Vg+, Some Slight Scratches

[Chris L]

Record grading is a tough business and probably comes only second to whether the record is an original or not. You can have a record that looks mint but plays like hissing Sid or a ruffa-dan-ruff that plays perfect. Perhaps other SS guys & gals can share their experiences. This fell through my letterbox this morning (well actually it didn't, I had to pay £20.00 taxes & duties because the d**khead inflated the actual total value of the records.). What was he thinking of?............................

Edited November 10, 2014 by Chris L

[nsaints]

Timely question based on what dropped through my letter box today

Discogs purchase from the US $3 ($15 inc. postage) for Millie Jackson - My man, is a sweet man (OK I'm rebuilding from the start again)

graded as mint

 

really really dusty and a big inaudible scratch

 

It's cleaned up now and plays without any surface noise - still a bit annoyed - but not worth following up with the seller for something less than £10

 

Remember a Bobbie Smith I had - visually 100% perfect, but hardly audible when played. Sold it for 25% of the value at the day, and was upfront with the buyer. He probably thought and may have fixed it. I couldn't.

Edited November 11, 2014 by nsaints

[Guest]

Record grading is a tough business and probably comes only second to whether the record is an original or not. You can have a record that looks mint but plays like hissing Sid or a ruffa-dan-ruff that plays perfect. Perhaps other SS guys & gals can share their experiences. This fell through my letterbox this morning (well actually it didn't, I had to pay £20.00 taxes & duties because the d**khead inflated the actual total value of the records.). What was he thinking of?............................

010A.jpg

Looks like it`s been run over, I have a couple like that but they play great.

Nice clean nails mate!

[Winsford Soul]

I remember getting a proper Sam & Kitty I,ve  got something good on four brothers with the licenced to atco stamp on it. It looked like it had been run over then left in the gutter but it played absolutely mint  with not a hiss or crackle throughout.

 

Steve

[Guest]

I remember getting a proper Sam & Kitty I,ve  got something good on four brothers with the licenced to atco stamp on it. It looked like it had been run over then left in the gutter but it played absolutely mint  with not a hiss or crackle throughout.

 

Steve

I think its the way they`ve been stored because as you say they usually play fine.

[Peter99]

Record grading is a tough business and probably comes only second to whether the record is an original or not. You can have a record that looks mint but plays like hissing Sid or a ruffa-dan-ruff that plays perfect. Perhaps other SS guys & gals can share their experiences. This fell through my letterbox this morning (well actually it didn't, I had to pay £20.00 taxes & duties because the d**khead inflated the actual total value of the records.). What was he thinking of?............................

010A.jpg

Torvill and Dean have been training on that bugger!

[Chris L]

I bought a Johnny Sayles - Can't get enough, it was a demo and I kinda really wanted it, the seller (a well known dealer & DJ) said it played perfect, it looked dreadful and seller said I could return if I wasn't happy, by jimminey it played perfect, not one crackle or pop. Wish I had kept it

[Chris L]

Torvill and Dean have been training on that bugger!

 

Of course it doesn't play, will write to seller tomorrow, be interested to see what he (and I can confirm it is a "he") says.

[JOE TORQUAY]

i find a lot of us sellers only grade by eye ( no record player i suppose )

but most seem to undergrade to be on the safe side as i tend to do myself.

trouble is everyone has there own ideas when it comes to grading,

my vg+ might be your vg- etc.

joe.

[Soulstu]

I guess I've been lucky - almost without exception, buying from here and on discogs, every record has been better than described. EX- have been more like Mint-.

 

In my experience Joe's right, sellers on here are under grading, and it's a credit to them.

My only slight disappointment was a copy of that's What You Do To Me, Deon Jackson, bought from Florida via evilbay, with more scratches than I would have liked....but it plays fantastic!

[Guest Ivor Jones]

Record grading is a tough business and probably comes only second to whether the record is an original or not. You can have a record that looks mint but plays like hissing Sid or a ruffa-dan-ruff that plays perfect. Perhaps other SS guys & gals can share their experiences. This fell through my letterbox this morning (well actually it didn't, I had to pay £20.00 taxes & duties because the d**khead inflated the actual total value of the records.). What was he thinking of?............................

