Pete S Posted August 14, 2006 Posted August 14, 2006 (edited) This must be the easiest thing to collect, there's so many red and white and green and white demos on Ebay every single day that if you had the money you could probably get all the 500's within say 2 months. Makes you wonder why these are considered rare really. So if someone wants to lend me the money I'll collect them for you Edited August 14, 2006 by Pete-S
Guest TONY ROUNCE Posted August 14, 2006 Posted August 14, 2006 Pete's not the only one to have noticed this. It backs up a belief I've always held, which is that the only really rare TM R&W/G&W's are those that are of the biggest hits. Issues of things like the Spinners' "Sweet Thing" are virtually non-existent by comparison with the demo. Try, by contrast, to find an EX++ to mint demo of "Jimmy Mack", "Ain't Too Proud To Beg" or "Reach Out, I'll Be There"... TONE
macca Posted August 14, 2006 Posted August 14, 2006 I'm looking for beauty's only skin deep. anybody got one to sell por favor?
Guest TONY ROUNCE Posted August 14, 2006 Posted August 14, 2006 I'm looking for beauty's only skin deep. anybody got one to sell por favor? One of THE hardest R & W's to find, as I'm sure you'll have realised. Apart from TMG 525, which doesn't exist other than in the issue format... TONE
Guest recordman Posted August 14, 2006 Posted August 14, 2006 R&W's G&W's they are all reissues of the original demo The White American Copy which is THE original demo
Pete S Posted August 14, 2006 Author Posted August 14, 2006 R&W's G&W's they are all reissues of the original demo The White American Copy which is THE original demo So what about No One Can Love You More then?
Guest recordman Posted August 14, 2006 Posted August 14, 2006 So what about No One Can Love You More then? OK so what about Do I Love You dont recall a R&W or G&W
Pete S Posted August 14, 2006 Author Posted August 14, 2006 OK so what about Do I Love You dont recall a R&W or G&W US Motown issued 100 times more than UK Motown so you can say the same thing about hundreds of records. Don't see what your point is.
Guest recordman Posted August 14, 2006 Posted August 14, 2006 US Motown issued 100 times more than UK Motown so you can say the same thing about hundreds of records. Don't see what your point is. My Original Point Was All White Motown Demos Issued In The US Are The First Issue Of The Motown Company's Output
Pete S Posted August 14, 2006 Author Posted August 14, 2006 My Original Point Was All White Motown Demos Issued In The US Are The First Issue Of The Motown Company's Output Yeah, except for the ones that were issued in the UK but not the USA, so it's just going to go round in circles all night
Cheltsoulnights Posted August 14, 2006 Posted August 14, 2006 This must be the easiest thing to collect, there's so many red and white and green and white demos on Ebay every single day that if you had the money you could probably get all the 500's within say 2 months. Makes you wonder why these are considered rare really. So if someone wants to lend me the money I'll collect them for you well if you see a R/W demo of "I'm still loving you" let me know as only ever seen two ever
Dave Moore Posted August 14, 2006 Posted August 14, 2006 My Original Point Was All White Motown Demos Issued In The US Are The First Issue Of The Motown Company's Output Err, not strictly true. Check out M-1011 or a number of others that weren't white (not the all of them anyway). Pedantic - Yep, I suppose so but it's all good fun innit? Regards, Dave www.theresthatbeat.com www.hitsvillesoulclub.com
Steve G Posted August 15, 2006 Posted August 15, 2006 This must be the easiest thing to collect, there's so many red and white and green and white demos on Ebay every single day that if you had the money you could probably get all the 500's within say 2 months. Makes you wonder why these are considered rare really. So if someone wants to lend me the money I'll collect them for you Anyone on here know how many they actually pressed up?
macca Posted August 15, 2006 Posted August 15, 2006 Err, not strictly true. Check out M-1011 or a number of others that weren't white (not the all of them anyway). Pedantic - Yep, I suppose so but it's all good fun innit? Regards, Dave www.theresthatbeat.com www.hitsvillesoulclub.com pedantic no, just committed old chap. "don't turn away" beat ballad (hate that term) is the dog's gonads. where art thou?
