "Going Back To detroit" written by Dixon, Scott, Jennings.

Anyone know the story.

Anyone know an approx value for the pictured demo?

Oops posted the track by accident!

Paul

I dont believe this was ever booted although the scanned label does look rather weak. Is the paper glossy / silky rather than Matte?. Most Atco promos do have a sheen to the paper.

The catalogue number is correct. Also came out originally on Art (002) label and Jam 103 with a different flipside. Also has same backing as the Calvin williams version, also on ATCO.

Sean

Edited August 19, 2006 by Sean Hampsey

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Has this ever been booted as an Atco Demo?

Anyone know an approx value for the pictured demo?

I bought a mint Atco demo off Shifty recently, for seventy five quid (a genuine one, of course!) The labels are glossy, like most New York-pressed Atlanic/Atco 45s and issues, and it had a date stamp on the label.

Like Sean says, I don't think it's ever been booted. I do think, though, that it's a slightly different mix to the version on the original Detroit label (the name of which is currently escaping me, at half six AM...)

TONE

[Jerry Hipkiss]

I do think, though, that it's a slightly different mix to the version on the original Detroit label (the name of which is currently escaping me, at half six AM...)

TONE

Two smaller label issues Tone - Jam or Art. And I agree the mix is slightly different, and pressed at a slightly different speed as well.?

Hippo.

Edited August 19, 2006 by Jerry Hipkiss

[Paul R]

Thanks for the info, here here's a bit more detail

Details on the run out are hand scratched 67c-130950 11 about 1/4 of the way round clockwise is a W (this is viewed with the bottom of the W nearest playing surface). On the oposite side is LW(with the W inside the angle of the L) then there is a ( skinny)TA.

These details are similar to my Crazy baby issue(but this also has a strange tiny stamp in the runout almost like a "turnip" with an S in it!. this Coasters issue is matt while the JMM has a slight sheen.

The JMM has been around since at least 72/73 although I only acquired it in around 75.

and I know the Coasters has been discussed previously, but I would like an opinion on its origninality or not

Paul

[Rob Moss]

I can't confirm this as cast iron fact, but I do recall hearing from someone in Detroit (honestly can't remember) that Johnnie Mae made a deal with the good people at Atco/Atlantic for distribution of her material, but then permanently blotted her copybook by bootlegging her own record - the aforementioned 'Lonely you'll be'. This quickly resulted in her being dropped by the label. Presumably this means that 'legitimate' copies came out, as well as her own copies?

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

I can't confirm this as cast iron fact, but I do recall hearing from someone in Detroit (honestly can't remember) that Johnnie Mae made a deal with the good people at Atco/Atlantic for distribution of her material, but then permanently blotted her copybook by bootlegging her own record - the aforementioned 'Lonely you'll be'. This quickly resulted in her being dropped by the label. Presumably this means that 'legitimate' copies came out, as well as her own copies?

....This is quite possibly true - but if she pirated her own record, I suspect that it would be copies on Art and the other Detroit label that are 'less than legal', rather than Atco demos. Not much chance that Atlantic would have suspected a few hundred more copies of a local pressing appearing in the marketplace. And if she WAS pirating the Atco copy, surely it would have been stock copies that she pirated, as that would have been what she would have wanted to get into shops, not white label promos

Having looked at the scan quite closely, I'm sure it's a genuine record - the lettering on the label ties in with the "PL" suffix to the matrix number (Although I can't remember the name of the pressing plant offhand, the PL pressings were - I'm pretty sure - done in Memphis, which is why so many Stax 45s have these matt labels, and so few have glossy ones)

TONE

Edited August 19, 2006 by TONY ROUNCE

[45cellar]

Thanks for the info, here here's a bit more detail

Details on the run out are hand scratched 67c-130950 11 about 1/4 of the way round clockwise is a W (this is viewed with the bottom of the W nearest playing surface). On the oposite side is LW(with the W inside the angle of the L) then there is a ( skinny)TA.

These details are similar to my Crazy baby issue(but this also has a strange tiny stamp in the runout almost like a "turnip" with an S in it!. this Coasters issue is matt while the JMM has a slight sheen.

