Emotions On Vardan

[Theothertosspot]

Have got a copy of this, purchased in the mid eighties and would like to know if it was ever booted on a look alike label, and if so what differences are there, as I have seen it listed at various prices.

Any info appreciated

 

https://images.45cat.com/the-emotions-california-do-this-for-me-vardan.jpg

 

 

 

[KevH]

Do you mean "Do this for me / Love of a girl".? Only ever seen the white/red/black label issue.Two good sides.

[KevH]

https://www.raresoulman.co.uk/d/156445/EMOTIONS

Edited November 8, 2014 by KevH

[Theothertosspot]

Opp's forgot titles, there the ones you mentioned, my copy I think is vinyl and has a glossy label.

Regards

[Theothertosspot]

Thanks for that, mine looks the same but was never quite sure as I paid nowhere near that amount thus asking the question.

[Robbk]

I've never heard that it was booted.  I don't know why they would boot it.  It was fairly common.  Also, it came out on Philips as by The lovers.  i'm sure that was just a group name change.

[KevH]

I've never heard that it was booted. I don't know why they would boot it. It was fairly common. Also, it came out on Philips as by The lovers. i'm sure that was just a group name change.

they speeded up the Philips release and dropped the spoken intro though Rob ?

[Dobber]

the lovers single is the same,intro..etc

[KevH]

the lovers single is the same,intro..etc

 

Your'e right same intro,forgot till i played it,but the Philips one is speeded up.

 

 

[pikeys dog]

Was a cheap record in ther late 80s / early 90s when I bought mine (no more than a fiver) and was fairly common.

 

It's only over the last few years that silly prices have been asked.

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

I've never heard that it was booted.  I don't know why they would boot it.  It was fairly common.  Also, it came out on Philips as by The lovers.  i'm sure that was just a group name change.

I think the Philips release doesn't have the nice flip if I recall. So if you want the slower group tune then the Vardan release is the one.

[Dave Pinch]

the vardan one should only be 50/60 tops..even tho JM got a good price a couple of years ago...still only 15 on philips

[Ficklefingers]

Didn't this also see (or destined for maybe) a release on Gate? Or have I just made that up..   Something to do with Leo Kulka, and Golden State Recorders of San Francisco? 

 

 I still have a 12" one-sided studio acetate of the DTFM side -bearing thematrix of V-1602B

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

Didn't this also see (or destined for maybe) a release on Gate? Or have I just made that up..   Something to do with Leo Kulka, and Golden State Recorders of San Francisco? 

 

 I still have a 12" one-sided studio acetate of the DTFM side -bearing thematrix of V-1602B

 

It was released on Gate 501 but its the Philips 45 i.e. the good slowie flip is missing.

[KevH]

Tying up loose ends - "Love of a girl",well over 20,000 hits on youtube,lo rider scene.........

 

Edited November 10, 2014 by KevH

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

 

 

A copy of the Gate 45

 

 

[Ficklefingers]

Nice one Andy, at least it confirms I wasn't dreaming - and interesting to learn it's the same as the Philips release.

 

As I can't enlarge the image of the Gate 45 I was wondering if there are any details listed on the label that indeed link it to either Leo Kulka and/or Golden State Recorders of San Francisco?

 

I must have forged a link at some point, and for some particular reason? I just can't remember what it was! 

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

Nice one Andy, at least it confirms I wasn't dreaming - and interesting to learn it's the same as the Philips release.

 

As I can't enlarge the image of the Gate 45 I was wondering if there are any details listed on the label that indeed link it to either Leo Kulka and/or Golden State Recorders of San Francisco?

 

I must have forged a link at some point, and for some particular reason? I just can't remember what it was! 

 

'Mark Nine Music' Produced by Arvey Andrews, written by D Saunders and M Otis, arranged and conducted by Arthur Wright.

 

'A Vardan - Gate Production'

 

I dont know if this links in ?

 

Andy

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

[Robbk]

Here's a link to an article on The Emotions/Lovers group history:

 

https://solidhitsoul.com/vardan.html

[Robbk]

Here's a scan of the Gate 501 release:

[Robbk]

The group had to change their name to The lovers, when a New Jersey Emotions group sued them.  Their connection with L.A.'s Arthur Wright was that one of The Emotions' members was a cousin of one of L.A.'s Larks(former Meadowlarks) of Money Records.  Arthur Wright was their arranger.

[Ficklefingers]

With none of the label credits creating a link to Leo Kulka or Golden State Recorders, would a consensus of opinion concur that I could then assume that the studio used to record the Vardan release was that of Golden State Recorders, and that Leo Kulka was directly involved with the studio itself - and that is my 'link', as opposed to Leo having some kind of involvement with the Lovers (nee Emotions) themselves? It would certainly make sense, but this indefatigable 'thing' inside me  remains unsatisfied and HAS to know the answer!!! 

 

Are you in a position to throw any light on my supposition please Robb? It's really starting to seriously grate on me now as to why I assume some sort of (distant, even) link between the group, the studio, and Mr Kulka..  

[Robbk]

The original Emotions' group consisted of James Gregory (Greg), Daniel Saunders (Danny), Melvin Williams (Mel), McHenry Otis (Mike), and Robert Coleman (Bob). Mike sang lead tenor on most songs, Greg was second tenor, Bob was baritone, Mel was bass or baritone depending on the song, and Danny performed a variety of parts where required.

