Original Vinyl Or Nothing

[Guest Simon]

The 'play originals only' point can be totally pulled apart, for one the artist isn't getting any moneys from people playing a 40 year old record, however if someone was playing a newly issued cd the artist may get some money from this.

I agree that boots are a no no as they are illegal however a legitimate re-issue again may have monies going to the artist.

So i have come to the conclusion that to benefit the artists that we all purport to admire the right thing really would be to play a format that they would benefit from, yes? no?

Simon

[Guest Dan]

If the incentive to pay big money for new records was taken away, that would be it for new discoveries. If the incentive had been taken away 20 years ago, how many records would never have been discovered?

can't agree with that, mik.i've spent my entire collecting life buying records blind, half-heard off tapes, on recommendations from people who i trust, on the basis of the writing/producing credits etc etc etc. nowt to do with the cost or even value, for me anyway.

Sure, a big DJ with a big collection might play 10 records that you can get on re-issues and wouldn't sound any different played off them, but it'll be the new tracks he / she plays that aren't re-issued that complete a good set, and that are essential for a good set.

If you're asking people to travel, what are you offering them? Scenes like this require people to travel and people will only travel for something that's worth travelling for. A mug playing CDs, or even worse: fake originals, is not IMO. Not even worth paying for.

the thing is, this whole 'i travel to hear something fresh' argument is self-defeating IMO.

1) first off, the days of masses of people travelling all over the country are gone and they're not coming back.

2) secondly, the only things actually worth travelling to hear are the genuine one-offs that aren't available on tape, on the net or on boot/reissue. otherwise, if it's just about hearing sounds you can hear anything you like at home.

3) thirdly, if you take the magnetics on ra sel (i hate the thing, personally, by the way . not in the same league as the sable stuff), everyone knows it. it's not 'fresh'. it's a hackneyed, played out oldie (to my ears). thus - my argument is - let anyone play it on any format and THAT is what will really drive the name djs to find new sounds.

there's no point in big-name DJ X playing i have a girl if local DJ Y has just played it off a pressing, is there? so he'll have to find more stuff to play... like the cheap, underplayed oldies. thoughts?

[Guest Dan]

strange argument, anyone who wants to hear either can get them on CD and listen to them all day. If you want to dance to them, go and support one of the many clubs / DJs who will play them on original. The same people who will be finding the next Lou Pride or Morris Chesnut.

as i've said, though, mik, it's the making available of these records to every tom, dick and harry dj out there that will actually bring about this discovering of loads of new tunes by djs. currently, lots of big names relying on same old same old if playlists are anything to go by (not all, obviously).

[pow wow mik]

as i've said, though, mik, it's the making available of these records to every tom, dick and harry dj out there that will actually bring about this discovering of loads of new tunes by djs. currently, lots of big names relying on same old same old if playlists are anything to go by (not all, obviously).

what so you're saying that bootlegs help because they kill tracks and force the real collectors to play new stuff? I'd agree with that, but I think it's more my argument!

The bottom line is, why are there bootlegs?, why is there a scene? not because of people playing their favourite classics - that's for the rest of the world, but because of a hunger and demand for hearing interesting, different and new records.

So many aspects of DJing are only possible if you have a varied collection that includes classics, unknowns, less knowns etc.

It's not about whether the playing of one bootleg ruins a night, of course it doesn't.

It's just easier to keep it black and white - original vinyl only. Keep the quality and excitement as high as possible, surely that is the best way for any scene to survive?

The bottom bottom line is that we all acknowledge who the top DJs are don't we? do any of them play boots & re-issues? would they need to? I don't think you need to say any more than that. All this 'give the music to the people' bollocks is bollocks, if the 'people' want the music they can buy loads of CDs, if they want to dance, go to a proper do that keeps the traditions going and support the scene, or the part of the scene that keeps it interesting.

Edited August 10, 2006 by mik parry

[Bazza]

The 'play originals only' point can be totally pulled apart, for one the artist isn't getting any moneys from people playing a 40 year old record, however if someone was playing a newly issued cd the artist may get some money from this.

I agree that boots are a no no as they are illegal however a legitimate re-issue again may have monies going to the artist.

So i have come to the conclusion that to benefit the artists that we all purport to admire the right thing really would be to play a format that they would benefit from, yes? no?

Simon

A definate yes..to little thought is given to the original artist

Bazza

[mischief]

someone please reply as im trying to work out what tunes to play saturday night. lol

Bearsy.. play what you feel happy with.. thats all that counts at the end of the day..