010A.jpg

Judging by the photo,I'd say someone has gone Across 110th St with that taped to the bottom of their shoes !

Joke gradings. Demand a full refund and nothing less Chris

Oh, and what was he thinking of ? His bank balance, naturally.....

Edited November 10, 2014 by Ivor Jones

[Chris L]

I guess I've been lucky - almost without exception, buying from here and on discogs, every record has been better than described. EX- have been more like Mint-. In my experience Joe's right, sellers on here are under grading, and it's a credit to them. My only slight disappointment was a copy of that's What You Do To Me, Deon Jackson, bought from Florida via evilbay, with more scratches than I would have liked....but it plays fantastic!

 

You're right generally speaking most sellers do grade well and there some Ebay sellers who do describe the record as G/VG- so you know what you're getting.

[Mellorful]

I agree thats grading is a tough job and subjective, what a selection of categories P, F, G, G+, VG-, VG, VG+, E-, E, E+, NM.....phew.

When buying I expect the records to have some marks on the vinyl and label, after all they are 40+ years old; I dont look quite the same as I did 40 years ago so why I dont expect a mint record. By not setting my expectations terribly high and tending to purchase VG upwards and I am rarely disappointed.  

I wish I knew how to attach a sound file then I could offload all my duplicated records and the buyer would get exactly what he hears in terms of the grooves, the photo would show scuffs and label condition.

[Frankie Crocker]

Grading is a real minefield. Watch out for sellers who modify the standard grading system otherwise you will end up with a poor buy at some point. Be extra careful when buying styrene records - only buy if the sound-bite is acceptable. Be prepared to buy a low grade copy but with a view to paying more for a better copy if and when another pops up - trick is, set a low outlay for this sort of record. The big annoyance is a reference to 'surface noise'. What is this exactly? Are we talking snap, crackle and pop or the tick, tick, tick of a feelable gouge? Ideally, there should be no noise other than the music - if there is audible background hiss or intrusive non-musical sounds, then you have to question whether the record is worth buying.

[Guest Ivor Jones]

I guess I've been lucky - almost without exception, buying from here and on discogs, every record has been better than described. EX- have been more like Mint-.

In my experience Joe's right, sellers on here are under grading, and it's a credit to them.

My only slight disappointment was a copy of that's What You Do To Me, Deon Jackson, bought from Florida via evilbay, with more scratches than I would have liked....but it plays fantastic!

Well..... That would depend on who you're buying off on this forum. I've recently had a run of terrible purchases on here for numerous reasons. Got my money back and it's not important who the sellers were , however, the sheer inconvenience of it all has seriously made me question what's going on and actually whether or not it's all worth it in the long run. For example,

I was sent a record listed as "Ex, in beautiful condition". It was a rare, long time want so I went for it. On it's arrival, I was horrified to find that it was the self same copy (same marks on the label),listed by a dealer about a month before as Vg+( and that was over graded too if truth be told. It was a VG at best and that's being kind).... The only difference being the dealer was asking £150 less.!

And, to make matters worse, the dealer had put a soundclip up and I'd decided then not to go for it because it was too bad sound wise.Took me best part of 2 weeks to get my money back after the Paypal chargeback etc.

In those circumstances ,when I had voiced my unhappiness with the condition and asked for a refund I think the appropriate action should have been an immediate refund but I had to wait for the 45 to arrive back to him before he reversed the payment. All that because he was trying it on in the first place.

I have sold many records on here and, apart from one nightmare, I've had only positivity from buyers. I grade records strictly, even more so with anything expensive and I wish others could play the game too. Its no good grading records in a dark room wearing Ray Charles sunglasses.

As far as US dealers go, Craig Moerer has to be the benchmark as far as grading is concerned . Everything I've ever bought from him is spot on condition wise.

Ivor

Edited November 11, 2014 by Ivor Jones

[Chris L]

In those circumstances ,when I had voiced my unhappiness with the condition and asked for a refund I think the appropriate action should have been an immediate refund but I had to wait for the 45 to arrive back to him before he reversed the payment. All that because he was trying it on in the first place.

 

 

That is quite normal, unless it's broken or so bad it can't play you do have to return record get refund.

