Top 500 'fans'...look Away Now

[Tony Smith]

Unless you like funk and r&b of course, in which case the quality of records played will have seriously improved.

You may have assumed that these diversifications have taken place due to people running out of the traditional style, but that isn't the case. Many people like music, and find embracing different styles rewarding, others actually prefer soul OTHER than trad northern, like me.

If that traditional northern soul sound is all you want then there's a whole nostalgia scene for you, maybe it's time to accept it.

maybe, as an upfront scene, northern soul IS dead, but soul lives on, in all it's forms. That's progress.

This seems a bit confused.

To prefer a traditional NS sound does not mean a liking for oldies based on nostalgia.

I'd suggest that the 45s put out on Kent Select or Kent Anni in the main fit the trad description but I don't think they're aimed at the oldies end of the scene. Nor would the punters who travel down to London describe themselves as oldies fans. I think they go to hear something new and fresh which is of equal quality to what has gone before, unless the Lambeth Walk has come back into fashion !

IMO the next Mello Souls Butch turns up will be far more popular/talked about/in demand than any R&B or funk 45.

 

As for progress I heard that back at the Mecca in 76/77 and at tail-end of Wigan but the 45s kept turning up that kept the scene going for another 30 years.

ROD

Lets hope Bob Sinclair doesn't hear about the Lambeth Walk!!

[Modernsoulsucks]

Well it isn't me that confused! I haven't a clue about northern soul, and certainly dont believe it to be dead as a progressive entity.

my post was in reponse to people on here who say that the dependence on either oldies on one hand, or associated sub-styles like r&b or funk on the other, is due to a deficit of newies in the traditional northern style.

I haven't a clue if there are proper northern newies to play or not, but was making the point that people dont necesarily play funk or r&b in a desperate attempt to play something new, as is often claimed, but because they really like funk & r&b, as much as northern style soul.

I know I do.

my ideal night simply plays great soul music, these nuances of genre that supposedly separate northern from funk from modern from northern from hard edged from r&b from popcorn...dont really mean anything to me.

While I'm sure most of the old school crowd are outraged at this concept of open minded soul appreciation, it is my bet that all the people lined up to inherit soul music and save it from nostalgic battle re-enactment oblivion on one hand or chin stroking trophy collecting middle aged blokey tedium on the other, feel pretty much the same as me.

remember, this genre of music we know as northern soul is so diverse as to be meaningless anyway, in a musical sense. It only exists as a construct of those who like it - like a collective version of individual taste.

there's no rule or theory anywhere that says it is a correct understanding of music, or even soul music. The original musicians wouldnt recognise it, neither do I.

Point being : evolution and progress seems to be discarding the old northern soul rules. Let it. If you like those rules, maybe the only place you're going to see them recognised is the oldies scene:

You're right - I am confused now.

 

What you call progress and evolution I just see as divergence no different than going off on some soulful house tip.

 

And I agree there are "rules" around NS but if I can use Burnley as an example where I think I've heard the funk and R&B you describe then their similarity in sound would suggest there are "rules" there too ?

 

Shame Pow Wow is an R&B nighter as it would have been interesting to compare the differences [if any] between the two rooms' playlists if you were playing the full range you refer to.

 

ROD

[Mike]

milk train moderating

 

 

most of the "stanky" related posts have been split into a new thread which can now be read here

 

 

ask please use that for any  further 'stanky' talk 

 

thanks

mike

[pow wow mik]

You're right - I am confused now.

What you call progress and evolution I just see as divergence no different than going off on some soulful house tip.

And I agree there are "rules" around NS but if I can use Burnley as an example where I think I've heard the funk and R&B you describe then their similarity in sound would suggest there are "rules" there too ?

Shame Pow Wow is an R&B nighter as it would have been interesting to compare the differences [if any] between the two rooms' playlists if you were playing the full range you refer to.

ROD

We're in agreement about progress / divergence - yes it's the same thing - and, as you said, it's probably been accused of diluting the music / ruining the scene since the 60s. All I'd say is thank god for it and that it tends to be the more musically minded who embrace variety and the most scene minded who dont.

