Pete S Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 Milton Wright is not a bootleg, it's a legitimately pressed record. But it was pressed only for the Northern scene, it wasn't 'released' and is therefore a custom pressing of which there is no 60's original. Doesn't make it any less rare than an original which only sold 300 copies, but to me it'll always be a pressing and I sell it as such, on the rare occasion I get it - 3 so far - £20, £40, £50. Next one may be slightly higher.
Mick Holdsworth Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 Nothing to do with the auction price or even the vinyl aspect of the songs (Milton Wright), but there have always been two schools of thought regarding this. One is that it was an original recording that JA released from original tapes. The second was that the vocals were only recorded in the seventies, making it a "modern" custom recording for the scene (similar to Baby You're The Fire" etc.) Although I don't think many thought it was a fake, reading John A's email further up, at least that has been resolved (if there was any doubt in the first place). Cheers Mick
Mal C Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 I bought the Huns review last summer, paid 250ish, surely it can't be worth much more.... or is it? is this now the going rate, has JM set a precedence ? bought Huns Review for £40 back in the early 9ts, how prices change.. when I sold it in 99, it took an age to go... prefer 'danger Zone' personally, much better track.. M
Labeat Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 bought Huns Review for £40 back in the early 9ts, how prices change.. when I sold it in 99, it took an age to go... prefer 'danger Zone' personally, much better track.. M Well i'm a sucker for paying way over the price, nowadays, of stuff i bought "realistically" back in the day, not often i do mind. There just seems no end in sight to prices "going through the roof"
Lambretta Gp 200 Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 Anyone paying that much for a pressing - well, good luck to them. if you class the milton wright as a pressing but was done legal and above board what would you class the darrel banks that as just gone for big money would you class it as a pressing or legal first issue or a boot ?
Pete S Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 if you class the milton wright as a pressing but was done legal and above board what would you class the darrel banks that as just gone for big money would you class it as a pressing or legal first issue or a boot ? It's an original British issue - nothing cloudy about that one.
Labeat Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 if you class the milton wright as a pressing but was done legal and above board what would you class the darrel banks that as just gone for big money would you class it as a pressing or legal first issue or a boot ? I think a high court judge should preside over this debacle
Pete S Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 John Anderson made the records in 1977. It's not an original 60's release. It's a legal, made for the scene special pressing. It's no rarer than any of the other pressings from the 70's that had 300 copies made. What is there to actually argue about? Look if people want to pay £400 for a pressing then that's absolutely fine. Next time I get one, I will list it as a pressing a price it accordingly, like I always do. I might stretch it to £75 this time. 2
Dave Pinch Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 It's an original British issue - nothing cloudy about that one. apart from the not having permission to release it lol
Dave Pinch Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 I think a high court judge should preside over this debacle neil.. theres several high court judges on here already without any more 1
Pete S Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 apart from the not having permission to release it lol Lots of records get withdrawn for whatever reason though - Wayne Fontana for a start - you wouldn't say it's not the original British issue though 1
Lambretta Gp 200 Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 apart from the not having permission to release it lol so wouldn't that make it a bootleg even though it's on a major label
Pete S Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 so wouldn't that make it a bootleg even though it's on a major label Record companies like London / Decca didn't make bootlegs
Chalky Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 so wouldn't that make it a bootleg even though it's on a major label Richard Searling told the story of the two companies trying to release this, both dealing with different executives at Revilot apparently. He also told of copies being delivered to Decca's Manchester distribution warehouse in readiness for release. The London release was withdrawn so how can it be a bootleg? All copies ordered destroyed but you can't account for light fingered plant workers.
Chalky Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 apart from the not having permission to release it lol They didn't release it though did they
Dave Pinch Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 They didn't release it though did they they had a go.... but common sense has to prevail...no one in their right mind would call it a boot..or wayne fontana...some guys dont value anything on british..or foreign issues ....or playin off lps for that matter...then theres the issue of stuff that never came out before... not even sure why anything but the sale price has been questioned about milton wright 1
Labeat Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 "Something keeps calling me back" to this thread
Pete S Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 they had a go.... but common sense has to prevail...no one in their right mind would call it a boot..or wayne fontana...some guys dont value anything on british..or foreign issues ....or playin off lps for that matter...then theres the issue of stuff that never came out before... not even sure why anything but the sale price has been questioned about milton wright But it hasn't has it Dave?