[Chris L]

Record grading is a tough business and probably comes only second to whether the record is an original or not. You can have a record that looks mint but plays like hissing Sid or a ruffa-dan-ruff that plays perfect. Perhaps other SS guys & gals can share their experiences. This fell through my letterbox this morning (well actually it didn't, I had to pay £20.00 taxes & duties because the d**khead inflated the actual total value of the records.). What was he thinking of?............................

010A.jpg

 

This is what the seller actually said in his description : Bobby Womack & Peace 45 Across 110th St/Hang On In There United Artists 196 Rare Funk Soul - Vinyl is in VG+, Light Minor Marks  Condition.

 

Should have gone to Spec-savers

[billb]

Chris, is it bird-dogmusic, if so he's got another two available, send him a photo of your copy and ask him if he'll send you a VG+ as he must have sent you the wrong one?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bobby-Womack-Peace-45-Across-110th-St-Hang-On-In-There-Rare-Funk-Soul-/371105628154

[Foi]

You dont even need specs to see that bad whitish groove wear at the end of the vinyl playing area, looks like someone has tried to cut a different track with a nail rather than a stylus!!!  Shocking condition, does not correlate with the written description one bit!!  i.e. my interpretation of "light minor marks" would be "paper scuffs"

 

The seller should give up selling and go into a career where eyesight and possibly hearing is not acutely needed maybe?!

[JOE TORQUAY]

You're right generally speaking most sellers do grade well and there some Ebay sellers who do describe the record as G/VG- so you know what you're getting.

most us sellers with a lot or records now put sound clips up ( wish i knew how they get so many on, must take forever )

so you've only got your self to blame if you don't like what you get, the trouble with grading is the more a record costs the more important grading becomes.

a problem i get sometimes is people think v/g actually means very good when in fact v/g to me means nearly knackered but still plays ok ish or ok for dj-ing

joe.

[Modernsoulsucks]

Following on from what Ivor said I think it's important that members on here use the feedback system.

 

If some sellers on here are overgrading then prospective buyers need to know.

 

Either a negative if there is hassle getting the money back or a neutral if no quibble.

 

ROD

[Soul-slider]

'Skating Across 110th Street'....

[Smudger]

I've seen them like this when it has been played in an old jukebox sometimes when the needle arm is returning it scrapes over the record hence the marks .

They are never really deep    How does it play  

[Chris L]

Chris, is it bird-dogmusic, if so he's got another two available, send him a photo of your copy and ask him if he'll send you a VG+ as he must have sent you the wrong one?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bobby-Womack-Peace-45-Across-110th-St-Hang-On-In-There-Rare-Funk-Soul-/371105628154

 

Yes it was him, I've mailed him today haven't gotten reply yet.

[Chris L]

I've seen them like this when it has been played in an old jukebox sometimes when the needle arm is returning it scrapes over the record hence the marks .

They are never really deep    How does it play  

 

Dreadful wouldn't even work for DJ-ing

[Guest Ivor Jones]

That is quite normal, unless it's broken or so bad it can't play you do have to return record get refund.

Apologies Chris for going off on a tangent on your thread. I'll make this my last post on the matter but I do want to make a couple of points here.

If someone has deliberately over graded a record then surely that's wrong? So why should the buyer have to wait more time than is necessary when they have been mis-sold a record ? Sorry Chris, I have to disagree with your comment.

Purely from a customer service point of view, the refund should have been immediate. I still had to pay for Special Delivery back to him too !

Also, someone posted about people thinking V G is "Very Good condition" as though they were at fault ? That's exactly what it does mean.

I have noticed that over recent years ,as rare records have got ever harder to find,more and more people are moving the goalposts and being ,shall we say, economical with the truth regarding condition.

Get a refund Chris, that one is fit for the bin.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Ivor Jones

[Guest Soulskate70]

I think some peoples grading in some cases makes known dealers an attractive option for certain purchases. I've bought a few 45's from Manship and Sean Chapman as I wanted clean copies and knew what I would be getting...

[22ndsoul]

When buying from Ebay i always go though the rest of their stock for sale before bidding, to get a better idea of their grading and of course previous feedback.If i'm not 100% happy even if it's a long time want, i leave it. If it's a high value record and they refuse to send or include a sound clip,there's usually a reason for it.

