Venues Value For Money

[Dave Rimmer]

Dave, possibly a silly question but why not drive a car to the venue instead?  £60 petrol as opposed to £134 fares.

 

Two problems, one, I don't own a car, and two, haven't got a licence.

[Pete S]

Two problems, one, I don't own a car, and two, haven't got a licence.

 

Never too late!  I didn't learn til I was 40.  Massive regrets now that I didn't learn earlier.

[Liam2005]

Some DJ's are more than £200 but I would think £100 to £150 is about the norm.  When compared to other scenes and what a DJ puts into getting to where he or she is you are still getting it on the cheap. 

Blimey! back in the 9ts we were paying dj's at the Capitol Soul club £100 a pop. To be honest theres only a few dj's in this country that get paid £200+ (Butch). Most dj's get between £50 and £100, i have done events up and down the country over many years and i can count on one hand promoters paying £100+. Most dj's are out of pocket when Djing (cabs,petrol,time,trains etc). As you know Chalky most of us do it for the love, most dj's in the real world would laugh at what the northern scene pays  .

 

Greg

[The Happy Hooker]

Must give a big rap to Richard and Julie Cryer who run the Eggborough sessions ...........£2.00 entry......... and for a very comfortable venue with Air Conditioning ( are you reading this Mr. Butlins) and as a thank to the people who have supported this event throughout the year, the New Years eve bash is ................................................................ wait for it .............................a Tykes most treasured entry fee..............................................................................NOWT     

 

Take a bow Richard and Julie    

[Len]

Interesting thread this - I remember putting the entrance to The Embankment Club up  to £3.00 some years back, and quite a few people seriously moaned about it.......then headed straight to the record bar!

 

Chalky pointed this out in his earlier post.

 

I really could do with charging £7.00 entrance for my latest venture ('Lennys') but I don't feel as though I can, and everyone who knows me will confirm I am so not interested in the money side of things - But I would like to be able to afford to do things properly (Including paying my D.J's more than I am able to)

 

All the best,

 

Len  

Edited October 13, 2014 by LEN

[Davenpete]

I don't think you can expect to get a professionally run venue on the cheap.

 

It's not so much to enable the promoters to make loads of money (though WHY shouldn't they if they do a good job - were the Torch, Wheel and Wigan not all big money making propositions?) ...but if they're sailing close to the wind financially and they have a couple of bad nights (due to bad weather or venue clashes) they're seriously out of pocket and making substantial losses. I know back when me and Pete were involved in The White Heather at Carlisle, though it was well liked for its music policy by those who went, we only made any money a couple of times and lost A LOT several times.

 

In the past we often used to get offered in free but always turned it down to ensure profits remained sustainable (with the exception of the Ritz guest list because we helped out here and there).

 

Personally I think nighters should be of the order of £15+ to get in - not unreasonable on any level IMO for 8 hours of music that's very expensive to finance as a DJ (I bet the number of OXO spinners who actually really cover the costs of their records can be counted on one hand - at best) - and if it leaves you short of beer money then BLOODY GREAT as far as I'm concerned - the licensing of nighters was one of the worst things to happen in modern times IMO (more gear = more fun for everyone).

 

Dx

Edited October 13, 2014 by DaveNPete

[Guest Garry Huxley]

We have started a monthly soul night in Doncaster "upfront @ the horse & jockey" playing rare and undervalued across the board quality soul.. with cheap bar prices and FREE entry. We're not in it to make any money, just wanted an antedote to the plethora of monthly events in Donny playing the usual stuff we've heard a thousand times...our aim is to attract dj's from Doncaster and south York's (and beyond) who are willing to play for a few beers to the area's knowledgeable real soul crowd..

Admittedly, we're very lucky we've got a great (smallish) room for nothing with an excellent relationship with the owners which allows us the freedom to be a bit self indulgent.

 

Good on you rob sounds just like my cuppa tea (not that horrid Yorkshire stuff PG TIPS FOR ME)I mean the music however I was dancing to jay traynor a couple of months ago hadent heard it in years as I very rarely go in the big rooms as the small venues educate me more and I want to hear what I don't know or those super rare that have not been booted or on cd etc.

