Original Vinyl Or Nothing

[Guest Matt Male]

Totally agree (again) Dan,

I think you two should get a room....

[Guest Baz]

I think you two should get a room....

Now that was (quite) funny

[Guest]

lets get one thing sortred, who (in the main) are p**sed at people playing boots/pressings? not joe punter on the dance floor, he/she don't mind, he /she just want to dance, no, it's the man with the £2,000 record, the record collector, the pretentious ones who want POWER over all he sees, it's the "look at me, i'm a god because i paid £2,000 for this record and you mere mortals only paid a tenner for the boot" who's the mug? unless one is investing in the records to use as currency in the future why pay £2,000 if a playable boot can be got for a tenner. that's a record collector, and i do take my hat off to genuine record collectors, but hey, here's a thing, some of the top record collectors make quite shite djs, the occasional grunt to the dancing audience and a massive urger to play his/her next £2,000 record and not really what joe/joan punter wants to hear. so, IMHO, records for collectors fine, great, no probs, djs, don't matter zip what the label is, it's what comes out of the speakers and charges our very souls to dance, tap our feet or just sit and soak up the meories.

[Guest Bearsy]

Cant agree with you there Phil, what about the guy's and girls who are on the floor for 8 hrs a night every weekend? thats not passion?

The DJ's IMO who are really passionate would play what ever feels right not how expencive a tune is, i bet i could play a hour set of tunes under £50 and it would sound more fresh than any set of a hours worth of high end raritys.

i like to think im passionate about the scene but my misses aint and if i could i would buy more originals but you try and tell her that and im also passionate about my daughters 13 and 9 and wouldnt put anything before them, does that make me a part timer with no real proper passion ?

im going to put a new post up about who is passionate or not and for what reason they think why.

here here

[Pete S]

Try again with this one..51 years old been around a bit.I admit to being a bit "old school" I love the northern classics, my alltime fave is " Magnetics-I Have A Girl " I have been Back on the scene about 5 year, in that time i have only heard this tune played 2 or 3 times, now we all know owning that bit of 39 year old vinyl would be fantastic.no argument

I would have a big stupid grin on my face if local'ish DJ's played it,but ofcourse they dont reasons are as you lot know

1 its very rare and expensive on the original label "Ra Sel - £2000"

2 If they had it, would they play it in a working mens club with the floor heaving, even with cusioned decks, I remember once when a member of the bar staff leaned accross to the DJ, cought the pickup arm on his shirt sleave ,orrible noise you get the idea..I would not dare play one of my treasured tunes and would not really expect you too

So is this a reason to allow CD's or reissues at venues I think it is

I am not trying to start a slanging match about vinyl V CD...I love the music and just want to here these rare great old tunes

if it came down to original vinyl and never here the tunes or reissue or cd and hear the tunes, I want to here the tunes

Regards..Bazza

It's common round here, I know of 2 copies within a couple of miles of each other (true!)

[Pete S]

This has taken me 5 minutes to do....

on ebay ... buy it now... only an example and only took 5 minutes...

Johnny-Sayles-I-cant-get-enough- £3.99

Rubin you been away £3.99

Dee Dee Sharpe - deep dark secret £4.

Frank Wilson £6.99

Morris Chesnut to darn soulful £10

4 below 0 my baby's got esp. £3.99

Bobby Hutton -lend a hand (double sider see below)

Lou pride - I'm coming home in the morning £7.99

Tony Galla - in love £9.99

£50 odd quid + p&p

no passion there ... no searching for something differnt .. take the Tony Galla £9.99 for example (and also one of my fav records) but for £10/£15 you can find a decent out of fashion soul record that will fill a floor ..... if you wanted to or if you can be bothered..

Then again I don't care what you play I only care what I play

Okay and now what about the people who can't afford to buy Lou Pride for 1500 quid, Morris Chestnut for 400 quid and so on, they should be deprived of hearing and owning the record?

[Guest Bearsy]

i wish they was all tenners and on the same one and only label, would`nt that make things easy.

[Phild]

To dj you need passion, finding originals 45's is a passion.. buying boots takes 5 minutes on ebay.... Type in Northern Soul ... click Buy It Now... 15 minutes later and £100, you have a set of top tunes wheres the passion in that...

also if we all played boots rarer records would loose there sparkle..

Only my views...

I may as well throw my two pennorth in.

Firstly let me make my own stance clear - I am a vinyl collector, when I used to DJ I only played proper vinyl and I spent the best part of my teen and adult life searching for and buying original vinyl and that "passion" was to the exclusion of just about everything (and everyone) else in my life. I re-mortgaged the house to buy records and consequently had it reposessed when I lost the job. Even spent the money I'd saved up for the revenue on vinyl too, the taxman was not best pleased to say the least Still do buy the odd record now and again but have calmed down the last few years. So for me vinyl, vinyl and more vinyl.

But .... the best collection in the world doesn't make a good DJ. No way, no how. A good DJ is one who knows how to put a set of records together for the specific crowd for which he (or she) is playing to. Be they rarities, common as muck, vinyl, CD, or even mp3 is irrelevant as long as the paying punters enjoy themsleves. In the context of some venues then original vinyl is just as important as the ability to put the set of records together, but not in most.

Phil

[mischief]

Okay and now what about the people who can't afford to buy Lou Pride for 1500 quid, Morris Chestnut for 400 quid and so on, they should be deprived of hearing and owning the record?

