Never Had It So Good

[Guest Bearsy]

It's all bloody good and some better than others and of a tune hits me where it matters I don't give a shit how many times it's been battered to death or if its the latest tune to be uncovered and after all they was predominately all produced and recorded around the same era.  Being part of the scene for only about 8 years I still have 1000s to discover and I can't wait to hear something else that's new to me and if it hits my soul then all the better.   It's all about opinions and with the brilliant great oldies of back in the day to tunes newly getting their time in the sun then yeah at the right venue with the right djs then for me the scene has never been so good too.  

[Soulboyrecords]

OOOOhhh handbags at 50 paces.

 

Good soul is good soul. My 10 penny worth is that if it were not for the classic oldies venues would be empty. Empty at least of the 50 somethings who spent their youth at the Wheel, Wigan etc. While many of those, me included,  enjoy hearing something new and exciting (As well as Wigan I moved over to the dark side in the 70's - Mecca) most of us in my view want nostalgia and to enjoy 60's oldies or Mecca sounds that can wisk us back to the 'good old days'.

 

So there's room for both in any venue, but if you want to run a 'newie oldie' night all night you are going to have to find a new crowd.

[barney]

well Im firmly in the classic oldies camp , only go to regular venues now unless have heard about a venue by word of mouth that plays decent sets ,if I want to listen to alternative sounds then I go online or listen to some of the many soul radio shows , but for me in the main ,the music that I grew up with , danced to and loved in the late 60,s and early 70,s is what I want to hear ,and don't think it can be bettered ,.

have been into the music since the late 60s and probably just the same as most people who have been on the scene for a long time have developed a fine tuned filtering system which registers what is good ,bad or indifferent and most of the music played at oldies venues does it for me

[Len]

we'll never be cool again.

 

 

Ahem - Speak for yourself Russ! 

 

 

Len

Edited August 28, 2014 by LEN

[Len]

 I don't give a shit how many times it's been battered to death or if its the latest tune to be uncovered

 

Are we all sure about this?

 

An example of an absolutely fantastic record that got 'battered to death'...Point being, over exposure does kill records for some people (unfortunately)

 

Len

 

'Vanguards - Good Times Bad Times'

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMOz8bfzW5U

 

 

Edited August 28, 2014 by LEN

[Len]

.....Actually now I've had a listen again (got reminded of this via Face Book btw)...I wanna hear it again!

 

But you know what I mean......don't ya?

 

Len

Edited August 28, 2014 by LEN

[Guest Bearsy]

Are we all sure about this?

 

An example of an absolutely fantastic record that got 'battered to death'...Point being, over exposure does kill records for some people (unfortunately)

 

Len

 

'Vanguards - Good Times Bad Times'

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMOz8bfzW5U

 

 

Only ever heard this played out a couple of times so its still good to me Len 

 

seriously though we all have tunes we are now maybe a bit tired of hearing even though they was once a joy to hear.

 

We we all have tunes we never tire of hearing too no doubt.

[Guest Bearsy]

I was chatting to Tim Smithers yesterday and I realised that its not the tunes that I'm tired of hearing out all the time it's the a Djs that play them.  Not Tim may I add 

 

Too many events but not enough events....

 

too many Djs and not enough Djs....   If that makes sense 

[Frankie Crocker]

OMG.... There are 10,000,000 better current tunes than Spyder Turner, skipfuls are being found all the time of quality Soul

Listen again soul brother. The drumming in this attains perfection, the melody is brilliant and the vocals exceedingly good - pretty awesome for a common, staple tune but one of many upon which the scene thrived in its first decade.

[Frankie Crocker]

I can start but wouldn't know where to finish.

Prime examples....

United Sounds

Sugar boy & Shades Of Black

Young Mods

Rideout

Emulations

Sag Warfare (the 'arguably' better side)

Salt & Pepper

John Harris

Some current popular tunes here Matt but Butch's playbox contains way more better sounds that have echoed around for 25 plus years. Sure, some half-decent tunes pop up to be spun, but often as a result of their rarity than their musical content. Every era has had its great sounds but the 70's revelations such as the Salvadors, Cecil Washington, Adams Apples, Bobby Paris, Embers, Coasters etc still sound every bit as good 40 years down the road. Every era needs fresh sounds to lift the dancers and the ones you quote are just that in some quarters.

