Pete S Posted November 6, 2004 Posted November 6, 2004 I don't really know what John is playing at this time, the values for many thousands of records are surreal - Embers watch out girl on an issue for £350, there will be one on my next list for £150! Dean Courtney issue for £400, I turned down £800 for it. But the worst of it is, when he has auctioned a record, he has put that price as its value - for instance, according to the book, the Ellusions is worth £600 not £200. This, in my opinion, is going to blow the whole Northern record collecting scene to bits. The records will be too overpriced for people to buy, the Americans will put their prices up to follow. I am going to put a disclaimer on my lists that I have not priced up anything using price guides, I'm sure I'll continue to sell 80% of all stuff I list like I do now, but I don't know what's going to happen to the guys who are already overpriced. It'll be very interesting to see what Tim brown's book looks side by side with Johns. I'm just gobsmacked too see things like Bud Harper, which is on Ebay every single week and should surely have come down in value, has gone up by £100!
vaultofsouler Posted November 6, 2004 Posted November 6, 2004 I don't really know what John is playing at this time, the values for many thousands of records are surreal - Embers watch out girl on an issue for £350, there will be one on my next list for £150! Dean Courtney issue for £400, I turned down £800 for it. But the worst of it is, when he has auctioned a record, he has put that price as its value - for instance, according to the book, the Ellusions is worth £600 not £200. This, in my opinion, is going to blow the whole Northern record collecting scene to bits. The records will be too overpriced for people to buy, the Americans will put their prices up to follow. I am going to put a disclaimer on my lists that I have not priced up anything using price guides, I'm sure I'll continue to sell 80% of all stuff I list like I do now, but I don't know what's going to happen to the guys who are already overpriced. It'll be very interesting to see what Tim brown's book looks side by side with Johns. I'm just gobsmacked too see things like Bud Harper, which is on Ebay every single week and should surely have come down in value, has gone up by £100! link Totally agree with you Pete.... ordered one for my mate over internet cause he don't have a card.... it's come this morning so opened to make sure OK Been browsing through and the listing of the "selling price" based on his auctions is totally unnecessary IMO.... just caught sight of the Steinways "price".... f*** me
Pete S Posted November 6, 2004 Author Posted November 6, 2004 I haven't seen the Steinways price but I sold it 4 weeks ago for £125 and I think anything above that is too high myself...
vaultofsouler Posted November 6, 2004 Posted November 6, 2004 I haven't seen the Steinways price but I sold it 4 weeks ago for £125 and I think anything above that is too high myself... link Has it at £400 for a DJ.... and, in bold, £404 for an issue.... now I know there's the old addage "a record is only worth what a buyer will buy for", etc., but can't get my head around bidding above £150, if really want it, let alone typing £404 into a PC screen.... Seem to remember not too long ago when the average set sale price was between £75-100.... and they say eBay has gone mad....
John May Posted November 6, 2004 Posted November 6, 2004 I haven't seen the Steinways price but I sold it 4 weeks ago for £125 and I think anything above that is too high myself... link I think £125 is an accurate price.... Let's not all panic to much yet. JM
Guest micksmith Posted November 6, 2004 Posted November 6, 2004 STOP MOANING LADS-JUST THINK WHAT YOUR COLLECTION'S WORTH-BETTER THAN THE BUILDING SOCIETY. FREDDIE CHEVEZ IS A BIT CHEAP?????????
vaultofsouler Posted November 6, 2004 Posted November 6, 2004 STOP MOANING LADS-JUST THINK WHAT YOUR COLLECTION'S WORTH-BETTER THAN THE BUILDING SOCIETY. FREDDIE CHEVEZ IS A BIT CHEAP????????? link Not moaning mate just making an observation.... new guide can make a collection appear to improve in value.... BUT I wouldn't base the "worth" of my collection on some of the current "values" within the new guide.... Ringleaders in at £500 (as per his last auction sale) .... still only £200-250 realistically.... not that I'd sell it anyway.... Recently got a vg++/mint- Falcons "Love Look In Her Eyes" on blue Big Wheel for £100.... always thought it was about £150 for blue and £120 for green so was well chuffed.... in guide at £250 for blue and £200 for green but can't see where the extra £100 in value comes from :o ....