No not at all... i'm talking dj's I feel a dj with true intrest in the music will search for a record he or she feels will fill the floor... hard I agree ...but you sell records and you must some times think why don't know one play (whatever) its excellant and only £20... dosn't Manship have a recomended list on hes sight some cheap stuff on there.. dosn't pat brady have a recomendation list...

Indoors play what you like on whatever format enjoy it dance round your record room/living room, its what its all about....

but if its ok to dj with boots then it must be ok to dj with cd's & mp's.

I have friends (honest) that I go to do's with and ask me why I spend so much money on records (which I don't but compared to them I do)... they buy boots and I don't even comment as its there record not mine, I just say if I like the track or not... I have boots upstairs... I just feel for a dj to play boots at a venue is an easy option theres good cheap sounds out there you just need to look for them...

i'm off to bed my spellings getting worse..night

Edited August 7, 2006 by mischief

[Quinvy]

Cant agree with you there Phil, what about the guy's and girls who are on the floor for 8 hrs a night every weekend? thats not passion?

The DJ's IMO who are really passionate would play what ever feels right not how expencive a tune is, i bet i could play a hour set of tunes under £50 and it would sound more fresh than any set of a hours worth of high end raritys.

P.S your completely wrong about Dan

Hi Baz,

I got a bit hot under the collar there. It's a very imotive subject is it not? I have no doubt that the cheaper record spot would be fresh, but would I ever want to hear any of the records again? At the end of the day we all have our own opinions, and long may it be so. I do actually own/and play some cheap records believe it or not. But that's not what I was on about. It's the playing of bootlegs/re-issues that pisses me off......

The people who actually boot/re-issue records are the real problem here. I personally have no time for them. They are just interested in money in my humble opinion. Some of the 45s that have been so called re-issued lately haven't even had chance to get popular. The Saints springs to mind.....

The thing that got me into this music in the first place was I loved it, but had to travel miles to hear it, cos it was rare and not easily accessable. And the DJ's were looking for new and rarer tunes that nobody else had. Elitist? hell yes, and thats what it's all about to me.....

Nowadays all anyone seems worried about is what time the bar is open till. Yeh thats real passion for the music. I think if some people actually went out and stayed sober they may just be less inclined to want to hear the same old records every week.....

Just my opinion of course

[Guest Bearsy]

SOUL IN THE CITY advertise a night of soul and they clearly put on thier flyer -

all played on original vinyl,it might not mean nothing to you but it means something to us.

to me that puts it all in perspective,

[Guest Bearsy]

No not at all... i'm talking dj's I feel a dj with true intrest in the music will search for a record he or she feels will fill the floor... hard I agree ...but you sell records and you must some times think why don't know one play (whatever) its excellant and only £20... dosn't Manship have a recomended list on hes sight some cheap stuff on there.. dosn't pat brady have a recomendation list...

Indoors play what you like on whatever format enjoy it dance round your record room/living room, its what its all about....

but if its ok to dj with boots then it must be ok to dj with cd's & mp's.

I have friends (honest) that I go to do's with and ask me why I spend so much money on records (which I don't but compared to them I do)... they buy boots and I don't even comment as its there record not mine, I just say if I like the track or not... I have boots upstairs... I just feel for a dj to play boots at a venue is an easy option theres good cheap sounds out there you just need to look for them...

i'm off to bed my spellings getting worse..night

well put mischief i couldnt agree more, im off to start looking

[Quinvy]

here here

If you just want to play them at home you can get most tunes on CD. If you want to dj you have to make sacrifices. It's like in any other hobby/pastime/sport/passion in life. If you want to play you have to put the effort in. By paying for boots and so called re-issues you are lining the pockets of the business men, and comercialising an underground scene. If you can't afford the big tunes, find the cheap quality 45s like many others do. But DJ'ing with boots/re-issues

[Pete S]

If you just want to play them at home you can get most tunes on CD. If you want to dj you have to make sacrifices. It's like in any other hobby/pastime/sport/passion in life. If you want to play you have to put the effort in. By paying for boots and so called re-issues you are lining the pockets of the business men, and comercialising an underground scene. If you can't afford the big tunes, find the cheap quality 45s like many others do. But DJ'ing with boots/re-issues

Right well thanks for letting me know, I'll bear all that in mind, and when I do, do I become a proper northern soulie?

F*cks sake.

[Guest Dan]

Sorry my friend but you have used a ridiculous example. Mick H is a smashing bloke, but he is obviously a wealthy man. I, on the other hand am not. For me it's an obsession. I spend vast amounts of money that I don't have, and struggle to make ends meet. No fancy cars or foreign holidays for me. Don't imagine that all the people who pay the ridiculous prices for records are all wealthy. Cos they're not. They are the ones who are REALLY passionate about this scene.....

You are talking about something you have no experiance of, and I would presume that you like the classic oldies, and attend Mr. Roberts events.....

Though I may be wrong

i wasn't having a go at mick. like i say, i'm sure he's a great bloke - never heard a bad word against him, truthfully, and the times i've heard him dj he's been good (not that i'm a great judge).

what i was trying to say, in a cack-handed way, was that the modern-day huge cost of rare and in demand vinyl has distorted the 'scene' (as has the internet).

