Edward Hamilton & The Arabians - 60's Detroit Acetate

[Raym]

Just having a flick through an old box and found this which I picked up in 1997:

 

Edward Hamilton & the Arabians - "Now you have to cry alone" / "Temptation of love" 

 

Looks like and smells like an original 60's acetate for LANROD 1605  (Yellow copy rather than the Red one which has "I love you so") not sure why all the brown tape or why it has CARRIE in biro as this was a Lanrod single. 

 

Its been cut on a  UNITED SOUND SYSTEMS, DETROIT(LANROD) Acetate disc

 

Probably just interesting rather than having much value?

 

Anyone see anything like this before?

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks, Ray

[Robbk]

"Now You Have to Cry Alone" was released both on James Hendrix's Carrie Records (1964) and on Lanrod Records (1966? or 1967?).  So, it is not surprising that Carrie Records was listed on the acetate.  The flip of the Lanrod release was "I Love You So", while "Temptation of Love" was on Carrie 039.   Therefore, we must conclude that this acetate was made for the Carrie release in 1964.

[Robbk]

Carrie 038, by Gearlene Duckett, out virtually the same time as The Arabians' Carrie 039 was out in 1964, as we can clearly tell from the writing style of the song, and the instrumentation, and sound quality of the recording.   I saw those yellow Carrie records years before I saw a Lanrod release.  James Hendrix stated in an interview referred to in "Detroit City Limits" in 1988, that he and and Lou Beatty (who had partnered up for many release projects on Beatty's LaBeat and Mary Jane labels) had a falling out in late 1966, and when Hendrix had finally recovered his original masters, he left Detroit to return to Nashille.  He operated Carrie records out of Nashville again, starting then, and also issued and re-issued records on Lanrod Records.  So, apparently, the Lanrod 1605 re-issue of "Now You Have To Cry Alone" was released in 1967.   He operated Lanrod before returning to Nashville, as there were other releases produced by him before 1967, and also on the related Arnold, and Staff Records.

Edited November 29, 2014 by RobbK

[Louise]

During a conversation with Edward Hamilton , I raised the subject of their being two Lanrod releases of "Now You Have To Cry Alone"

He claimed that Lanrod initially leased "Now You Have To Cry Alone/Temptation Of Love" from Hendrix but such was the popularity of "Now You Have To Cry Alone" in the Florida area that they later returned to Hendrix (who at that time was very disenchanted with the music business) and reputedlybought the masters to "I Love You So/Now I Have To Cry Alone" outright and re- released them on the Red Lanrod Label.

The difference in the  publishing credits on the Red label (IRP Music BMI) as opposed to (Mester BMI) on the Yellow Label would seem to support this theory.

Dave

Edited November 29, 2014 by Louise

[Robbk]

I can't read clearly the writing on the right hand side of the A side of the acetate.  But, it looks lik "....anrod" from Lanrod.  Is THAT why you thought that the acetate was for Lanrod 1605?  Please let me know.  I see no evidence that this was for Lanrod, as it has the Carrie issue backside rather than "I Love You So". 

 

Apparently, Hendrix's masters, made previous to his partnership with Beatty, were also housed at Beatty's office, along with those of the projects they worked on together.  When Hendrix ended the partnership and finally got back his masters, he re-released  many of them on Carrie and Lanrod.  Hendrix indicated that Beatty released some of Hendrix's recordings without telling him and without permission.  I assume that that and keeping money to himself that should have been split may have been the main reasons for Hendrix leaving.

[Robbk]

During a conversation with Edward Hamilton , I raised the subject of their being two Lanrod releases of "Now You Have To Cry Alone"

He claimed that Lanrod initially leased "Now You Have To Cry Alone/Temptation Of Love" from Hendrix but such was the popularity of "Now You Have To Cry Alone" in the Florida area that they later returned to Hendrix (who at that time was very disenchanted with the music business) and reputedlybought the masters to "I Love You So/Now I Have To Cry Alone" outright and re- released them on the Red Lanrod Label.

So then Lanrod was owned by someone else than Hendrix.  Do you know who owned it?  Did you ask Hamilton who Cllifford Binns was?  Did you ask him if Cornelius Grant was their manager, and was moonlighting with them while he was working at Motown with The Temptations?