[Quinvy]

I was chatting to Tim Smithers yesterday and I realised that its not the tunes that I'm tired of hearing out all the time it's the a Djs that play them.  Not Tim may I add 

 

Too many events but not enough events....

 

too many Djs and not enough Djs....   If that makes sense 

 

Trouble is Bearsy, the people who have the best records haven't got the time to do Dj spots all over the country, and aren't that interested in doing so. Conversely, the people who push themselves forward at every opportunity, and constantly promote themselves on facebook haven't got the records or the taste.

 

I don't give a **** what anyone says. There IS a finite number of good sixties records.

[Soulboyrecords]

Every venue that has gotten the 'I must play new stuff that's old' syndrome has ended up alienating its regulars and failing. I've said it before but there is room for classic oldies and new old stuff at the same venue but the balance has to be weighted to the classics. Djs who get sniffy about playing richard temple and the like because they were hammered in the early years will disappear up their own rear end. IMHO

[Drewtg]

Really? 

 

I don't think I could chill out to something like The Sherrell Brothers....

 

I would need be climbing over tables to get to the dance floor!

 

Just listened to "The Price", if that's the track you mean. It's nice, but it is not what I'd call a good Northern dance song. It's soul-pack fodder that all collectors had a box full of once upon a time. Nice to listen to, sounds like maybe an Archie Bell or a Philly album track but to play to a room full of dancers? Noooooooooooooo.

[Jordirip]

Just listened to "The Price", if that's the track you mean. It's nice, but it is not what I'd call a good Northern dance song. It's soul-pack fodder that all collectors had a box full of once upon a time. Nice to listen to, sounds like maybe an Archie Bell or a Philly album track but to play to a room full of dancers? Noooooooooooooo.

 

Different rooms different dancers. Sherrel Bros has been a floorpacker for a good while at certain places but you tend not to get the 'i'm a teapot' northern by numbers dance class dancers at those venues and they're not scared of beats that tie your legs in knots. I agree it's not a 'northern' dance sound in the Wigan traditional sense of the term but thankfully there are places that cater for these kinds of sounds and dancers that love 'em.

[Guest eddiep]

Just listened to "The Price", if that's the track you mean. It's nice, but it is not what I'd call a good Northern dance song. It's soul-pack fodder that all collectors had a box full of once upon a time. Nice to listen to, sounds like maybe an Archie Bell or a Philly album track but to play to a room full of dancers? Noooooooooooooo.

 

Hiya,

 

It's not what I would class as a "Northern dance song" either. I never said it was in the first place.

 

It was just an example that was uptempo as opposed to the comment that all the examples in post 3 (and newer stuff of today being played) are just mid-tempo things to listen to after an allnighter. Which they are not. They are played out and they are danced too but obviously not at "Soul" do's you go to. Because I'm guessing...... you go to "Northern Soul" do's?!?

 

I think one of the troubles with this debate is that some people are thinking that anything connected with rare soul is automatically deemed Northern Soul. It's not!

Unfortunately it also appears to me that there is no unified banner that we have or even possibly wave the "Soul Flag" together as so many people wish to keep this pigeon holed mentality and refuse to accept that there is astoundingly good soul music through all the decades from the 60's, right up till today if you dig. Soul Together.....Right On! Lol.

In fact even the title of this web site..."Soul Source" is geared towards "Soul Music" as was Blues & Soul magazine in the 60's/ 70's etc.

If it was called "Northern Soul Source" I could kinda understand the attitude of some on here. But then again....

 

I accept that people don't like everything and all that get's played up and down the country (I don't either) but to dismiss everything that isn't 100% Northern is in my opinion a crying shame. And a loss in education too. 

As I said before....Variety is the spice of life. (Well to me it is  ).

