I don't know if anyone else has had problems but over the last month I've had to return three 45's to the States due to over grading.. some sellers mostly ebay , some discogs  gradings are all over the place..Excellent can mean VG or Absolutely F&*ked.   Paul

I don't buy so many from USA since postal charges went up and the Customs & Excise hit me for VAT a few times. The ones that I have bought have been accurately graded, that's buying from Ebay and Gemm. I look for sellers that mention grading under a bright light or conservatively. It is also helpful when sellers state what their grades mean as this can vary from seller to seller. 

I dont buy records from the USA any more there gradings are a joke,,, look at the " excellent condition slight label wear, the postal prices are to expensive.

  On 17/09/2014 at 15:30, aiden said:

I dont buy records from the USA any more there gradings are a joke,,, look at the " excellent condition slight label wear, the postal prices are to expensive.1410967135815.jpg

Your Right Aiden .. looks just like the crap that dropped onto my Doormat..Amazing

if a record is described as ' ex ' but the record in reality is ' vg ' doesnt that mean its under graded not over graded?

 

i cant work out if my brain is working properly..haha

Over graded to me

I'm preparing a list of 45's for trading, right from here in the good ol' USA...I intend to be honest in my grading. Some of 'em may be G or VG, and I will tell you, straight up. I have always tried to be honest when trading with you guys over there.

 

Best,

 

Mark

Personally i find most u.s sellers are better at grading then u.k. The key to avoid returns is to do your homework and ask  and make sure ex or vg+ is exactly the correct gradings.

Unless its marked M-, irrespective of where the seller is located I now always ask, if there are any pops, crackles or marks that affect playback quality of the record.  That way hopefully they're answer honestly and for me in most cases that's been the case.

I find that what works for me on eBay with accurate grading, is do either of the following

 

1) Ask for an unadulterated MP3 recording of the record if in doubt, a good pair of headphones will sort out the severity of the scuffs and scratches, bearing in mind styrene hiss cannot not be seen on the surface of the record as such, though groove wear can. Styrene is a nightmare at the best of times. A battered vinyl record will sound great whereas styrene can sound rough as hell....

 

2) Once I've bought from a reliable and consistent seller several times, I tend to only buy from them as you know their grading system well. Limiteds you but at least you know you gonna be a happy soul!

 

But, yes must admit grading is subjective, and some people out there need either glasses or hearing aids, or both!

A lot of sellers don't play grade records, and the sound quality is paramount for me. I have been having the same problems as the OP and have now stopped buying altogether.

I agree with Quinvy, I am more concerned how the record sounds on the decks than a few scuffs. The records are 40+ years old so I expect a scuff or two. NM or E+ description from an unknown seller of an item that old invites questions about the legitimacy of the record.

You can have a visually graded E+ but put it on the decks to find it has styrene burn.

For me its all about the music and not necessarily a posh suit.

Also, some of the styrene 45's have such a finely grooved playing surface, it's almost impossible to see tiny scratches. Yet when played, really click loudly. I've had a few that look almost mint, yet click like hell when played.

  On 17/09/2014 at 15:54, jimmy clitheroe said:

Over graded to me

 

Me To!!

Got certain records where the label leaves a little to be desired.  ,but they play really well.With these ones i dont expect to get my money back or make a profit........

Swings and roundabouts i suppose.(Its not just US sellers either.)

Edited September 24, 201410 yr by KevH

  On 24/09/2014 at 13:28, KevH said:

Got certain records where the label leaves a little to be desired.  ,but they play really well.With these ones i dont expect to get my money back or make a profit........

Swings and roundabouts i suppose.(Its not just US sellers either.)