Dayo Posted August 15, 2006 Posted August 15, 2006 You struggle to find a green and white demo of Edwin Starr Oh How Happy (original issue. Rare as rare.
Stateside Posted August 16, 2006 Posted August 16, 2006 Had a G & W demo of "No one there" but have also seen black with a silver A demo also G & W demo of "No one could love you more" -
Dave Moore Posted August 16, 2006 Posted August 16, 2006 Not sure we're on the same sheet of music here, it was me being pedantic I was refering to. But here's a toughie on US Demo, especially in MINT. Also came out as a White Demo, a Pink issue and a Blue stocker! M-1011 :
Dave Moore Posted August 16, 2006 Posted August 16, 2006 Here's another "non-white" demo that's quite hard. (Damn those pluggers and their damned xol's....Damn their eyes!!) Gordy 7020 Regards, Dave www.theresthatbeat.com www.hitsvillesoulclub.com
45cellar Posted August 16, 2006 Posted August 16, 2006 (edited) Here's another "non-white" demo that's quite hard. (Damn those pluggers and their damned xol's....Damn their eyes!!) Gordy 7020 Regards, Dave www.theresthatbeat.com www.hitsvillesoulclub.com Hi Dave Definitely hard to find, the coloured DEMO's - I've only got 2 which I've scanned. The first Gordy 7047 was a suprise when I opened the mailer, as I bought it as a DEMO but had no pic on listing. The usual White DEMO as centre pic Gordy 7054 was the Type of DEMO I expected to see. The second coloured demo Gordy 7028 was listed with a Pic, but as an issue and I won with my bid, couldn't believe it. Worth a second glance with some of the issues for this reason. I have seen a couple of Coloured V.I.P. DEMO's, but you can't win them all. Looking forward to the new magazine - www.theresthatbeat.com - Subsribed today - Can't wait. Edited August 16, 2006 by 45cellar
Guest Rich Posted August 16, 2006 Posted August 16, 2006 (edited) Anyone on here know how many they actually pressed up? Did read somewhere - can't think where though - that the number was not massive, and the rule of thumb was round about 100-150. But hey I'm no expert on this, I've never been a big 'label' collector - I've never been able to get my head around buying records I don't like just to fill hole's in (although I'd hazard a guess that there's not many kippers in the TMG5** series). Edited August 16, 2006 by Rich
Guest WPaulVanDyk Posted August 17, 2006 Posted August 17, 2006 sorry if i go off topic here but would there have been any demo/promo copies of motown singles that didn't get a commercial release say like a Temptations single as there could be good ways of getting Northern soul singles played instead of your usual single tracks played
Steve G Posted August 17, 2006 Posted August 17, 2006 Did read somewhere - can't think where though - that the number was not massive, and the rule of thumb was round about 100-150. But hey I'm no expert on this, I've never been a big 'label' collector - I've never been able to get my head around buying records I don't like just to fill hole's in (although I'd hazard a guess that there's not many kippers in the TMG5** series). I agree and say that as a label collector I just couldn't bring myself to buy the kippers - there are quite a few in the 500 series. I agree and say that as a label collector I just couldn't bring myself to buy the kippers - there are quite a few in the 500 series. While we're on the subject vaguely does anyone know what the stamped on numbers are for on London demos. I used to think it was some sort of cataloging system for where the demos went, but have recently noticed that A and B side numbers are different. Most of mine are two hundred and something e.g. 235?
Cheltsoulnights Posted August 17, 2006 Posted August 17, 2006 You struggle to find a green and white demo of Edwin Starr Oh How Happy (original issue. Rare as rare. well blow me down the kim weston and the edwin 45's are on ebay now
Pete S Posted August 17, 2006 Author Posted August 17, 2006 I agree and say that as a label collector I just couldn't bring myself to buy the kippers - there are quite a few in the 500 series. While we're on the subject vaguely does anyone know what the stamped on numbers are for on London demos. I used to think it was some sort of cataloging system for where the demos went, but have recently noticed that A and B side numbers are different. Most of mine are two hundred and something e.g. 235? Oh Steve, you're going to kick yourself now, those numbers (235) etc, are the running time of the track!