I said my ideal night would be an open minded soul night, not that it was the way all nights should be, or that I was capable of doing it!

I've had to specialise and focus on r&b because I just couldn't afford to collect accross the board to the depth that I'd want to and also because I like specialist nights too.

I dont think of pow wow as an r&b club these days - it starts where Lifeline starts - with 60s club soul - and while Lifeline then explores later years and styles of soul, we explore earlier ones, between us covering 30odd years of time and a fantastically wide range of the best art humans ever produced.

But still we're not using that as a rule or over riding concept, we just both know the sounds we want to hear and we play them.

Without radically changing the music, or playing anything far-out, I think both clubs have moved on from 'northern soul' or 'mod' or such limiting identities.

Edited December 18, 2014 by pow wow mik

[Guest acky6859]

prefer the B side to be honest I've tried

The Stanky 45 was a £10 record until one night at one of my Burnley Allnighters a few years ago. Fred Krol dug it out and played it.

 

You wouldn't believe how many people ran up to the decks to see what it was.

 

Next day you couldn't find a copy on any of the dealers sites. The price shot up over night.

 

Fred is very embarrassed to be the man responsible for it's rise to stardom. However, I find it very poor form that the soul snobs on here are slamming it as such a bad record. At least it's a dance record, and I would far rather hear Stanky than most of the dirge that gets the plaudits from folk on this forum.

[Goldsoul]

Back on topic.......

In 1967 at the back of Record Mirror, Rock & Roll collectors were already searching for a very rare 10" by Johnny Burnette, which contained  ultimate dancers (Please Don't Leave, Train Kept A Rolling etc ). To this day, those tracks are still on DJ's playlists. 

Does it then come as any surprise that any chart wouldn't contain The Tomangoes, Salvadors or Checkerboard Squares?

 

The scene has changed and more and more underplayed and/or failed first time rounders are infiltrating the standard week in week out DJ sets. That's a win win all round.

Remember the dancer has the final say no matter how many times a DJ hammers a track. It's their call at the end of the day.

The discoverers of newer popular singles such as Jonathan Capree take a bow. Masses have heard them at bigger venues and bought in.

Larger venues need the Lifeline's, 100 Club's to be able to expose newer spins to ever growing NS audience.

 

Remember the crowd swelling has come in the last 5 years, so we have thousands playing catch up. It's going to take a while for The Ravins and similar to cut through, so hang on in there. Be proud that YOU ARE AWARE of this fantastic treasure chest available to us, but at the same time realise only a few non traditional discoveries will cut through.

With tons of R&B being collected, there isn't many that have busted out big time....but at least there's some(Willie John, JT Parker, Five Royales, Drifters etc). Same goes for Modern.....Hamilton Movement is now a solid gold hit on the Northern scene, much to bemused Modern crowd. The public make it that way not the promoters.

 

As for Stanky Get Funky, I refer to a comment I made earlier in the thread. The 45 was in serious quantity at Selecta Disc, Nottingham in 72/73.

In fact I remember Derek Allen(RIP) playing it at a Wednesday night disco in Heanor, Derbys with no interest from yours truly. If it were Cobblestone back then mate...it's Sounds of Lane(lol). Whoever revived it.....well done. Another interesting 45 for dancers to enjoy and dealers to make a buck on.

 

There's one chart in my opinion.....the most popular tracks in general across the UK. The new sub-scenes that have been bubbling heavily over the last decade or so are absolutely vital though to fuelling Top DJ's with suggestions of what might work in a larger arena.

Back in the day, the rotation of tracks was just as heavy as it is now. We were younger and never gave it a second thought...these days it's all scrutinised and debated heavily.

 

If you are a social person and enjoy the complete evolvement of Northern.....the scene(s) have never been healthier. And the crowds prove it.

 

PS It would be interesting to see a Top 20 'underground' plays over the last year, so we can see which ones break through to the Oldies brigade.

To be continued......

Edited December 18, 2014 by The Golden 101

[Guest acky6859]

FFS its like a karaoke night where was this ?

Surprised this wasn't on 'the list'.........always next year I suppose......

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGZHsUXOI64

[Goldsoul]

FFS its like a karaoke night where was this ?