[Louise]

With Cornelius playing Guitar on Hamilton's "I'm Gonna Love You" and penning the Arabian's "(Please) Take A Chance On Me" I would say kinda moonlighting. Yes I did ask him about Clifford Binns a very elusive see a previous thread about Clifford on here.

As for Hendrix owning Lanrod initially he may well have done and sold the label name, masters and publishing  outright to the guys in Florida.

Dave

[Robbk]

With Cornelius playing Guitar on Hamilton's "I'm Gonna Love You" and penning the Arabian's "(Please) Take A Chance On Me" I would say kinda moonlighting. Yes I did ask him about Clifford Binns a very elusive see a previous thread about Clifford on here.

As for Hendrix owning Lanrod initially he may well have done and sold the label name, masters and publishing  outright to the guys in Florida.

Dave

Yes, I was a particopant on that thread.  So, I guess we will never know.  The two sound very alike,  Some of Hamiltons photos make him look very different, but a couple look very like the one Binns photo.  I think the early Lanrod and Arnold were sister labels, probably owned by Hendrix with a money partner.  Carrie was his own.  So, I think the other labels, including Staff, were partnerships (other than the one with Beatty).

[Tlscapital]

"Now You Have to Cry Alone" was released both on James Hendrix's Carrie Records (1964) and on Lanrod Records (1966? or 1967?).  So, it is not surprising that Carrie Records was listed on the acetate.  The flip of the Lanrod release was "I Love You So", while "Temptation of Love" was on Carrie 039.   Therefore, we must conclude that this acetate was made for the Carrie release in 1964.

Indeed but might be a bit more tricky;

 

 

The acetate was done for Carrie then with the title release as 'temptation of love'. It was then re-released soon after on Lanrod (yellow still with title 'TOL'). 'I love you so' was most likely change for a better fitting title and growing success. It was re-release and briefly (most copies have the distributer credits blacked out) picked-up for national distribution on Lanrod (red) with an "improved" mix work for 'ILYS' IMHO. 

Edited November 29, 2014 by tlscapital

[Robbk]

I knew that the yellow Lanrod was out about the same time as Arnold Records.  I assume this was co-owned by James Hendrix and a money partner to afford to press more records than Carrie could do with only his money.  I assume that this money partner was named "Arnold".   The flip side of this Arnold record has "Mester Music", the same publisher as the yellow Lanrods.  And it has the same plastic and record physical features (indenture, thickness, etc. as the yellow Lanrods, and also the same label design and font.  Mester Music was probably the publisher of the Hendrix-Arnold partnership.  I assumed that Carrie 039 came out first, only in Detroit,  Then, soon after, the yellow Lanrod came out also in 1964, to get better (regional) distribution.  I assumed that the red pressing was released in 1967, after Hendrix got the masters back from Lou Beatty.

 

But, you seem to be saying that there was a red pressing in 1964, to distribute the record nationally.  Am I understanding you correctly?

[Robbk]

But all the red pressings I've ever seen had "Distrubuted by Independent Producers' Group" printed on them.  Did IPG distribute them in 1964, and then AGAIN in 1967?  Or are you saying that the red Lanrod was released ONLY in 1964?

[Tlscapital]

But all the red pressings I've ever seen had "Distrubuted by Independent Producers' Group" printed on them.  Did IPG distribute them in 1964, and then AGAIN in 1967?  Or are you saying that the red Lanrod was released ONLY in 1964?

The red copies with "Distrubuted by Independent Producers' Group" is a later pressing. How late I could not say. But like stated here above by Dave with a "revive" factor for the record in Florida and the split between Beatty and Hendrix it all make sense it could be a '66 or '67 release where the Carrie is '64. I was just pointing out that the title 'temptation of love' was also released on Lanrod (yellow) as it was also released as 'I love you so' both on yellow Lanrod as the later red one ! And while I was at it, the mix on the red one is somewhat slowed down some to a smoother effect that IMHO suits the song for an improvement. And I'm very conservative with those issues, treatments kinda things in general !