Edited November 11, 2014 by 22ndsoul

[Chris L]

Apologies Chris for going off on a tangent on your thread. I'll make this my last post on the matter but I do want to make a couple of points here.

If someone has deliberately over graded a record then surely that's wrong? So why should the buyer have to wait more time than is necessary when they have been mis-sold a record ? Sorry Chris, I have to disagree with your comment.

Purely from a customer service point of view, the refund should have been immediate. I still had to pay for Special Delivery back to him too !

Also, someone posted about people thinking V G is "Very Good condition" as though they were at fault ? That's exactly what it does mean.

I have noticed that over recent years ,as rare records have got ever harder to find,more and more people are moving the goalposts and being ,shall we say, economical with the truth regarding condition.

Get a refund Chris, that one is fit for the bin.

 

Haven't heard anything back, I suspect I won't.

[Chris L]

When buying from Ebay i always go though the rest of their stock for sale before bidding, to get a better idea of their grading and of course previous feedback.If i'm not 100% happy even if it's a long time want, i leave it. If it's a high value record and they refuse to send or include a sound clip,there's usually a reason for it.

 

I do that too, as do most people I know.

[Chris L]

Received this reply from seller  : 

Greetings,.

I am very sorry that this record is not up to snuff. I think I know where the error occurred. I had several copies of this Womack 45, and sometimes eBay will combine listings with multiple quantities, so that one buyer doesn't have multiple listings for the same item. Unfortunately this erases the grading that I had in the other listing. I understand you grade this at poor. I previously had it graded at VG-, with jukebox scuffing, gloss loss, and minor marks. I apologize that this happened, and I will be more diligent to make sure it doesn't happen again.

 

I also apologize for you having to pay taxes. Here's a link I found on eBay that may help with future transactions: https://pages.ebay.com/help/pay/international-shipping-rules.html#who. You can also see from my eBay page (https://stores.ebay.com/Bird-Dog-Vintage-and-Vinyl/Shipping-Grading-Payment.html) where I have my policies posted.

 

Now, to the important part. Let's get this resolved. I understand you not wanting to return this record, because the shipping cost is high. I would need the record returned for a full refund. I am definitely willing to give you a fair partial refund, with a store credit for the remaining balance. I can also give you a full store credit for the amount of the record. If you have any other ideas, I would love to work it out. I pride myself on being honest, and I feel terrible that this record is not what you wanted. I am here to help and work things out.

Sincerely,

[Soulboyrecords]

Record grading is a tough business and probably comes only second to whether the record is an original or not. You can have a record that looks mint but plays like hissing Sid or a ruffa-dan-ruff that plays perfect. Perhaps other SS guys & gals can share their experiences. This fell through my letterbox this morning (well actually it didn't, I had to pay £20.00 taxes & duties because the d**khead inflated the actual total value of the records.). What was he thinking of?............................

010A.jpg

Now a few scratches ... that's quite a few. They look like JUKE Scuffs to me. If I were you I would ask for a partial refund due to the quality. If he refuses open a case. I did just this recently. I won a Wade in the Water Marlena Shaw 1 sided demo from US. It was listed with faults, the seller said it had 6 edge chips from being stored is a wire rack. You could see them in the piccy - didn't look too bad. Paid $60 + shipping. Anyhow when the 45 arrives the edge chips are clearly burns and the vinyl will never reset - it's still plasticy now. I contacted seller and asked for either a partial refund as it was not as described or a full refund if he preferred and I would send it back and pay return postage myself. He told me to get stuffed. I raised a case - and I had to escalate to 3rd level complaints but eventually EBAY refunded the full price plus shipping and told me and him that I could keep the 45 as well. Don't let the bastards get away with it, it's robbery 

 

Edited as I just saw the above post ! However .... This is defo something anyone can do if they've been stiffed and the seller won't work it out as yours gladly appears to want to do

Edited November 12, 2014 by SoulBoyRecords

[ZootSuit]

I know this is slightly off topic BUT I was more amused than annoyed by the guy who moaned about a disc he bought.

