Cresa Watson-Salvation-Charay 90

[SHEFFSOUL]

anyone have a sound clip, label scan or any further info?

[Chalky]

No clips on the net as far as I know.  Mighty rare, I know of three copies over here.

[Agentsmith]

No clips on the net as far as I know.  Mighty rare, I know of three copies over here.

karl, has this subject been up on here before, always an interesting one...i know young dyson has it, but isn't it the record, where the artist name has been erazed and another written over the top ( in other words, it's supposed to read cressa watson but it says rita lee ).

[SHEFFSOUL]

 

this is Charay 90 A side...

[Agentsmith]

had a look at images and robert thomas, men from macon & rita lee are there..no cressa watson though. probably have to ask andy to post it up, or whoever else owns it.

[SHEFFSOUL]

i never fully understood the Salvation story...i always thought the Rita Lee/men from macon were later issues to cater for the northern soul market...

[Guest Dave Turner]

 

this is Charay 90 A side...

 

As far as I'm aware Cresa Watson "You're No Good" came out at least twice on Charay 90

 

Salvation / You're No Good

If you've Stopped Loving Me / You're No Good

 

Just saying in case you see a Charay 90 "You're No Good" expecting Salvation to definitely be on the flip

 

Edited January 18, 2015 by Dave Turner

[Chalky]

karl, has this subject been up on here before, always an interesting one...i know young dyson has it, but isn't it the record, where the artist name has been erazed and another written over the top ( in other words, it's supposed to read cressa watson but it says rita lee ).

 

I think Andy's has Cresa crossed out and Rita written on the label in biro.

[Chalky]

i never fully understood the Salvation story...i always thought the Rita Lee/men from macon were later issues to cater for the northern soul market...

 

Rita certainly was, someone was feeding the Major info about what was happening on the scene.

[Guest Dave Turner]

Not wishing to re-align the thread but just came across this post from about 7 years back re Major Bill Smith.

 

Makes a lot more sense and easier to understand than Bill Smith's numbering system and releases  

 

Part of the conspiracy is that in 1972, Kentucky, Texas recording producer man Colonel Bill Sanders paid Ian Levine to go into the studio, in league with Frank Popp, a child prodigy who was four at the time, to make all these recordings. Steve Brookstein does all the vocals on every Charay or Le Cam release, apart from those by Pic and Bill, who are actually Frankie and Johnny, who are Frankie Howard and June Whitfield on the earlier releases, and Terry Scott (of The Scott Brothers and The Whispers, a group which included brothers Wally and Wally Scott of The Reflections and Tony Micheals who did the original version of '6X6' on the spoons) and June Whitfield (who's big hit 'The Human Race' was voiced by Junie Morrison of the Ohio Players who used to be The Ohio Untouchables, and Indian group of low caste and who's members at one time included Wilson Pickett (Brian Wilson of The Beach Boys brother) Eddie Floyd, (brother of King Floyd and Floyd Smith) Sir Mack Rice, who did the original version of The Blues Brothers 'Mustang Sally' (written of course about Sally Sagoe who is Jean Carn under another name) and "It Takes One To Know One" originally by Larry Grayson and Micheal Portillo)
All the records on Charay and Le Cam including the rare alternate Tony Micheals vocal of "6 X 6" on Musicor and earlier, Marks and Spencers and an obscure track by The Volumes called 'Lady in Red' (later cover by Chris Rea of The Ostriches) were released on the 'Pama' label which was named after the next door neighbour of the son of a friend of the Auntie of label owner Harry Palmer. No one has ever seen a copy of any of these records on Pama or heard any of them so they must be really good.
That all true that is.  

[SHEFFSOUL]

has anyone heard the CW version and can comment on it?

[Mal C]

yep, its a great version, allot slower pace, dont know if it was the original. Her version of Dead is also very good, and easy to get, I'm not that partial to Ward Burton's version to be honest, overrated and over priced, they seem to come up for sale allot for a mega rare tune...

 

I have an MP3 if anybody want one,,,

 

mal

Edited January 18, 2015 by Mal C

[Markw]

yep, its a great version, allot slower pace, dont know if it was the original. Her version of Dead is also very good, and easy to get, I'm not that partial to Ward Burton's version to be honest, overrated and over priced, they seem to come up for sale allot for a mega rare tune...

 

I have an MP3 if anybody want one,,,

 

mal

Are we talking about the same thing hear, or have I missed some part of the thread? I think we are talking about "Salvation" on Charay (as in Robert Thomas), not "Sweet Temptation"?

[Ted Massey]

Cressa Watson sweet temptation is album only. Martha Starr has the single

[Chalky]

Cressa Watson sweet temptation is album only. Martha Starr has the single

 

I once saw a Charay listing for Cressa Watson with number but never found it again.