El Corol Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 Nothing to do with the auction price or even the vinyl aspect of the songs (Milton Wright), but there have always been two schools of thought regarding this. One is that it was an original recording that JA released from original tapes. The second was that the vocals were only recorded in the seventies, making it a "modern" custom recording for the scene (similar to Baby You're The Fire" etc.) Although I don't think many thought it was a fake, reading John A's email further up, at least that has been resolved (if there was any doubt in the first place). CheersMick Must admit I've always wondered about whether the vocals to this (and Spaceland) were recorded in the 70s. May be due to the way the LP sounds, just doesn't sound 60s, even for a 70s press (if that makes sense).
Pete S Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Must admit I've always wondered about whether the vocals to this (and Spaceland) were recorded in the 70s. May be due to the way the LP sounds, just doesn't sound 60s, even for a 70s press (if that makes sense). That's due to the compression used on the lp to make 20 tracks fit on one LP though. Plus how could Tony Hester record vocals to Spaceland if he was dead? 2
El Corol Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 That's due to the compression used on the lp to make 20 tracks fit on one LP though. Plus how could Tony Hester record vocals to Spaceland if he was dead? Thats a very good point!
Guest Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) But the Milton Wright is a legit first issue is it not regardless of how it came about? The same as Kent, Grapevine etc?I've found the Northern Soul scene has always considered "originals" to have been made and issued around the time of recording and promotion!Something that was recorded 30/40 years ago and never got released, was a record that never got released.Just because it comes out many years later on a bit of vinyl, historically means virtually nothing. Edited January 4, 2015 by Guest
Chalky Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 I've found the Northern Soul scene has always considered "originals" to have been made and issued around the time of recording and promotion! Something that was recorded 30/40 years ago and never got released, was a record that never got released. Just because it comes out many years later on a bit of vinyl, historically means virtually nothing. Unless they ars selling one for 300 odd quid 1
Guest Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Anyone paying that much for a pressing - well, good luck to them. Ruined what is a brilliant instrumental!
Mike Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Nothing to do with the auction price or even the vinyl aspect of the songs (Milton Wright), but there have always been two schools of thought regarding this. One is that it was an original recording that JA released from original tapes. The second was that the vocals were only recorded in the seventies, making it a "modern" custom recording for the scene (similar to Baby You're The Fire" etc.) Although I don't think many thought it was a fake, reading John A's email further up, at least that has been resolved (if there was any doubt in the first place). Cheers Mick from 2008 hon milton wrights take...
Mick Holdsworth Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 from 2008 hon milton wrights take... Great stuff, hadn't seen that before
Marc Forrest Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 from 2008 hon milton wrights take... So I understand Milton Wright correct, he never received any royalties for these tunes which he owns the rights to ? If thats the case the record in question surely is a bootleg ? And given the recent auction result surely the most expensive ever ? Almost more importantly..,if this is a bootleg and gets played at ususally OVO venues... ah, I better stop it now.
Pete S Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 So I understand Milton Wright correct, he never received any royalties for these tunes which he owns the rights to ? If thats the case the record in question surely is a bootleg ? And given the recent auction result surely the most expensive ever ? Almost more importantly..,if this is a bootleg and gets played at ususally OVO venues... ah, I better stop it now. John would have paid Ollie McLaughlin for use of the tapes - at that time he must have owned them, so when did Milton become owner?
Marc Forrest Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) John would have paid Ollie McLaughlin for use of the tapes - at that time he must have owned them, so when did Milton become owner? I doubt Milton bought the rights off Ollie. If he has them he will aways have had them, meaning hes been the owner since recording these tunes.. He complains bout not having received any royalties so I believe he is on about said release ? Being a judge he will have known that making a claim like this in public without being in the right to do so would be at least useless...if not already against the law. If John paid royalties to Ollie he will have thought to release a proper record. All in good faith I understand. Maybe even Ollie thought he had teh rights, again in good faith. Still, it would make it nothing else but a bootleg. If of course Milton owns the rights. Edited January 5, 2015 by Marc Forrest
Soul-slider Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 bought Huns Review for £40 back in the early 9ts, how prices change.. when I sold it in 99, it took an age to go... prefer 'danger Zone' personally, much better track.. M Got my first copy for 10p off a car boot. Traded it on for £60 worth of tunes with my mate Perry. Missed having it around so got another off ebay for £50, class act. I see 'Danger Zone' is a Wilson Pickett tune, was it ever released by him?