[G F]

Has anyone got a Carrie issue of (Temptation of Love) I Love you So?

It's Carrie 1605.

I'd really like a decent scan to include in a YouTube video I'm putting together.

[G F]

Here's what Ed had to say....

The song was released twice on Lanrod, with diffrent titles as the label scans in this thread show.

 

 

[The Yank]

I found these two articles in February, 1964 issues of Cashbox . The 1st one announces Lanrod is distributed by the I.R.P. group and the 2nd one reviews the single with I.R.P. as the publishers of the 2 songs- 

[Tlscapital]

Good infos. Copyrights for both songs deposited in April 1963.

So the first Carrie release was 1963 and the Lanrod early 1964.

TEMPTATION OF LOVE; w & m Edward Hamilton.
© Mester Music, Inc.; 8Apr63;
EU765326.

NOW YOU HAVE TO CRY ALONE; w & m James Hendrix.
© James Hendrix; 8Apr63;
EU765325.
 

 

[G F]

7 hours ago, The Yank said:

I found these two articles in February, 1964 issues of Cashbox . The 1st one announces Lanrod is distributed by the I.R.P. group and the 2nd one reviews the single with I.R.P. as the publishers of the 2 songs- 

Thanks for these details. This is the 45 I used to have.

I wonder why it was released again on Lanrod with a different title - maybe the Temptation of Love one came first?  

[G F]

30 minutes ago, Tlscapital said:

Good infos. Copyrights for both songs deposited in April 1963.

So the first Carrie release was 1963 and the Lanrod early 1964.

TEMPTATION OF LOVE; w & m Edward Hamilton.
© Mester Music, Inc.; 8Apr63;
EU765326.

NOW YOU HAVE TO CRY ALONE; w & m James Hendrix.
© James Hendrix; 8Apr63;
EU765325.
 

 

A year is surprisingly long, but maybe the Carrie 45 wasn't released in April '63 - it was just registered then.

Thank for the details. 

The Carrie 45 must be rare.

[G F]

1 hour ago, Tlscapital said:

Good infos. Copyrights for both songs deposited in April 1963.

So the first Carrie release was 1963 and the Lanrod early 1964.

TEMPTATION OF LOVE; w & m Edward Hamilton.
© Mester Music, Inc.; 8Apr63;
EU765326.

NOW YOU HAVE TO CRY ALONE; w & m James Hendrix.
© James Hendrix; 8Apr63;
EU765325.
 

 

In my files, I have a release date on the Carrie 45 for December 1963 - just can't recall where I got that info' from.

[Tlscapital]

12 minutes ago, G F said:

A year is surprisingly long, but maybe the Carrie 45 wasn't released in April '63 - it was just registered then.

Thank for the details. 

The Carrie 45 must be rare.

Carrie C-0037 up to Carrie C-0040 publishing rights were for most (one side before in October 1962) deposited between early and late April 1963 !

But all were registered on different dates ! Which could indicate a rather intense April activity at Carrie's in releases after registrations of the compositions. 

So this Carrie release could be later than February 1963 evidently but not too late I believe. Mind you that the Carrie 'A' side was James Hendrix composition.

And the Lanrod's 'A' side were logically (IMO but to the public's ear too) the Cornelius Grant composition. There could be some explanation as to why the title change and time gap...

[G F]

I have found the info' in my notes about Temptation of Love - local DJ Ernie Durham had it as a selection in the newspaper on December 28th, 1963 - this could be first of the Lanrod 45s.

Edited October 1, 2023 by G F
details added

[The Yank]

Here's a picture of the group from the February 1st, 1964 issue of Cashbox- 

 

[G F]

Many thanks... I do have this and it must be briefly in the video somewhere. 

I'm surprised there were very few ads about the group and their releases in the black-focused Detroit newspaper, The Michigan Chronicle. The only one I saw was for their appearance at The Parizian in '64 when I Love You So was out. There was a brief mention of them doing a gig at a place called Shay Lake, which is north of Detroit, but no ads for the usual clubs like Phelps and The Chit Chat, where they did perform. 

I also noticed that a local radio chart had Pickett's 6345789 at number 1, but Call Me wasn't in the top 50.