[pow wow mik]

A definate yes..to little thought is given to the original artist

Bazza

surely the original artist earns money of 1000s of soul fans buying CDs, not off DJs, whatever format they buy? And if there really are so many DJs that a legit re-issue on vinyl would earn them money, then there needs to be a cull!

[Guest Dan]

what so you're saying that bootlegs help because they kill tracks and force the real collectors to play new stuff? I'd agree with that, but I think it's more my argument!

The bottom line is, why are there bootlegs?, why is there a scene? not because of people playing their favourite classics - that's for the rest of the world, but because of a hunger and demand for hearing interesting, different and new records.

So many aspects of DJing are only possible if you have a varied collection that includes classics, unknowns, less knowns etc.

It's not about whether the playing of one bootleg ruins a night, of course it doesn't.

It's just easier to keep it black and white - original vinyl only. Keep the quality and excitement as high as possible, surely that is the best way for any scene to survive?

no, i hate bootlegs, always have. don't own any (or any legal reissues for that matter, as far as i know).

i'm sorry but i don't understand the rest of that first paragraph, though. you want djs to play new stuff and you accept that making the sounds more widely available is likely to force that, but you think making the sounds more widely available is a bad thing?

as for the rest of it, mik, all i'm saying is that if i'm out and about (and i don't go out very often to be fair) i really don't care what format the djs are using as long as they're playing records i want to hear. as it happens, these wouldn't be the big oldies anyway, so i guess i'd be bound to hear stuff played on original vinyl. but would i care? would i actually go up to the decks and check

[Guest Bearsy]

Bearsy.. play what you feel happy with.. thats all that counts at the end of the day..

boots boots and more boots,

and if i get a big cheer i might play even more boots,

im now taking bookings for future events so if you promoters want a boots and all night pm me for availability but be quick.

only joking

i do actually own a quite few originals,

and i can honeastly say im always searching for cheap forgoten tunes as well as the holy grails within my pocket money budget (what the wife gives me of course)

point is ive got Ruby Andrews - just loving you, on zodiac and a boot, i carry both in my case and i dont want to ruin my mint zodiac version, no can tell the difference so does it matter which one i play ?

[Dave]

point is ive got Ruby Andrews - just loving you, on zodiac and a boot, i carry both in my case and i dont want to ruin my mint zodiac version, no can tell the difference so does it matter which one i play ?

The real point is that most who are arguing for OV wouldn't want to hear Ruby Andrews anyway. Same is true of the few hundred people who travel to most allnighters.

On the other hand, those that do want to hear it for the millionth time are amongst the thousands of nostalgia fans who don't give a shit about the format.

Who is right and who is wrong?

[Guest Simon]

The real point is that most who are arguing for OV wouldn't want to hear Ruby Andrews anyway. Same is true of the few hundred people who travel to most allnighters.

On the other hand, those that do want to hear it for the millionth time are amongst the thousands of nostalgia fans who don't give a shit about the format.

Spot on! this is where this OV only policy falls down because anyone who has a £100 can buy a copy of this today!

Simon

[Guest Bearsy]

The real point is that most who are arguing for OV wouldn't want to hear Ruby Andrews anyway. Same is true of the few hundred people who travel to most allnighters.

On the other hand, those that do want to hear it for the millionth time are amongst the thousands of nostalgia fans who don't give a shit about the format.

Who is right and who is wrong?

the record was an example not a debate on wether you like it or not and as you speak for everyone can you answer for them all then (not the nostalgia ones of course as they dont count in your eyes) some say if its in your box its ok to play a lesser version, that was what i was getting at,

a reply without your biased views would be nice,

[Guest Bearsy]

Spot on! this is where this OV only policy falls down because anyone who has a £100 can buy a copy of this today!

Simon

i wish i had all your `£100s` at my disposal as its not the only tune on original in the northern scene is it, so what you are saying is if it aint mega expensive it is overplayed and shite, shame on you

Edited August 10, 2006 by Bearsy

[Guest hammy]

er, not be a DJ? It's not like there's a shortage. People will always collect records because they love the music, why not let them be the DJs, they have the most knowledge and are in the best position to find new tracks.

Without that culture, there wouldn't be any fucking re-issues, doesn't it follow then that that culture should be respected so that it continues. If the incentive to pay big money for new records was taken away, that would be it for new discoveries. If the incentive had been taken away 20 years ago, how many records would never have been discovered?

The point that gets missed a lot is that you can only have the knowledge to do a good, interesting set if you're an experienced collector.