Labeat Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Got my first copy for 10p off a car boot. Traded it on for £60 worth of tunes with my mate Perry. Missed having it around so got another off ebay for £50, class act. I see 'Danger Zone' is a Wilson Pickett tune, was it ever released by him? 50 for Huns review? please don't tell me you got it recently at that price
Soul-slider Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 50 for Huns review? please don't tell me you got it recently at that price Naa, about 7 year back. 1
pow wow mik Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 So I understand Milton Wright correct, he never received any royalties for these tunes which he owns the rights to ? If thats the case the record in question surely is a bootleg ? And given the recent auction result surely the most expensive ever ? Almost more importantly..,if this is a bootleg and gets played at ususally OVO venues... ah, I better stop it now. in djing terms, a bootleg is acceptable if its the first or only release, must be 100s of examples of this. It's re-issues that are the no-no! ]
Labeat Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 in djing terms, a bootleg is acceptable if its the first or only release, must be 100s of examples of this. It's re-issues that are the no-no! ] Mik, can we say it's only acceptable if everybody agree's Unless a survey is done it will always be a grey area
Chalky Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 I doubt Milton bought the rights off Ollie. If he has them he will aways have had them, meaning hes been the owner since recording these tunes.. He complains bout not having received any royalties so I believe he is on about said release ? Being a judge he will have known that making a claim like this in public without being in the right to do so would be at least useless...if not already against the law. If John paid royalties to Ollie he will have thought to release a proper record. All in good faith I understand. Maybe even Ollie thought he had teh rights, again in good faith. Still, it would make it nothing else but a bootleg. If of course Milton owns the rights. Milton may own the rights as writer but Ollie probably owns the masters unless there was a contract to stipulate ownership was Milton Wright's.
pow wow mik Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 What is this? Everything I say is obviously only my opinion, or do I have to use that old passive/aggressive favourite :'IMO' all the time. point I'm making is : we dont have a clue whether the artists got paid or rubber-dicked on loads of old records ; lots may be technically boots without us knowing, in the same way that this might be. And its not for me to have to find out whether the right parties were paid for the rights to a record every time; knowing the order of release is relatively a far less grey area. also, the legality issue is important in general moral terms, but not relevent to djing; legality isnt a major part of the djing code. 2
Labeat Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 What is this? Everything I say is obviously only my opinion, or do I have to use that old passive/aggressive favourite :'IMO' all the time. point I'm making is : we dont have a clue whether the artists got paid or rubber-dicked on loads of old records ; lots may be technically boots without us knowing, in the same way that this might be. And its not for me to have to find out whether the right parties were paid for the rights to a record every time; knowing the order of release is relatively a far less grey area. also, the legality issue is important in general moral terms, but not relevent to djing; legality isnt a major part of the djing code. Your opinions are as valued as every members!
Benji Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 I see 'Danger Zone' is a Wilson Pickett tune, was it ever released by him? Yes. 1
AlanB Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 Anyone paying that much for a pressing - well, good luck to them. I don't think so. It's probably just some kind of miracles of christmas. I was already gobsmacked when it went 200+. It's been a bubbling-under lesser known for decades and was, from what I remember, a 50/75 tune for many many years. But that's the power of massive plays. Maybe I'll make my copy available for the market now? A copy sold on Ebay tonight for £418.
Pete S Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 A copy sold on Ebay tonight for £418. There's one born every minute
El Corol Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Will some DJ just get behind The Happy Cats - Destroy That Boy (in my opinion the superior version over the unknown artist copy) as I've been stockpiling these for ages and now have at least 85 copies to shift, and I can claim its an original issue, or can I?
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