Jump to content

John Manship Auction Results 31 - 12 - 2014


JOE TORQUAY

Recommended Posts

Milton Wright is not a bootleg, it's a legitimately pressed record.  But it was pressed only for the Northern scene, it wasn't 'released' and is therefore a custom pressing of which there is no 60's original.  Doesn't make it any less rare than an original which only sold 300 copies, but to me it'll always be a pressing and I sell it as such, on the rare occasion I get it - 3 so far - £20, £40, £50.  Next one may be slightly higher.

Link to comment
Social source share

Nothing to do with the auction price or even the vinyl aspect of the songs (Milton Wright), but there have always been two schools of thought regarding this. One is that it was an original recording that JA released from original tapes. The second was that the vocals were only recorded in the seventies, making it a "modern" custom recording for the scene (similar to Baby You're The Fire" etc.)

 

Although I don't think many thought it was a fake, reading John A's email further up, at least that has been resolved (if there was any doubt in the first place).

 

Cheers

Mick

Link to comment
Social source share

I bought the Huns review last summer, paid 250ish, surely it can't be worth much more.... or is it? is this now the going rate, has JM set a precedence ?

bought Huns Review for £40 back in the early 9ts, how prices change.. when I sold it in 99, it took an age to go... prefer 'danger Zone' personally, much better track..

 

M

Link to comment
Social source share

bought Huns Review for £40 back in the early 9ts, how prices change.. when I sold it in 99, it took an age to go... prefer 'danger Zone' personally, much better track..

 

M

 

Well i'm a sucker for paying way over the price, nowadays, of stuff i bought "realistically" back in the day, not often i do mind.

There just seems no end in sight to prices "going through the roof" :(

Link to comment
Social source share

if you class the milton wright as a pressing but was done legal and above board what would you class the darrel banks that as just gone for big money would you class it as a pressing or legal first issue or a boot ?

 

It's an original British issue - nothing cloudy about that one.

Link to comment
Social source share

if you class the milton wright as a pressing but was done legal and above board what would you class the darrel banks that as just gone for big money would you class it as a pressing or legal first issue or a boot ?

 

I think a high court judge should preside over this debacle :huh:

Link to comment
Social source share

John Anderson made the records in 1977.  It's not an original 60's release.  It's a legal, made for the scene special pressing.  It's no rarer than any of the other pressings from the 70's that had 300 copies made.  What is there to actually argue about?

Look if people want to pay £400 for a pressing then that's absolutely fine.  Next time I get one, I will list it as a pressing a price it accordingly, like I always do.  I might stretch it to £75 this time.  

  • Helpful 2
Link to comment
Social source share

so wouldn't that make it a bootleg even though it's on a major label

Richard Searling told the story of the two companies trying to release this, both dealing with different executives at Revilot apparently.  He also told of copies being delivered to Decca's Manchester distribution warehouse in readiness for release. 

 

The London release was withdrawn so how can it be a bootleg?  All copies ordered destroyed but you can't account for light fingered plant workers.  

Link to comment
Social source share

They didn't release it though did they

they had a go.... but common sense has to prevail...no one in their right mind would call it a boot..or wayne fontana...some guys dont value anything on british..or foreign issues ....or playin off lps for that matter...then theres the issue of stuff that never came out before... not even sure why anything but the sale price has been questioned about milton wright

  • Helpful 1
Link to comment
Social source share


they had a go.... but common sense has to prevail...no one in their right mind would call it a boot..or wayne fontana...some guys dont value anything on british..or foreign issues ....or playin off lps for that matter...then theres the issue of stuff that never came out before... not even sure why anything but the sale price has been questioned about milton wright

 

But it hasn't has it Dave?