Mike Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 Not moaning mate just making an observation.... new guide can make a collection appear to improve in value.... BUT I wouldn't base the "worth" of my collection on some of the current "values" within the new guide.... Ringleaders in at £500 (as per his last auction sale) .... still only £200-250 realistically.... not that I'd sell it anyway.... Recently got a vg++/mint- Falcons "Love Look In Her Eyes" on blue Big Wheel for £100.... always thought it was about £150 for blue and £120 for green so was well chuffed.... in guide at £250 for blue and £200 for green but can't see where the extra £100 in value comes from :o .... link Mark and others before commenting just to clear it up, if you could The value of the ringleaders in book is just stated at £500 no other price or info regarding the price?? does it say that this is a auction price ? or is it just same entry as a non-auctioned 45 suppose end up buying it, just so can never find it when need it ta mike
jimmy clitheroe Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 its £500 in bold type, which means its the auction price but thats it no other values
vaultofsouler Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 Mark and others before commenting just to clear it up, if you could The value of the ringleaders in book is just stated at £500 no other price or info regarding the price?? does it say that this is a auction price ? or is it just same entry as a non-auctioned 45 suppose end up buying it, just so can never find it when need it ta mike link Previous post answered it really.... but in a nutshell it appears that on items that have gone through his auctions they are "valued" at that price rather than any other.... all indicated by being in bold font.... There are others that appear to have increased in "value", obviously in JM's opinion.... Daft money written for some in both cases IMO....
Guest Adam G Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 He also seems to be in my opinion mistaken on some of the more available stuff.For instance he has Margie Joseph "I'll always love you" at I think £40 and the brilliant double sider"Watcha gonna do"/"Nobody" at £30 now Ive always thought the second 45 was rarer and more desirable.Love you is a great tune but nowhere near the "Nobody/Watcha gonna do"side.Am I wrong.Whats the market price?. Adam
Guest biggray1 Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 (edited) The Natzi's had a fix for all crapp missleading rubbish type books!! They burnt um all! lets be honest about the intent about the book!! Its there tomake as much dosh as possible! You Buy the book for reference and the dealears buy it to sell there ware's for the max profit! and they have been doing it for ages. There are some genuine Record Sellers who sell at thier valuation so to shift stock!these are the blokes to deal with! Mr Manship has manipulated the Soul Record market and is doin well! Its manships buisness to achive profit for his company so he will sell rare items at high prices! Cant really blame John for the Price boom he has created with the Price guide,i blame the people that encourage him to do so! So sayeth the Nottingham Soul Man! The Home of the Rare Records Not Stotfold with there multi coloured Lavine Boots! Edited November 7, 2004 by biggray1
Northernguy Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 a price guide based on supply and demand not rarity "the whole damn world is going crazy"
Pete S Posted November 7, 2004 Author Posted November 7, 2004 I went through 75% of the guide last night and I'm convinced it's the beginning of the end. But I also think if US dealers use this guide, they are going to price themselves out of the market and I predict that in 6 months time, northern will just stop selling - at this books prices - because people are not that stupid. Frances Nero white demo £1500? Normally I'd have thought this was a misprint but now I'm not so sure. Of course it could work another way, when I put out my weekly list it could say "Prepared to love you" book price £300, my price £150, you save 50%
Guest Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 This is how it works. 1. This (insert item for sale here) costs (insert price here) to buy from (insert seller here). You (the buyer) now have two choices - a. to buy it at that price b. not to buy it at that price If the seller cannot sell it at the price he wants, he must bring his price down or his business suffers. So the BUYER always has the ultimate power ! Simple as that !
Headsy Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 would JM give you the value against his book price if he bought your collection ? what do dealers pay you, about 60% ? so the Four Pros on CARLA is £100 ( I paid £ 10 for mine this year ) that means if JM was to buy it from me he would pay me £60..................which I would happily accept and buy another for a tenner....I dont think so !!!