20-30 years ago, it was much harder to own the top sounds for various reasons.

now, anyone with money (or an overdraft) and broadband can own the top sounds (apart from a few one-offs). in six months, you could buy yourself 15 major and hard oldies and 15 almost unknowns and put together a set that only a few of the proper dj/collectors (butch, andy dyson etc) could beat. it's a fact (though whether it would be any good to listen to is another matter - much more to a set than just the records, and even just the sounds). by 'you', i mean 'one' by the way.

i'd have maximum respect for someone who spent their life hunting for records and uncovered, say, margaret little. should i respect someone who buys it off ebay for $6,000? (i don't disrespect him, either, that's not my point.)

and all this stuff about some people being more 'passionate' about 'the scene' than everyone else. honestly, phil, it's mad. how do you define 'passion'? some people have got f*** all else in their lives. some people are incredibly boring. some people go out and hardly even listen to the records. some people have awesome collections and don't shout about it. some people have 100 records they're dead proud of. some people dj cos they're on an ego trip. some people eat, sleep and drink soul music. some go out every weekend and never dance. some go out once a year and dance their heads off. some are still whizzing their tits off when they've got grandchildren. some never touched drugs. some still wear baggies and vests. some have only ever worn jeans. 'passion' is nonsense - it's just a word employed to put mr a on a pedestal and mr b below him. usually used by mr a.

as for talking about something i have no experience of, and liking oldies and going to kev roberts dos, i can't comment on the first bit, i just collect records, some cost a lot, some cost a bit, on the second i just like great records, (they're all oldies now phil, when will people get it into their heads that there just is no hard-driving newies scene now and there hasn't been for years, there's a very decent few discoveries and lots of reactivations) and i've never been to a kr do in my life

i'm sure there are lots of great northern events still. soulsville in leeds was good at the underground bar, soul or nothing is very good, the 100 club is still going strong and won't have dropped its standards. but your own do in burnley, last review i read (by you, i think ) you had eight people in. presumably, all stood round going, is this on original or not?

but it's 2006. the northern scene you knew way back when and i loved as a kid (even in the supposedly dead 80s) is gone and will never come back, and the originals vs non-originals debate is irrelevent. (not talking about boots, though, i draw the line at profiteers).

just my opinions, is all.

edited: just re-reading this post. obviously, i know (i think) that mick bought the margaret little so it sounds like i am having as go despite saying i'm not. well, i'm not. just saying that these days having a total originals only policy excludes a lot of people who can't afford the big sounds. mainly younger people. i know it's an exclusive scene yada yada i know there's a lot of cheapies out there yada yada ... to me, as i get older, i don't care, is all. play what you like, how you like. i have no axe to grind. what are you going to do when your 45s wear through, though?

Edited August 7, 2006 by Dan

[Guest]

Okay and now what about the people who can't afford to buy Lou Pride for 1500 quid, Morris Chestnut for 400 quid and so on, they should be deprived of hearing and owning the record?

Yes,if it is not legal

[Guest]

If you just want to play them at home you can get most tunes on CD. If you want to dj you have to make sacrifices. It's like in any other hobby/pastime/sport/passion in life. If you want to play you have to put the effort in. By paying for boots and so called re-issues you are lining the pockets of the business men, and comercialising an underground scene. If you can't afford the big tunes, find the cheap quality 45s like many others do. But DJ'ing with boots/re-issues

it don't matter to MOST people who pay good money travelling miles to a venue to dance to GOOD northern, most don't give a monkey's toss what label it's on and as soon as you elitists realise that the less stressed you'll get when someone is playing a boot which only cost a tenner, fills the dance floor and allows that person to pay the other £1,990 on his/her kids clothes/education or things that REALLY mean something in the REAL world. my god!!! some people take themselves way, way too serious. and hey, the punter who buys the boots has just as much right to the scene as him/her who MUST have original label. we ALL have a value as an individual so please, please get life into perspective. if you really want to impress the world, buy the boot and donate the £1,990 to NCH or Alzheimer's society, believe me, it may deflate your ego but it WILL increase your SOUL.

[Quinvy]

i wasn't having a go at mick. like i say, i'm sure he's a great bloke - never heard a bad word against him, truthfully, and the times i've heard him dj he's been good (not that i'm a great judge).

what i was trying to say, in a cack-handed way, was that the modern-day huge cost of rare and in demand vinyl has distorted the 'scene' (as has the internet).

20-30 years ago, it was much harder to own the top sounds for various reasons.

now, anyone with money (or an overdraft) and broadband can own the top sounds (apart from a few one-offs). in six months, you could buy yourself 15 major and hard oldies and 15 almost unknowns and put together a set that only a few of the proper dj/collectors (butch, andy dyson etc) could beat. it's a fact (though whether it would be any good to listen to is another matter - much more to a set than just the records, and even just the sounds). by 'you', i mean 'one' by the way.

i'd have maximum respect for someone who spent their life hunting for records and uncovered, say, margaret little. should i respect someone who buys it off ebay for $6,000? (i don't disrespect him, either, that's not my point.)

and all this stuff about some people being more 'passionate' about 'the scene' than everyone else. honestly, phil, it's mad. how do you define 'passion'? some people have got f*** all else in their lives. some people are incredibly boring. some people go out and hardly even listen to the records. some people have awesome collections and don't shout about it. some people have 100 records they're dead proud of. some people dj cos they're on an ego trip. some people eat, sleep and drink soul music. some go out every weekend and never dance. some go out once a year and dance their heads off. some are still whizzing their tits off when they've got grandchildren. some never touched drugs. some still wear baggies and vests. some have only ever worn jeans. 'passion' is nonsense - it's just a word employed to put mr a on a pedestal and mr b below him. usually used by mr a.

