Bootleg History Please

Dayo · November 5, 2004

Something has puzzled me for a while. I was thinking back to the days of Selectadisc and the Simon Soussan bootlegs - or pressings, as we used to call them.

Most of them, and I guess we can think of hundreds, came out on two colour labels; Saxie Russell, Alice Clark, Bob Relf etc. But occasionally he seemed to push the boat out and go for something multi-coloured; Thelma Lindsay springs to mind. Do these have any kind of legitimacy?

And what about the MGM and Sceptor stuff? Thinking of Clara Ward, Dottie Cambridge, Tommy Hunt. I'm guessing these were limited run issues that he persuaded the record companies to press up?

And lastly, what was the first so called Northern record to be booted? I'm guessing it may have been "Baby Reconsider" - memory is hazy on this, but was it on "Soul Sounds" or something similar.

Any insights or knowledge about the early days of boots would be much appreciated.

Colin

Edited November 5, 2004 by Dayo

Pete S · November 5, 2004

But occasionally he seemed to push the boat out and go for something multi-coloured; Thelma Lindsay springs to mind.
Any coloured label Thelma Lindsay's are originals mate, the bootlegs are either grey or later, green. The originals were still only a fiver in 1977.
And what about the MGM and Sceptor stuff? Thinking of Clara Ward, Dottie Cambridge, Tommy Hunt. I'm guessing these were limited run issues that he persuaded the record companies to press up?
Not sure if they had anything to do with SS but they are all legit, don't think the later MGM SP series are though
And lastly, what was the first so called Northern record to be booted? I'm guessing it may have been "Baby Reconsider" - memory is hazy on this, but was it on "Soul Sounds" or something similar.

You are correct, Hawood is SS 1001, then it's

D height - grapevine

holiday & king

shirley ellis!

human beinz!

tami lynn

gene chandler - time

round robin

invitations

and so on until you reach ss 1029 (ronnie milsap)

Out of all the 29 soul sounds releases I think there is only one that didn't come out on a UK label in the 60's (there was a time)

Dayo · November 5, 2004

Yes, I remember the outrage when Leon Haywood was pressed - rather poor quality too if I recall. It was at the time when I was taking my baby steps onto the scene. Gene Chandler was a massive record, but just starting to come over in quantity, ditto the Human Beinz (great pop!) Also remember hearing Up and Down the Ladder, Check yourself, Jerryo, Johnny Taylor and the Poets at my first "do".

Was it a Leicester guy did the very first boots?

November 5, 2004

Hope i don't get a libel action here (Mike if it's dangerous pull my post for gods sake)

wasn't the Leicester guy called Jeff King..............God help me, i have a 19 week old daughter and a lousy job.

yours Brett....in hiding

ps f*** it can't we name all the bootleggers Mike?

John May · November 5, 2004

Hope i don't get a libel action here (Mike if it's dangerous pull my post for gods sake)
wasn't the Leicester guy called Jeff King..............God help me, i have a 19 week old daughter and a lousy job.
yours Brett....in hiding
ps f*** it can't we name all the bootleggers Mike?

link

Writs in the post Brett .......... only joking.

Jm

Dayo · November 5, 2004

Sod it - he can sue me too. That's the name I was trying to think of.

Dayo · November 5, 2004

Was all the Mirwood stuff bootlegs?

What about things like the Audio Arts Strings? And what's the story behind that track anyway? Did it ever get a previous issue or was it one from the vaults that Soussan dug out?

And whatever happened to the eccentric one himself? Was anyone there the night he did a guest spot at Wigan. Dire, dire, dire!

November 6, 2004

I've been told that Jeff (originally an importer) was possibly the first - with The Poets "She Blew A Good Thing".