Chalky Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 because people are not that stupid I tend to disagree and think some people are that stupid judging by some of the prices paid lately
Larsc Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 This is how it works. If the seller cannot sell it at the price he wants, he must bring his price down or his business suffers. So the BUYER always has the ultimate power ! Simple as that ! link Yes, this is how it normally works. A record collector is not a normal person. Collecting is more or less an obsession and highly irrational. Irrational people do stupid things sometimes, like bidding £100 extra just to get their top want Personally I consider Manships auctions more like entertainment. His price guide on the other hand :Fck_off_by_nulltarget:
Guest Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 Yes, this is how it normally works. A record collector is not a normal person. Ah now ! This was the missing link !
davidwapples Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 also has anyone noticed that some records that look to have appeared in the big hall purchase from the states are valued alot more than they should be. i have noticed several copies of mind and matter and cautions on shrine appearing on auctions and ebay and lists if a dealer has 4 copies of rare record x valued at 800 pounds with more copies found then this value should decrease , but if someone wrote a guide saying they were worth 1500 he would be able to sell them for alot more , if he reduced the price he would be writing off money from the value of his stock. whens tim browns guide available? dave
Chalky Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 I didn't think Mind and Matter were in the haul but from another source?? But I do agree with your comments regarding over pricing :angry:
davidwapples Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 i may be wrong but it seems like theres alot turning up , been offered 4 in last month , its on my wants list but i now dont think its that mega rare , im sure i was told there was a box found and some sold for $15 before dealer realised
Chalky Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 i may be wrong but it seems like theres alot turning up , been offered 4 in last month , its on my wants list but i now dont think its that mega rare , im sure i was told there was a box found and some sold for $15 before dealer realised link I know a box of 25 found. Thought these had all gone tho'. Dunno Were the ones offered from same source?
davidwapples Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 2 manship list 1 ,manship auction , 1 on ebay
Chalky Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 2 manship list 1 ,manship auction , 1 on ebay link I've seen the Manship ones, didn't realise he had quantity tho and assumed they were all the same copy that he couldn't sell
vaultofsouler Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 (edited) The Ringleaders is a £150 record. Some people are starting to believe their own nonsense. Theres reasons behind every price guide and behind most prices that are uttered on lips of dealers, buyers and sellers.. a raft of motivation and agendas, BUT.. ..... the Ringleaders is a £150 record. Period. ... Give a bit for inflation next year. link If you can get a "decent" copy of Ringleaders for the £150 you stick by these days then I'll drop me "kegs" and run around shouting "what the f*** you like" for as "long as you like" I got mine about 3 years ago, after quite a few (probably 10+) years "watching" out for it on a decent copy at a decent price.... paid about £175 and "skipped" around the room when it came.... our lass thought I was on "drugs".... my mate bought one of JM about 4-5yrs ago for £100 and "ribbed me stupid".... BUT it was "shagged".... you could barely see the "yellow" label let alone "ought else written" on it.... But that's not the point.... "the" point is.... what "now" gets put down as a "value" or "worth" of a 45.... No offence meant by this reply.... Edited November 7, 2004 by vaultofsouler
vaultofsouler Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 "the whole damn world is going crazy" link Never a truer comment said.... even by John Gary Williams....
vaultofsouler Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 would JM give you the value against his book price if he bought your collection ? link Not a chance in hell....
Guest 71TRSC Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 I think as a guide it has its uses. I refer to it for advice and then go elsewhere and buy stuff for less than what he says its worth. Problem is prices are going up. In the new guide he reckons he has 10,000 customers and there are 30,000 collectors chasing a finite number of records. Which means people think they need to buy now or someone else will get it. Which drives prices up. Its not all his fault that prices are going up though he isnt helping.