as for talking about something i have no experience of, and liking oldies and going to kev roberts dos, i can't comment on the first bit, i just collect records, some cost a lot, some cost a bit, on the second i just like great records, (they're all oldies now phil, when will people get it into their heads that there just is no hard-driving newies scene now and there hasn't been for years, there's a very decent few discoveries and lots of reactivations) and i've never been to a kr do in my life

i'm sure there are lots of great northern events still. soulsville in leeds was good at the underground bar, soul or nothing is very good, the 100 club is still going strong and won't have dropped its standards. but your own do in burnley, last review i read (by you, i think ) you had eight people in. presumably, all stood round going, is this on original or not?

but it's 2006. the northern scene you knew way back when and i loved as a kid (even in the supposedly dead 80s) is gone and will never come back, and the originals vs non-originals debate is irrelevent. (not talking about boots, though, i draw the line at profiteers).

just my opinions, is all.

Some good points there Dan and you could well be right. That wasn't a review, that was me saying enough is enough and changing the format and venue. Too much on a Saturday night now, so moved to a friday and changed to an allnighter. Going well at the moment mate, but we'll see what happens Sept 1st....

As for owning the big records being easier now, that's bollocks if you don't mind me saying so. If Ian Levine hadn't had money? and I've heard stories of the big names of the eighties buying all the quality unknowns and making a big name for themselves. It's always been the same, you just see it now because of the inernet.

DJ'ing with boots & re-issues to me is a big if you are happy with the scene as it is then I'm happy for you. I aren't and I'm trying to do something about it in my own small way. At least I can say that I tried.

[solidhit]

having a total originals only policy excludes a lot of people who can't afford the big sounds.

This, I think is the crux of the issue. What is a "big sound" and how does a record become a "big sound"? All records are available only as originals until it's a big-enough sound for someone to re-issue or bootleg. By definition, anything available as a re-issue or bootleg is already a "known" sound. The top DJ's discover their own sounds or re-activate under-appreciated/forgotten sounds. Hence, you have the Butch's of the northern scene. People who play other DJs "big sounds" can only be pretenders to the throne. There are certainly pretenders who play originals only, but they're not playing their own discoveries, are they? They're the ones who are paying stupid money just to be able to play someone else's discovery.

Greg

[Guest]

This, I think is the crux of the issue. What is a "big sound" and how does a record become a "big sound"? All records are available only as originals until it's a big-enough sound for someone to re-issue or bootleg. By definition, anything available as a re-issue or bootleg is already a "known" sound. The top DJ's discover their own sounds or re-activate under-appreciated/forgotten sounds. Hence, you have the Butch's of the northern scene. People who play other DJs "big sounds" can only be pretenders to the throne. There are certainly pretenders who play originals only, but they're not playing their own discoveries, are they? They're the ones who are paying stupid money just to be able to play someone else's discovery.

Greg

the last thing i think of when i'm dancing to a record is "mmmm, i wonder who discovered this?", don't mean nowt except to he or she who discovered it and he or she who's jealous because they didn't, the rest of us (in general) don't give a s*it, just play the music and we'll dance, nothing elitist in that,

[Quinvy]

it don't matter to MOST people who pay good money travelling miles to a venue to dance to GOOD northern, most don't give a monkey's toss what label it's on and as soon as you elitists realise that the less stressed you'll get when someone is playing a boot which only cost a tenner, fills the dance floor and allows that person to pay the other £1,990 on his/her kids clothes/education or things that REALLY mean something in the REAL world. my god!!! some people take themselves way, way too serious. and hey, the punter who buys the boots has just as much right to the scene as him/her who MUST have original label. we ALL have a value as an individual so please, please get life into perspective. if you really want to impress the world, buy the boot and donate the £1,990 to NCH or Alzheimer's society, believe me, it may deflate your ego but it WILL increase your SOUL.

Now that really is the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. Where do you think the records come from in the first place? Some collector or dj found it, bought it, played it and got it popular. And my guess is they did it so that they could play it out and get people dancing, and yes, make it there own. Why should somebody make an illegal copy off that record and make money off it, and you think that that's OK.....

If you take away the magic of exclusivity of the music, then you kill the scene. That's exactly what's happening now. No need to travel to hear the music, just set up your own night playing boots/re-issues & CD's. It's just down the road so I can get pissed and stagger home....

Good luck to you, but not for me. I presume from what you say in your hollier than thou post, that you buy all the cheapest brands of everything, and the money that you saved goes to charity. You must be a saint.

[solidhit]

the last thing i think of when i'm dancing to a record is "mmmm, i wonder who discovered this?", don't mean nowt except to he or she who discovered it and he or she who's jealous because they didn't, the rest of us (in general) don't give a s*it, just play the music and we'll dance, nothing elitist in that,

You don't have to know who discovered it. But that's not the point I'm making. The point is that this wouldn't be an issue is DJs actually sought out their own unique sounds. Copying someone else's "big sound" playist is the problem. If you're a DJ, play you're own sounds. You're own "discoveries" or what YOU like. Don't play what you think people want to hear. That's just a recipe for stagnation. There's nothing "elitist" in playing originals only. Originals don't have to cost a fortune. Play what you think is good, period.

[paultp]

Right just shut the pub (quiet on a Monday) and saw this topic WHICH I LOVE! So here's my take on it (in no particular order):

If people didn't search out original vinyl there wouldn't be anything to boot.

If people play bootlegs at do's as long as that policy is clear so what? I just wouldn't go though cos I can do the same at home and the sets would be of no real interest as there would be no "Wow! what was that".