Link to comment
Social source share

Nothing to do with the auction price or even the vinyl aspect of the songs (Milton Wright), but there have always been two schools of thought regarding this. One is that it was an original recording that JA released from original tapes. The second was that the vocals were only recorded in the seventies, making it a "modern" custom recording for the scene (similar to Baby You're The Fire" etc.) Although I don't think many thought it was a fake, reading John A's email further up, at least that has been resolved (if there was any doubt in the first place). CheersMick

Must admit I've always wondered about whether the vocals to this (and Spaceland) were recorded in the 70s. May be due to the way the LP sounds, just doesn't sound 60s, even for a 70s press (if that makes sense).

Link to comment
Social source share

Must admit I've always wondered about whether the vocals to this (and Spaceland) were recorded in the 70s. May be due to the way the LP sounds, just doesn't sound 60s, even for a 70s press (if that makes sense).

 

That's due to the compression used on the lp to make 20 tracks fit on one LP though.  Plus how could Tony Hester record vocals to Spaceland if he was dead?

  • Helpful 2
Link to comment
Social source share

But the Milton Wright is a legit first issue is it not regardless of how it came about?  The same as Kent, Grapevine etc?

I've found the Northern Soul scene has always considered "originals" to have been made and issued around the time of recording and promotion!

Something that was recorded 30/40 years ago and never got released, was a record that never got released.

Just because it comes out many years later on a bit of vinyl, historically means virtually nothing.

Edited by Guest
Link to comment
Social source share

I've found the Northern Soul scene has always considered "originals" to have been made and issued around the time of recording and promotion!

Something that was recorded 30/40 years ago and never got released, was a record that never got released.

Just because it comes out many years later on a bit of vinyl, historically means virtually nothing.

 

Unless they ars selling one for 300 odd quid

  • Helpful 1
Link to comment
Social source share

Nothing to do with the auction price or even the vinyl aspect of the songs (Milton Wright), but there have always been two schools of thought regarding this. One is that it was an original recording that JA released from original tapes. The second was that the vocals were only recorded in the seventies, making it a "modern" custom recording for the scene (similar to Baby You're The Fire" etc.)

 

Although I don't think many thought it was a fake, reading John A's email further up, at least that has been resolved (if there was any doubt in the first place).

 

Cheers

Mick

 

from 2008 hon milton wrights take...

 

Link to comment
Social source share

from 2008 hon milton wrights take...

 

 

So I understand Milton Wright correct, he never received any royalties for these tunes which he owns the rights to ? If thats the case the record in question surely is a bootleg ? And given the recent auction result surely the most expensive ever ? Almost more importantly..,if this is a bootleg and gets played at ususally OVO venues...  ah, I better stop it now.

Link to comment
Social source share

So I understand Milton Wright correct, he never received any royalties for these tunes which he owns the rights to ? If thats the case the record in question surely is a bootleg ? And given the recent auction result surely the most expensive ever ? Almost more importantly..,if this is a bootleg and gets played at ususally OVO venues...  ah, I better stop it now.

 

John would have paid Ollie McLaughlin for use of the tapes - at that time he must have owned them, so when did Milton become owner?

Link to comment
Social source share

John would have paid Ollie McLaughlin for use of the tapes - at that time he must have owned them, so when did Milton become owner?

 

I doubt Milton bought the rights off Ollie. If he has them he will aways have had them, meaning hes been the owner since recording these tunes.. He complains bout not having received any royalties so I believe he is on about said release ? Being a judge he will have known that making a claim like this in public without being in the right to do so would be at least useless...if not already against the law. 

 

If John paid royalties to Ollie he will have thought to release  a proper record. All in good faith I understand. Maybe even Ollie thought he had teh rights, again in good faith. Still, it would make it nothing else but a bootleg. If of course Milton owns the rights.  

Edited by Marc Forrest
Link to comment
Social source share

bought Huns Review for £40 back in the early 9ts, how prices change.. when I sold it in 99, it took an age to go... prefer 'danger Zone' personally, much better track..

 

M

Got my first copy for 10p off a car boot. Traded it on for £60 worth of tunes with my mate Perry. Missed having it around so got another off ebay for £50, class act.