 

 

I got this response from a buyer in States, for a record sold on Ebay, I had it graded as VG, lots of scuffs BUT no scratches and plays excellent, stain on label (AND I thought you bought records to listen to them)his comments , and I genuinely do not know what tears on labels he is referring to, personally I don't think he does either  .

 

''I just send you this message to let you know why you'll get the feedback you deserve for this deal.
It was a nice try to place the record for the picture in a sleeve to cover the damages on the label edge, but some people don't buy records just to shelf them straight away after receive, no, some people take them out to have a closer look and probably to play them. Well, it could has happened accidentally without thinking about it, but you didn't even mention the label tears on both sides in your description while you had the record out of the sleeve to tell people how nice the vinyl is looking''

 

Offered him refund, he refused it , because the shipping was more than record cost, he paid £28 inc P&P for a rather scarce Jamaican issue reggae track he started getting very bitchy when I asked if he were one of these people who liked to flash records about that nobody else had BUT never played them......talk about scratch your eyes out, I was reading his email replies and pissing me self

 

NB Apparently he has no problem with the condition of the vinyl, JUST the label ????

Edited November 12, 2014 by ZootSuit

[Philreeves]

Received this reply from seller  : 

Greetings,.

I am very sorry that this record is not up to snuff. I think I know where the error occurred. I had several copies of this Womack 45, and sometimes eBay will combine listings with multiple quantities, so that one buyer doesn't have multiple listings for the same item. Unfortunately this erases the grading that I had in the other listing. I understand you grade this at poor. I previously had it graded at VG-, with jukebox scuffing, gloss loss, and minor marks. I apologize that this happened, and I will be more diligent to make sure it doesn't happen again.

 

I also apologize for you having to pay taxes. Here's a link I found on eBay that may help with future transactions: https://pages.ebay.com/help/pay/international-shipping-rules.html#who. You can also see from my eBay page (https://stores.ebay.com/Bird-Dog-Vintage-and-Vinyl/Shipping-Grading-Payment.html) where I have my policies posted.

 

Now, to the important part. Let's get this resolved. I understand you not wanting to return this record, because the shipping cost is high. I would need the record returned for a full refund. I am definitely willing to give you a fair partial refund, with a store credit for the remaining balance. I can also give you a full store credit for the amount of the record. If you have any other ideas, I would love to work it out. I pride myself on being honest, and I feel terrible that this record is not what you wanted. I am here to help and work things out.

Sincerely,

This seems like a cock-eyed solution. The seller admits his error but you have to pay for return postage?. Return it yes but you should get a full refund for the whole transaction. You should not be a loser at all. 

[billb]

Received this reply from seller  : 

Greetings,.

I am very sorry that this record is not up to snuff. I think I know where the error occurred. I had several copies of this Womack 45, and sometimes eBay will combine listings with multiple quantities, so that one buyer doesn't have multiple listings for the same item. Unfortunately this erases the grading that I had in the other listing. I understand you grade this at poor. I previously had it graded at VG-, with jukebox scuffing, gloss loss, and minor marks. I apologize that this happened, and I will be more diligent to make sure it doesn't happen again.

 

I also apologize for you having to pay taxes. Here's a link I found on eBay that may help with future transactions: https://pages.ebay.com/help/pay/international-shipping-rules.html#who. You can also see from my eBay page (https://stores.ebay.com/Bird-Dog-Vintage-and-Vinyl/Shipping-Grading-Payment.html) where I have my policies posted.

 

Now, to the important part. Let's get this resolved. I understand you not wanting to return this record, because the shipping cost is high. I would need the record returned for a full refund. I am definitely willing to give you a fair partial refund, with a store credit for the remaining balance. I can also give you a full store credit for the amount of the record. If you have any other ideas, I would love to work it out. I pride myself on being honest, and I feel terrible that this record is not what you wanted. I am here to help and work things out.

Sincerely,

This just doesn't make sense, if you were to show this reply and the photo to paypal, surely they would give you a full refund?

 

btw, he's changed his grading from VG+ to VG on the ebay advert and he has quoted VG- above. He is taking the piss.

 

You could also give him a link to this page and ask him to explain himself!