Your right , Ive had some ropey stuff from dealers in the Uk as well..But its expensive to return tracked/signed for to the states , last one   was £9.50 ..You don't get that Back! Cheers Paul

  On 17/09/2014 at 14:22, jimmy clitheroe said:

I don't know if anyone else has had problems but over the last month I've had to return three 45's to the States due to over grading.. some sellers mostly ebay , some discogs  gradings are all over the place..Excellent can mean VG or Absolutely F&*ked.   Paul

 

  On 17/09/2014 at 14:22, jimmy clitheroe said:

I don't know if anyone else has had problems but over the last month I've had to return three 45's to the States due to over grading.. some sellers mostly ebay , some discogs  gradings are all over the place..Excellent can mean VG or Absolutely F&*ked.   Paul

I agree 100% and it seems a recent phenomenon - I have been buying from the USA for 20 years and never had issues - But have had a few recently way way over graded.  e.g. Recently bought a Ann Sexton on Yellow 77 = $60 listed as VG+  When it arrived it was G+. I am getting them the other way too ! last week pleasant surprise...  bought a Benny Troy Demo - $26 listed as VG - it was NM all day... latter is unfortunately rare 

look what the wizard in this tattoo is doing... 

  On 24/09/2014 at 07:51, Hammersoul said:

Personally i find most u.s sellers are better at grading then u.k. The key to avoid returns is to do your homework and ask  and make sure ex or vg+ is exactly the correct gradings.

Agreed!

At least when it comes to CRAIG MOORER and his RECORDS BY MAIL, which has an excellent grading system, that actually differs from the one used in the UK.

Top notch is obviously SS (Still Sealed).

M is not used.

When it says M-, it really IS M-, whereas some UK sellers have overgraded some records for me.

After M- comes VG+ (Very Good+) - EX is not used.

Personally, I still find as a general rule that U.S dealers grade conservatively - more often than not vg graded records drop through the letterbox as Ex or even unplayed, so I'm still nearly always pleasantly surprised!

 

Rich

  On 02/10/2014 at 23:12, Rich Buckley said:

Personally, I still find as a general rule that U.S dealers grade conservatively - more often than not vg graded records drop through the letterbox as Ex or even unplayed, so I'm still nearly always pleasantly surprised!

 

Rich

 

As a general proposition, you're absolutely correct.

 

It's a joke that that the " EX " grade is even a part of the UK system ... not to mention the fact that many UK soul sellers use as their lowest grade "VG" when in fact they should be grading such records as merely Fair or Poor !

 

And the multiple  ++++++++  plusses phenomenon seems to be  particularly prevalent with many sellers in the Uk too ....

Edited October 3, 201410 yr by sunnysoul

  On 02/10/2014 at 20:22, Rubber Soul said:

Agreed!

At least when it comes to CRAIG MOORER and his RECORDS BY MAIL, which has an excellent grading system, that actually differs from the one used in the UK.

Top notch is obviously SS (Still Sealed).

M is not used.

When it says M-, it really IS M-, whereas some UK sellers have overgraded some records for me.

After M- comes VG+ (Very Good+) - EX is not used.

but he always ommits the storage warps......had 5 on the trot..no mention at all

but from a selling point of view... if a record has any mention of vg...buyers seem to want severe discount irrelevent of whether the price is right in the 1st place... and it puts some buyers off... thats why i use ex or +++.... to show its a clean copy despite having being played...if its mint its supposed to be unplayed and you have to play them once to make sure there ok

 

labels scans are always useful too

Edited October 3, 201410 yr by dave pinch

  On 03/10/2014 at 00:43, sunnysoul said:

As a general proposition, you're absolutely correct.

 

It's a joke that that the " EX " grade is even a part of the UK system ... not to mention the fact that many UK soul sellers use as their lowest grade "VG" when in fact they should be grading such records as merely Fair or Poor !

 

And the multiple  ++++++++  plusses phenomenon seems to be  particularly prevalent with many sellers in the Uk too ....

 

No it's not, it's a joke that EX isn't use in USA grading, the leap from VG+ to M- is massive and more or less every time I list on Discogs I have to put is actually EX in the comments.

  On 02/10/2014 at 20:22, Rubber Soul said:

Agreed!

At least when it comes to CRAIG MOORER and his RECORDS BY MAIL, which has an excellent grading system, that actually differs from the one used in the UK.