vaultofsouler Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 (edited) I think as a guide it has its uses. I refer to it for advice and then go elsewhere and buy stuff for less than what he says its worth. Problem is prices are going up. In the new guide he reckons he has 10,000 customers and there are 30,000 collectors chasing a finite number of records. Which means people think they need to buy now or someone else will get it. Which drives prices up. Its not all his fault that prices are going up though he isnt helping. link True comments mate... and that's what a "guide" should be used for.... a guide.... no matter who "produces" it.... Not sure about the "10,000" customers bit or the "30,000" collectors bit though that is "written".... "Salemanship" is one long word that comes to mind.... think "oh f***" I'd better not miss out on these "cheapies".... Edited November 7, 2004 by vaultofsouler
Chalky Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 True comments mate... and that's what a "guide" should be used for.... a guide.... no matter who "produces" it.... link But it's no longer a guide for many, it's treated as the starting point for many dealers, both over here and in the States...when selling on e-bay some dealers mention the fact that it's listed in JM guide.
vaultofsouler Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 (edited) then why has he increased the price of various discs when it's obvious to everyone that these have turned up in rather decent quantiity. Another he was/is selling Earnest Mosley Studdorn Heart on La Cindy..saw 4 in as many weeks...be interesting to see if this is reflected in his new guide as I heard there was quantity on these. link Apparently in "2nd" guide at £500 for "blue" label and £1000 for "white one.... In "3rd" at £650 for "blue" and still "1000 for "white"...the 650 is in "bold" so obviously a recent "auction" price.... Reflected .... I think not .... Edited November 7, 2004 by vaultofsouler
Chalky Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 Apparently in "2nd" guide at £500 for "blue" label and £1000 for "white one.... In "3rd" at £650 for "blue" and still "1000 for "white"...the 650 is in "bold" so obviously a recent "auction" price.... Reflected .... I think not .... link Sure it went for more than £650 Not 100% but he may have listed it for £800. Know couple of others who listed it for that price.
vaultofsouler Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 (edited) But it's no longer a guide for many, it's treated as the starting point for many dealers, both over here and in the States...when selling on e-bay some dealers mention the fact that it's listed in JM guide. link Too true.... even the "stateside" sellers that normally don't sell NS are "quoting" the JM guide.... can't knock them for their "homework" though.... like said earlier, the guide has become a "that's what I want for it" opinion of those sellers "over there" that haven't normally got a clue.... Like Pete Smith said earlier.... the latest guide could be the "death nell" of getting the "occasional bargain" of the "bay".... Soul content related to eBay.... Vanguards, "good times bad times".... more bad these days, IMO, than in the past.... must be a positive for the the "UK set sale" listers/producers who are atleast more "clued in".... Edited November 7, 2004 by vaultofsouler
vaultofsouler Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 Sure it went for more than £650 Not 100% but he may have listed it for £800. Know couple of others who listed it for that price. link Don't know Chalks mate.... never look in on the site these days.... £800, and we always say (perhaps used to) "a soulie won't skank another soulie".... bollox....
Chalky Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 Does the guide still reflect if the record has been booted?
vaultofsouler Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 Does the guide still reflect if the record has been booted? link Yes.... by the NOR being bold as like the NM bit in previous guide.... Jeez.... gonna end up having to buy a "fresh" copy for my mate if keep turning the corners on this copy....
Guest Netspeaky Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 Why do people bid on JM auction anyway, can't see who you're bidding against and if you have the mind to be on the internet then lots of these records can be found at other sources/auctions for there true prices. It a nice reference book which the US dealers will use as a certain price, till we stop buying the price will go up. US dealers still don't have their head round the northern scene that price is drive by dance floor demand action either.
Guest Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 As someone who found most of the Northern wants list in the 70's and finds himself buying mostly on EBAY these days, I find the situation with price guides neither here nor there. The basic facts are, more American's are aware of the scene hence they are turning them up quicker. As more and more US 45's hit the lists and EBAY prices will start to drop slowly. Take a look at 45's like SAM WILLIAMS. Anglo get 800-1,000 for it, yet I have witnessed it sell regularly on EBAY for 500 or less. If anything, its British thats on the up. £250 for Bobby Paris on Polydor 900 for Timi Yuro, Barbara Mills 500. As for Johnny M's guide, maybe he is more interested in selling books. And the more we talk about prices the more we refer to JM! But seriously, prices for some 45's can often be way off the price guides anyway. And how do you legislate for Nino Tempo a £40 single 12 months ago thats now a tenner at best. There are many singles falling in price but inevitably a clutch of hot turntable plays(Bill Bush etc) will peak then drop. The Tomangoes, Salvadors etc will always stay high.
