After Wigan?

[Wiganer1]

Also If you read david nowells book too darn soulful

 

lots on the 80s in there too

[Steve G]

So, every time I see anything about Northern Soul these days (and I've seen lots) it seems that when the casino closed the scene died.

 

Actually the saturday night sessions at the Casino were dying, long before the Casino itself died. The Oldies nights - introduced when 1978? on a Friday were very popular, but some Saturdays in the latter days there were only 300 in. The place was very quiet.....rather than a scene dying it was a scene evolving.

 

And for that reason I am afraid any book you write may well be flawed in it's assumptions.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Steve G

[Bagasulph]

Actually the saturday night sessions at the Casino were dying, long before the Casino itself died. The Oldies nights - introduced when 1978? on a Friday were very popular, but some Saturdays in the latter days there were only 300 in. The place was very quiet.....rather than a scene dying it was a scene evolving.

 

And for that reason I am afraid any book you write may well be flawed in it's assumptions.

That's the point of what I'm writing mate - this isn't my assumption, it's the assumption of TV producers and the media. I know the scene wasn't dying because the 80s was, for me, the pinnacle. It's time the full story was told!

[Bagasulph]

Also If you read david nowells book too darn soulful

 

lots on the 80s in there too

Forgot all about that - got it in my hands now. Cheers!

[Bagasulph]

OK. The first thing I guess I have to do is decide which clubs to focus on. As I said to someone earlier, listing every single club that ran after 1981 will be a chore to read. Obviously they all have a place, but give me some opinions on which clubs were major contributors to the evolution of the scene in the 1980s, and why.

 

I won't ignore any clubs btw or try to write them out of history, just don't want to get bogged down in way too much information.

[Hooker1951]

Good luck with your project,you will need i set of ensyclopedias to cover what happened after Wigan every promoter,every dj every soulie  every venue every soulie would have a piece of the jigsaw to make the story the way they saw it after Wigan. Dig a little deeper beyond the usual suspects for stories you might be pleasantly surprised at what you discover otherwise you,ll end up with the same as.there are a good many unsung soul stalwarts male and female who helped to keep the scene going for the last 33 years some sadly are no longer with us but I'm sure their friends and family would love it if they got a little mention in your project.Again I wish you well with After Wigan Stoy.

                                                                      God Bless Mick L

[Rhino]

Thanks mate. Right now I'm just taking notes. Will do some research and try to get a basic structure together then will be looking for details to turn it into a story. I'll take you up on this then!

 

 

the morecambe pier allnighters were were wll attended and jammy packed on anniversarys and night when they had acts on. a solid 3 years of very busy nights 

[Saxafone]

the morecambe pier allnighters were were wll attended and jammy packed on anniversarys and night when they had acts on. a solid 3 years of very busy nights 

Indeed they were, especially with locals who knew the "alternative" ways in 

 

Taff

[Speedlimit]

. 

would be pleased to help out got thousands of photos from Stafford, 1oo club , etc which my sister took  was the best time on the scene for many of use also d.j.d quiet a lot in the 80.s and 90,s so can contribute, as much as possible be great to have the dark years put down in the history books   :thumbsup:      

[Bagasulph]

Speedlimit.. That's exactly the kind of response I was hoping for! I'll give you a shout after the weekend. Thank you!!

[Bagasulph]

Mick, that's the problem I have - I can't simply list every venue and every DJ. I realise that the pieces are spread far and wide and fitting the jigsaw together would be an impossible task. As I said, I'm not going to miss anything if it fits but the focus has to be the groundbreaking clubs and the most influential DJs.

[Guest MBarrett]

Mick, that's the problem I have - I can't simply list every venue and every DJ. I realise that the pieces are spread far and wide and fitting the jigsaw together would be an impossible task. As I said, I'm not going to miss anything if it fits but the focus has to be the groundbreaking clubs and the most influential DJs.

 

Nothing wrong with appendices I would have thought.

 

To make sure that as much as possible gets a mention, even if not enough room in the main body of the book.

[Bagasulph]

Indeed. Don't get me wrong, as I said I won't miss anything out!

[Chalky]

Mick, that's the problem I have - I can't simply list every venue and every DJ. I realise that the pieces are spread far and wide and fitting the jigsaw together would be an impossible task. As I said, I'm not going to miss anything if it fits but the focus has to be the groundbreaking clubs and the most influential DJs.

