Bobby Sheen Something New To Do

[sid jones]

HAVE A SOUTH AFRICAN ISSUE IF ANY BODY WANTS IT NEAR MINT

[Northern Soul Uk]

The one I bought today 

Is there still no solid solution to what is what on this, or are we settling for different pressing plants??

 

[Swifty]

After reading through this I'm still confused as to how to tell an original demo ?

 

 

Swifty

[Kegsy]

I found my copy in the basement of George's Song Shop in Johnstown PA in about 1986, on a trip with my mate Dave. It was in both our top 5s of that time (still one of my all-time favourite songs) and we obviously couldn't believe it when I pulled a copy out. He loved it just a bit more than me so I let him have it...then found another half an hour later. Very happy days.

Mine (scan attached - with 'slt lbl dmg') has the stars on the SNTD side, has different matrix numbers (WB-7662 QAL-0078-DJ 1B on SNTD, WB-7662 QAL-0077-DJ 1B on IMNBWYW and an edge I wouldn't characterise as either particularly sharp or blunt!

It MUST be a proper one, though, given where and how it was found.

Are we sure that SNTD isn't the proper A side anyway??

 

 

Mine is exactly the same as this, with 0077 & 0078 (SNTD) matrix

Cost me $2 about 15 years ago on the net from an ex radio DJ.

Cant see it being a boot given where I got it from.

Bit of a puzzler this one, maybe it was re-promoted by WB after it was a flop

first time round.

 

kegsy

[Kegsy]

Mine is exactly the same as this, with 0077 & 0078 (SNTD) matrix

Cost me $2 about 15 years ago on the net from an ex radio DJ.

Cant see it being a boot given where I got it from.

Bit of a puzzler this one, maybe it was re-promoted by WB after it was a flop

first time round.

 

kegsy

 

 

These images particularly the date stamped demo make things even worse.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bobby+sheen+something+new+to+do&newwindow=1&hl=en&qscrl=1&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=_aAIUvi6FLHZ0QXaoYCICQ&ved=0CFMQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=651

 

Note the wording of "promotional" "not for sale" differences.

 

In addition Manships book says counterfeit is exact copy of WB label but brown see through vinyl.

The picture in the book is of SNTD with stars on that side.

Kegsy

Edited August 12, 2013 by Kegsy

[Northern Soul Uk]

Well! f**k knows then.
The one I have just bought has stars on the SNTD and the matrix in WB7662 QAL 0077--DJ lA and it's not see through vinyl.
Where does that leave me then???

[Kegsy]

Easiest way is on the boot "Something new to do" has two stars on the label showing it is the A-side. On the original the two stars are on " I may not be what you want" as this is the proper A-side.

 

 

Are you sure about this and if so why ?

 

All the discographies I look at, Bobby Sheen and Warner bros seem to list SNTD as the A side.

Its a puzzler for sure, see my post with the images a couple of posts back.

 

Kegsy

Edited August 13, 2013 by Kegsy

[Barry]

Mine is exactly the same as this, with 0077 & 0078 (SNTD) matrix

Cost me $2 about 15 years ago on the net from an ex radio DJ.

Cant see it being a boot given where I got it from.

Bit of a puzzler this one, maybe it was re-promoted by WB after it was a flop

first time round.

 

kegsy

 

...and maybe the A sides were flipped, maybe the orig B picked up the airplay and was re-pressed as the A??

 

Which would explain the 'wandering stars'

Edited August 13, 2013 by Barry

[Chatty]

Which would explain the 'wandering stars'

 Hell fire, don't tell me Lee Marvin's has been bootlegged as well. Is there nothing sacred? 

 

 

I'll get "mi leather" coat.

Edited August 13, 2013 by chatty

[Hammersoul]

Are you sure about this and if so why ?

 

All the discographies I look at, Bobby Sheen and Warner bros seem to list SNTD as the A side.

Its a puzzler for sure, see my post with the images a couple of posts back.

 

Kegsy

 

 

I notice that on discogs,funny enough before i see this thread ,was checking mine cos i remember reading this thread 1st time but forgot like you do. So the Green Issues are all originals? I`m sure i read somewhere one is light Green the other Dark  . I bought mine back in early 90`s from a reputable dealer so sure mine is a real one.

[Chris L]

After reading through this I'm still confused as to how to tell an original demo ?