Probably at Blackpool Tower. She certainly wasn't booked to sing anything except 'What' just before the Dance Final.

You can imagine the shock when she announced the performing of a new song titled 'Northern Soul' eeekkkk!

[Mace]

Probably at Blackpool Tower. She certainly wasn't booked to sing anything except 'What' just before the Dance Final.

You can imagine the shock when she announced the performing of a new song titled 'Northern Soul' eeekkkk!

Did she announce it just prior to performing it.....surely the backing track was on a CD in the decks ready?

The crowd look enthralled mind...it was a 'Golden' moment for sure!

Did it make it to CD or Vinyl?

Also, did she record anymore that are locked away in the archives (and rightly so!)......maybe due to be released as a future comp....

"Judy Street - The lost tracks - Goldmine Cat: KR1N9E"

Ha ha......so many questions....?

Edited December 18, 2014 by Mace

[Guest Matt Male]

Did she announce it just prior to performing it.....surely the backing track was on a CD in the decks ready?

The crowd look enthralled mind...it was a 'Golden' moment for sure!

Did it make it to CD or Vinyl?

Also, did she record anymore that are locked away in the archives (and rightly so!)......maybe due to be released as a future comp....

"Judy Street - The lost tracks - Goldmine Cat: CR1N9E"

Ha ha......so many questions....?

 

1.49 Mace. That's you leaving in disgust?

[Mace]

1.49 Mace. That's you leaving in disgust?

How the fcuk did you make it to 1.49 Matt??

Just edited the Cat number as missed a trick first time!

[Martyn Pitt]

How the fcuk did you make it to 1.49 Matt??

 

Turn the speakers off 

[Goldsoul]

Did she announce it just prior to performing it.....surely the backing track was on a CD in the decks ready?

The crowd look enthralled mind...it was a 'Golden' moment for sure!

Did it make it to CD or Vinyl?

Also, did she record anymore that are locked away in the archives (and rightly so!)......maybe due to be released as a future comp....

"Judy Street - The lost tracks - Goldmine Cat: KR1N9E"

Ha ha......so many questions....?

Mace-- Ha Ha!

Who honestly outside of Butlins would hire Judy Street to sing a self penned song called Northern Soul?

She was a perfect act for that venue to enjoy the anthem What and that's it.

She clearly had an agenda and that's why she's been trying to work everywhere else since- except for us. She misjudged how far she could go and got it badly wrong. Only the technician knew she had two tracks on her cd. Both Richard and I were not impressed.

Now with my defensive hat on, should we now talk about the acts I have found and promoted live in recent times.

Alexander Patton, The Del Larks, Epitome of Sound, Barbara Lynn, William Bell, Spellbinders,

Joanne Garrett, Freddie Hughes, Frank Wilson, The Poindexter Bros, The Tymes ........and not a song about Northern Soul in sight.

Edited December 18, 2014 by The Golden 101

[Steve S 60]

Surprised this wasn't on 'the list'.........always next year I suppose......

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGZHsUXOI64

 

Co-written with a bloke called Barnum.  Did Bailey arrange the music?

[Goldsoul]

H B Barnum. Producer of many classic Northern.

[Guest Byrney]

Back on topic.......

In 1967 at the back of Record Mirror, Rock & Roll collectors were already searching for a very rare 10" by Johnny Burnette, which contained ultimate dancers (Please Don't Leave, Train Kept A Rolling etc ). To this day, those tracks are still on DJ's playlists.

Does it then come as any surprise that any chart wouldn't contain The Tomangoes, Salvadors or Checkerboard Squares?

The scene has changed and more and more underplayed and/or failed first time rounders are infiltrating the standard week in week out DJ sets. That's a win win all round.

Remember the dancer has the final say no matter how many times a DJ hammers a track. It's their call at the end of the day.

The discoverers of newer popular singles such as Jonathan Capree take a bow. Masses have heard them at bigger venues and bought in.

Larger venues need the Lifeline's, 100 Club's to be able to expose newer spins to ever growing NS audience.