He followed this up with the 30 more on the 'Soul Sounds' label.Â He sold most of his records at All-nighters and through shops like 'Ralphs' of Manchester. 'Soul Sounds' label started the trend ('O.O.T.P.' , 'SIMON SOUSSAN' ). Every record on 'Soul Sounds' came out on British release apart from his first - 'Baby Reconcider' Leon Haywood SS1001

Many custom re-presses for the U.K only were done for SELECTA DISC in Nottingham, and had nothing to do with SOUSSAN.

[oops - Al forgot to log out last night... This message is actually from me, KOLLA :thumbsup: ]

Edited November 6, 2004 by AL_R

Jerry Hipkiss · November 6, 2004

Was all the Mirwood stuff bootlegs?

Spooky coincidence time - was going to post something on this! If all we read in the past is true, then Soussan bought all the Mirwood stuff, tapes, acetates and all. I remember reading somewhere that he was told to clear the crap out of Fred Smith's (I think) garage as he was disenchanted with the whole thing. Therefore, if that's true, I suppose he legally had them and they weren't boots. Bit of a grey area, though.

Jerry "Hippo" Hipkiss

Jerry Hipkiss · November 6, 2004

And lastly, what was the first so called Northern record to be booted? I'm guessing it may have been "Baby Reconsider"
link

The first boot I ever bought was the Invitations "What's wrong with me baby" on a red label from Froggy Taylor in '69, along with 6 by 6 on Soul. Thinkthat was before the Soul Sounds boots, but can't be 100 per cent on it.

And to my eternal shame, that wasto replace my elder sisters Stateside issue which I'd sold (behind her back) in 1967. Think she's just about forgiven me...

November 6, 2004

And lastly, what was the first so called Northern record to be booted? I'm guessing it may have been "Baby Reconsider"

As in above posting Jeff had brought out The Poets before starting Soul Sounds.

Here's the full SS discography:-

01 LEON HAYWOOD. BABY RECONSIDER.

02 DONALD HEIGHT. TALK OF THE GRAPEVINE.

03 JIMMY HOLIDAY & CLYDIE KING. READY WILLING AND ABLE.

04 SHIRLEY ELLIS. SOUL TIME.

05 HUMAN BEINZ. NOBODY BUT ME.

06 TAMMI LYNN. I'M GONNA RUN AWAY FROM YOU.

07 GENE CHANDLER. THERE WAS A TIME.

08 ROUND ROBIN. KICK THAT LITTLE FOOT SALLY ANN.

09 INVITATIONS. WHAT'S WRONG WITH ME BABY.

10 EARL HARRISON. HUMPHREY STOMP.

11 ALEXANDER PATTON. A LIL' LOVIN SOMETIMES.

12 CHUCK JACKSON. CHAINS OF LOVE.

13 DEAN PARRISH. DETERMINATION.

14 PEACHES AND HERB. WE'RE IN THIS THING TOGETHER.

15 MARY LOVE. YOU TURNED MY BITTER INTO SWEET.

16 BARBARA LEWIS. SOMEDAY WE'RE GONNA LOVE AGAIN.

17 MITCH RYDER & THE DETROIT WHEELS. BREAK OUT.

18 BLENDELLS. DANCE WITH ME.

19 SOUL SISTERS. GOOD TIME TONIGHT.

20 DEAN PARRISH. TELL HER.

21 LITTLE ANTHONY AND THE IMPERIALS. GONNA FIX YOU GOOD.

22 CHUBBY CHECKER. (AT THE) DISCOTEQUE.

23 THE SHARPEES. (a) TIRED OF BEING LONELY. ( DO THE 45.

24 ROSCOE ROBINSON. THAT'S ENOUGH.

25 INCREDIBLES. THERE'S NOTHING ELSE TO SAY.

26 HOMER BANKS. HOOKED BY LOVE.

27 MARGIE HENDRIX. RESTLESS.

28 BOBBY SHEEN. DR. LOVE.

29 RONNIE MILSAP. AIN'T NO SOUL (LEFT IN THESE OLD SHOES).

30 DOBIE GRAY. OUT ON THE FLOOR.

vaultofsouler · November 6, 2004

And lastly, what was the first so called Northern record to be booted? I'm guessing it may have been "Baby Reconsider" - memory is hazy on this, but was it on "Soul Sounds" or something similar.