 

 

Swifty

 

 

Buy an issue  

[Pete S]

If you hold it to the light and can see light through it, it's a counterfeit, done at the same time using the same vinyl as John & The Weirdest.

[Simsy]

I've got an issue if anyone wants it. Manships latest price for an issue is £150

I'd be 50 quid cheaper than that, how do these people get away with it?

 

Look for ten pounds, you could be Peter Manship. I'm sure this action would show a significant percentage increase in annual record sales.

 

Here's a couple of words from Eamonn to get you started. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTnhoRrYQrs#at=14

[Pete S]

Look for ten pounds, you could be Peter Manship. I'm sure this action would show a significant percentage increase in annual record sales.

 

Here's a couple of words from Eamonn to get you started. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTnhoRrYQrs#at=14

 

Blimey a 9 year old post!!!

[Dave Pinch]

Blimey a 9 year old post!!!

thats what i thought pete..i started to read this thread not realising it was nine years old and saw that you posted that youd sell this 45 for 100 quid..wow that pete smith is expensive lol....then i realised it had been reactivated (not 100% sure why folks do that). nine years ago £100 was probably a fair price..today £50 should be nearer the mark imho

[Pete S]

thats what i thought pete..i started to read this thread not realising it was nine years old and saw that you posted that youd sell this 45 for 100 quid..wow that pete smith is expensive lol....then i realised it had been reactivated (not 100% sure why folks do that). nine years ago £100 was probably a fair price..today £50 should be nearer the mark imho

 

Yeah I think so, maybe £60 on issue, the issue was scarce then though.  But you know me, always expensive anyway 

[dthedrug]

 HI ALL There definitely good counterfeit of this classic, as my first copy of the song was one, I fooled me, my copy in my collection was $25 from a dealer in DETROIT  DAVE K

[Keithg]

Mines the same as Dan's and Adam's .......bought it from the USA and arrived in a proper WB Sleeve,two stars on the SNTD side ...with QAL-0078-DJ 1B Scratched into both run out grooves .....

[Swifty]

Mines the same as Dan's and Adam's .......bought it from the USA and arrived in a proper WB Sleeve,two stars on the SNTD side ...with QAL-0078-DJ 1B Scratched into both run out grooves .....

same as mine

 

Edit: Oh no it isn't , it has the 1B on SNTD and 1A on IMNBWYW side

Edited August 28, 2013 by SWIFTY

[Guest Awake 502]

Are you sure about this and if so why ?

 

All the discographies I look at, Bobby Sheen and Warner bros seem to list SNTD as the A side.

Its a puzzler for sure, see my post with the images a couple of posts back.

 

Kegsy

 

I found a 25 count box of the w/d with SNTD as the flip side at a one stop in Tampa in the 80's. Owner said he had them since release, never sold a copy. Lots of boxes of other stuff from early to mid 70's , the guy new his records... He sold me the Clay Browns too, wish I had held on to those now... sigh...

[Kegsy]

 

 

Ok fair enough but that does not prove that SNTD was not also promoted

as the A side either earlier or later, which would make both demos original copies.

I reckon that's the case and the only boots are the brown vinyl ones.

 

These images particularly the date stamped demo may support this.

https://www.google.co...iw=1366&bih=651

 

Sixth row down second image.

 

Why would anyone date stamp a pressing with the original release date ?

 

Kegsy

Edited August 28, 2013 by Kegsy

[Northern Soul Uk]

I got mine through and all looks OK to me, not trasnsparant or brown, stars on the SNTD side, but matrix on run out states WB7662 QAL-0078-DJ 1B, and IMNBWYW same but 1A.
Even more confusion then, as the stars are on the 'B' side according to the matrix???

HELP!!!!
LOL!

[Guest Awake 502]

Maybe it was re-promoted with a different A-side but the matrix numbers QAL0077 / QAL0078 would suggest that IMNBWYW was the original A-side

 

"Why would anyone date stamp a pressing with the original release date ?"

 

Do you remeber the John and the Wierdest bootlegs that were date stamped ?

[Kegsy]

I got mine through and all looks OK to me, not trasnsparant or brown, stars on the SNTD side, but matrix on run out states WB7662 QAL-0078-DJ 1B, and IMNBWYW same but 1A.

Even more confusion then, as the stars are on the 'B' side according to the matrix???

HELP!!!!

LOL!