If you go to my site you will see the most complete record of who played what at Stafford, still more to do.  There is almost 60 podcasts, nearly 300 photos of the rogues who frequented not just Stafford but Oddfellows, Blackburn, Chesterfield and may other 80's venues.

 

I have echoes from the year and half after Wigan and there are a lot of bleak weekends but the two mainstays were probably Cleethorpes and Clifton Hall until early to mid 1982.  You then got Stafford, Oddfellows, Morecombe, 100 Club, Warrington, Blackburn, Chesterfield Winding Wheel, Bradford and countless other venues, some just a nighter or two, some a year or two.

 

i have loads of flyers, many on my flickr page, echoes and other magazines.  Let me know what you want specifically and will help where ever.  I will be doing a definitive written history of Stafford with hopefully Dave Thorley when I get to the end of the podcasts.

[Chalky]

Previous topic with link to my flyers on flickr...

 

[Chalky]

Oh nearly forgot Ruff Cutt, Shotts!

[Chalky]

Topic regarding 80's venues.

 

[Ian Dewhirst]

Actually I'm just putting the finishing touches to a project which will attempt to cover the scene from 'circa 1968 to present, generally - "The Odyssey: A Northern Soul Time-Capsule". The problem is that with a project which is limited to a certain format and length, like a CD, Book or Film for instance, you end up having to execute some broad strokes in order to fit with broader expectations. This means that the most influential and significant venues of any era, tend to be the ones which had the biggest impact at the time and the ones which will be concentrated upon forevermore. 

 

It would be interesting to try and get some kind of timeline for the various venues which operated from 1980 onwards. The 100 Club and Stafford tend to dominate the 1980s but I'd be interested in seeing the timeline for the other venues in that period. In fact, it would be nice to feature the timeline on the Odyssey (if Mike's OK with this, I'll credit the timeline to the Soul Source collective). If nothing else, it would document the particular periods where popular regional all-nighters and venues operated. This way we could see how the scene developed across the UK from 1968 to present. It'd be interesting to me to see what records were breaking in regional areas and who was playing 'em.

 

Sorry for gatecrashing your thread Bagasulph but I'm looking at this era myself right now. Best of luck with the project! 

 

Ian D 

[Ian Dewhirst]

If you go to my site you will see the most complete record of who played what at Stafford, still more to do.  There is almost 60 podcasts, nearly 300 photos of the rogues who frequented not just Stafford but Oddfellows, Blackburn, Chesterfield and may other 80's venues.

 

I have echoes from the year and half after Wigan and there are a lot of bleak weekends but the two mainstays were probably Cleethorpes and Clifton Hall until early to mid 1982.  You then got Stafford, Oddfellows, Morecombe, 100 Club, Warrington, Blackburn, Chesterfield Winding Wheel, Bradford and countless other venues, some just a nighter or two, some a year or two.

 

i have loads of flyers, many on my flickr page, echoes and other magazines.  Let me know what you want specifically and will help where ever.  I will be doing a definitive written history of Stafford with hopefully Dave Thorley when I get to the end of the podcasts.

 

Gonna PM ya Chalky!

 

Ian D 

[El Corol]

I think many would agree that Clifton Hall should be featured. Started not long before Wigan finished, pulled in good crowds, played lots of "newies" which meant both new 60s discoveries and lots of 70s, early 80s sounds, stuff being played from the final year of Wigan like Otis Clay on Echo.

Theres plenty on here who would have gone there. Sean Hampsey is one to talk to.

Edited October 31, 2014 by El Corol

[MrsWoodsrules]

Actually I'm just putting the finishing touches to a project which will attempt to cover the scene from 'circa 1968 to present, generally - "The Odyssey: A Northern Soul Time-Capsule". The problem is that with a project which is limited to a certain format and length, like a CD, Book or Film for instance, you end up having to execute some broad strokes in order to fit with broader expectations. This means that the most influential and significant venues of any era, tend to be the ones which had the biggest impact at the time and the ones which will be concentrated upon forevermore. 