Remember the crowd swelling has come in the last 5 years, so we have thousands playing catch up. It's going to take a while for The Ravins and similar to cut through, so hang on in there. Be proud that YOU ARE AWARE of this fantastic treasure chest available to us, but at the same time realise only a few non traditional discoveries will cut through.

With tons of R&B being collected, there isn't many that have busted out big time....but at least there's some(Willie John, JT Parker, Five Royales, Drifters etc). Same goes for Modern.....Hamilton Movement is now a solid gold hit on the Northern scene, much to bemused Modern crowd. The public make it that way not the promoters.

As for Stanky Get Funky, I refer to a comment I made earlier in the thread. The 45 was in serious quantity at Selecta Disc, Nottingham in 72/73.

In fact I remember Derek Allen(RIP) playing it at a Wednesday night disco in Heanor, Derbys with no interest from yours truly. If it were Cobblestone back then mate...it's Sounds of Lane(lol). Whoever revived it.....well done. Another interesting 45 for dancers to enjoy and dealers to make a buck on.

There's one chart in my opinion.....the most popular tracks in general across the UK. The new sub-scenes that have been bubbling heavily over the last decade or so are absolutely vital though to fuelling Top DJ's with suggestions of what might work in a larger arena.

Back in the day, the rotation of tracks was just as heavy as it is now. We were younger and never gave it a second thought...these days it's all scrutinised and debated heavily.

If you are a social person and enjoy the complete evolvement of Northern.....the scene(s) have never been healthier. And the crowds prove it.

PS It would be interesting to see a Top 20 'underground' plays over the last year, so we can see which ones break through to the Oldies brigade.

To be continued......

Out of interest, what are the sub scenes you refer to which fuel the top DJs? For example tunes like the Ravins have come from venues like Lifeline. Is that side of the scene and say R&B events that you mean?

Ta very much like

Edited December 18, 2014 by Byrney

[Steve S 60]

H B Barnum. Producer of many classic Northern.

 

Thanks for that Kev.  Thought the track was more akin to something P T Barnum would have come up with.

[Goldsoul]

Out of interest, what are the sub scenes you refer to which fuel the top DJs? For example tunes like the Ravins have come from venues like Lifeline. Is that side of the scene and say R&B events that you mean?

Ta very much like

What I was trying to say is, venues such as Lifeline, 100 Club plough their own furrow and are not answering to anyone. They passionately promote new undiscovered and underplayed sides they believe the audience will like.

Unlike the early to mid 70's whereby there was pretty much only one scene, some of the tracks these guys are playing filter into the larger arenas and become anthems.

Perfect all round. A pat on the back for the DJ's who got em started but also one for the jocks who recognised the potential and ran with them hopefully turning em into real monsters.

[Mace]

Only the technician knew she had two tracks on her cd.

So that would be Ozz's fault then?

Ha ha....good swerve!

;o)

[Goldsoul]

So that would be Ozz's fault then?

Ha ha....good swerve!

;o)

Of course not....Ozz like the rest of us would not go near even OTIS REDDING singing a song called Northern Soul nevermind Judy Street  Now stop mucking about yer wind up merchant

[Guest Byrney]

What I was trying to say is, venues such as Lifeline, 100 Club plough their own furrow and are not answering to anyone. They passionately promote new undiscovered and underplayed sides they believe the audience will like.

Unlike the early to mid 70's whereby there was pretty much only one scene, some of the tracks these guys are playing filter into the larger arenas and become anthems.

Perfect all round. A pat on the back for the DJ's who got em started but also one for the jocks who recognised the potential and ran with them hopefully turning em into real monsters.

I took sub as 'below' or 'a smaller segment' of the oldies scene. Thanks for clarifying.

In reality the 100 club, Lifeline etc does exactly what Northern Soul has always been about - new discoveries, underplayed reactivations and the selected class oldies. Quite separate really from the nostalgia scene but here's hoping at least a fraction of the quality played reach them and some of the punters graduate to lifeline 100 club etc

[Goldsoul]

I took sub as 'below' or 'a smaller segment' of the oldies scene. Thanks for clarifying.