 

 

I give up on this as of now.

its to much for a simple Yorkshire lad.

 

Kegsy

[Roburt]

its to much for a simple Yorkshire lad.

Kegsy

...........  .....  VERY SIMPLE YORKSHIRE LAD  !!!! 

Edited August 28, 2013 by Roburt

[Kjw]

Perhaps they originally pressed up the promos with I May Not Be as the plug side and then decided to go with Something New as the strong side and pressed it up again (possibly after feedback from people who got the first promos)

 

Billy Proctor's 45 on Epic came out on two promos - one with Chop Down That Oak Tree on both sides and then another with Keeping Up With The Joneses on both sides followed by the issue with both tracks

[Garethx]

^

Indeed. The "Chop Down That Old Oak Tree" promo has something along the lines of "rush re-service" on it if memory serves. It was quite common practice for record companies to flip the 'Plug Side' after initial radio feedback.

 

Bottom line on all this is that the see-through dark brown plastic copy of Bobby Sheen is an 80s or 90s boot. Styrene copies should all be originals.

[Roburt]

If the label got early feedback from some influential radio DJ's that the 'other side' was the one they were playing, then they would have quickly flipped the 45 and sent out copies with the original B side marked up as the plug side.

[Britishbarry]

Yes, on mine "Something..." is QAL-0078-DJ 1B and "I May..." is QAL-0077-DJ 1A.

And just to confuse things even further it has the stars on "Something..." but has a sharp edge - and looks and feels as though it was pressed in 1972.

My copy is the same, bought as an original from what i thought was a reliable source.

[Kev John]

If JM say's the see through 1s are boots when where they pressed ? who did them ? as he only goes by the difference in VINYLS 

 

As i started another thread a few day's ago & i stated that i doubted that the see through Vinyl 1s were boots because of there quality

 

Also just looked at the labels would a bootlegger put the LOGO on at 12 o'clock on 1 side and when you flip it over Logo is at 6 o'clock ?

 

atb Kev

Edited August 28, 2013 by DjAKA

[Mike Lofthouse]

 

 

I found a 25 count box of the w/d with SNTD as the flip side at a one stop in Tampa in the 80's. Owner said he had them since release, never sold a copy. Lots of boxes of other stuff from early to mid 70's , the guy new his records... He sold me the Clay Browns too, wish I had held on to those now... sigh...

Why would his stock of a new release be white label demos?

[Garethx]

A one-stop shop would quite easily have warehouse stock of demos to sell cheap or in bulk, bought any time after the record was released.

 

A note on the pressing details of this record. Warner Brothers at the time had their releases largely pressed at Columbia factories. The various numbers quoted here, from 1A up to 1E refer to different lacquers. When the record was mastered a number of lacquers were cut and sent to the various plants. Each plant would have received a different lacquer with a unique code, so  the A and B numbers do not refer to whether the respective side was the plug side or the flip, just to which plant it was to be pressed at. If a lacquer had to be replaced (either for a fault or for stamper wear) it would then become 2A, [or 2B etc.] then 3A etc. 

 

The typesetting for this release was done at Columbia Santa Monica in California, which did the typesetting for Warners Reprise and then sent artwork/films to the other plants. The Columbia plants (Pittman New Jersey, Terra Haute Indiana and Santa Monica California) pressed both styrene and vinyl and it was quite common for the promo to be on vinyl and the issue to be cheaper styrene as is the case with the Bobby Sheen record.

 

Columbia didn't use the brown, see through plastic which the bootlegs are supposedly made of in 1972. This material is not generally seen until the mid to late 80s, when the number of vinyl pressing plants in the US had decreased from dozens to just a handful of functioning factories and this became the default material for many vinyl 45s. 

 

If anyone has a bootleg of this it would be really helpful if they could photograph the dead wax and post it up here. I'd be interested to see if these have the stamped matrix which a genuine Columbia-pressed record should have, or whether it's scratched in.

[Kegsy]

 

 

 

 

Why would his stock of a new release be white label demos?

 

Maybe, as has been said, the initial (local ?)  DJs who received it said the flip was the better record.

Warners then had it re-done and junked the rest of the first run.

Why would Warners have more demos pressed than they were going to send out ?.

Surely they would have sent them all out, unless they distributed locally first.