So I guess a top DJ could do a good set off CDs, but that's not what we're talking baout is it. Even that would be too open to cheating!

Sure, a big DJ with a big collection might play 10 records that you can get on re-issues and wouldn't sound any different played off them, but it'll be the new tracks he / she plays that aren't re-issued that complete a good set, and that are essential for a good set.

DJing needs to be exciting and interesting. How exciting and interesting, and progressive will it be if you're playing tracks that get played everywhere and that everyone has at home?

re-ssues etc fine for back ground music in pubs or parties. But If you're asking people to travel, what are you offering them? Scenes like this require people to travel and people will only travel for something that's worth travelling for. A mug playing CDs, or even worse: fake originals, is not IMO. Not even worth paying for.

Sense at last !!!!!

Hammy

[Guest Andy BB]

Good point Bearsy.

I've got a couple of tunes where the boot sounds better than the original so I keep them both in my box - if I play the lookalike I'll put the other one next to the deck to allay the fears of peeping peeps.

I'd never just take the boot out with me though.

That seems fair enough to me...

Or is it?

[SteveM]

the record was an example not a debate on wether you like it or not and as you speak for everyone can you answer for them all then (not the nostalgia ones of course as they dont count in your eyes) some say if its in your box its ok to play a lesser version, that was what i was getting at,

a reply without your biased views would be nice,

Think Dave was using RA as an example, because it was mentioned. ie not commenting on the quality, simply on the fact that it was played to death and the people arguing for OV , generally, would not travel to venues to hear it. Generally, being an important point.

Any view on here is likely to be biased Bearsy. It wouldn't be much of a forum if we all agreed.

[Guest]

The 'play originals only' point can be totally pulled apart, for one the artist isn't getting any moneys from people playing a 40 year old record, however if someone was playing a newly issued cd the artist may get some money from this.

I agree that boots are a no no as they are illegal however a legitimate re-issue again may have monies going to the artist.

So i have come to the conclusion that to benefit the artists that we all purport to admire the right thing really would be to play a format that they would benefit from, yes? no?

Simon

YES

[Guest]

point is ive got Ruby Andrews - just loving you, on zodiac and a boot, i carry both in my case and i dont want to ruin my mint zodiac version, no can tell the difference so does it matter which one i play ?

HOW PRETENTIOUS AND DIS-HONEST IS THAT, IF YOU PLAY A BOOT FOR WHATEVER REASON AT LEAST HAVE THE BALLS TO ADMIT IT AND NOT TRY AND HIDE BEHIND THE ORIGINAL!!! my hearts really breaking now, people seem soooooo compulsively programmed into originals or nowt that i feel the music is lost to the label, sorry, meant ego, not label

[steve z]

sometimes i think we all take this too seriously so a bit of fun can only be good and keep things reel .

Hi again A REEL is on a ROD and not as in SHARD he's REAL.......gonna stop the spelling /Typographical correcting now ATB STve

[Guest Bearsy]

Think Dave was using RA as an example, because it was mentioned. ie not commenting on the quality, simply on the fact that it was played to death and the people arguing for OV , generally, would not travel to venues to hear it. Generally, being an important point.

Any view on here is likely to be biased Bearsy. It wouldn't be much of a forum if we all agreed.

i understand and agree what your saying Steve, but what Dave was saying was that a £100 tune wether it was ruby or any other artist its still `only` a £100 tune and anyone can buy them and thats why only a few hundred are better in taste because they by his admission say these priced tunes are well and truly overplayed and only lesser soulies with no taste arent good enough to give a damn, how much does a record have to cost before its not an overplayed oldie for the nostalgic thousands. i think thats what im getting at

[SteveM]

i understand and agree what your saying Steve, but what Dave was saying was that a £100 tune wether it was ruby or any other artist its still `only` a £100 tune and anyone can buy them and thats why only a few hundred are better in taste because they by his admission say these priced tunes are well and truly overplayed and only lesser soulies with no taste arent good enough to give a damn, how much does a record have to cost before its not an overplayed oldie for the nostalgic thousands. i think thats what im getting at

Think that Simon posted about that, not Dave.

[Guest Simon]

i wish i had all your `£100s` at my disposal as its not the only tune on original in the northern scene is it, so what you are saying is if it aint mega expensive it is overplayed and shite, shame on you

Sorry, i wasn't meaning to come across like that, £100 is a lot to me also, the point i was trying to make is where's the skill in paying £100 for a record that is so easily available & so readilly played.