[NEV]

I once saw a Charay listing for Cressa Watson with number but never found it again.

I once saw spam fritters dancing and singing in a fish shop ,but I blame those mushrooms we found in Hamsterly forest

[Crogger]

Cressa Watson sweet temptation is album only. Martha Starr has the single

Is it on a proper album or just the compilation thingy that I,ve got? Also are Martha Starr and Cressa Watson two different people?

[Steve G]

has anyone heard the CW version and can comment on it?

 

Yes has been a regular spin for Butch and Andy D. 

[hullsoul]

I once saw spam fritters dancing and singing in a fish shop ,but I blame those mushrooms we found in Hamsterly forest

Nev

I'll never see another pink elephant again,it's spam fritters all the way for me     

Must admit don't see all the fuss personally it's Robert Thomas all the way for me,you keep all the other versions?

Cheers

Martyn

[KevH]

Is it on a proper album or just the compilation thingy that I,ve got? Also are Martha Starr and Cressa Watson two different people?

 

Complilation. Cressa Watson plus hey stoney face,and the rains came,couple of Yvonne Baker ballads.....

[Kempy]

My copy on C-90-A has Salvation on one side & If you've stopped loving me on the flip,Cressa Watson lightly inked over & Rita Lee written on label

[Mal C]

Are we talking about the same thing hear, or have I missed some part of the thread? I think we are talking about "Salvation" on Charay (as in Robert Thomas), not "Sweet Temptation"?

ahh, I'm talking about 'Sweet temptation' not Salvation, chalky sorry mate, I expect you already have 'Sweet temptation'...

 

M

[Agentsmith]

I think Andy's has Cresa crossed out and Rita written on the label in biro.

correct karl 

[Agentsmith]

Not wishing to re-align the thread but just came across this post from about 7 years back re Major Bill Smith.

 

Makes a lot more sense and easier to understand than Bill Smith's numbering system and releases  

 

Part of the conspiracy is that in 1972, Kentucky, Texas recording producer man Colonel Bill Sanders paid Ian Levine to go into the studio, in league with Frank Popp, a child prodigy who was four at the time, to make all these recordings. Steve Brookstein does all the vocals on every Charay or Le Cam release, apart from those by Pic and Bill, who are actually Frankie and Johnny, who are Frankie Howard and June Whitfield on the earlier releases, and Terry Scott (of The Scott Brothers and The Whispers, a group which included brothers Wally and Wally Scott of The Reflections and Tony Micheals who did the original version of '6X6' on the spoons) and June Whitfield (who's big hit 'The Human Race' was voiced by Junie Morrison of the Ohio Players who used to be The Ohio Untouchables, and Indian group of low caste and who's members at one time included Wilson Pickett (Brian Wilson of The Beach Boys brother) Eddie Floyd, (brother of King Floyd and Floyd Smith) Sir Mack Rice, who did the original version of The Blues Brothers 'Mustang Sally' (written of course about Sally Sagoe who is Jean Carn under another name) and "It Takes One To Know One" originally by Larry Grayson and Micheal Portillo)

All the records on Charay and Le Cam including the rare alternate Tony Micheals vocal of "6 X 6" on Musicor and earlier, Marks and Spencers and an obscure track by The Volumes called 'Lady in Red' (later cover by Chris Rea of The Ostriches) were released on the 'Pama' label which was named after the next door neighbour of the son of a friend of the Auntie of label owner Harry Palmer. No one has ever seen a copy of any of these records on Pama or heard any of them so they must be really good.

That all true that is.  

REALLY???......    

[Agentsmith]

 i like fish n' chips!

Edited January 18, 2015 by AGENTSMITH

[Mick Holdsworth]

Also are Martha Starr and Cressa Watson two different people?

As far a Charay goes, No, they are the same. The recordings are identical apart from the instrumental break being cut out on the LP. One thing I'm pretty sure about is that Martha Starr (Cressa Watson) is not Martha Star.

 

Cheers

Mick

[Chalky]

Martha Shamley is the Detroit Martha Starr's real name.

[Guest Ivor Jones]

Ive only got the white label with lilac writing of Rita Lee……Repress isn't it ? Anyway, when I've heard Butch spin the "Cressa Watson" version, it sounds absolutely identical to my Rita Lee one. So, is it the same or not ? Anyone confirm ?

[Davetay]

karl, has this subject been up on here before, always an interesting one...i know young dyson has it, but isn't it the record, where the artist name has been erazed and another written over the top ( in other words, it's supposed to read cressa watson but it says rita lee ).

Original  is on yellow label and it does read Cressa Watson.

I Know because l had it back in the 70's.

Edited January 18, 2015 by davetay

[Davetay]

Ive only got the white label with lilac writing of Rita Lee……Repress isn't it ? Anyway, when I've heard Butch spin the "Cressa Watson" version, it sounds absolutely identical to my Rita Lee one. So, is it the same or not ? Anyone confirm ?