KEEP ON KEEPIN ON

(sorry again)

Garry

[Guest Garry Huxley]

Ours is free 3 DJs playing for the love of it

 

Stin 

so long as its OVO and not same old  same old I marked as like

[Guest Garry Huxley]

Two problems, one, I don't own a car, and two, haven't got a licence.

 

good on you dave no car, no licence but what a record box

[Dave Rimmer]

good on you dave no car, no licence but what a record box

Yeah I suppose I'd be driving quite a nice car if I didn't keep buying these pesky round black things

[Chalky]

Blimey! back in the 9ts we were paying dj's at the Capitol Soul club £100 a pop. To be honest theres only a few dj's in this country that get paid £200+ (Butch). Most dj's get between £50 and £100, i have done events up and down the country over many years and i can count on one hand promoters paying £100+. Most dj's are out of pocket when Djing (cabs,petrol,time,trains etc). As you know Chalky most of us do it for the love, most dj's in the real world would laugh at what the northern scene pays  .

 

Greg

Spot on mate, if I did what I've done to make money I'd have been declared declared bankrupt years ago. I can't think of any other walk of life except maybe owning a football club where you do something and arw happy to do it at a cost to yourself.  Again most other dj's on other scenes wouldn't get out of bed for what Northern, Rare and Modern soul dj's are paid.

[Len]

Yeah I suppose I'd be driving quite a nice car if I didn't keep buying these pesky round black things

 

I always presumed you had a really nice car Dave.....

 

 

 

Len  

Edited October 13, 2014 by LEN

[Russoul1]

been joint running "club caliente" Peterborough for over 5 yrs, excellent venue, superb sound system, ovo policy only, across the board, carl fortnum & steve jackson as resident djs all with free entry plus ok bar prices and loads of birthday cake....lol

 

only downside just a hand full of local soulies attend on a regular basis......

[Pilgrimsoul]

We run Soul Spirit in Boston and can absolutely guarantee that we don't do it for the money.If we can cover the costs (which we've always managed to do) then we're happy,if we get a beer out of it we're happy,if we don't we're happy but what I will say is that our music policy is one of 70s onwards and if we had to sell our souls to the devil (motown and northern which are ten a penny) to make ends meet then we would pack it in.Not that I'm having a go at those events that cater for that type of night it's just that we wanted something a bit different and so far touch wood it's working.As someone eluded to in an earlier post we have no control over bar prices but what we do offer is good quality soul music in a really modern and well equipped venue with a great sound system.£5 might sound dear to some but all of the work that goes into putting on a night is never ending and that is for free, (setting up and taking down the equipment),someone sitting on the door all night and making sure that everyone has a great,safe night,flyers and advertising .If we could afford to let everyone in for nothing then we would just for the love of the music but unfortunately we aren't in a position to do that so as long people are getting value for money then I think they're happy to pay to come in and our aim is always to send people home happy and with a spring in their step.

[Len]

Here's a thought......

 

I wonder what the 'Soul Calendar' would look like if to put any event on, you needed to finance it by £1000.00.........Would people's love of it stretch to 'taking risk' ? (Along with the hard work of promoting)

 

Maybe the result of the above would be far fewer events, costing more money to get in - But would that be a bad thing?

 

Len  

Edited October 14, 2014 by LEN

[Steve S 60]

 

Here's a thought......

 

I wonder what the 'Soul Calendar' would look like if to put any event on, you needed to finance it by £1000.00.........Would people's love of it stretch to 'taking risk' ? (Along with the hard work of promoting)

 

Maybe the result of the above would be far fewer events, costing more money to get in - but would that be a bad thing?

 

Len  

 

 

Yes, if past (and present) experience is anything to go by.  In an attempt to recoup their money, many promoters would relax the door policy, probably allowing the local p*ss heads and hand baggers in after they've done their rounds of the local pubs.  It happens now, and with a lot more money at stake it would be tempting for many promoters in what would be classed as a business venture.

[Len]

Yes, if past (and present) experience is anything to go by.  In an attempt to recoup their money, many promoters would relax the door policy, probably allowing the local p*ss heads and hand baggers in after they've done their rounds of the local pubs.  It happens now, and with a lot more money at stake it would be tempting for many promoters in what would be classed as a business venture.

 

Good answer.

 

It's a double edged sword really - At present every pub / club etc are crying out for more customers, so lots are offering their function rooms for free (Good business sense), but the down side of this is what's has been happening these past 10 years or so.