Colin

link

Did this not also get booted on Fat Fish and Vault....????.... making 3 boots going about....

If so how many other records have more than one boot....????....

Pete S · November 6, 2004

If so how many other records have more than one boot....????....
link

Loads and loads - velvet satins, wombat, connie clark, yvonne baker, rainbows, invitations, thats just off the top of my head, there are probably several hundred

Pete S · November 6, 2004

Did this not also get booted on Fat Fish and Vault....????.... making 3 boots going about....

link

The Fat Fish boot is really good, looks like a white label demo pressed on vinyl, it was done again around 77 on a red Fat Fish label on styrene. Never liked this record, apart from the intro.

Dayo · November 8, 2004

And lastly, what was the first so called Northern record to be booted? I'm guessing it may have been "Baby Reconsider"
link

The first boot I ever bought was the Invitations "What's wrong with me baby" on a red label from Froggy Taylor in '69, along with 6 by 6 on Soul. Thinkthat was before the Soul Sounds boots, but can't be 100 per cent on it.

And to my eternal shame, that wasto replace my elder sisters Stateside issue which I'd sold (behind her back) in 1967. Think she's just about forgiven me...
link

I recall a guy called Froggy around the West Midlands. Think I met him in 1970. Was he from Wolverhampton? I seem to remember he had just come back from the States (very unusual at that time). He had things like There was a Time, Out on the Floor etc by the dozen.

Paul R · November 8, 2004

And whatever happened to the eccentric one himself? Was anyone there the night he did a guest spot at Wigan. Dire, dire, dire!

link

I was in Russ's shop one Saturday afternoon and the pink suited one (Mr Soussan) had just arrived with some future classics that got played over the shops record player. I actually kept quiet until the new version of "Thumb A Ride" came over the speakers. All I could do was say loudly What The f**k is this. Soussan could only give me a dirty look for criticising his latest masterpiece.

Saying that, he also introduced some real classics to the scene even if it was for his own financial benefit.

Headsy · November 8, 2004

its only libellous if its not true so you are OK....... Jeff King is now selling again , if its the same person :thumbsup:

Jerry Hipkiss · November 9, 2004

I recall a guy called Froggy around the West Midlands. Think I met him in 1970. Was he from Wolverhampton? I seem to remember he had just come back from the States (very unusual at that time). He had things like There was a Time, Out on the Floor etc by the dozen.

link

Yup, that would be the same guy - he was from Gloucester, just about THE face on the mod scene in '66, best scooter, best blonde babe with him...at the time you remember him, he was jocking at the Cats and supposedly was the first with a Sandi Sheldon (the full story is in the "In Crowd" book). Sadly he got very much on the nasty stuff and died in the late '80's. Sad, sad, sad.

Jerry.

Dayo · November 9, 2004

Yup, that would be the same guy - he was from Gloucester, just about THE face on the mod scene in '66, best scooter, best blonde babe with him...at the time you remember him, he was jocking at the Cats and supposedly was the first with a Sandi Sheldon (the full story is in the "In Crowd" book). Sadly he got very much on the nasty stuff and died in the late '80's. Sad, sad, sad.

Jerry.

link

That is sad. I remember him with a suitcase full of Okeh stuff, so the Sandi Sheldon story rings true.

Jerry, are you from Gloucester?

Colin

Platters 81 · November 9, 2004

didnt Jeff King do these ...pre Soul Sounds?.......(flip is Soul Sisters....."good time tonight")......A+B....reversed on mine.........what a fabbo tune "invitation" is.......

Iancsloft · November 9, 2004

As in above posting Jeff had brought out The Poets before starting Soul Sounds.