 

I want to sample and enjoy all forms of soul music without barriers, prejudice or limitations on myself.

It's almost like locking your musical senses up behind bars to me if you do. Not my bag of chips I'm afraid!

Edited August 29, 2014 by eddiep

[Pete S]

 

Unfortunately it also appears to me that there is no unified banner that we have or even possibly wave the "Soul Flag" together as so many people wish to keep this pigeon holed mentality and refuse to accept that there is astoundingly good soul music through all the decades from the 60's, right up till today if you dig. Soul Together.....Right On! Lol.

 

 

 

You don't get it.  We have our Northern Soul scene.  We don't want it 'unified' with other types of soul.  It's fine as it is.  If you want an all-encompassing soul scene, that's fine, bring Northern into it, but don't try and water down the Northern scene with alien types of music because it's not wanted, it's fine as it is, and only possibly 5% of all people will be into it.  There's a time and place for all music, enjoy it there but why try to bring it to people who have no interest in it - you might as well be trying to get people to listen to bhangra.

[Garethx]

I think the very most interesting point made in the huge, labyrinthine thread as reaction to the last BBC documentary was Kegsy's point about Wigan being the scene's only truly 'pivotal' venue. Quoted below:

 

"I'm not sure what you mean by pivotal, the only one I would call pivotal would be Wigan
because it completed altered the scene with the mass influx of people who didn't know the
first thing about SOUL music. Lets face it if your introduction to the music was Javells, Nosmo King or
Wigan's Chosen Few its hardly a good grounding.
 
Contrary to popular opinion the scene was/is, before and after Wigan, a scene where
people went to dance to SOUL music.
Contrary to popular opinion the scene was never just about 100mph up-tempo stompers, although when coupled
with a soulful vocal they can take some beating.
Many records played at Wigan diluted the soul content at the expense of the stomping beat.
 
Cleethorpes Pier managed to get the mix between 60s and 70s releases just about right 
so it provided a venue where the people who were into SOUL music could go, and not
just listen to the 100mph stuff. It combined the best of the Mecca and Wigan so at
the time it was pivotal IMHO. Many people at the time were royally pissed off with the Wigan/Mecca war 
and just ignored both by going to Cleethorpes, which had taken up the gauntlet of the true
underground SOUL scene.
There are times when I wish Dave Godin hadn't bothered to coin the phrase Northern Soul, because
for some people, it put more emphasis on the beat than the soulful content of the music."

 

To me that's the crux of this question too. 

[jocko]

 

You don't get it.  We have our Northern Soul scene.  We don't want it 'unified' with other types of soul.  It's fine as it is.  If you want an all-encompassing soul scene, that's fine, bring Northern into it, but don't try and water down the Northern scene with alien types of music because it's not wanted, it's fine as it is, and only possibly 5% of all people will be into it.  There's a time and place for all music, enjoy it there but why try to bring it to people who have no interest in it - you might as well be trying to get people to listen to bhangra.

 

SO if you like it it's Northern, but if you don't its not. People shouldn't have a go at you for not liking what was played on Northern scene for years, but you can have a go at people for liking it. Hmm hypocrisy stinks. What happened to if its played on the Northern scene its Northern Soul, whether it be pop, pish or bhangra. Hasn't that been your stance when records of your era, a small period over 30years ago lets not forget, have been criticised. Whats different to the records post that period.

Noones forcing you to like it, however no matter how far you throw your toys, or enlist a whole load of people who missed over 30 years of the scenes evolution, it doesn't change they are valid Northern scene plays.

Argue the merit of these records, and their inclusion indeed, and like I did in the second half of the nineties and since in reality, excuse your absence from the scene because you think they are pish. But saying they are not Northern because they do not fit your narrow description, despite them been played regularly on the scene, goes against everything you have said in the past.

Its not for you, or for me in some cases, although the list above are definitely for me, but thats a whole different argument.

I love the fact that someone on here finally shows some unbridled enthusiasm and enjoyment in the music and the scene, and he is shot down for his enthusiasm, rather than just have a good debate on the music.