 

It would be interesting to try and get some kind of timeline for the various venues which operated from 1980 onwards. The 100 Club and Stafford tend to dominate the 1980s but I'd be interested in seeing the timeline for the other venues in that period. In fact, it would be nice to feature the timeline on the Odyssey (if Mike's OK with this, I'll credit the timeline to the Soul Source collective). If nothing else, it would document the particular periods where popular regional all-nighters and venues operated. This way we could see how the scene developed across the UK from 1968 to present. It'd be interesting to me to see what records were breaking in regional areas and who was playing 'em.

 

Sorry for gatecrashing your thread Bagasulph but I'm looking at this era myself right now. Best of luck with the project! 

 

Ian D 

 

Did Parr Hall Warrington make it in there Ian?

Edited October 31, 2014 by MrsWoodsrules

[Ian Dewhirst]

Did Parr Hall Warrington make it in there Ian?

 

This is precisely what I'd like to address. Don't wanna miss anywhere significant out if I can avoid it. The scene was probably much more splintered from the 80s onwards, but that's still a key part of the history and may well explain the way the scene expanded to become a UK wide scene rather than an exclusive North-West centric scene......

 

Ian D 

[Chalky]

I think many would agree that Clifton Hall should be featured. Started not long before Wigan finished, pulled in good crowds, played lots of "newies" which meant both new 60s discoveries and lots of 70s, early 80s sounds, stuff being played from the final year of Wigan like Otis Clay on Echo.

Theres plenty on here who would have gone there. Sean Hampsey is one to talk to.

 

Recent Clifton Hall topic.....

 

[Guest Byrney]

Some people id suggest are vital to add to the full Story: Jim Ohara for Shotts, Kitch as a collector and reluctant DJ, Dean Anderson for turning up tunes in the back ground, Ion, Colin Law, of course Guy and Butch, Barry May for downstairs at Bradford, Rob Marriott, Dave Malloy, Gilly... Can have a word with some to see if they'd like to be involved.

[Chalky]

It is such a vast story, you need to get the venues and the timeline as suggested and then decide what you wish to focus on and take it from there. Some of the venues despite being popular were not ground breaking and featured mainly oldies, especially during the 90's. 

Edited October 31, 2014 by chalky

[Guest Byrney]

It is such a vast story, you need to get the venues and the timeline as suggested and then decide what you wish to focus on and take it from there. Some of the venues despite being popular were not ground breaking and featured mainly oldies, especially during the 90's. 

Very good point. It is that vast it would probably be better to focus on the venues that had their own identity or created a new plot point in the story. Keele for example often gets mentioned when referring to the 80s, yes it pulled numbers but it was mainly an oldies do which our lot went to if nothing else was on.

 

I just remembered I started a thread years ago around whether the would be a market for a book about post Wigan - I'll try and dig it out. 

 

I will say though all the books on the subject other than Gareth and Eilane's touched lightly on the 80s at best. G and E's book particularly got one major point over, there was a bit of fresh attitude in the 80s where respect (where it was due) was paid to the past, but there was no doffing of caps. It was for many venues a return to the ethos of the next big soul sound and taking the scene forward rather than backward.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Byrney

[Hooker1951]

Dave Rimmer is currently doing a timeline on all the past allniters when they started n finished,most successful periods ect. I gave him some info on Tony,s Blackburn I'm sure Dave would be a barrel of information on your project After Wigan.

kind regards Mick L

[Petebangor]

Actually the saturday night sessions at the Casino were dying, long before the Casino itself died. The Oldies nights - introduced when 1978? on a Friday were very popular, but some Saturdays in the latter days there were only 300 in. The place was very quiet.....rather than a scene dying it was a scene evolving.

 

And for that reason I am afraid any book you write may well be flawed in it's assumptions.

 

Saturday nights were quiet, towards the latter days of Wigan. But, those last 2 years musically, in my opinion, was the pinnacle.  Searling was at the top his game, fantastic 60's played back to back with new releases. Not forgetting Gary Rushbrooke, he had some great tunes too 

[Guest Byrney]

Here's the thread from 2010:

 

Very good point. It is that vast it would probably be better to focus on the venues that had their own identity or created a new plot point in the story. Keele for example often gets mentioned when referring to the 80s, yes it pulled numbers but it was mainly an oldies do which our lot went to if nothing else was on.

 

I just remembered I started a thread years ago around whether the would be a market for a book about post Wigan - I'll try and dig it out. 