Top notch is obviously SS (Still Sealed).

M is not used.

When it says M-, it really IS M-, whereas some UK sellers have overgraded some records for me.

After M- comes VG+ (Very Good+) - EX is not used.

 

I don't use M grade either, only M-.  VG+ is a used record though.  Which is why there should always be an EX grade.

  On 02/10/2014 at 20:22, Rubber Soul said:

Agreed!

At least when it comes to CRAIG MOORER and his RECORDS BY MAIL, which has an excellent grading system, that actually differs from the one used in the UK.

He still does have some hiccups, but most of the time he's spot on.  I bought a record from him a few years ago, it was marked as VG+ and the picture and sound clip were both really clean.  When the record arrived the label was marked and there were lots of marks on the wax that affected play. Contacted them, they apologised and offered me a full refund or replacement.  As they admitted that it was their error on the grading, they refunded my return postage, which I think was fair.  Sadly that’s not the case with a lot, but not all record sellers.

Edited October 3, 201410 yr by John Reed

  On 03/10/2014 at 07:05, Pete S said:

I don't use M grade either, only M-.  VG+ is a used record though.  Which is why there should always be an EX grade.

From RBM´s website:

 

M- A near perfect, probably unplayed record.

VG+ Close to like new with only superficial signs of use that don´t affect play.

Only well cared for records will grade out to VG+.

Will satisfy all but the most demanding collector.

  On 03/10/2014 at 05:00, dave pinch said:

but he always ommits the storage warps......had 5 on the trot..no mention at all

Really bad, but I´ve seen several mentions of "warp", "slight warp" or "slight storage warp" on the website.

  On 03/10/2014 at 11:09, Rubber Soul said:

From RBM´s website:

 

M- A near perfect, probably unplayed record.

VG+ Close to like new with only superficial signs of use that don´t affect play.

Only well cared for records will grade out to VG+.

Will satisfy all but the most demanding collector.

 

People in the UK see VG and think 'knackered', simple as that, which is why we use EX.  VG is the new G unfortunately.

The trouble is that i am used to record collector grading / values where vg is valued at 50 % of mint , ex 75 % of mint , if a seller uses vg as his 2nd grade it doesnt always register as i dont go through every sellers listing to see the grade ruling they use.

 

If i see a £50 book priced  45 for sale in vg i automatically think that the guide price for this is £25 , therefore i am not paying top guide price for a 45 in lower condition even if it using a different system

  On 03/10/2014 at 07:05, Pete S said:

No it's not, it's a joke that EX isn't use in USA grading, the leap from VG+ to M- is massive and more or less every time I list on Discogs I have to put is actually EX in the comments.

EX tends to cover a lot of sins though Pete. A bit like stone chip on a car.  I always thought that VG+ was next down from M- but these days a VG+ is usually knackered.

  On 03/10/2014 at 12:33, Quinvy said:

EX tends to cover a lot of sins though Pete. A bit like stone chip on a car.  I always thought that VG+ was next down from M- but these days a VG+ is usually knackered.

 

EX should be blemish free but not unplayed.  EX- one mark not affecting play.

Personally I´ve ever only ordered from Craig Moorer from the US, whereas I´ve ordered from several UK sellers.

My experience is that on average, a record from RBM that´s graded VG+ (=EX+ in the UK, I guess), is at least as good as an average M- I´ve ordered from a few UK sellers...

Then again, in contrast to many others posting here, I lack the experience of buying from various American sellers, perhaps Craig Moerer is way better than the average American seller. 

  On 03/10/2014 at 15:18, Rubber Soul said:

Personally I´ve ever only ordered from Craig Moorer from the US, whereas I´ve ordered from several UK sellers.

My experience is that on average, a record from RBM that´s graded VG+ (=EX+ in the UK, I guess), is at least as good as an average M- I´ve ordered from a few UK sellers...

Then again, in contrast to many others posting here, I lack the experience of buying from various American sellers, perhaps Craig Moerer is way better than the average American seller. 

He is........totally professional. One of the very best.