Ric-tic Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 Why do people bid on JM auction anyway, can't see who you're bidding against and if you have the mind to be on the internet then lots of these records can be found at other sources/auctions for there true prices. that aside i dont know why anybody would want to buy anything from him anyway,hes just not honest,i have never really had a problem with any other u.k dealers and ive had so many with him.ive had records so scratched no grade exists for them,the last time i dealt with him was a few years ago i ordered some videos,when they arrived one was short[promised later] the rest were blank, so i sent them back at my own expense and that was it nothing! i wrote to him later reminding him,he did reply no apologies he just had the face to tell me his video was broken and that was it,id prefer to pull my eyes out than to spend one penny with that guy
Guest Posted November 8, 2004 Posted November 8, 2004 Why do people bid on JM auction anyway, can't see who you're bidding against link You can see who you are bidding against, but like ebay, most are user names.
Rotherham Soul Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 I went through 75% of the guide last night and I'm convinced it's the beginning of the end. But I also think if US dealers use this guide, they are going to price themselves out of the market and I predict that in 6 months time, northern will just stop selling - at this books prices - because people are not that stupid. Frances Nero white demo £1500? Normally I'd have thought this was a misprint but now I'm not so sure. Of course it could work another way, when I put out my weekly list it could say "Prepared to love you" book price £300, my price £150, you save 50% link
Rotherham Soul Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 I went through 75% of the guide last night and I'm convinced it's the beginning of the end. But I also think if US dealers use this guide, they are going to price themselves out of the market and I predict that in 6 months time, northern will just stop selling - at this books prices - because people are not that stupid. Frances Nero white demo £1500? Normally I'd have thought this was a misprint but now I'm not so sure. Of course it could work another way, when I put out my weekly list it could say "Prepared to love you" book price £300, my price £150, you save 50% link
Rotherham Soul Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 I went through 75% of the guide last night and I'm convinced it's the beginning of the end. But I also think if US dealers use this guide, they are going to price themselves out of the market and I predict that in 6 months time, northern will just stop selling - at this books prices - because people are not that stupid. Frances Nero white demo £1500? Normally I'd have thought this was a misprint but now I'm not so sure. Of course it could work another way, when I put out my weekly list it could say "Prepared to love you" book price £300, my price £150, you save 50% link
Rotherham Soul Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 (edited) I went through 75% of the guide last night and I'm convinced it's the beginning of the end. But I also think if US dealers use this guide, they are going to price themselves out of the market and I predict that in 6 months time, northern will just stop selling - at this books prices - because people are not that stupid. Frances Nero white demo £1500? Normally I'd have thought this was a misprint but now I'm not so sure. Of course it could work another way, when I put out my weekly list it could say "Prepared to love you" book price £300, my price £150, you save 50% link £1500 for this he's having a larf Igave £30 two years ago at the Ritz Maybe worth £80 tops Edited November 20, 2004 by rotherham soul
Pete S Posted November 17, 2004 Author Posted November 17, 2004 £1500 for this he's having a larf Igave £30 two years ago at the Ritz Maybe worth £80 tops link It's got to be a misprint, I sold it for £100 3 weeks ago, mint, but he rates the issue at £200, I mean, I've never seen it on a list over £80 - if I had one now it would be £75 tops.
pikeys dog Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 It's got to be a misprint, I sold it for £100 3 weeks ago, mint, but he rates the issue at £200, I mean, I've never seen it on a list over £80 - if I had one now it would be £75 tops. link Surely the issue is more indemand, as it has 'Fight Fire With Fire' on, whereas the demo is a double 'A'.... Still reckon the issue isnt worth more than a ton though (If pushed....) WOOF!
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