I have said it before but thank f**k the scene was so small during my time, its what made it so great obviously.

[Pete S]

 

 

SO if you like it it's Northern, but if you don't its not. People shouldn't have a go at you for not liking what was played on Northern scene for years, but you can have a go at people for liking it. Hmm hypocrisy stinks. What happened to if its played on the Northern scene its Northern Soul, whether it be pop, pish or bhangra. Hasn't that been your stance when records of your era, a small period over 30years ago lets not forget, have been criticised. Whats different to the records post that period.

Noones forcing you to like it, however no matter how far you throw your toys, or enlist a whole load of people who missed over 30 years of the scenes evolution, it doesn't change they are valid Northern scene plays.

Argue the merit of these records, and their inclusion indeed, and like I did in the second half of the nineties and since in reality, excuse your absence from the scene because you think they are pish. But saying they are not Northern because they do not fit your narrow description, despite them been played regularly on the scene, goes against everything you have said in the past.

Its not for you, or for me in some cases, although the list above are definitely for me, but thats a whole different argument.

I love the fact that someone on here finally shows some unbridled enthusiasm and enjoyment in the music and the scene, and he is shot down for his enthusiasm, rather than just have a good debate on the music.

I have said it before but thank f**k the scene was so small during my time, its what made it so great obviously.

 

So you think if a record is played on the Northern Soul scene, it's Northern Soul.

Sean Chapman plays a vocal version of Double Barrel at Stoke.

So that's now Northern Soul is it.

Russ played Al Capone at Wigan.  Is that Northern Soul?

Apart from that, I haven't got a clue what you're talking about, and I'd like you to fill in the gaps since 1974 where I've had an "absence from the scene" seeing as you seem to know things about me that I don't know myself.

[Pete S]

 

 

SO if you like it it's Northern, but if you don't its not. People shouldn't have a go at you for not liking what was played on Northern scene for years, but you can have a go at people for liking it. Hmm hypocrisy stinks. What happened to if its played on the Northern scene its Northern Soul, whether it be pop, pish or bhangra. Hasn't that been your stance when records of your era, a small period over 30years ago lets not forget, have been criticised. Whats different to the records post that period.

Noones forcing you to like it, however no matter how far you throw your toys, or enlist a whole load of people who missed over 30 years of the scenes evolution, it doesn't change they are valid Northern scene plays.

Argue the merit of these records, and their inclusion indeed, and like I did in the second half of the nineties and since in reality, excuse your absence from the scene because you think they are pish. But saying they are not Northern because they do not fit your narrow description, despite them been played regularly on the scene, goes against everything you have said in the past.

Its not for you, or for me in some cases, although the list above are definitely for me, but thats a whole different argument.

I love the fact that someone on here finally shows some unbridled enthusiasm and enjoyment in the music and the scene, and he is shot down for his enthusiasm, rather than just have a good debate on the music.

I have said it before but thank f**k the scene was so small during my time, its what made it so great obviously.

 

Missing the point as ever, the problem is you think you have great taste in music, whereas I know I have 

anyway as you are getting personal yet again, I'd best not read any more as I'd rather not get into a series of public arguments again

[Guest eddiep]

You don't get it.  We have our Northern Soul scene.  We don't want it 'unified' with other types of soul.  It's fine as it is.  If you want an all-encompassing soul scene, that's fine, bring Northern into it, but don't try and water down the Northern scene with alien types of music because it's not wanted, it's fine as it is, and only possibly 5% of all people will be into it.  There's a time and place for all music, enjoy it there but why try to bring it to people who have no interest in it - you might as well be trying to get people to listen to bhangra.

 

Pete I'm not trying to suggest that the "Northern Soul Scene" be diluted, watered down, altered or touched in any way.

Once again I have not even said anything like that and my comments are being misread again!

 

I love soul music. I ve got a badge to say I do!

And the Northern scene was what got me into this whole world in the first place as a wide eyed kid of 13. And it's never left me since in 34 years!

All I am saying is that the current trend in seeking out and discovering other sounds by black American musicians and singers is a part of this journey that is open to us all. Whether we chose to move on further than the1960's in our passion and educate ourselves in soul music's history is up to the individual.