 

I will say though all the books on the subject other than Gareth and Eilane's touched lightly on the 80s at best. G and E's book particularly got one major point over, there was a bit of fresh attitude in the 80s where respect (where it was due) was paid to the past, but there was no doffing of caps. It was for many venues a return to the ethos of the next big soul sound and taking the scene forward rather than backward.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Dave Rimmer is currently doing a timeline on all the past allniters when they started n finished,most successful periods ect. I gave him some info on Tony,s Blackburn I'm sure Dave would be a barrel of information on your project After Wigan.

kind regards Mick L

 

I think Dave's actually doing that timeline for The Odyssey. You can tell I'm taking this seriously......

 

Ian D 

[Hooker1951]

Cheers Ian can now see were its all leading.

                                   God Bless Mick L

[Zed1]

. I gave him some info on Tony,s Blackburn

 

What did you tell him?..... The Lenny Gamble cover was shite.....

[Simon T]

Whenever it was it wasn't when Stafford started in April '82 unless it was another DJ.

Which years were Ian Clarke & Ady Pountain DJing at Stafford?

[Scal]

Why has no one mentioned Elaine Constantine....wasn't that her era?

[Hooker1951]

I told him that you Scal and peterbanger listen to his show excitedly every sat on radio 2

                             Best wishes M L

 

What did you tell him?..... The Lenny Gamble cover was shite.....

[Dave Rimmer]

I think Dave's actually doing that timeline for The Odyssey. You can tell I'm taking this seriously......

 

Ian D 

 

Yep, that's what I was asked to do it for. Without going and looking I also said that the breakdown of venues pre Wigan to post Wigan was about a 35% to 65% split, ie the post Wigan venues were more prominent in the timeline given that Wigan closed in 1981 , and it's now 2014.

 

I let Glenn Gunton have the info a couple of months ago, so don't actually know where they were up to with the liner notes / booklet for the 'Odessey' release.

[Bagasulph]

Hi Iain, no problem with what you're doing but it would be helpful if you maybe started your own thread as there are now two seperate things being discussed here and it's quite confusing.

[Scal]

I told him that you Scal and peterbanger listen to his show excitedly every sat on radio 2

Best wishes M L

[Scal]

I told him that you Scal and peterbanger listen to his show excitedly every sat on radio 2

Sorry...what??? Best wishes M L

[Hooker1951]

Thanks Dave for confirming  what I wrote. If you mention Tony's Blackburn  make sure you put empress ballroom in the middle it confuses some of the readers on here .they might mistake it for Lenny Gambles empress ballroom

                                                LOL CHEERS MICK l

[Steve G]

Saturday nights were quiet, towards the latter days of Wigan. But, those last 2 years musically, in my opinion, was the pinnacle.  Searling was at the top his game, fantastic 60's played back to back with new releases. Not forgetting Gary Rushbrooke, he had some great tunes too 

 

Agreed, the music too good for the masses 

[Wiggyflat]

Someone who should get spoken to is John Vincent...just dug rhis flyer out...properly produced and glossy.Ahead of its time.

Edited November 1, 2014 by wiggyflat

[Chalky]

Which years were Ian Clarke & Ady Pountain DJing at Stafford?

From the beginning, 82 & 83.  I will check when they stopped. 

 

Dave Rimmer is currently doing a timeline on all the past allniters when they started n finished,most successful periods ect. I gave him some info on Tony,s Blackburn I'm sure Dave would be a barrel of information on your project After Wigan.

kind regards Mick L

 

Two eras if youlike for Tony's as well, The time when Guy ran it and then yourself Mick.

[spot]

Lets just pretend it died, the Golden age had passed, the scene had split into small factions & even Keb said that most of the stuff played at Stafford was sh*te, it sounds a bit Country a lot of it to me, I'm glad I worked away for 15 years, I've tried listen to 80's/early 90's cd's & I'm lucky if I like 1 in 50 tunes. I'm glad we returned but even now a lot of stuffs R&B/DooWop. So good look with completing your project, I couldn't do it.    

Spot.  