But if you're talking about someone playing from originals only & they've put the time & effort in to sound original & fresh then that's great but too many people who are playing from originals only nowadays are just playing the same old records, great they're all originals but it's fairly boring & unimaginative.

When it's done well by the likes of say 'Soul In The City', '100 club' etc. then i'm all for originals only but when it's not i just don't see any worth in it & it comes across as originals only for originals only sake.

Simon

[Guest Bearsy]

HOW PRETENTIOUS AND DIS-HONEST IS THAT, IF YOU PLAY A BOOT FOR WHATEVER REASON AT LEAST HAVE THE BALLS TO ADMIT IT AND NOT TRY AND HIDE BEHIND THE ORIGINAL!!! my hearts really breaking now, people seem soooooo compulsively programmed into originals or nowt that i feel the music is lost to the label, sorry, meant ego, not label

totally agree and thats why im asking the original brigade as a couple of big names have done similar but will they get slated as they have a massive reputation.

you probably wasnt have a dig at me but my ego is bigger than my bank balance and i can tell you i aint got much of an ego thats why when i do get a bit of spare cash and invest in an original im trying to protect my investment thats all.

[Guest NASHEE]

surely the original artist earns money of 1000s of soul fans buying CDs, not off DJs, whatever format they buy? And if there really are so many DJs that a legit re-issue on vinyl would earn them money, then there needs to be a cull!

Cull.......Jeez Mik,I'm gonna start wearing body armour....Just in case players of country & clip clop get it first ...ha ha ha

[Guest Bearsy]

Sorry, i wasn't meaning to come across like that, £100 is a lot to me also, the point i was trying to make is where's the skill in paying £100 for a record that is so easily available & so readilly played.

But if you're talking about someone playing from originals only & they've put the time & effort in to sound original & fresh then that's great but too many people who are playing from originals only nowadays are just playing the same old records, great they're all originals but it's fairly boring & unimaginative.

When it's done well by the likes of say 'Soul In The City', '100 club' etc. then i'm all for originals only but when it's not i just don't see any worth in it & it comes across as originals only for originals only sake.

Simon

fair shout Simon and do agree to some extent but dont we all have tunes some think are overplayed and dont we all wish we had the tunes no one else has got, we cant have it all and we aint all got the same tastes either but we all have one thing in common, the best music in the best format. original vinyl.

[pow wow mik]

Sorry, i wasn't meaning to come across like that, £100 is a lot to me also, the point i was trying to make is where's the skill in paying £100 for a record that is so easily available & so readilly played.

But if you're talking about someone playing from originals only & they've put the time & effort in to sound original & fresh then that's great but too many people who are playing from originals only nowadays are just playing the same old records, great they're all originals but it's fairly boring & unimaginative.

When it's done well by the likes of say 'Soul In The City', '100 club' etc. then i'm all for originals only but when it's not i just don't see any worth in it & it comes across as originals only for originals only sake.

Simon

Bad, boring Djs is another matter alltogether. A DJ can be bad if they Ebay the top 500 on original with their lottery winnings or if they have 100s of rare originals that no one wants to hear. That's what makes it so good: you CANT just sit at home and buy a good DJ set. Likewise, you can't go to a record shop and buy a good DJ set on re-issues.

Of course having originals isn't the ONLY aspect to being a DJ, it's one of them and it doesn't make a DJ. Tis essential though.

[Guest]

hey up Bazza

bye the way ..I first started my soul days at the Brit and palais and another little place in Mapperley,a working mens club ..no idea what it was called,

was it gedling miners welfare on mapperley top , used to go on sunday nights.

[Guest Phil Richards]

Try again with this one..51 years old been around a bit.I admit to being a bit "old school" I love the northern classics, my alltime fave is " Magnetics-I Have A Girl " I have been Back on the scene about 5 year, in that time i have only heard this tune played 2 or 3 times, now we all know owning that bit of 39 year old vinyl would be fantastic.no argument

I would have a big stupid grin on my face if local'ish DJ's played it,but ofcourse they dont reasons are as you lot know

1 its very rare and expensive on the original label "Ra Sel - £2000"

2 If they had it, would they play it in a working mens club with the floor heaving, even with cusioned decks, I remember once when a member of the bar staff leaned accross to the DJ, cought the pickup arm on his shirt sleave ,orrible noise you get the idea..I would not dare play one of my treasured tunes and would not really expect you too

So is this a reason to allow CD's or reissues at venues I think it is

I am not trying to start a slanging match about vinyl V CD...I love the music and just want to here these rare great old tunes

if it came down to original vinyl and never here the tunes or reissue or cd and hear the tunes, I want to here the tunes

Regards..Bazza

I play THE MAGNETICS / I HAVE A GRIL at STUDIO 1 its just a fri night soul night

[Dave]

the record was an example not a debate on wether you like it or not and as you speak for everyone can you answer for them all then (not the nostalgia ones of course as they dont count in your eyes) some say if its in your box its ok to play a lesser version, that was what i was getting at,

a reply without your biased views would be nice,

Biased? How is my view any more biased than others?