I always thought that the Rita Lee (white label) was a 70's boot of Cressa Watson.

But l have never heard them side by side.

[Steve G]

Martha Starr is from South Carolina (recorded mostly in Detroit in the 60s before returning back to SC). Believe Cressa Watson was a Texas local gal. So two different people. Must admit I can't tell a difference between Rita and Cressa when heard out loud at a niter.

 

The difference is that one is a collectors holy grail single, the other isn't.

[Guest Ivor Jones]

I think its really strange this Rita Lee/Cresa Watson business. I believed[ can't remember who told me or if I read it somewhere] that the White/lilac Rita Lee was a repress done by the label owner back in the 70s.So, not a boot as such,just a repress by the legal owner of the track. Anyone confirm ? I used to see them around a bit….not any more. When I first heard it,I thought it was good and made an effort to try and get a proper one. Gave up in the end because it was just a fruitless task but I must have tried for 10 years. During that time I was told that the Rita Lee was definitely on a Yellow label/green text original by someone who claimed to have owned one back in the day.

 So, my question is,does the Rita Lee actually exist in that original format ? or, does the track only exist in its original Yellow/Green text format as "Cresa Watson" ? My guess is the track is identical anyway, certainly sounds it to my ears.

  Thing is, if it does exist as both Rita & Cresa as originals why is it so rare ? Its all very odd.

  There must be a fair few of these sitting around in old Northern collections I would have thought wouldn't you ?

Also, if its so rare,then why was it never recognised as such until recent times ? Or was it and I just never knew ?

What do you think ?

Edited January 20, 2015 by Ivor Jones

[Rich B]

The copy of Cresa Watson I had, had her name crossed out in green felt tip with Rita Lee written on in the same pen. Same backing track as Robert Thomas and the Men from Macon. I vaguely recall that Rita Lee is a different vocal.

 

I recorded it when I sold up, I'll try to put it on refosoul.

[Chalky]

The Rita Lee was done for the scene by the owner, as were other releases.  Brad or Barrie Wadd were in touch with him at one time.

 

i thought Cresa and Rita were slightly different when listened to in the cold ligt of the day.  Listened to them both round at Andy's but it was a few years ago.  Will try and compare them.

[Rich B]

Dug out the mp3 of Cresa Watson from my iTunes, but Refosoul tells me I can't start a new topic (which I presume I would have to do to upload it) anyone able to help?

[Guest miff]

Round here Grimsby / Cleethorpes about 1977 every second hand record shop hand stacks of the white/lilac Rita Lee men from Marcon 45 in many different states of condition from mint downwards, just don't see how it can be a boot. It wasn't that popular at that time

I can go with the repress theory as in a re badge of a previous released 45 as in Cresa Watson renamed Rita Lee but to say they where redone for the northern scene makes no scence they were flogging them for 10 pence a piece and why so many in different states of condition

or are we saying they were done early 70s

[Davetay]

I think its really strange this Rita Lee/Cresa Watson business. I believed[ can't remember who told me or if I read it somewhere] that the White/lilac Rita Lee was a repress done by the label owner back in the 70s.So, not a boot as such,just a repress by the legal owner of the track. Anyone confirm ? I used to see them around a bit….not any more. When I first heard it,I thought it was good and made an effort to try and get a proper one. Gave up in the end because it was just a fruitless task but I must have tried for 10 years. During that time I was told that the Rita Lee was definitely on a Yellow label/green text original by someone who claimed to have owned one back in the day.

 So, my question is,does the Rita Lee actually exist in that original format ? or, does the track only exist in its original Yellow/Green text format as "Cresa Watson" ? My guess is the track is identical anyway, certainly sounds it to my ears.

  Thing is, if it does exist as both Rita & Cresa as originals why is it so rare ? Its all very odd.

  There must be a fair few of these sitting around in old Northern collections I would have thought wouldn't you ?

Also, if its so rare,then why was it never recognised as such until recent times ? Or was it and I just never knew ?

What do you think ?

I knew the yellow copy was rare back than 3 or 4 copies around, l also had the inst on yellow label as well.

I seen to remember the inst on yellow label was not shown as Men From Macon, but Men From Mecca.

[Steve L]

Round here Grimsby / Cleethorpes about 1977 every second hand record shop hand stacks of the white/lilac Rita Lee men from Marcon 45 in many different states of condition from mint downwards, just don't see how it can be a boot. It wasn't that popular at that time

I can go with the repress theory as in a re badge of a previous released 45 as in Cresa Watson renamed Rita Lee but to say they where redone for the northern scene makes no scence they were flogging them for 10 pence a piece and why so many in different states of condition

or are we saying they were done early 70s

 

Bought Rita Lee from Syd Booths in Mansfield, brand new same as all the other pressings of that era.