I'm not critisisng anyone if they don't!

It's their choice and ultimately their decision but don't lecture me on how exclusive and hallowed the "Northern Soul" scene is when it's been milked dry by the likes of "Big Name D.J's" of the past to line their pockets and increase the bank account levels, used as a media tool to sell fried chicken and cat food and even pushed on to the shelves of Tesco's in the form of Northern Soul's Greatest Hits compilation C.D.'s!

It's not underground. It's not a secret nocturnal sub-culture anymore and it essentially is a nostalgia trip for loads of people.

In fact it's almost getting like a Saga holiday knees up that I have witnessed at some events!

 

If your not willing to venture into the possibility of recognising the talent and artistry of soul music from a later period that can equal or surpass music from an earlier period that isn't just a "four on the floor stomper" then it's a shame in my opinion.

I find it hard to accept that anyone can dismiss other styles of soul music as inferior because it doesn't fit into the "Northern Soul" style scheme of things.

It's ridiculous!

 

There's room for everyone's taste of Soul music all over the country. If you enjoy only "Northern Soul" then go to a "Northern Soul" do and bloody well enjoy it.

If you enjoy bahngra (soul?? new one on me)     ...enjoy that too!

[Pete S]

Pete I'm not trying to suggest that the "Northern Soul Scene" be diluted, watered down, altered or touched in any way.

Once again I have not even said anything like that and my comments are being misread again!

 

I love soul music. I ve got a badge to say I do!

And the Northern scene was what got me into this whole world in the first place as a wide eyed kid of 13. And it's never left me since in 34 years!

All I am saying is that the current trend in seeking out and discovering other sounds by black American musicians and singers is a part of this journey that is open to us all. Whether we chose to move on further than the1960's in our passion and educate ourselves in soul music's history is up to the individual.

I'm not critisisng anyone if they don't!

It's their choice and ultimately their decision but don't lecture me on how exclusive and hallowed the "Northern Soul" scene is when it's been milked dry by the likes of "Big Name D.J's" of the past to line their pockets and increase the bank account levels, used as a media tool to sell fried chicken and cat food and even pushed on to the shelves of Tesco's in the form of Northern Soul's Greatest Hits compilation C.D.'s!

It's not underground. It's not a secret nocturnal sub-culture anymore and it essentially is a nostalgia trip for loads of people.

In fact it's almost getting like a Saga holiday knees up that I have witnessed at some events!

 

If your not willing to venture into the possibility of recognising the talent and artistry of soul music from a later period that can equal or surpass music from an earlier period that isn't just a "four on the floor stomper" then it's a shame in my opinion.

I find it hard to accept that anyone can dismiss other styles of soul music as inferior because it doesn't fit into the "Northern Soul" style scheme of things.

It's ridiculous!

 

There's room for everyone's taste of Soul music all over the country. If you enjoy only "Northern Soul" then go to a "Northern Soul" do and bloody well enjoy it.

If you enjoy bahngra (soul?? new one on me)     ...enjoy that too!

 

Well if you listen to my Mecca and Cleethorpes and 70's podcasts you'll see I don't dismiss every other type of soul music, I just don't see how a deep soul record could fit into a northern night?

[Guest eddiep]

Well if you listen to my Mecca and Cleethorpes and 70's podcasts you'll see I don't dismiss every other type of soul music, I just don't see how a deep soul record could fit into a northern night?

 

Pete, it wouldn't. And to be fair a Northern stomper wouldn't fit into a deep soul night either...

 

Essentially we all like soul music yes?

 

The bottom line is everyone has tastes that vary. If people only like one type of sub-genre then why go to events that play a mixed bag of across the board stuff and then moan about it?

There's so many events on now days that it shouldn't be hard to find a dedicated event for Northern fans, Crossover fans, R&B fans, bahnga fans!

 

My thoughts are still that the original list of tunes that started this post are great. They are rare and collectable.

And to this worn out body that's hit the floor for 30 odd years they are essentially dancable too.