[Chris L]

This is my reply :

"Hello
I consider myself a reasonable sort of bloke but I'm having a bit of trouble here. If I understand you correctly, you admit you sent me the wrong item and want me to spend almost the same the value of the record in shipping charges to be able to get a refund. I would be grateful if you could explain the logic and morals of this ? Would you pay for return shipping ? Chris"

 

We await the reply with 'baited' breath

[Modernsoulsucks]

What about the inflated value and £20 charges.

How did that come about ?

ROD

[Swifty]

If it were me I would 've said ,' really sorry mate , my mistake ,  please keep the record and I will refund the money paid' Simples !!!

[Larsc]

 I had to pay £20.00 taxes & duties because the d**khead inflated the actual total value of the records

 

Not sure how UK customs works, but where I live you can correct inflated prices by providing a paypal receipt to the customs department. Naturally, you'll have to do this before collecting the package.

[Chris L]

Not sure how UK customs works, but where I live you can correct inflated prices by providing a paypal receipt to the customs department. Naturally, you'll have to do this before collecting the package.

 

Lars, when the postman arrived the package had already been custom cleared, there is no process to recoup any charges, especially when seller has declared a value. I get records almost daily from the US and generally it works out fine, I shouldn't bitch about 1 £20.00 mishap.........   I'm still struggling with this seller he just doesn't want to re-imburse me !!!

[Mr Smithy]

I'm curious as to what he will do with it if he gets it back.
Why would you want it back before issuing a refund if you know you sent it and it's f**ked.
Hopefully it's not getting sold again? VG- or not

 

[Mellorful]

I'm curious as to what he will do with it if he gets it back.

Why would you want it back before issuing a refund if you know you sent it and it's f**ked.

Hopefully it's not getting sold again? VG- or not

 

You strike me as very honest by asking the question; out there in the wider world there is a large number of honest people and a small number of dishonest characters, fraudsters can be found in both the seller and buyer communities. 

Sadly some buyers may report a record as shagged out even when the item was correctly graded, that action aims to extract a refund and get the record for free. To avoid that scenario some sellers may insists on getting the record returned (even where they realise they may have made a mistake) as it sends a message to the wider world not to mess with them or both parties end up out of pocket. They will even risk receiving occassional bad feedback to ensure their position is understood.

I fully understand Chris's position and sympathise with his plight. If I was in that position I would return the record on principle (even if I was a quid or two out of pocket) to demonstrate to the selling community that my integrity can be relied upon.    

[Mr Smithy]

You strike me as very honest by asking the question; out there in the wider world there is a large number of honest people and a small number of dishonest characters, fraudsters can be found in both the seller and buyer communities. 

Sadly some buyers may report a record as shagged out even when the item was correctly graded, that action aims to extract a refund and get the record for free. To avoid that scenario some sellers may insists on getting the record returned (even where they realise they may have made a mistake) as it sends a message to the wider world not to mess with them or both parties end up out of pocket. They will even risk receiving occassional bad feedback to ensure their position is understood.

I fully understand Chris's position and sympathise with his plight. If I was in that position I would return the record on principle (even if I was a quid or two out of pocket) to demonstrate to the selling community that my integrity can be relied upon.  

I was working on this from the seller

I am very sorry that this record is not up to snuff. I think I know where the error occurred. I had several copies of this Womack 45, and sometimes eBay will combine listings with multiple quantities, so that one buyer doesn't have multiple listings for the same item. Unfortunately this erases the grading that I had in the other listing. I understand you grade this at poor. I previously had it graded at VG-, with jukebox scuffing, gloss loss, and minor marks. I apologize that this happened, and I will be more diligent to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Sounds like a very loose description of the dross that Chris is now the proud owner of. If the seller knows the record and it isn't at his house then it must be the one at Chris's, unless he has multiple crap copies. So now we know that it looks "VG-"  and plays "Not at all -". Why would you want it back?

If t'were me, Chris has paid and paid extra towards Campbell's Limo fund, so I'd either send him a good one if I had one and he wants it or a refund. If Chris wants to eat the 20 and chalk it up to experience I'd thank a God that I don't believe in. My retirement plans are on hold for the next 20 years or so, but once in a while you have to pay the price for screwing up and cough up. It's not like it's a grand or 10 we're talking about here

I agree there are chancing pondscum out there but in this case it seems obvious that it isn't the case.