I have bought bootlegs in the past, now I look at them and think "what is the point of owning this on vinyl? I have it on CD and that is far more convenient, I'm never going to knowingly DJ with a boot so why keep it?" I'm selling all my boots.

Vinyl is an impractical media, it is heavy and there is normally only a maximum of two tunes on a quite large lump of a thing. If you just want to hear the tunes and couldn't give a toss about originals, labels etc then get an ipod, it is far more convenient. Why buy vinyl now if it isn't original? If you want to put on a do and don't care about originals then play off CD's far more convenient and far more choice, why lug a 200 box of bootlegs about?

I like to hear the rare tunes on original vinyl, I don't know why though. If I wasn't tied to the pub I would be out and about trying to hear new stuff and also hear people play the classics on original vinyl. Dave Rimmer played The Magnetics at These Old Shoes and it sent a tingle down my spine! I could of played it on CD when I got home but it wouldn't have been the same would it? In London I used to love Alan Hanscomb's sets as he always played something different and new.

My missus has a nice set of bootlegs from the 70's that she bought at the time ( a couple of nice originals too ), to me she should never sell them as they are special to her, they are part of her personal history. But I wouldn't DJ with them (hopefully she won't either!).

That all said, you can have pretty much any record you want these days if you have enough money. If you want a certain record you can just post on here and say " anyone got a copy of XXXX, I'll give you X hundred/grand" bet you get offered three. You can go on eBay every week and buy fantastic records if you are quite happy to shell out more dosh than anyone else, but is that really cricket? I reckon that it would take about 3 months with unlimited money to put a fantastic playbox together but where is the heart in that?

So, its originals only for me but when I go out I want to hear someone's personal choice of records not a current national top 20 Northern records in a set. Jason from Bournemouth once said to me that when they booked a DJ they wanted him/her to take them for a walk through their record box in an hour not just play 20 biggies and I think that sums it up really.

Off to bed

Bye

[solidhit]

the rest of us (in general) don't give a s*it, just play the music and we'll dance, nothing elitist in that,

OK, Coops, why is you're avatar a scan of an original Mel Britt, rather than a scan of the boot with the "white ring" around label? Did you scan your own copy of the record that you'd spent good money on? ["Good money" is defined as more than 5 quid (which I think is about the average price for a boot, though still overpriced in my opinion) ] If its not your own record, did you consider the implications of having an original or bootleg as your avatar? If so, please explain. If not, what would you have said to someone who questioned you about having a bootleg scan up? What if Mel Britt himself had expressed dismay about you not buying an original copy from him for a reasonable market-value price? The entire bootleg-condoning community on the northern scene has a lot to answer for in this case.

Greg

[Guest kent soul club]

What comes out of the speakers is surely what really matters. And if you can afford to pay bundles for original records does that make you more passionate than someone who can't?

Also, some rare tunes seem to be played by dj's for dj's, not the paying punters they are supposed to be entertaining. And, these tunes can have the dj grinning like a cheshire cat while the punters have all gone to the bar.

I think Cd's are a no no, but with the vinyl - if it sounds good, it is good. And if you get pipped at the post by someone playing your rare tune on bootleg, that is just the same as someone on a £9,000 super bike getting beaten away from the lights by a fast scooter. Touche. It's just funny!!

And, it's not easy to put on a soul night and keep the dance floor packed all night. To do that requires much more passion and effort.

But what do I know???

McGoo

[Guest]

I remember back in the early 90s shortly after getting back into the scene a mate who put on the warmups for the Blackburn nighters asked me to bring up a box of records and do a set, in the box was a Horaces reissue of Eddie Daye's "Guess Who Loves You" which I duly played, when it finished one of the dancers (she knows who she is ) walked over and gave the decks the once over "she's checking to see if it's an original" I thought, I admit to feeling a mixture of shame and embarrassment and I mean I felt really bad about it, so much so that later I let her know how I'd felt, I never played another reissue.

I know some DJs wouldn't have given a toss and carried on regardless, that's fair enough, each to his own,but as far as I was concerned I learned my lesson that night, I suppose you could say it was a respect for a certain aspect of the scene and would like to think any DJ worth his/her salt would feel the same.

[Dave Rimmer]

It's common round here, I know of 2 copies within a couple of miles of each other (true!)

Yeah, there are probably less than twenty copies of The Magnetics on Ra-Sel, and two of them are in Dudley. There's one in Brum as well.

[Guest]

Now that really is the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. Where do you think the records come from in the first place? Some collector or dj found it, bought it, played it and got it popular. And my guess is they did it so that they could play it out and get people dancing, and yes, make it there own. Why should somebody make an illegal copy off that record and make money off it, and you think that that's OK.....

If you take away the magic of exclusivity of the music, then you kill the scene. That's exactly what's happening now. No need to travel to hear the music, just set up your own night playing boots/re-issues & CD's. It's just down the road so I can get pissed and stagger home....

Good luck to you, but not for me. I presume from what you say in your hollier than thou post, that you buy all the cheapest brands of everything, and the money that you saved goes to charity. You must be a saint.

the charity bit was a metaphor to help people get this into perspective, sorry if you missed that.

[BrianB]

Sorry my friend but you have used a ridiculous example. Mick H is a smashing bloke, but he is obviously a wealthy man. I, on the other hand am not. For me it's an obsession. I spend vast amounts of money that I don't have, and struggle to make ends meet. No fancy cars or foreign holidays for me. Don't imagine that all the people who pay the ridiculous prices for records are all wealthy. Cos they're not. They are the ones who are REALLY passionate about this scene.....