The JMM has been around since at least 72/73 although I only acquired it in around 75.

and I know the Coasters has been discussed previously, but I would like an opinion on its origninality or not

Paul

Hi Paul

Although I can't help with Johnny Mae Matthews

I have the Original - Crazy Baby - DEMO & Stock Copy

Deadwax Matrix Details FOLLOW

Scratched on DEMO

at 8 O'Clock = "W"

at 6 O'Clock = "65C - 9290 - 11"

at 3 O'Clock = "LW AT"

Scratched on Stock Copy

at 8 O'Clock = "W"

at 6 O'Clock = "65C - 9290 - 1" "@"

at 3 O'Clock = "LW AT"

The @ is only on my Stock Copy "The Strange Turnip Mark" that you describe

The Scratched Markings are exactlly the same other than the stamp and the extra 1

Both are Vinyl with Matt Labels and are Definitely Original

I hope this helps

Edited August 19, 2006 by 45cellar

[Paul R]

Hi Paul

Although I can't help with Johnny Mae Matthews

I have the Original - Crazy Baby - DEMO & Stock Copy

Deadwax Matrix Details FOLLOW

Scratched on DEMO

at 8 O'Clock = "W"

at 6 O'Clock = "65C - 9290 - 11"

at 3 O'Clock = "LW AT"

Scratched on Stock Copy

at 8 O'Clock = "W"

at 6 O'Clock = "65C - 9290 - 1" "@"

at 3 O'Clock = "LW AT"

The @ is only on my Stock Copy "The Strange Turnip Mark" that you describe

The Scratched Markings are exactlly the same other than the stamp and the extra 1

Both are Vinyl with Matt Labels and are Definately Original

I hope this helps

My Crazy baby Looks ok as per your description exactly. And the Johnny Mae Mathews also looks ok.

Thanks for you help. Any idea on rough Values nowadays?

Paul

[45cellar]

My Crazy baby Looks ok as per your description exactly. And the Johnny Mae Mathews also looks ok.

Thanks for you help. Any idea on rough Values nowadays?

Paul

I am not sure what CURRENT price is.

MANSHIP'S U.S.A. 3rd Edition - Doesn't specify DEMO/Stock & has Crazy Baby at £150

with Johnny Mae on Atco at £100

Edited August 19, 2006 by 45cellar

[Tony Smith]

....This is quite possibly true - but if she pirated her own record, I suspect that it would be copies on Art and the other Detroit label that are 'less than legal', rather than Atco demos. Not much chance that Atlantic would have suspected a few hundred more copies of a local pressing appearing in the marketplace. And if she WAS pirating the Atco copy, surely it would have been stock copies that she pirated, as that would have been what she would have wanted to get into shops, not white label promos

Having looked at the scan quite closely, I'm sure it's a genuine record - the lettering on the label ties in with the "PL" suffix to the matrix number (Although I can't remember the name of the pressing plant offhand, the PL pressings were - I'm pretty sure - done in Memphis, which is why so many Stax 45s have these matt labels, and so few have glossy ones)

TONE

Unlikely the Jam/Art releases are less than legal, JMM had by this time been long established on the Detroit music scene as a label owner/producer etc., the Atco release being a major picking up on a successful local release for national distribution, think it's unlikely someone would press up a release they had already released and was probably still available, and Atco had no problem in licensing Calvin Williams from JMM's Northern De-La label release a year or so later.

[Guest Northern Nige]

More info

https://www.soulfulkindamusic.net/jmmathews.htm

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Unlikely the Jam/Art releases are less than legal, JMM had by this time been long established on the Detroit music scene as a label owner/producer etc., the Atco release being a major picking up on a successful local release for national distribution, think it's unlikely someone would press up a release they had already released and was probably still available, and Atco had no problem in licensing Calvin Williams from JMM's Northern De-La label release a year or so later.

...Read my posting again, Tone - nowhere in it did I say that every copy of the Jam and art 45s were less than legal. To reiteriate, it's much easier for someone to keep pressing, surreptitiously, a record on their own label, for which they already have metal stampers made, labels printed etc. that to counterfeit a whole new set of stampers and labels that look like another company''s record.

I don't personally believe that she fell foul of Atco by counterfeiting herself. As you rightly say, she placed Calvin Williams' 45 with the label not so very long afterwards, and they would not have touched it with a bargepole if there had been even a whiff of controversy about JMM's previous dealings with them. I was simply commenting on Rob Moss' posting, which seemed to repeat a rumour that, for some inexplicable reason, she had pirated the Atco demo of "Lonely You'll Be"...

TONE