 

Len  

Edited October 14, 2014 by LEN

[Steve S 60]

Good answer.

 

It's a double edged sword really - At present every pub / club etc are crying out for more customers, so lots are offering their function rooms for free (Good business sense), but the down side of this is what's has been happening these past 10 years or so.

 

Len  

 

I think another problem is events have become more genteel affairs as we've all mellowed with age and become a lot more tolerant.  The friendly atmosphere is going to attract more people who aren't necessarily there primarily for the music.  Not saying I'd like to go back to what it was like in the 70's and 80's, but we would have probably booted any handbags off the floor back then.

[Rugby Soul Club]

Yes, if past (and present) experience is anything to go by.  In an attempt to recoup their money, many promoters would relax the door policy, probably allowing the local p*ss heads and hand baggers in after they've done their rounds of the local pubs.  It happens now, and with a lot more money at stake it would be tempting for many promoters in what would be classed as a business venture.

 

We never relaxed our door policy & took our losses on the chin for many years to build what we wanted.

Stuck at it & now break even & that's with almost capacity crowds in.

Very tempted to put the door up to £15 but that would be so that we could pay the DJs more.

Defo a passion not a business. As a business I would hang my head in shame at the profits.

[Guest SteveBev]

been joint running "club caliente" Peterborough for over 5 yrs, excellent venue, superb sound system, ovo policy only, across the board, carl fortnum & steve jackson as resident djs all with free entry plus ok bar prices and loads of birthday cake....lol

 

only downside just a hand full of local soulies attend on a regular basis......

Was about to say the Caliente is free and a very good do. Admittedly, you guys are fortunate you've found a venue where they're happy to let you have it free and they make behind the bar but I still think it's as good a do as the Right Track, Soul Ole in terms of music and bar prices aren't much greater. Been to your last 2 Russ and enjoyed them both so definitely in my list of venues (plus I live round the corner so can walk home!).

 

Maybe the question is try and find venues that aren't doing so well that do have the facilities and are happy to just have bar takings as their reward? There must be some village halls that aren't getting as much use and so would be happy to take cash behind the bar in order to fund themselves? Does it always have to be a back room at a pub? Just questions, I'm sure theres more reasons why not than I can think of. I suppose the other big outlay for those that host nites is DJ's. Unless you have local's who do it for free, getting any 'name' in will cost and so send your expenses up. Don't envy all you guys that organise these nites but I am thankful you do.

 

 In respect to the question posed, £5 in for a night of music I like with like minded people and no worry of trouble is fine by me. At NYE pubs I've walked into all year suddenly want that or more to come in and to be fearful of bumping the wrong person. 5/6 hours for £5 is value to me. Same at Caliente for free is....well, I'm sure you can think of an answer   

Edited October 16, 2014 by SteveBev

[Back Street Blue]

I've had value for money if I've heard the right stuff at the appropriate volume in the right atmosphere with a proper dancefloor (I.e. Dancefloor is big enough and good surface). As a punter the prices and asthetics are less of an issue personally. That said, I'm going to hear quality underplayed ovo in an atmospheric old school style venue with a good dancefloor and mega cheap bar in Sheffield that is now getting the numbers it deserves...for £3.00 on Saturday. Inner Soul...worth a much higher door charge.

[Mellorful]

Last Saturday we went to Stubshaw (Stateside soul) and for £6 we got a plethora of great tunes from 8pm to 4am (less than £1 an hour) and on OVO. The tunes played varied in both style, familiarity and rarity and ought to have satisfied everyone's taste; leaving us plenty of time to dance, drink and chat. We left at 4am feeling well satisfied.

The bar prices were also very reasonable so value for money I would give it top marks. 

[Guest manusf3a]

Two problems, one, I don't own a car, and two, haven't got a licence.

same here

[Philt]

We've been doing Grumpy Soul for just over three years now. Most we've ever 'made', just the once mind, was enough to buy two new styli. We have our own sound system which we've bought over time and the djs all get paid the same. The residents travel from Peterborough and the midlands and we've had a few Scottish lads guesting too; trust me, it's for the love of it all round and we REALLY appreciate the effort everyone makes.