Always classed it as such.

[Dave Thorley]

I have every version on issue and demo, and an acetate that plays backwords at 33 1/3rd and has Cresa singing Butch is king, Butch is king

[Louise]

I have every version on issue and demo, and an acetate that plays backwords at 33 1/3rd and has Cresa singing Butch is king, Butch is king

Hey Dave

Surely if it plays backwards she's singing "gink si hctub

evad

[Diddy Morgan]

im glad thats all been clarified anyway robert thomas is the best version , and thats cos thats the one i got lol

[Nsg]

On 02/09/2015 at 23:46, diddy morgan said:

im glad thats all been clarified anyway robert thomas is the best version , and thats cos thats the one i got lol

I agree and if my memory serves me correctly...... Ginger played the "Cresa version" at KGH last time I went before Xmas  ...........

[Chalky]

2 hours ago, NSG said:

I agree and if my memory serves me correctly...... Ginger played the "Cresa version" at KGH last time I went before Xmas  ...........

Sure it wasn't Andy Dyson?

[Guest smudgesmith]

On 18 January 2015 at 13:14, Dave Turner said:

Not wishing to re-align the thread but just came across this post from about 7 years back re Major Bill Smith.

 

Makes a lot more sense and easier to understand than Bill Smith's numbering system and releases  

 

Part of the conspiracy is that in 1972, Kentucky, Texas recording producer man Colonel Bill Sanders paid Ian Levine to go into the studio, in league with Frank Popp, a child prodigy who was four at the time, to make all these recordings. Steve Brookstein does all the vocals on every Charay or Le Cam release, apart from those by Pic and Bill, who are actually Frankie and Johnny, who are Frankie Howard and June Whitfield on the earlier releases, and Terry Scott (of The Scott Brothers and The Whispers, a group which included brothers Wally and Wally Scott of The Reflections and Tony Micheals who did the original version of '6X6' on the spoons) and June Whitfield (who's big hit 'The Human Race' was voiced by Junie Morrison of the Ohio Players who used to be The Ohio Untouchables, and Indian group of low caste and who's members at one time included Wilson Pickett (Brian Wilson of The Beach Boys brother) Eddie Floyd, (brother of King Floyd and Floyd Smith) Sir Mack Rice, who did the original version of The Blues Brothers 'Mustang Sally' (written of course about Sally Sagoe who is Jean Carn under another name) and "It Takes One To Know One" originally by Larry Grayson and Micheal Portillo)
All the records on Charay and Le Cam including the rare alternate Tony Micheals vocal of "6 X 6" on Musicor and earlier, Marks and Spencers and an obscure track by The Volumes called 'Lady in Red' (later cover by Chris Rea of The Ostriches) were released on the 'Pama' label which was named after the next door neighbour of the son of a friend of the Auntie of label owner Harry Palmer. No one has ever seen a copy of any of these records on Pama or heard any of them so they must be really good.
That all true that is.  

That's what I heard Dave,pretty straightforward really lol

[Nige Brown]

1 hour ago, chalky said:

Sure it wasn't Andy Dyson?

I wasnt there but i think it May have been Ginger,,, 

He now has a copy ,,,  ive seen it and hes on a coupler of hours before Andy D,, id put money on him playing it first,, 

[Guest julesp1905]

How rare is Cresa Watson  You're No Good/If you've Stopped Loving Me Charay C-90 believe the one record of it on popsike was the one posted up on youtube. so certainly not commonly available

[Sebastian]

16 hours ago, julesp1905 said:

How rare is Cresa Watson  You're No Good/If you've Stopped Loving Me Charay C-90 believe the one record of it on popsike was the one posted up on youtube. so certainly not commonly available

That one is also very, very rare.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Sebastian

[mshoals]

 

16 hours ago, julesp1905 said:

How rare is Cresa Watson  You're No Good/If you've Stopped Loving Me Charay C-90 believe the one record of it on popsike was the one posted up on youtube. so certainly not commonly available

I guess that was the original release of Charay 90, because it has consecutive LH matrix numbers (5345/5346).

[Guest julesp1905]

35 minutes ago, Sebastian said:

That one is also very, very rare.

C-90 appears to have three releases https://www.discogs.com/artist/135994-Cresa-Watson 

I've got a nice clean copy of  You're No Good/If you've Stopped Loving Me, You're No Good has gone done well on the few times I've played it out

 

[Nsg]

On 13/01/2016 at 18:59, Nige Brown said:

I wasnt there but i think it May have been Ginger,,, 

He now has a copy ,,,  ive seen it and hes on a coupler of hours before Andy D,, id put money on him playing it first,, 

Def Ginger and Nige, you where def there too as you played me Earl Grant ( KGH - 26th September 2015 ) :-)