Kegsy

Edited August 29, 2013 by Kegsy

[Kegsy]

A one-stop shop would quite easily have warehouse stock of demos to sell cheap or in bulk, bought any time after the record was released.

 

A note on the pressing details of this record. Warner Brothers at the time had their releases largely pressed at Columbia factories. The various numbers quoted here, from 1A up to 1E refer to different lacquers. When the record was mastered a number of lacquers were cut and sent to the various plants. Each plant would have received a different lacquer with a unique code, so  the A and B numbers do not refer to whether the respective side was the plug side or the flip, just to which plant it was to be pressed at. If a lacquer had to be replaced (either for a fault or for stamper wear) it would then become 2A, [or 2B etc.] then 3A etc. 

 

The typesetting for this release was done at Columbia Santa Monica in California, which did the typesetting for Warners Reprise and then sent artwork/films to the other plants. The Columbia plants (Pittman New Jersey, Terra Haute Indiana and Santa Monica California) pressed both styrene and vinyl and it was quite common for the promo to be on vinyl and the issue to be cheaper styrene as is the case with the Bobby Sheen record.

 

Columbia didn't use the brown, see through plastic which the bootlegs are supposedly made of in 1972. This material is not generally seen until the mid to late 80s, when the number of vinyl pressing plants in the US had decreased from dozens to just a handful of functioning factories and this became the default material for many vinyl 45s. 

 

If anyone has a bootleg of this it would be really helpful if they could photograph the dead wax and post it up here. I'd be interested to see if these have the stamped matrix which a genuine Columbia-pressed record should have, or whether it's scratched in.

 

That's made all the theories on here well lacquered !!!.

 

Kegsy

[Guest soulie75]

Buy an issue and you'll have none of the headache......

WOOF!

well said that man

[Kegsy]

A one-stop shop would quite easily have warehouse stock of demos to sell cheap or in bulk, bought any time after the record was released.

 

A note on the pressing details of this record. Warner Brothers at the time had their releases largely pressed at Columbia factories. The various numbers quoted here, from 1A up to 1E refer to different lacquers. When the record was mastered a number of lacquers were cut and sent to the various plants. Each plant would have received a different lacquer with a unique code, so  the A and B numbers do not refer to whether the respective side was the plug side or the flip, just to which plant it was to be pressed at. If a lacquer had to be replaced (either for a fault or for stamper wear) it would then become 2A, [or 2B etc.] then 3A etc. 

 

The typesetting for this release was done at Columbia Santa Monica in California, which did the typesetting for Warners Reprise and then sent artwork/films to the other plants. The Columbia plants (Pittman New Jersey, Terra Haute Indiana and Santa Monica California) pressed both styrene and vinyl and it was quite common for the promo to be on vinyl and the issue to be cheaper styrene as is the case with the Bobby Sheen record.

 

Columbia didn't use the brown, see through plastic which the bootlegs are supposedly made of in 1972. This material is not generally seen until the mid to late 80s, when the number of vinyl pressing plants in the US had decreased from dozens to just a handful of functioning factories and this became the default material for many vinyl 45s. 

 

If anyone has a bootleg of this it would be really helpful if they could photograph the dead wax and post it up here. I'd be interested to see if these have the stamped matrix which a genuine Columbia-pressed record should have, or whether it's scratched in.

 

 

Just checked a Bobby Sheen Payback demo it has 1A in the dead wax on both sides despite having two different tracks.

 

The Tymes The love that your looking for Columbia Demo 2 different copies.

 

One is same track both sides and plain white labels.

One has two different tracks and a blue A on Love that you're looking for side.

Both records have 1C in the dead wax on both sides.

So the lacquer argument checks out as far as I can see.

 

kegsy

Edited August 29, 2013 by Kegsy

[Kegsy]

Additional info.

 

Major Lance The Monkey Time issue on Okeh.

I have 3 copies ALL have different dead wax markings as follows

1AD and 1AE

1L and 1AA

1J and 1J

 

 

I reckon its pretty safe to say that the 1A/1B markings on something new to do, have sweet FA to

do with A or B side.

 

Kegsy

Edited August 29, 2013 by Kegsy

[Kev John]

A one-stop shop would quite easily have warehouse stock of demos to sell cheap or in bulk, bought any time after the record was released.