 

Happy to spend our time and money putting it on if it's what people want. We're dead passionate about it, obviously, and Christ knows you've gotta be cos it's bloody hard work. Finances aside, its even hard to relax and enjoy the night itself as you're constantly fretting about whether those who've paid to get in are ... Rooms right, sounds right, no knobheads, dance floors busy, bars not backing-up, bog roll in plentiful supply, what's Fortnum up to ... Actually, on reflection, bloody bumps need feeling 

 

Then you hear Walter and the Admerations  and it's rockin; jobs a good un 

atb

Phil

Edited October 22, 2014 by PhilT

[Frankie M]

We charge £3 OTD at City Centre Soul at the Old Nags Head in Manchester and to be honest its an average price for admission in

our neck of the woods ,am sure with all the competition we are seeing any price increase would be a disaster ,however we always

have a very decent guest we play all on OVO ,its completely ATB and so far so good its worked , its definitely the love and

not the money that most venues exist ,. you just have to see my bank balance for proof positive, those little bits of plastic

just aint cheap anymore ..............

[Betty Bump]

Walton 4/5 Soul Club

£3 on the door

4 Times a year

Every penny goes to charity (apart from £20 which the club charge for the hire of the room) cheap bar Large wooden dance floor

DJ gear is well maintained at mine and Barney's cost.

We have raised over £2000 in the passed 18 months for 6 charities as well as having a great time doing it.

We aint in it to make money, just for the love of it and to make a difference where we can..............

Pay us a visit this Friday for our last one this year.....................................Love Betty xx

P.S. this one is for MENCAP

Edited October 22, 2014 by Betty Bump

[Len]

am sure with all the competition we are seeing any price increase would be a disaster ,

 

I know money is an issue for most of us, but was wondering if this would be true - As in, would an increase actually make people choose elsewhere for a matter of a pound or two?.....Entrance money (even going up to £6.00) is a small percentage of all that goes with a night out.

 

Personally, I would gladly pay £6.00 or £7.00 for a Soul night, and definitely £12.00 for a nighter - I would quibble a bit if they were any higher, but would probably pay £8.00 for a Soul night and £15.00 for an All-nighter, if I had the confidence that it was needed for a particular venue (Trust in the promoters)

 

If I liked a certain night, I most definitely would not choose to go elsewhere just for the sake of paying less entrance money

 

Anyone else think the same?

 

Len  

Edited October 22, 2014 by LEN

[Steve S 60]

I know money is an issue for most of us, but was wondering if this would be true - As in, would an increase actually make people choose elsewhere for a matter of a pound or two?.....Entrance money (even going up to £6.00) is a small percentage of all that goes with a night out.

 

Personally, I would gladly pay £6.00 or £7.00 for a Soul night, and definitely £12.00 for a nighter - I would quibble a bit if they were any higher, but would probably pay £8.00 for a Soul night and £15.00 for an All-nighter, if I had the confidence that it was needed for a particular venue (Trust in the promoters)

 

If I liked a certain night, I most definitely would not choose to go elsewhere just for the sake of paying less entrance money

 

Anyone else think the same?

 

Len  

 

As has been discussed on here in previous posts, many door prices have not gone up in years, or have increased very slightly in relative terms.  The promoter needs to cover his costs, so value for money is the name of the game when choosing venues.  I may be wrong, but many venues are quite happy to host soul events, as what they get for the most part is a mature, well behaved crowd.  This may help when negotiating room costs, security staff etc.

 

Also, memberships are a good idea in my opinion.  Whether free, annual subscription or one off payment, it gives the punter a sense of belonging.  Discounted members rates, newsletters etc would help to justify any fee.

 

I would be happy to pay extra if I was guaranteed a good night, but it is always going to be a balancing act with regards to covering costs and what the punter is prepared to pay.  A full venue with punters paying £5 is better than a half empty venue with punters having paid £8 say.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Steve S 60

[pow wow mik]

have not been to an allniter for years but can agree that this is going to cost more ,but there are loads of free entry events run by genuine soulies where the owners of these venues are quite happy to pay the dj,s/promoters and are happy with the increased bar takings , so how does this square with those venues at the other end of the spectrum ,

don't think comparisons with town centre nightclubs are relevant most soulies I know wouldn't dream of going to such places,.

 

maybe they don't, but i'm assuming that they do go to other places - cinema, theatre, football matches, petrol stations and supermarkets etc. - all of which put have put prices way up since the 90s.