In reality the 100 club, Lifeline etc does exactly what Northern Soul has always been about - new discoveries, underplayed reactivations and the selected class oldies. Quite separate really from the nostalgia scene but here's hoping at least a fraction of the quality played reach them and some of the punters graduate to lifeline 100 club etc

It is doing.....The Parliaments-This Is My Rainy Day is a perfect example of an underground rarity that the Kings Hall Stoke said YES PLEASE! Well done Mick H and company.

[Guest]

Now with my defensive hat on, should we now talk about the acts I have found and promoted live in recent times.

Alexander Patton, The Del Larks, Epitome of Sound, Barbara Lynn, William Bell, Spellbinders,

Joanne Garrett, Freddie Hughes, Frank Wilson, The Poindexter Bros, The Tymes ........and not a song about Northern Soul in sight.

I only wish no artists were brought over to the UK to perform on the Northern Soul Scene.

Any artists brought over should appear at proper concerts billed for the artist and not incorporated into a northern soul event!

The Northern Soul scene to me was always about the records and dancing. Building up a great atmosphere to the latest monster sounds.

Artists at Northern Soul events spoil the night! Ruin the atmosphere that's been built up, then after they have gone ,the venue seems totally flat and has to be worked back up again!

I know the sightseers won't agree!

Edited December 18, 2014 by Guest

[Len]

I only wish no artists were brought over to the UK to perform on the Northern Soul Scene.

Any artists brought over should appear at proper concerts billed for the artist and not incorporated into a northern soul event!

The Northern Soul scene to me was always about the records and dancing. Building up a great atmosphere to the latest monster sounds.

Artists at Northern Soul events spoil the night! Ruin the atmosphere that's been built up, then after they have gone ,the venue seems totally flat and has to be worked back up again!

I know the sightseers won't agree!

 

That's a brave post - I agree (with respect to the artists).....I would go (have been) to events purely for the artist, but there is something to be said about keeping it separate - This does not take any appreciation away from the artist.

 

Darrow Fletcher at The Wilton being a good example - I went to pay my respects to him.

 

A long standing quote of mine......"I would prefer to hear the record played by Carl Fortnum!"......

 

All the best,

 

Len

Edited December 18, 2014 by LEN

[TOAD]

Brother's of soul recently or a same old same oldies night with second rate DJs go on guess where I went!

[Len]

Brother's of soul recently or a same old same oldies night with second rate DJs go on guess where I went!

 

Of course - I went for The Brothers Of Soul, and didn't expect the same I would get from a 'norman' Soul event - I went to see The Brothers of Soul live, and thoroughly enjoyed it

 

Len

[SHEFFSOUL]

I only wish no artists were brought over to the UK to perform on the Northern Soul Scene.

Any artists brought over should appear at proper concerts billed for the artist and not incorporated into a northern soul event!

The Northern Soul scene to me was always about the records and dancing. Building up a great atmosphere to the latest monster sounds.

Artists at Northern Soul events spoil the night! Ruin the atmosphere that's been built up, then after they have gone ,the venue seems totally flat and has to be worked back up again!

I know the sightseers won't agree!

lot of truth in this statement..even in the mid 70's..

[Quinvy]

Phil if your going to call me a ........ing knob please say it to my face not behind a keyboard I,ll be at Stubshaw Niter 27 Dec hope you can make it I,ll even pay your entry it will be well worth it to see you again

love Ian

Don't call me a liar then.

 

Unlike a lot of folk on here I don't make up stories. I was amazed by what happened with the Stanky 45. I have never seen anything like that happen before.

[paultp]

I only wish no artists were brought over to the UK to perform on the Northern Soul Scene.

Any artists brought over should appear at proper concerts billed for the artist and not incorporated into a northern soul event!

The Northern Soul scene to me was always about the records and dancing. Building up a great atmosphere to the latest monster sounds.

Artists at Northern Soul events spoil the night! Ruin the atmosphere that's been built up, then after they have gone ,the venue seems totally flat and has to be worked back up again!

I know the sightseers won't agree!