Steve G Posted August 17, 2006 Posted August 17, 2006 Oh Steve, you're going to kick yourself now, those numbers (235) etc, are the running time of the track! Priceless - well another mystery solved. You know I never figured that out in all those years well blow me down the kim weston and the edwin 45's are on ebay now The Kim Weston looks pretty knack'd though
bri pinch Posted August 17, 2006 Posted August 17, 2006 slightly off the brit motown topic , i always thought the multi coloured us promo,s were mainly west coast presses. best, bri.
Dave Moore Posted August 17, 2006 Posted August 17, 2006 slightly off the brit motown topic , i always thought the multi coloured us promo,s were mainly west coast presses. best, bri. Hi bri, What makes you suspect that? Have to say the color on the Gordy coloured label is always a little deeper. brighter so it looks like they may well have all come from the same place? You may well be right, I just wondered if you had any terms of reference. Regards, Dave www.theresthatbeat.com www.hitsvillesoulclub.com
Guest mickmac Posted August 19, 2006 Posted August 19, 2006 So how rare would a Dalton boys coloured VIP "demo" be then? Anyone any idea please?
Guest TONY ROUNCE Posted August 19, 2006 Posted August 19, 2006 (edited) Hi bri, What makes you suspect that? Have to say the color on the Gordy coloured label is always a little deeper. brighter so it looks like they may well have all come from the same place? You may well be right, I just wondered if you had any terms of reference. Regards, Dave www.theresthatbeat.com www.hitsvillesoulclub.com I've never owned one of these coloured-label demos, Dave, but would I be right in thinking that all the ones you've seen/owened are styrene rather than vinyl pressings? If is, that almost certainly marks them down as West Coast and pressed by Monarch. I believe that all of the other pressing plants that Motown used across the USA in the 60s pressed vinyl. TONE Edited August 19, 2006 by TONY ROUNCE
45cellar Posted August 19, 2006 Posted August 19, 2006 So how rare would a Dalton boys coloured VIP "demo" be then? Anyone any idea please? I have the Daltom Boys on a White DEMO, the only ones I've ever seen are White. I would suspect that It's Extremely Rare - What is on the B' Side? I have seen R Dean Taylor - Ghost In My House - On a Coloured V.I.P. DEMO on ebay, can't remember what It went for.
45cellar Posted August 19, 2006 Posted August 19, 2006 (edited) Hi bri, What makes you suspect that? Have to say the color on the Gordy coloured label is always a little deeper. brighter so it looks like they may well have all come from the same place? You may well be right, I just wondered if you had any terms of reference. Regards, Dave www.theresthatbeat.com www.hitsvillesoulclub.com I've never owned one of these coloured-label demos, Dave, but would I be right in thinking that all the ones you've seen/owened are styrene rather than vinyl pressings? If is, that almost certainly marks them down as West Coast and pressed by Monarch. I believe that all of the other pressing plants that Motown used across the USA in the 60s pressed vinyl. TONE Hi Dave, Hi TONE There is a Mixture of Matrix Marks on the 2 Coloured DEMO's I've got, both are Styrene, notice RCA STAMPED Matrix as well as Monarch? The only other Styrene Motown I'm aware of are ZTSC Matrix THE TEMPTATIONS - Don't Look Back - Scratched"Delta 58867" Stamped Monarch Matrix Scratched "W-LI-V-140314" Stamped "S K 4 M -2648-1-D" THE TEMPTATIONS - My Baby - Scratched "Delta 58868" Stamped Monarch Matrix Scratched "WIV-153308" Stamped "S K 4 M -2647-1-D" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- THE TEMPTATIONS - The Way You Do The Things You Do - Scratched "DM-W-067219" Monarch Matrix "Delta 51064" THE TEMPTATIONS - Just Let Me Know - Stamped P K 4 M - - 8018 - 8 - 1 Monarch Matrix Scratched "DMB-064226" "Delta 51063" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Out of Interest, by chance I've just pulled a White DEMO "Delta 71382" Styrene with a Similar Stamped RCA /Monarch Mixed Matrix out of it's Sleeve. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Would I be right to assume West Coast DEMO It certainly makes things a little clearer if the Monarchs are the West Coast. As a few Stock copies in my collection are Styrene Monarch ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edited August 19, 2006 by 45cellar
Pete S Posted August 19, 2006 Author Posted August 19, 2006 I have the Daltom Boys on a White DEMO, the only ones I've ever seen are White. I would suspect that It's Extremely Rare - What is on the B' Side? I have seen R Dean Taylor - Ghost In My House - On a Coloured V.I.P. DEMO on ebay, can't remember what It went for. I had a coloured label Dalton Boys demo once, I didn't know it was any rarer than the (stamped) white one, so I sold it for 60 quid..