 

Like anything else, value for money is related to the quality of the product; £10 can be an large amount, for a unimgainative night with little usp, or a complete bargain for a great night with great djs. You can't say that any price is expensive or cheap without stating what it is that you're paying for.

 

As for free clubs: i've been going to clubs weekly for 25 years, from raves to r&b pub dos and one thing is constant -

 

if it costs nothing to get in, that's all it's worth. The reasons for this are too complex to go into, but basically: anything worth doing is worth doing to a professional standard and professionals want and deserve autonomy and at least the potential to earn / re-invest.

 

People running lots of dos may well be 'genuine' but that doesn't make them good at running dos, just as lots of djs are 'genuine' music lovers without being good djs.

 

As with anything in life, I'd rather pay a bit more and it be good, or mean something, then a bit less for pale imitations and half-measures.

 

Djing and running clubs are almost the only fields of human enterprise where the general view is that no skills or expertise are required.

 

Capitalist markets always follow these curves - competition is good to an optimum point then creates a saggy belly of superfluous cheap crap.

[Autumnstoned]

maybe they don't, but i'm assuming that they do go to other places - cinema, theatre, football matches, petrol stations and supermarkets etc. - all of which put have put prices way up since the 90s.

 

Like anything else, value for money is related to the quality of the product; £10 can be an large amount, for a unimgainative night with little usp, or a complete bargain for a great night with great djs. You can't say that any price is expensive or cheap without stating what it is that you're paying for.

 

As for free clubs: i've been going to clubs weekly for 25 years, from raves to r&b pub dos and one thing is constant -

 

if it costs nothing to get in, that's all it's worth. The reasons for this are too complex to go into, but basically: anything worth doing is worth doing to a professional standard and professionals want and deserve autonomy and at least the potential to earn / re-invest.

 

People running lots of dos may well be 'genuine' but that doesn't make them good at running dos, just as lots of djs are 'genuine' music lovers without being good djs.

 

As with anything in life, I'd rather pay a bit more and it be good, or mean something, then a bit less for pale imitations and half-measures.

 

Djing and running clubs are almost the only fields of human enterprise where the general view is that no skills or expertise are required.

 

Capitalist markets always follow these curves - competition is good to an optimum point then creates a saggy belly of superfluous cheap crap.

Can't agree that free entry do's are no good. The best soul nights IMO in London when I moved from there July last year are/were all free 99p Soul, Majestic Soul, Soul Syndicate, Masters Of Soul, Downtown Soul. Edit forgot - Filthy Soul - got a feeling there were a couple of others but forgotten the names.

Edited October 22, 2014 by autumnstoned

[Guest]

 Finances aside, its even hard to relax and enjoy the night itself as you're constantly fretting about ...what's Fortnum up to

 

  organising a "singe up", probably

[Guest Garry Huxley]

I  would love to promote a free entry nite where it costs me nothing for the venue and the dj's don't get paid (lots o volunteers) playing ovo but its not gonna happen as the pubs n clubs are too greedy

[ZootSuit]

many,s the time on our travels when we get to the door of a venue with a tenner in my mitts for missis and myself and I have uttered the dreaded Yorkshire war cry AR MUCH ,and then this is usually compounded by sky high bar prices and you need the equivalent of the weekly 40 hours minimum wage to enjoy a night out ,

 

Would like to ask what peoples views are concerning door tariffs and bar prices ?

 

its usually the more of what I consider the more commercial bigger venues that tend to be pricey but are they value for money . there are a couple of high tariff venues not far from me and loads over the hills in injun country (lancs),.

the owners of these establishments not only want a cut of the door takings but also charge to me exhorbitant drinks prices of usually dubious quality beers ,lagers and disgusting dispensed soft drinks .

 

I have come to the conclusion that I no longer want to go to these places, because there are much cheaper venues playing equally or better quality music and the promoters of these are much friendlier and more accessible .

for instance went to a local venue near me last night £4  in, cheap bar ,change from a fiver for 2 drinks , run by people who have been on the scene for years who operate a strict OVO policy, playing  crackin genuine across the board sounds ,

whats your take on this folks ,.

regards B

Towcester, knowlegable crowd, everyone knows everyone, £3 to get in and change from £5 for a couple of f pints, and the bonus...bloody good choons !!!!!

Edited October 26, 2014 by ZootSuit