[jocko]

Lets just pretend it died, the Golden age had passed, the scene had split into small factions & even Keb said that most of the stuff played at Stafford was sh*te, it sounds a bit Country a lot of it to me, I'm glad I worked away for 15 years, I've tried listen to 80's/early 90's cd's & I'm lucky if I like 1 in 50 tunes. I'm glad we returned but even now a lot of stuffs R&B/DooWop. So good look with completing your project, I couldn't do it.    

Spot.  

 

You are listening to the wrong CD's then, or more likely getting them from people pretending they were there, that is just not a Wigan chosen millions phenomenon you know. Mostly people seem to listen to the pish that was being played in 95 and assume thats the story, I was well on my way by then due to the quality of the music, and the people to be honest, on the scene by then. 

 

Lots of pish was played, like in every era, and when they were pushing the boat as far as they were there the quality quotient is going to be a higher risk. But like many eras there were as many classics and more than duffers.  Go and listen to a Guy Hennigan podcast and tell me its country or R&B.

I love the fact everyone is quoting Keb now, as some harbinger of doom ,go over to FB and see what he is championing now, and you will see what a tit you are making of yourself. He says he hates soul and only likes white garage bands (slight paraphrasing) and problem with Stafford was too much chasing Black music. If thats your bag on you go, but don't try and discredit something else with that. Kebs a one off  and ironically is still chasing the dream, just a very different one. And Keb has always been a good marketer and controversial with it. So if you want to write off an era do a bit more research is my advice. 

 

Mick above highlights one issue with documenting the 80's, it was much more fragmented, and you had to really want it to get it, and just listing venues is going to miss out a whole big part of the 80's success. the attitude, the politics, the fuck it all attitude that matched the dark times for many, lots of people still don't get that. So to me just a historical run-down of the 80' will miss the whole essence of this. Dave Thorley is your man for this. 

 

I did an outline for Dave once of how I thought you should tell the story of the 80's, starting in Wigan Tiffanies October 1981 when most people were leaving for their 15 years of something or other excuse. I will ask if he is okay to share it with OP. I think its a difficult story to get write (sic), and if you get it wrong, there are a whole lot of characters out there no longer with us that will haunt your ass for eternity. 

[jocko]

…meanwhile Wigan's disciples of modern soul went in a very different direction….     

 

Not all of them. some would argue the more tasteful stayed within the fold till end of Stafford etc, the rest of old moaners followed Sam into (Heavy) Rock City, while proclaiming Northern Soul was dead and they would never have any more to do with that or those nasty people that still stayed up all night, rather than went to bed after a 1am soul night. 

 

Hindsight is a wonderfull thing, especially when its all documented! 

[Pete S]

I think there are more great discoveries found after Wigan than before or during.

And that's from a hardcore Wiganite.

[Steve G]

Not all of them. some would argue the more tasteful stayed within the fold till end of Stafford etc, the rest of old moaners followed Sam into (Heavy) Rock City, while proclaiming Northern Soul was dead and they would never have any more to do with that or those nasty people that still stayed up all night, rather than went to bed after a 1am soul night. 

 

Hindsight is a wonderfull thing, especially when its all documented! 

 

But you are missing the whole alldayer thing that was going down - Sheffield, Manchester, Snaith, plus niters at Clifton Hall, Cleethorpes, other place in Rotherham etc. Yes Soul nights for sure at places as diverse as Cockermouth and Shrewsbury too. Rock City was a little bit later?

 

Up all day (until 1 am), sleep all night 

Edited November 1, 2014 by Steve G

[Guest Byrney]

Ah.. The old I wasn't there so it was crap story

Lets just pretend it died, the Golden age had passed, the scene had split into small factions & even Keb said that most of the stuff played at Stafford was sh*te, it sounds a bit Country a lot of it to me, I'm glad I worked away for 15 years, I've tried listen to 80's/early 90's cd's & I'm lucky if I like 1 in 50 tunes. I'm glad we returned but even now a lot of stuffs R&B/DooWop. So good look with completing your project, I couldn't do it.    

Spot.  

[Chalky]

But you are missing the whole alldayer thing that was going down - Sheffield, Manchester, Snaith, plus niters at Clifton Hall, Cleethorpes, other place in Rotherham etc. Yes Soul nights for sure at places as diverse as Cockermouth and Shrewsbury too. Rock City was a little bit later?

 

Up all day (until 1 am), sleep all night 

 

Up all day sleep all night, light weights