I know the record was an example... and I used it as such. I understood what you were getting at... pity you didn't reciprocate!

And show me where I said the nostalgia crowd don't count, clown! I made the point that they outbumber the "something different" element!

I can see I should have drawn a fucking diagram!

[Dave]

i understand and agree what your saying Steve, but what Dave was saying was that a £100 tune wether it was ruby or any other artist its still `only` a £100 tune and anyone can buy them and thats why only a few hundred are better in taste because they by his admission say these priced tunes are well and truly overplayed and only lesser soulies with no taste arent good enough to give a damn, how much does a record have to cost before its not an overplayed oldie for the nostalgic thousands. i think thats what im getting at

WTF?

This is getting a bit scary... where did I mention values?

[Guest Bearsy]

WTF?

This is getting a bit scary... where did I mention values?

Sorry Dave on this one i got the wrong name i ment simon , i put my hand up it was a mistake as someone else pointed out for me,

didnt mean to offend you either on the other bit i must be reading it different to how your explaining so i will have another read and see if i can get your unbiased point without the need of a diagram,

just read it again and to be fair i now see what you was saying well i think i do anyway, point taken and any offence not intended, glad i didnt need a diagram as i cant read them either.

[Bazza]

"was it gedling miners welfare on mapperley top , used to go on sunday nights."

Little brother ...I honestly just can't remember,one thing I remember there was a path from nearby the club up to my old school " Elliott Durham "

if there was lad dancing his socks off from opening till closing..that would have been me one of my faves then was "Bill Cosby - Little Old Man" I thought it was brill

Bazza

Edited August 10, 2006 by bazza

[Dave]

Sorry Dave on this one i got the wrong name i ment simon , i put my hand up it was a mistake as someone else pointed out for me,

didnt mean to offend you either on the other bit i must be reading it different to how your explaining so i will have another read and see if i can get your unbiased point without the need of a diagram,

just read it again and to be fair i now see what you was saying well i think i do anyway, point taken and any offence not intended, glad i didnt need a diagram as i cant read them either.

That's that cleared up then

No probs mate

[Dave Rimmer]

I play THE MAGNETICS / I HAVE A GRIL at STUDIO 1 its just a fri night soul night

Ah Yes, but what do The Magnetics cook on their "GRIL", Sausages

Anyway, I tried the tactic of playing the Magnetics to entice people through the door way back in post # 8

[Mak]

i'll have a big mac then

AYE WE'LL HAVE LESS OF THAT :angry:

[Mak]

This is a great topic , personally I love to see a dj playing originals and I love to hear the rarer sounds (e.g Rob Marriott at The Attic) and to be able to see them on the decks is a bonus .

just one question do acetates fit into this subject

[Cunnie]

Wasn't going to get involved in this topic as it's sure to be raised again & again but i'm here now so let me throw this little scenario into the pot.

About 18 months ago i played a track off "The Official Steppers" CD (Step It Up by Marvin Junior Jr). At the time it was only available from the Official Steppers website in Chicago.

Our guest on the same night at our Modernism night is a big name both on the Northern & Modern scenes so when he asked me if i could burn him a copy onto CD for him to copy onto vinyl i felt a bit chuffed at the time & even joked with him that i would if he burnt me a copy of Joseph Webster off so i could do the same.

A couple of months went by & i went to a night where the same DJ was playing in both the Northern & Modern room & guess what?

He played the track off a vinyl copy (probably a vinyl carvers job) in both rooms.

Point is the DJ in question would never play a boot or a re-issue & at least the artist got a % of the money i paid for my CD copy but they got jack shit for his dodgy vinyl copy.

Must point out that i didn't copy it for him BTW.

Edited August 10, 2006 by CUNNIE

[sepia]

HERES A THOUGHT.IN THE MID 80S TO MID 90S.THE SCENE NUMBERS WERE DOWN & THERE WASNT AS MANY PUNTERS BUYING RECORDS.THERE WASNT A LOT OF DJS ON THE GO EITHER.NOW EVERY1 WANTS TO DJ OR RUN A SOUL NITE.SO MORE DEMAND ON OLDIES,NEWIES & RARE 45S,PUSHING THE PRICE UP WAY OUT OF REACH FOR MOST.DOSNT MAKE COLLECTORS/DJS SNOBS CAUSE THEY HAVE TO PAY MORE FOR ORIGINAL & RARE RECORDS.