You are talking about something you have no experiance of, and I would presume that you like the classic oldies, and attend Mr. Roberts events.....

Though I may be wrong

Phil,

From your earlier post, why God help our scene because people want to own and listen to records they simply cannot afford so they buy CDs or boots?

You say who is really passionate about our scene? My son is 25 and is totally passionate about the scene, the records and the people. He is also £13000 in debt following university. He wants to collect records. His birthday was yesterday and he got some money. He rang me last night saying he had £50 to buy some sounds and where can he get them from. Am I to tell this passionate kid, the future of the scene, NOT to go to E Bay, not to go to TBR? How did you start buying Phil? Boots, listening to illicit live recordings?

My heart was almost breaking, what can he buy for £50?

[Guest]

OK, Coops, why is you're avatar a scan of an original Mel Britt, rather than a scan of the boot with the "white ring" around label? Did you scan your own copy of the record that you'd spent good money on? ["Good money" is defined as more than 5 quid (which I think is about the average price for a boot, though still overpriced in my opinion) ] If its not your own record, did you consider the implications of having an original or bootleg as your avatar? If so, please explain. If not, what would you have said to someone who questioned you about having a bootleg scan up? What if Mel Britt himself had expressed dismay about you not buying an original copy from him for a reasonable market-value price? The entire bootleg-condoning community on the northern scene has a lot to answer for in this case.

Greg

it really doesn't bother me whether a scan is a scan of a boot or an original, i have always loved the tune since i first heard it back in 1975. never had an original, bought first-time-around pressing many years ago, all i could afford. now if mel britt was with a record company and they did a re-issue of it and he got a percentage of the money i think that would be justified. those who have recently paid a small fortune for an original of mel britt how much of that small fortune went to the artist???? zip! all went to the pocket of the record dealer/collector/seller. so please, while 'we' are all posturing about paying big bucks for big records don't forget the % of the big bucks NOT going to the artist. i know one can't be a little bit pregnant and also boot don't pay commission to artists (in general) but thats a corperate thing, a police matter, if there was no market the there'd be no boots. if someone discovered a warehouse full of mel britts maybe we could all have an original sleeping sound in the knowledge that all rights to the artist were paid if full!!!! nah, guess i'm just pissing against the egotistical elitist wind here and i'll leave it now, it's not my right to try and change anyones opinion, just expressing mine and that of many other 'foot soldiers' of the northern scene, may be not, may be i'm thinking of a parralell universe type northern scene!

[Guest Dan]

Some good points there Dan and you could well be right. That wasn't a review, that was me saying enough is enough and changing the format and venue. Too much on a Saturday night now, so moved to a friday and changed to an allnighter. Going well at the moment mate, but we'll see what happens Sept 1st....

As for owning the big records being easier now, that's bollocks if you don't mind me saying so. If Ian Levine hadn't had money? and I've heard stories of the big names of the eighties buying all the quality unknowns and making a big name for themselves. It's always been the same, you just see it now because of the inernet.

DJ'ing with boots & re-issues to me is a big if you are happy with the scene as it is then I'm happy for you. I aren't and I'm trying to do something about it in my own small way. At least I can say that I tried.

phil, good luck with the new format etc. hope it works for you

the bit about bollocks/levine/the 80s:

'bollocks' - i'm not saying money was never a factor. it always has been. i'm just saying that now it's the only factor, since everyone has the internet.

'levine' - well, he had the dough but love him or loathe him he also spent many hours in dusty rooms digging.

'80s unknowns' - well, they wouldn't have cost much. and nearly every record i bought in the 80s was unknown. (to me )

[Guest Dan]

This, I think is the crux of the issue. What is a "big sound" and how does a record become a "big sound"? All records are available only as originals until it's a big-enough sound for someone to re-issue or bootleg. By definition, anything available as a re-issue or bootleg is already a "known" sound. The top DJ's discover their own sounds or re-activate under-appreciated/forgotten sounds. Hence, you have the Butch's of the northern scene. People who play other DJs "big sounds" can only be pretenders to the throne. There are certainly pretenders who play originals only, but they're not playing their own discoveries, are they? They're the ones who are paying stupid money just to be able to play someone else's discovery.

Greg

thanks for the history lesson, greg

my point is, while i would only play originals myself (if i was a dj), and i only collect original vinyl (and cds), i couldn't care less about what format other people play things on.

the 'big sounds' bit sounds silly in isolation (90% of the records i really like are 100 quid or less) but the point i was making was this: for all the talk about 'you can put a set of unknown cheapies together', everyone bar a small number of djs (butch is one, i mentioned him) will basically play a combo of massive oldies and lesser-known oldies. the weighting will vary but you'll always know plenty of the records played if you had a misspent youth listening to tapes like most of us did . in the era when cash really is king anyone can buy 10 really big guaranteed floor packers, and the next margaret little-type genuine semi/unknown and put a set together, and that turns me off a bit.

it's like a records arms race. and ultimately, what's it all about?

[mischief]

I remember back in the early 90s shortly after getting back into the scene a mate who put on the warmups for the Blackburn nighters asked me to bring up a box of records and do a set, in the box was a Horaces reissue of Eddie Daye's "Guess Who Loves You" which I duly played, when it finished one of the dancers (she knows who she is ) walked over and gave the decks the once over "she's checking to see if it's an original" I thought, I admit to feeling a mixture of shame and embarrassment and I mean I felt really bad about it, so much so that later I let her know how I'd felt, I never played another reissue.