Guest TONY ROUNCE Posted August 19, 2006 Posted August 19, 2006 Hi Dave, Hi TONE There is a Mixture of Matrix Marks on the 2 Coloured DEMO's I've got, both are Styrene, notice RCA STAMPED Matrix as well as Monarch? The only other Styrene Motown I'm aware of are ZTSC Matrix THE TEMPTATIONS - Don't Look Back - Scratched"Delta 58867" Stamped Monarch Matrix Scratched "W-LI-V-140314" Stamped "S K 4 M -2648-1-D" THE TEMPTATIONS - My Baby - Scratched "Delta 58868" Stamped Monarch Matrix Scratched "WIV-153308" Stamped "S K 4 M -2647-1-D" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- THE TEMPTATIONS - The Way You Do The Things You Do - Scratched "DM-W-067219" Monarch Matrix "Delta 51064" THE TEMPTATIONS - Just Let Me Know - Stamped P K 4 M - - 8018 - 8 - 1 Monarch Matrix Scratched "DMB-064226" "Delta 51063" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Out of Interest, by chance I've just pulled a White DEMO "Delta 71382" Styrene with a Similar Stamped RCA /Monarch Mixed Matrix out of it's Sleeve. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Would I be right to assume West Coast DEMO It certainly makes things a little clearer if the Monarchs are the West Coast. As a few Stock copies in my collection are Styrene Monarch ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Rog' ('n' Dave) Yes, this "Here I Am Baby" is definitely Monarch. You can always pick out Atlantic West Coast (i.e. Monarch) very easily, too - apart from the fact that they're styrene, they always have the matrix number shown on the labels as - for example - "A-12345-MO". TONE
45cellar Posted August 19, 2006 Posted August 19, 2006 (edited) Hi Rog' ('n' Dave) Yes, this "Here I Am Baby" is definitely Monarch. You can always pick out Atlantic West Coast (i.e. Monarch) very easily, too - apart from the fact that they're styrene, they always have the matrix number shown on the labels as - for example - "A-12345-MO". TONE Hi Tone Thanks for that, It's shed a new light on the collection - Checking through as we speak. It must have been a Logistical Nightmare for record companies at the time, all requiring time at the the various pressing plants. Strangly I notice Motown didn't use ZTSC much, apart from some of the Earlier releases Ric-Tic, Golden World etc appear to have had first call. Edited August 19, 2006 by 45cellar
Dave Moore Posted August 19, 2006 Posted August 19, 2006 Hi Guys, I'm a bit rushed here a the moment but I'll dig a few bits out later and try to contribute more. The Dalton Boys on VIP colored Demo is not particularly hard. The VIP colored Demos seem to be easier to come accross than the Gordy ones for some inexplicable reason. I just sold a Lollipops Double sided colored Demo to Mike Wilks. That is the hardest one in my experience. (Out of the ones I know of at least). Tone I never realised the West Coast copies had the Matrix #s on the labels before!! Doh! Thanks for the tip. Regards, Dave www.theesthatbeat.com www.hitsvillesoulclub.com www.soulclub.org
bri pinch Posted August 21, 2006 Posted August 21, 2006 uesd to have a v.i.p multi coloured demo of the lollipops, cheating is telling on you, same song both sides. twas styrene wi MR stamp and delta #. only sold it cos i got t,issue wi need your love. best bri.
Steve Ludkin Posted July 11 Posted July 11 On 14/08/2006 at 14:59, macca said: I'm looking for beauty's only skin deep. anybody got one to sell por favor?
Steve M Posted July 16 Posted July 16 Yvonne Fair Stay a little longer Soul has a multi coloured demo. The two copies on Discogs say vinyl but l’m sure l’ve seen styrene copy.
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