THE POINT IM TRYING TO MAKE IS.THE PRICE OF 45S IN THE MID 80/90S WASNT OUT OF ANY1S REACH.THERE ONLY SEEMED TO BE A HANDFULL OF 45S THAT WERE OVER SAY £300.YOU COULD GET ANY RECORD THAT WAS GETTING SPINS AT THE TIME FOR £100 OR LESS.LOOK BACK AT GOLDMINES OLD LISTS.RECORDS THAT ARE £200/300 TODAY WERE UNDER £100 THEN.£100 RECORDS TODAY WERE £10/15 THEN.HIS USED BUT NOT ABUSED PAGE WAS AMAZING FOR BARGAINS. MOST OF THERE 70S WERE £15 OR LESS.APART FROM THE ODD FEW THAT WERE BIG IN NORTERN ROOMS.

WHEN I WENT TO SHOTTS.MOST RECORDS WERE £10/15,CURRENT SPINS WERE

£30/100 & THE RARER ONES WERE £200/300 SAME AT KEELE.TAKE IT STAFFORD, & OTHER VENUES WERE THE SAME.

SO WHAT IM SAYING IS.IT WAS EASY TO COLLECT & PLAY ORIGINALS BACK THEN.PLUS IT WAS A NEWIES SCENE WITHOUT A LOT OF OLDIES.SO THE NEWIES & SEMI-KNOWNS WERENT TO DEAR(cause they hadnt gone big).YOU WASNT RIDICULED FOR HAVING OR PLAYING ORIGINALS THEN, LIKE WE ARE THE NOO.

I ADMIT I CANT AFFORD TO BUY THE RARE & OVER PRICED RECORDS,BUT I WOULD NEVER SLATE ANY1 WHO DOES.BUT IT DOES GIVE ME THE CHANCE TO BUY & PLAY ORIGINAL UNKNOWN,FUTURE MONSTER OR FORGOTTEN TUNES.THEY ARE OUT THERE AT A DECENT PRICE IF YOU HAVE THE PASSION & AN EAR TO FIND THEM.

I NEVER HAVE OR WILL PLAY BOOTS/RE-ISSUES.I DONT SEE THE POINT WHEN THERE ARE 1,000S OF ORIGINALS OUT THERE @ A PRICE YOU CAN PERSONALY AFFORD.WHO WANTS TO PLAY A RE ISSUE/BOOT OF A RECORD THAT SOMEONE ELSE HAS MADE BIG OR SPUN @ SUM POINT.THE PLEASURE IN FINDING YOUR OWN & ORIGINAL TUNE IS WHAT DOES IT FOR ME.

I JUST LOVE ORIGINAL SOUL MUSIC.THE WAY IT WAS MADE.

[steve z]

HERES A THOUGHT.IN THE MID 80S TO MID 90S.THE SCENE NUMBERS WERE DOWN & THERE WASNT AS MANY PUNTERS BUYING RECORDS.THERE WASNT A LOT OF DJS ON THE GO EITHER.NOW EVERY1 WANTS TO DJ OR RUN A SOUL NITE.SO MORE DEMAND ON OLDIES,NEWIES & RARE 45S,PUSHING THE PRICE UP WAY OUT OF REACH FOR MOST.DOSNT MAKE COLLECTORS/DJS SNOBS CAUSE THEY HAVE TO PAY MORE FOR ORIGINAL & RARE RECORDS.

THE POINT IM TRYING TO MAKE IS.THE PRICE OF 45S IN THE MID 80/90S WASNT OUT OF ANY1S REACH.THERE ONLY SEEMED TO BE A HANDFULL OF 45S THAT WERE OVER SAY £300.YOU COULD GET ANY RECORD THAT WAS GETTING SPINS AT THE TIME FOR £100 OR LESS.LOOK BACK AT GOLDMINES OLD LISTS.RECORDS THAT ARE £200/300 TODAY WERE UNDER £100 THEN.£100 RECORDS TODAY WERE £10/15 THEN.HIS USED BUT NOT ABUSED PAGE WAS AMAZING FOR BARGAINS. MOST OF THERE 70S WERE £15 OR LESS.APART FROM THE ODD FEW THAT WERE BIG IN NORTERN ROOMS.