 

A note on the pressing details of this record. Warner Brothers at the time had their releases largely pressed at Columbia factories. The various numbers quoted here, from 1A up to 1E refer to different lacquers. When the record was mastered a number of lacquers were cut and sent to the various plants. Each plant would have received a different lacquer with a unique code, so  the A and B numbers do not refer to whether the respective side was the plug side or the flip, just to which plant it was to be pressed at. If a lacquer had to be replaced (either for a fault or for stamper wear) it would then become 2A, [or 2B etc.] then 3A etc. 

 

The typesetting for this release was done at Columbia Santa Monica in California, which did the typesetting for Warners Reprise and then sent artwork/films to the other plants. The Columbia plants (Pittman New Jersey, Terra Haute Indiana and Santa Monica California) pressed both styrene and vinyl and it was quite common for the promo to be on vinyl and the issue to be cheaper styrene as is the case with the Bobby Sheen record.

 

Columbia didn't use the brown, see through plastic which the bootlegs are supposedly made of in 1972. This material is not generally seen until the mid to late 80s, when the number of vinyl pressing plants in the US had decreased from dozens to just a handful of functioning factories and this became the default material for many vinyl 45s. 

 

If anyone has a bootleg of this it would be really helpful if they could photograph the dead wax and post it up here. I'd be interested to see if these have the stamped matrix which a genuine Columbia-pressed record should have, or whether it's scratched in.

Hi Garethx

 

I've got 1 of the black Vinyl 1s but when you face it to the light you can see throught it

 

There are no stamped in matrix marks in the deadwax it is all etched in 

 

sorry i can't post up scans of run out marks 

 

I've got a original Linda Jones IJCLML on WB  Vinyl issue no stamps in run out either

 

atb Kev 

[Guest Paul]

Suffixes such as 1A and 1B on record matrix numbers were often references to different lacquer cuts (first, second, etc) or references to the plant where the lacquer was being sent for processing and / or pressing. It could be a consecutive reference (alpha or numeric) or just a code used to identify a plant. 

 

Sometimes the final stampers were also indentified in the deadwax area so a second set of stampers might have a different marking to the first, for example, but in most cases there might not be any noticeable difference because identification numbers would have be written on the cardboard sleeves which housed the stampers at the factory. And because the worn stampers look worn and would be scrapped they couldn't be confused with new replacement stampers so a lot of plants didn't bother to identify them anyway.

 

Records were pressed in large quantities in those days, and at various plants, so many sets of stampers were used but quite often with no different identifications in the deadwax area - EMI UK being a notable exception with its stamper codes such as G, R, A etc.

 

Each company and each engineer and each plant had different systems which could often changed so consistent systems shouldn't always be expected and assumptions can often be wrong.

 

With the Bobby Sheen 45 I reckon it was obviously pressed at different plants and they decided to flip it over at some stage and re-serviced some stations with new copies.

 

People sometimes look for differences which aren't always significant.

 

I think the truth is that many collectors over the years have "decided" that particular records are first pressings or second pressings or reissues or even bootlegs and in many cases they are nothing more than assumptions. I've done it myself and later realised that I couldn't really be sure.

Paul
 

[sepia]

we could say this is the same as,,,, patti & the emblems / im gonna love you a long long time / kapp  w/d

 

pink A on different  sides,as with STARS on this.

[Mike Lofthouse]

 

I think the truth is that many collectors over the years have "decided" that particular records are first pressings or second pressings or reissues or even bootlegs and in many cases they are nothing more than assumptions. I've done it myself and later realised that I couldn't really be sure.

Paul

 

Think you have nailed it Paul

[Tony Treby]

Having not read all of the above...was the issue ever booted?

[Winsford Soul]

1 hour ago, Tony Treby said:

Having not read all of the above...was the issue ever booted?

Never booted on the issue. Just the white demo.

Steve 

[Tony Treby]

1 hour ago, Winsford Soul said:

Never booted on the issue. Just the white demo.

Steve 

Many thanks 

[Benji]

On 17.8.2017 at 17:54, Tony Treby said:

Having not read all of the above...was the issue ever booted?

And there is also a genuine jamaican green issue.

[Mal C]

On 20/08/2017 at 00:18, Benji said:

And there is also a genuine jamaican green issue.

Wow, would love to see that one.... superb track, in my personal top 25, cause I could not do it in any less :-)

[Benji]

I have one, however this scan is nicked from 45cat.com:

 

[Mal C]

Them Dynamic sound chaps again :-)