I had a similar thing when I first started djing...

I was at a scooter rally playing Metros "since I found my baby" on Joker and my mate walked in the back of the room walked straight up to me without looking at the decks and said to me "you playing that on a boot it sounds crap the quality at the back of the room is terrible you can just about hear it"..

took me 3 months till i found the original .. but that was it...my turning point... maybe that should be the question..if you started djing with boots but don't now what changed your views

mind you peanut duck was booted on joker and that really sounds crap... as soon as the needle hits the groove

[Little-stevie]

Cant agree with you there Phil, what about the guy's and girls who are on the floor for 8 hrs a night every weekend? thats not passion?

The DJ's IMO who are really passionate would play what ever feels right not how expencive a tune is, i bet i could play a hour set of tunes under £50 and it would sound more fresh than any set of a hours worth of high end raritys.

P.S your completely wrong about Dan

Good post Baz....I get a buzz from hearing a new tune that i like and i don't care a cows cu"t if its 10 quid or 2,000...Fresh tunes are what i want to hear and well thought out set ..Semi known,underplayed,rare etc but the price means nowt to me,i hope its cheap and then i too can afford one ...Just a balanced night with good tunes on original viynl...

The passion is a different thing for each person too....I get a buzz from seeing people dance and having a good time sat with freinds,not from seeing the chin stroker in the record bar ..I have freinds who just stand in the record bar all night and have a great time too...You pay your money and do what you wanna go...

And Yes....The post about Dan and KR is a bit off the mark

Many many great cheap tunes without going to BOOT LEGS ARE US ..

[Guest the dukester]

The DJ's IMO who are really passionate would play what ever feels right not how expencive a tune is, i bet i could play a hour set of tunes under £50 and it would sound more fresh than any set of a hours worth of high end raritys.

So true, dj's must be able to read and respond to requirements of the paying public and play to fill the dancefloor. Ive been at soul nights where the "big names" play all the original rarities to very little dance floor action, but a local dj plays a whole host of readily available original cheaper tunes and dancefoor is buzzing.

question......What if you invite a dj to play and he travels miles to your venue and in his box is no end originals... also pressings, would you confiscate the pressings or let him do his stuff and if its been a packer........ say bo##ocks to the purists,We had a good night?

The answer to original or nothing is...DAMNED IF YOU DO..... DAMNED IF YOU DONT.

[Ged Parker]

Two comments from me I think everyone knows my views by now:

Boots are pressed as a money making exercise they are overpriced because of it CDs are much better value.

Once a record is booted anyone can play it and probably does so the novelty of hearing the sound soon wears off. I used to love Lou Pride I'm just tired of it now whether it is original or not, but I am only tired of it as a result of it being booted. There are records that were favourites of mine years ago that didn't get booted and they still can make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up when I hear them played out.

[BrianB]

Re my response to Phil (Quinvy) I've just had a PM from a guy who might not want me to name him, but his avatar is a dodging cat, that has totally restored my faith in the scene.

Dan, brilliant reply,

Pete, brilliant reply

Roger, Thanks.

[Tubbs]

Am I missing something here or has every soul record ever made been bootlegged over the last 6 months coz people who say boots should be played at venues would be on here moaning in 6 months saying that they are fed up hearing the same records week in week out. Let's face it how much of a percentage of soul records have been bootlegged less than 5% I bet. Might as well give my 7 year old daughter £100 to go to my local record shop and buy all the latest reissues then get her to dj at my next soul night. Would you travel to hear her play I think not so why just because it's a middle aged bloke that's doing it is it ok.

Tubbs

[Bazza]

I admit I`m a deejay. I admit I have quite a record collection. I admit that I only used to attend all-nighters and only treated soul nights as "warm ups" .I also admit to being one of the biggest musical snobs on the scene at one time. I admit that original vinyl 45`s (and also LP`s) are assets which are a sound financial investment because in most cases they will only increase in value. But I love `em that much I`d rather play `em than sell em on! As a kid I could only buy what I could afford and/or find. And nothing`s really changed. Originals are a lovely rare and wonderous thing. But only if you can afford `em! Or find `em. Or both. And most of the fun`s in the hunt. But the main thing I`ve learned over the years (since 1974) is.....

"IT`S WHAT`S IN THE GROOVE THAT COUNTS"

Love the music. Not the monetary value....

Hi Stu ..know who you are now..only DJ that plays "Fabulous Peps - With These Eyes"

another Rare'ish classic

Bazza

[Makemvinyl]

Yes of course I do, did the last skeggy weekender, and the whitby fiasco, infact already booked for the next skeggy weekender also off to KR's mini nighter at Matlock thissaturday....belive me I do my best to go to em all

Bazza

so isthat why local places book the big djs not to play the records played at the big venues

ps see you at Skeggy

[Bazza]

so isthat why local places book the big djs not to play the records played at the big venues

ps see you at Skeggy

Sorry you've lost me...I dont get your drift

Bazza

[Makemvinyl]

Sorry you've lost me...I dont get your drift

Bazza

back to the original quote re magnetics

[steve z]

Now that really is the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. Where do you think the records come from in the first place? Some collector or dj found it, bought it, played it and got it popular. And my guess is they did it so that they could play it out and get people dancing, and yes, make it there own. Why should somebody make an illegal copy off that record and make money off it, and you think that that's OK.....