WHEN I WENT TO SHOTTS.MOST RECORDS WERE £10/15,CURRENT SPINS WERE

£30/100 & THE RARER ONES WERE £200/300 SAME AT KEELE.TAKE IT STAFFORD, & OTHER VENUES WERE THE SAME.

SO WHAT IM SAYING IS.IT WAS EASY TO COLLECT & PLAY ORIGINALS BACK THEN.PLUS IT WAS A NEWIES SCENE WITHOUT A LOT OF OLDIES.SO THE NEWIES & SEMI-KNOWNS WERENT TO DEAR(cause they hadnt gone big).YOU WASNT RIDICULED FOR HAVING OR PLAYING ORIGINALS THEN, LIKE WE ARE THE NOO.

I ADMIT I CANT AFFORD TO BUY THE RARE & OVER PRICED RECORDS,BUT I WOULD NEVER SLATE ANY1 WHO DOES.BUT IT DOES GIVE ME THE CHANCE TO BUY & PLAY ORIGINAL UNKNOWN,FUTURE MONSTER OR FORGOTTEN TUNES.THEY ARE OUT THERE AT A DECENT PRICE IF YOU HAVE THE PASSION & AN EAR TO FIND THEM.

I NEVER HAVE OR WILL PLAY BOOTS/RE-ISSUES.I DONT SEE THE POINT WHEN THERE ARE 1,000S OF ORIGINALS OUT THERE @ A PRICE YOU CAN PERSONALY AFFORD.WHO WANTS TO PLAY A RE ISSUE/BOOT OF A RECORD THAT SOMEONE ELSE HAS MADE BIG OR SPUN @ SUM POINT.THE PLEASURE IN FINDING YOUR OWN & ORIGINAL TUNE IS WHAT DOES IT FOR ME.

I JUST LOVE ORIGINAL SOUL MUSIC.THE WAY IT WAS MADE.

Hi Please PM I will gladly send you a few originals ,albeit snippets, of some lesser known ,as yet ,not booted or available to non-soul collectors........ATB Stevie Z

[Guest Phil Richards]

Ah Yes, but what do The Magnetics cook on their "GRIL", Sausages

Anyway, I tried the tactic of playing the Magnetics to entice people through the door way back in post # 8

Opps sorry Dave

[Quinvy]

er, not be a DJ? It's not like there's a shortage. People will always collect records because they love the music, why not let them be the DJs, they have the most knowledge and are in the best position to find new tracks.

Without that culture, there wouldn't be any fucking re-issues, doesn't it follow then that that culture should be respected so that it continues. If the incentive to pay big money for new records was taken away, that would be it for new discoveries. If the incentive had been taken away 20 years ago, how many records would never have been discovered?

The point that gets missed a lot is that you can only have the knowledge to do a good, interesting set if you're an experienced collector.

So I guess a top DJ could do a good set off CDs, but that's not what we're talking baout is it. Even that would be too open to cheating!

Sure, a big DJ with a big collection might play 10 records that you can get on re-issues and wouldn't sound any different played off them, but it'll be the new tracks he / she plays that aren't re-issued that complete a good set, and that are essential for a good set.

DJing needs to be exciting and interesting. How exciting and interesting, and progressive will it be if you're playing tracks that get played everywhere and that everyone has at home?

re-ssues etc fine for back ground music in pubs or parties. But If you're asking people to travel, what are you offering them? Scenes like this require people to travel and people will only travel for something that's worth travelling for. A mug playing CDs, or even worse: fake originals, is not IMO. Not even worth paying for.

Well put Mike, that's exactly what I meant to say but I ballsed it up.

Edited August 10, 2006 by quinvy

[Quinvy]

strange argument, anyone who wants to hear either can get them on CD and listen to them all day. If you want to dance to them, go and support one of the many clubs / DJs who will play them on original. The same people who will be finding the next Lou Pride or Morris Chesnut.

That supports the scene and you enjoy those records in a better, busier atmosphere, because others have made that decision too. Everyone's happy.

As for being 'deprived of owning a record'. What possible pleasure can owning a fake record provide? Surely owning a record is only of interest to a collector, if you're a collector why would you want a fake? If you cant afford an original, 'tough shit' springs to mind. Leave the DJing to someone who can.