 

I see 'Danger Zone' is a Wilson Pickett tune, was it ever released by him? 

Link to comment
Social source share

Got my first copy for 10p off a car boot. Traded it on for £60 worth of tunes with my mate Perry. Missed having it around so got another off ebay for £50, class act.

 

I see 'Danger Zone' is a Wilson Pickett tune, was it ever released by him? 

50 for Huns review? please don't tell me you got it recently at that price :(

Link to comment
Social source share

So I understand Milton Wright correct, he never received any royalties for these tunes which he owns the rights to ? If thats the case the record in question surely is a bootleg ? And given the recent auction result surely the most expensive ever ? Almost more importantly..,if this is a bootleg and gets played at ususally OVO venues...  ah, I better stop it now.

in djing terms, a bootleg is acceptable if its the first or only release, must be 100s of examples of this. It's re-issues that are the no-no!

]

Link to comment
Social source share

in djing terms, a bootleg is acceptable if its the first or only release, must be 100s of examples of this. It's re-issues that are the no-no!

]

 

Mik, can we say it's only acceptable if everybody agree's :) Unless a survey is done it will always be a grey area :thumbsup:

Link to comment
Social source share


I doubt Milton bought the rights off Ollie. If he has them he will aways have had them, meaning hes been the owner since recording these tunes.. He complains bout not having received any royalties so I believe he is on about said release ? Being a judge he will have known that making a claim like this in public without being in the right to do so would be at least useless...if not already against the law. 

 

If John paid royalties to Ollie he will have thought to release  a proper record. All in good faith I understand. Maybe even Ollie thought he had teh rights, again in good faith. Still, it would make it nothing else but a bootleg. If of course Milton owns the rights.  

 

Milton may own the rights as writer but Ollie probably owns the masters unless there was a contract to stipulate ownership was Milton Wright's.

Link to comment
Social source share

What is this? Everything I say is obviously only my opinion, or do I have to use that old passive/aggressive favourite :'IMO' all the time.

point I'm making is : we dont have a clue whether the artists got paid or rubber-dicked on loads of old records ; lots may be technically boots without us knowing, in the same way that this might be. And its not for me to have to find out whether the right parties were paid for the rights to a record every time; knowing the order of release is relatively a far less grey area.

also, the legality issue is important in general moral terms, but not relevent to djing; legality isnt a major part of the djing code.

  • Helpful 2
Link to comment
Social source share

What is this? Everything I say is obviously only my opinion, or do I have to use that old passive/aggressive favourite :'IMO' all the time.

point I'm making is : we dont have a clue whether the artists got paid or rubber-dicked on loads of old records ; lots may be technically boots without us knowing, in the same way that this might be. And its not for me to have to find out whether the right parties were paid for the rights to a record every time; knowing the order of release is relatively a far less grey area.

also, the legality issue is important in general moral terms, but not relevent to djing; legality isnt a major part of the djing code.

 

Your opinions are as valued as every members!

Link to comment
Social source share

Anyone paying that much for a pressing - well, good luck to them.

 

I don't think so. It's probably just some kind of miracles of christmas.

 

I was already gobsmacked when it went 200+. It's been a bubbling-under lesser known for decades and was, from what I remember, a 50/75 tune for many many years. But that's the power of massive plays. Maybe I'll make my copy available for the market now?

 

A copy sold on Ebay tonight for £418.

Link to comment
Social source share

Will some DJ just get behind The Happy Cats - Destroy That Boy (in my opinion the superior version over the unknown artist copy) as I've been stockpiling these for ages and now have at least 85 copies to shift, and I can claim its an original issue, or can I?

Link to comment
Social source share

Get involved with Soul Source

Add your comments now

Join Soul Source

A free & easy soul music affair!

Join Soul Source now!

Log in to Soul Source

Jump right back in!

Log in now!


×
×
  • Create New...