 

Danny, a very talented musician, had taught himself to play piano and bass guitar. Greg also played piano, and he and Danny composed most of the songs themselves.The only industry connection they had when they started was Danny's brother, Ted, who was a member of Don Julian's Larks. One of the Larks' Money sides, in fact, is not the Larks at all, but this very same Emotions group, who had cut their tracks in an LA studio, with Arthur Wright doing the arrangements.

 

There's no mention in the article about The Emotions/Lovers having a connection with Kulka or Golden State Recorders. The Vardan record shows no connection to Golden State Recorders.  Arvey Andrews was the group's manager.  He was also in the same military base as the group.  Danny's brother, Ted, introduced the group to Arthur wright, down in L.A., and they had an audition.  Wright recorded several of their songs in L.A., with Andrews paying for the sessions.  Wasn't Golden State Recorders only in San Francisco, starting in 1964?   I see no evidence that the recordings on Gate Records were recorded later than The Emotions' L.A. Vardan session, nor that they were recorded in San Francisco.  The A-side was sped up, but the B side probably was just a 3rd song recorded in the L.A. session, which. I believe had 5 or 6 songs recorded.  The three on Vardan/Gate, and at least one more, the cut that appeared on the flip side of a Larks' release on Money Records.

 

I believe that Andrews got the Vardan release pressed up in The Bay Area.  During the Vardan Record's run, The label owner of The New Jersey Emotions' group sued Vardan/Andrews.   They agreed to the group name change to The Lovers.  Then, I assume that Andrews got The Lovers' version pressed up on The Bay Area's Gate Records.  I believe that the Gate flipside cut had also been recorded in L.A. by Andrews with Arthur Wright arranging and running the session.  The Gate record lists "Arthur Andrews" as the arranger.  But, I believe that was a printer error, and should have been "Arthur Wright".  I believe that Andrews, as owner, kept the master tapes, and decided to put the other flip on the new, Lovers' release, and to speed up "Do This For Me".  Either he went to Gate Records to lease the record, or, perhaps, more likely, Gate Records was his own label, too, or co-owned by him with a financial backer partner.  After some local Bay Area success, Andrews then leased the record to Mercury for national release, and they released it on Philips. 

 

I haven't seen any connection to Kulka, nor  a connection to Golden State Recorders.  Perhaps Andrews DID get the speeding up job and recording of the new flip side cut done by Kulka at Golden State Recorders in San Francisco.  But, I've seen no evidence of that.  And, I've also never seen evidence that Arthur Wright commuted north to The Bay Area to arrange and run recording sessions.  On the contrary, I have seen several situations in which Bay area groups traveled down to L.A. to record using Arthur Wright.

Edited November 12, 2014 by RobbK

[KevH]

Robb,is the Gate release the same tempo as the Philips release,.? 

[Agentsmith]

Robb,is the Gate release the same tempo as the Philips release,.? 

think robb's already covered that kev, and i would concur as i have the phillips issue and it's definitely speeded up...to be honest i thought it was my record deck, but this proves to be not the case!...great l.a. tune and got every chance of going massive if enough forward thinking djs start spinning it.

[Robbk]

Robb,is the Gate release the same tempo as the Philips release,.? 

Yes, it's the same 2 sides as Philips.

[Agentsmith]

i wonder if our freind, robbk should, if he hasn't already been, be inducted into the hall of fame on here.....a major authority alongside the late boba

[KevH]

think robb's already covered that kev, and i would concur as i have the phillips issue and it's definitely speeded up...to be honest i thought it was my record deck, but this proves to be not the case!...great l.a. tune and got every chance of going massive if enough forward thinking djs start spinning it.

 

Sorry missed that.Thanks Robb.!!

[Robbk]

i wonder if our freind, robbk should, if he hasn't already been, be inducted into the hall of fame on here.....a major authority alongside the late boba

I'm honoured to be mentioned in the same breath as our esteemed departed friend, Bob A (may he be spinning discs in the place we will all go after our toil here is done!)

[Agentsmith]

I'm honoured to be mentioned in the same breath as our esteemed departed friend, Bob A (may he be spinning discs in the place we will all go after our toil here is done!)

just based on what i read here over the years, you have been a regular contributor and a valued source of information...and most importantly, you're over there, whilst we're here...must have been a very emotive and traumatic occasion at bob's passing & funeral....there was and still is, a profound depth of shock and loss, when we look back at years end and see the roll call of the departed, it will make tragic reading.

[Robbk]

just based on what i read here over the years, you have been a regular contributor and a valued source of information...and most importantly, you're over there, whilst we're here...must have been a very emotive and traumatic occasion at bob's passing & funeral....there was and still is, a profound depth of shock and loss, when we look back at years end and see the roll call of the departed, it will make tragic reading.

It's not so much that I'm in USA (because I'm only there about 25% of the time- but also in Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Germany and Canada large chunks of each year), but, rather, that I WAS in Chicago, Detroit, and L.A, DURING the time that the music was being made, and was buying up R&B and Soul 45s by the thousand during those times (1953-1972), and also working for Motown during most of the 1970s, and helping run a Soul record label from 1979-84.

 

Yes, it was traumatic learning so suddenly about Bob's passing, and not having had any inkling that such a thing might happen.  We were friends, as we had similar interests and tastes in Soul music, and were both from Chicago, and loved Chicago soul so very much.  We swapped records and CDs.  During his last 3 years or so, we communicated almost every day in e-mails, on Soul-source threads, and sometimes by phone.  Yet, we weren't close enough friends for me to find out that he was depressed, and had threatened suicide once before.  I've lost many friends to illness and old age, but none so young as Bob, and so tragically.