Here's the full SS discography:-
01 LEON HAYWOOD. BABY RECONSIDER.
02 DONALD HEIGHT. TALK OF THE GRAPEVINE.
03 JIMMY HOLIDAY & CLYDIE KING. READY WILLING AND ABLE.
04 SHIRLEY ELLIS. SOUL TIME.
05 HUMAN BEINZ. NOBODY BUT ME.
06 TAMMI LYNN. I'M GONNA RUN AWAY FROM YOU.
07 GENE CHANDLER. THERE WAS A TIME.
08 ROUND ROBIN. KICK THAT LITTLE FOOT SALLY ANN.
09 INVITATIONS. WHAT'S WRONG WITH ME BABY.
10 EARL HARRISON. HUMPHREY STOMP.
11 ALEXANDER PATTON. A LIL' LOVIN SOMETIMES.
12 CHUCK JACKSON. CHAINS OF LOVE.
13 DEAN PARRISH. DETERMINATION.
14 PEACHES AND HERB. WE'RE IN THIS THING TOGETHER.
15 MARY LOVE. YOU TURNED MY BITTER INTO SWEET.
16 BARBARA LEWIS. SOMEDAY WE'RE GONNA LOVE AGAIN.
17 MITCH RYDER & THE DETROIT WHEELS. BREAK OUT.
18 BLENDELLS. DANCE WITH ME.
19 SOUL SISTERS. GOOD TIME TONIGHT.
20 DEAN PARRISH. TELL HER.
21 LITTLE ANTHONY AND THE IMPERIALS. GONNA FIX YOU GOOD.
22 CHUBBY CHECKER. (AT THE) DISCOTEQUE.
23 THE SHARPEES. (a) TIRED OF BEING LONELY. ( DO THE 45.
24 ROSCOE ROBINSON. THAT'S ENOUGH.
25 INCREDIBLES. THERE'S NOTHING ELSE TO SAY.
26 HOMER BANKS. HOOKED BY LOVE.
27 MARGIE HENDRIX. RESTLESS.
28 BOBBY SHEEN. DR. LOVE.
29 RONNIE MILSAP. AIN'T NO SOUL (LEFT IN THESE OLD SHOES).
30 DOBIE GRAY. OUT ON THE FLOOR.

link

=================================================

My God that looks like the current playlist of several DJ,s

Dayo · November 9, 2004

didnt Jeff King do these ...pre Soul Sounds?.......(flip is Soul Sisters....."good time tonight")......A+B....reversed on mine.........what a fabbo tune "invitation" is.......

link

That's interesting! And yes, what a fab British soul/pop record "Invitation" is. Had the chance to speak to Mike D'Abo once regarding this tune. You probably know he went on to great success with Manfred Mann, but sang lead on The Band Of Angels track, and, if memory serves, wrote it too.

Anyway, he was chuffed the song was remembered and fully aware of it's success on the early soul/r'n'b scene.

Edited November 9, 2004 by Dayo

Dayo · November 9, 2004

PS Did you know that Mike D'Abo also wrote "Build me up buttercup" for the Foundations?

Gone way off topic now (sorry)!

Edited November 9, 2004 by Dayo

soulAdequateNP · November 9, 2004

Loads and loads - velvet satins, wombat, connie clark, yvonne baker, rainbows, invitations, thats just off the top of my head, there are probably several hundred

link

I seem to remember the Del Larks was also booted at least twice - one on a counterfiet of the original label design, the other on a plain label with "Queen City" in large print across the top.

Pete S · November 9, 2004

PS Did you know that Mike D'Abo also wrote "Build me up buttercup" for the Foundations?

Gone way off topic now (sorry)!

link

Co-wrote

Jerry Hipkiss · November 11, 2004

Jerry, are you from Gloucester?