OBSOLUTELY SPOT ON

[Saxafone]

Facts which appear irrelevant to this argument;

CDs are little discs that contain digitised music as opposed to the very flawed medium that is vinyl

Many people including myself love travelling to obscure outposts of the Northern Soul world to hear the latest and greatest discoveries played in the atmosphere and environment that befits the music - in the company of fellow travellers

(preface with) In my opinion, There is sod all wrong in a local piss up or soul night - call it what you will, playing the sounds on CD or any other medium provided that's what it is advertised as - an extension to every Friday night at my house ! Neighbours would love it in fact !

A gang of like minded people gathering to listen, enjoy and share our music played on CD - FANTASTIC !

For the Taliban Fundamentalists - this will never ever replace what you seek to protect at all costs, it is just another way for more people to enjoy what we all love.

[paultp]

This is a quote from a current eBay auction:

"THIS IS A 70S ORIGINAL 2ND REISSUE NOT A BOOT "

[pikeys dog]

If there wasn't a stigma attached to playing boots as a DJ then why go to all this bother?

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NORTHERN-SOUL-LYNN-R...1QQcmdZViewItem

[Guest dundeedavie]

Facts which appear irrelevant to this argument;

CDs are little discs that contain digitised music as opposed to the very flawed medium that is vinyl

Many people including myself love travelling to obscure outposts of the Northern Soul world to hear the latest and greatest discoveries played in the atmosphere and environment that befits the music - in the company of fellow travellers

(preface with) In my opinion, There is sod all wrong in a local piss up or soul night - call it what you will, playing the sounds on CD or any other medium provided that's what it is advertised as - an extension to every Friday night at my house ! Neighbours would love it in fact !

A gang of like minded people gathering to listen, enjoy and share our music played on CD - FANTASTIC !

For the Taliban Fundamentalists - this will never ever replace what you seek to protect at all costs, it is just another way for more people to enjoy what we all love.

you were right in your first statement ....... those facts are irrelevant to the argument .

interesting turn of phrase calling a local soul night a piss up though

[Stuart Bower]

Ah Yes, but what do The Magnetics cook on their "GRIL", Sausages

Anyway, I tried the tactic of playing the Magnetics to entice people through the door way back in post # 8

Along with some "SLICED TOMATOES" ?? And on two "grils" it`s "DOUBLE COOKIN" ?Alright,alright- I`ll get me` coat, Dave...

[Guest]

I appreciate vinyl - we wouldn't have heard the majority of songs if they wern't played out... however, I'm not a lover of records. They're cumbersome, expensive and over-priced (argue that in 10 years time!).

Me? Any medium, I just want to hear it and dance to it.

[Guest Bogue]

I don't think the 'money goes to the artist if you play the original" argument stands up to any scrutiny. Lets face it it dosen't make one iota of difference ! because no money goes to the artist just because "Joe Bloggs" has played it at so & so allnighter & also just because the DJ payed £X000 for it the artist never got a percentage of that either !

Don't get me wrong, i love to collect original vinyl where i can afford it & i love tracking it down, but that is purely my pleasure, i don't think the majority of dancers really care.

Maybe at the cutting edge venues yes, but not at local soul nights. & what is so wrong with local soul nights ? at least 60/70% of the people in attendance would not travel to a larger venue anyhow so it does not really have much effect on these attendences either.

& to be honest most small local promoters, if they have any sense try their damndest not to clash with other venues anyway, i know we certainly did when we organised the Uni Worcester charity nights. Mind you, must remember to add England football matches to that !

One other thing that cropped up earlier, someone said in so many words that if records did not change hands for big money ( presuming they meant that by only playing vinyl originals would preserve this) that there would be no new discoveries & wouldn't have been over the past 10/15 years. I disagree with this too. In the golden years of the scene, probably, yes. But now & also with the 90's discoveries i don't really think that's the case. Take for instance all the fantastic Kent discoveries from Ady Croasdell, if you look at it from a comercial view i'm sure it wasn't to find records to sell for big money ! Comercially it was more likley to put on to CD to sell to the general public. Though from what i have read & how it appears to me, Ady Croasdell would probably still have done it out of sheer enthusiasm & love of the stuff he was looking for anyhow. So for me, bang goes that argument !

So my point is live & let live ! , if you feel that only vinyl originals should be played, go to those venues, if it dosen't bother you, go where you like. But don't knock or belittle people for doing either.

P.s.

All only a personal opinion

Edited August 13, 2006 by Bogue

[mischief]

I've been reading all the coments on here and I can see where people are coming from but it made me wonder, how many dj's on here play boots... getting away from what we think is right or wrong for a minute... I just wondered if dj's felt the same as the dancers... or is it a mix of people that think boots are fine or originals are fine...

gonna try and do a poll so we can see the result..