If you take away the magic of exclusivity of the music, then you kill the scene. That's exactly what's happening now. No need to travel to hear the music, just set up your own night playing boots/re-issues & CD's. It's just down the road so I can get pissed and stagger home....

Good luck to you, but not for me. I presume from what you say in your hollier than thou post, that you buy all the cheapest brands of everything, and the money that you saved goes to charity. You must be a saint.

Phil ,how you doing ? Agree 100% ITS ABOUT HEARING TUNES THAT ARE NEW TO YOU(ME)

Imho not totally tried and tested ,gotta play'em 'cos I'm a big known DJ "cos its now safe to do so" .

As you say has KR got a point the majority are truly "PUNTERS" with the same mentality of the top 500?

Gonna play a few unknowns now.....the only way you can hear them...is on original....Stevie z

[Bazza]

Phil ,how you doing ? Agree 100% ITS ABOUT HEARING TUNES THAT ARE NEW TO YOU(ME)

Imho not totally tried and tested ,gotta play'em 'cos I'm a big known DJ "cos its now safe to do so" .

As you say has KR got a point the majority are truly "PUNTERS" with the same mentality of the top 500?

Gonna play a few unknowns now.....the only way you can hear them...is on original....Stevie z

I was at a doo saturday in mansfield ..the attic ( black bull )..didnt know a single tune..all new to me ..i still loved it

So now it sounds like you'r saying your a lower class type of soulie if you like the classics

utter flippin Rubbish

Bazza

Edited August 8, 2006 by bazza

[steve z]

I was at a doo saturday in mansfield ..the attic ( black bull )..didnt know single tune..all new to me ..i still loved it

So now it sounds like you'r saying your a lower class type of soulie if you like the classics

utter flippin Rubbish

Bazza

Hi Bazza ,loads of hits for an early post of yours on SS.

However the point is..........IF YOU HEAR A TUNE FOR THE FIRST TIME ON A BOOT/PRESSING /CD etc THEN IMHO you are a punter..K.R s term I do like classics ,depending on the tune, BUT NOT played out at the venues I go to....BORING .ATB Steve

[Bazza]

Hi Bazza ,loads of hits for an early post of yours on SS.

However the point is..........IF YOU HEAR A TUNE FOR THE FIRST TIME ON A BOOT/PRESSING /CD etc THEN IMHO you are a punter..K.R s term I do like classics ,depending on the tune, BUT NOT played out at the venues I go to....BORING .ATB Steve

Hi Steve..well i do like to dance ..and with a well known tune ,you get to know the little pauses drum rolls quirky bits...makes it more comfortable to Dance to IMHO.I think many peeps that do much dancing would say the same....

as for hits on the thread...yes quit a few..and to think they closed my first thread on this topic whithin the first 5 mins

Bazza

[Guest Bearsy]

What comes out of the speakers is surely what really matters. And if you can afford to pay bundles for original records does that make you more passionate than someone who can't?

Also, some rare tunes seem to be played by dj's for dj's, not the paying punters they are supposed to be entertaining. And, these tunes can have the dj grinning like a cheshire cat while the punters have all gone to the bar.

I think Cd's are a no no, but with the vinyl - if it sounds good, it is good. And if you get pipped at the post by someone playing your rare tune on bootleg, that is just the same as someone on a £9,000 super bike getting beaten away from the lights by a fast scooter. Touche. It's just funny!!

And, it's not easy to put on a soul night and keep the dance floor packed all night. To do that requires much more passion and effort.

But what do I know???

McGoo

I know your scooter dont beat a £9000 superbike

[Guest Baz]

Hi Steve..well i do like to dance ..and with a well known tune ,you get to know the little pauses drum rolls quirky bits...makes it more comfortable to Dance to IMHO.I think many peeps that do much dancing would say the same....

Bazza

Good post Bazza, when i do dance its very rarely to something new, unless it really grips me, im not a dancer i'll have about 10 or on a good night 20 dances, but still love to sit back and take in newer sounds

[Makemvinyl]

I was at a doo saturday in mansfield ..the attic ( black bull )..didnt know a single tune..all new to me ..i still loved it

So now it sounds like you'r saying your a lower class type of soulie if you like the classics

utter flippin Rubbish

Bazza

Thought Rob Marriott played a cracking set of gems on Saturday inc some rare and some Wigan tunes

and one of his own Classics Jimmy Castor and Make Me

so I was at the same do Saturday and enjoyed a varied set inc Soul time by Shirley Ellis

so your utter Rubish mark dont err compute as the original quote was you dont get to hear many of the big tunes,not only the classics,when you go to local do's and my answer was we hire the better djs to get those tunes played at local nights,

hope that explains all

Doug

[Bazza]

Thought Rob Marriott played a cracking set of gems on Saturday inc some rare and some Wigan tunes

and one of his own Classics Jimmy Castor and Make Me

so I was at the same do Saturday and enjoyed a varied set inc Soul time by Shirley Ellis

so your utter Rubish mark dont err compute as the original quote was you dont get to hear many of the big tunes,not only the classics,when you go to local do's and my answer was we hire the better djs to get those tunes played at local nights,

hope that explains all

Doug

Hi Doug..yes it was a good night enjoyed it..i admit most of the stuff was new to me. i did nip down stairs for half an hour for a bit of a breather it was quite full,,what I was saying was I like to here (new to me stuff ) and I like to hear some of the old classics for different reasons the classics to dance to the newies to listen to ..if you get my drift

Bazza