Colin

link

From Cheltenham mate - but what's nine miles ... the Chelt and Glos crowd grew up together, in fact Northern Soul is about the one area where Cheltenham and Gloucester people hang together!

Jerry.

Jerry Hipkiss · November 11, 2004

Had the chance to speak to Mike D'Abo once regarding this tune, he was chuffed the song was remembered and fully aware of it's success on the early soul/r'n'b scene.

link

I was working with Mike at the time it got reissued on Soul Supply, as I remember he'd spoken with Kev Roberts about its release and was proud of it! Not that he neede the royalties - he did well enough out of music for TV commercials for that!

Jerry.

November 11, 2004

Sold my copy of Leon Haywood a few weeks back, What has always puzzle me is why it was a demo? Surely it wasn't meant for a radio station.

Pete S · November 11, 2004

somebody's just put a datestamp on it....probably when he bought it...Soul Sounds had long stopped doing records by then I think

November 11, 2004

Possible, but the stamp similar to other UK Demo's I've got.

Where the Leon Haywood all white labels?

Pete S · November 11, 2004

Possible, but the stamp similar to other UK Demo's I've got.
Where the Leon Haywood all white labels?

link

Yeah but thats just a datestamp mate, you get them even now, in offices etc...and yes they are all white, other colours were red and green I think

Godzilla · November 11, 2004

Possible, but the stamp similar to other UK Demo's I've got.
Where the Leon Haywood all white labels?

link

It's just one of those date stamps with rotating numbers. And All the LH on Soul Sounds I've seen are white.

G

November 11, 2004

I guess you're right, but why bother.

Dayo · November 12, 2004

From Cheltenham mate - but what's nine miles ... the Chelt and Glos crowd grew up together, in fact Northern Soul is about the one area where Cheltenham and Gloucester people hang together!

Jerry.

link

Jerry - I'm sure we're acquainted. Back in the early eighties I was doing a soul show on Radio Wyvern - Colin Day? If I'm right you were quite encouraging? I'm from Worcester originally. Used to hang with people like Polo, Dick Warburton, Don Palmer et al.

Jerry Hipkiss · November 13, 2004

Jerry - I'm sure we're acquainted. Back in the early eighties I was doing a soul show on Radio Wyvern - Colin Day? If I'm right you were quite encouraging? I'm from Worcester originally. Used to hang with people like Polo, Dick Warburton, Don Palmer et al.

link

--------------

Yup, I'd sussed that it was you Colin, and yes, we know each other - that great wacky world of radio huh? Both ended up with soul shows on the radio, can you imagine being allowed to do that on either Wyvern or Severn these days? I can't really sign my posts as Hippo, as there's already a usurper from the East Mids on here using that name :lol: and as he was here first and is probably bigger than me I'll just have to use my own name, those who know me, know me and the rest probably couldn't care less :thumbsup: ,

But for a fuller version why not try to get to the Saracens Club in Cheltenham next Friday - the bar's open, Polo's been down the last few months, John Farrell and Rob Hurcombe are guesting at Christmas, and I might even buy you a pint Colin!

Jerry.

November 13, 2004

Further to the bootleg (pressings) stuff. SS was not as involved as everyone thinks, especially around 70-73. This is a long story and possibly actionable. One of the people in question is likely to still be alive. If we meet at a venue maybe we could have a chat.

November 16, 2004

JJ Barnes "Sweet sherry" b/w Wingate Strings "Let's have a love-in"

You don't see this old boot around much now. Any idea when it was pressed?

Craig W · November 16, 2004

JJ Barnes "Sweet sherry" b/w Wingate Strings "Let's have a love-in"

You don't see this old boot around much now. Any idea when it was pressed?

link

Bootlegged in 1973 on Groovesville 505 in the motor city.Longbridge.

November 16, 2004

Bootlegged in 1973 on Groovesville 505 in the motor city.Longbridge.

link

Made in LA not Detroit. A Soul Galore company reissue!

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