 

I can see where you're coming from but a couple of live performances were absolutely magical for me;

 

The Velvelettes at Cleethorpes - you could see they were nervous when they came on stage, possibly because they still saw themselves as a "lesser" Motown act. But seeing their initial amazement at everyone start immediately singing along turn to confidence was fantastic. It was like the years fell away, not sure who was enjoying it more - us or them.

 

Ray Pollard at Prestatyn - his voice was absolutely incredible, I sat on the tiered seats at the back and just listened; to hear him perform The Drifter flawlessly was just incredible. Something that was really special for everyone was his duet with Tony Middleton of "I have faith in you". Apparently they only learned it the day before and had rehearsed it just a couple of times, on the night they enjoyed it so much they sang it again. I don't know who suggested it to them but what a great idea. That isn't on a record anywhere, only the people there got to experience it.

 

So, not all live acts are shite IMHO.

 

it didn't ruin the night either, all the DJ's still got to play their copies of Just A Boy's Dream afterwards 

Edited December 19, 2014 by paultp

[barney]

Pete it may well have been you or possibly Nige Brown.You both played blinding sets but i knew each record until Stanky came on and i sat down to listen to it for first the time.The record sounded great in that great venue and i started looking for my own copy and bagged one a few months after.It may turn a few noses up now a days but at first plays Stanky certainly made a big impact.

and I used to think you were a top banana patto , admitting to owning stanky

[Patto]

and I used to think you were a top banana patto , admitting to owning stanky

 

At the time it was getting its first plays Barney it was a goodun.Its been Hammered for too long now and people are sick of it.But in the same vein there are loads more records that are getting the same overkill by unimaginative DJs every weekend.

Over the years i have heard many records that people said were the dogs b*llocks and i thought were utter crap.Also heard just as many records that i like that others say are crap.

Stanky in my opinion is still a good dance record whatever they say but its time it was put to the back of the box.

But ill be keeping my copy Barney you should know us Pit lads dont worry about admitting to unpopular opinions.

Edited February 7, 2015 by pikeys dog
swearing - work filters

[barney]

At the time it was getting its first plays Barney it was a goodun.Its been Hammered for too long now and people are sick of it.But in the same vein there are loads more records that are getting the same overkill by unimaginative DJs every weekend.

Over the years i have heard many records that people said were the dogs b*llocks and i thought were utter crap.Also heard just as many records that i like that others say are crap.

Stanky in my opinion is still a good dance record whatever they say but its time it was put to the back of the box.

But ill be keeping my copy Barney you should know us Pit lads dont worry about admitting to unpopular opinions.

it was a tongue in cheek quote mate , as you know am not at back of door and say things like I think they should be said .

looking back over the last 20 years and especially since 2000 have seen many up and coming dj.s who set off spinning a limited but refreshing choice, of  their take on the music they owned and played out ,,only to see them climb the greasy pole and start thinking they were in the big league and giving airtime to the latest monster awesome sounds like stanky and tribute , and a great many more which to me have fallen short of what I would like or even want to listen or dance to on our scene ,

Edited February 7, 2015 by pikeys dog
swearing - work filters

[Patto]

it was a tongue in cheek quote mate , as you know am not at back of door and say things like I think they should be said .

looking back over the last 20 years and especially since 2000 have seen many up and coming dj.s who set off spinning a limited but refreshing choice, of  their take on the music they owned and played out ,,only to see them climb the greasy pole and start thinking they were in the big league and giving airtime to the latest monster awesome sounds like stanky and tribute , and a great many more which to me have fallen short of what I would like or even want to listen or dance to on our scene ,

 

No Problem Mate.What you say is very true,and that greasy pole seems to get taller every year with more and more DJs trying to climb on to it.

Some records are just hammered too much and thats not the fault of the first Djs that started spinning it.I respect the Guys that At least try to introduce something different amoung the standard stuff.

There are some DJs that have always done their best and i take my hat off to them its not as easy as many think to do it well.

At the end of the day its all about opinions and one mans fave is anothers pain in the arse record.I just go out these days and hope to hear a few things i like so i can stretch the old hamstrings ,but i realise that even the stuff i hate often fills floors.

Hope I'm still a Top Banana me old fruit even though Stanky is still in me box

[barney]

still a top lad mate , theres not many towd miners left.