 

That ticks all the boxes for me.

[Davenpete]

I think many people with their own personal musical taste axes to grind (ie Deep/Slow soul fans) are making points that are irrelevant to the original question/post which is specifically talking about music AT VENUES on the (Northern) Soul scene.

Dx

[Garethx]

In a way it is true to state that we've never had it so good. The sheer amount of music available to play is so much greater than it's ever been before. Of course the turnover and quality of newies will never be what it was forty years ago. That's inevitable for a scene based on vintage music with an essentially finite supply. The curve of discovery is fixed. Complicating that is the fact that people join the scene at all points within its history. One man's newie is anothers tired oldie.

 

To me the amount of enjoyment you get out of Northern is always directly related to the effort you put in. If you're at the coalface, travelling to allnighters, digging for new records, dancing a lot, you're going to enjoy it all far more than just taking an interest in the scene from an online stance.

 

Last allnighter I went to (July 100 Club) was as good as ever in all respects except for the record bar area. Given that everyone seems to wheel and deal online now that's probably inevitable.

[jocko]

 

Missing the point as ever, the problem is you think you have great taste in music, whereas I know I have 

anyway as you are getting personal yet again, I'd best not read any more as I'd rather not get into a series of public arguments again

 

I am answering your getting personal at others with your petulance and your "we don't want" it, while some people obviously do want it, while writing out relevant parts of the scenes history. And you dictating what is Northern despite you getting stroppy when people do the same. I never understand it, you can very eloquently argue why the music is pish, so why resort to that. As I keep saying, people just want to change history, no idea why.

I haven't said anything about personal taste, or even liking any of it, just pointing out that calling it not Northern just because you don't like it and have got all stroppy about someone daring to express an opinion, is more than a little hypocritical.

Matts records are all Northern, like it or not, which he was expressing a refreshing joy about, while we bicker like old men over our respective periods of the scene, online, with no intention of participating in the scene. Amazing really.

Anyway, as usual its becoming tangent city, so I am going to do something to save the world. Or drink myself into a gin jelly stupor.

Edited August 29, 2014 by jocko

[jocko]

 

I think many people with their own personal musical taste axes to grind (ie Deep/Slow soul fans) are making points that are irrelevant to the original question/post which is specifically talking about music AT VENUES on the (Northern) Soul scene.

Dx

 

Really? I just see people debating about what is Northern, underneath it all, yet again, despite that not being the opening posters intention. Do you want to highlight deep soul people grinding axes?

[Davenpete]

Not particularly - was just commenting in relation to people getting off-topic rather than talking about what's being played at venues.

Dx

[Winnie :-)]

I don't really get the argument, if it's played on the northern scene then it's northern, whether I like it or not. It may not all fit my blinkered view bought about by my first dalliance in 74-77, but I'm willing enough to give it a listen, and dance to it. In my view the music was generally better in my youth, but somebody who came into it later and went to different venues to me, will have a different opinion. Nobody's right, nobody's wrong, it's a point that can't be proven because we're all looking at it from personal taste. 

[Labeat]

A damn good night to me is the top end Northern.... Sonny Fishback, Jimmy Gresham, Senator Jones, Lester Tipton etc etc, plus the Northern R&B, Northern Funk

Up-tempo 70's and a sprinkling of Modern dance tunes..... if only there were regular mixes like this lot.... perfecto!

[Guest Bearsy]

Trouble is Bearsy, the people who have the best records haven't got the time to do Dj spots all over the country, and aren't that interested in doing so. Conversely, the people who push themselves forward at every opportunity, and constantly promote themselves on facebook haven't got the records or the taste.

 

I don't give a **** what anyone says. There IS a finite number of good sixties records.

 

Yep i know what you mean and the best sets I have heard are from djs that don't dj often if at all nowadays..  

[Guest Carl Dixon]

Being no expert, but wasn't the side step away from progressive new 'soul' sounds the reason we have the term northern soul today? Individuals simply didn't want the funk or 12" records creeping in and damaging the fundamentals of real studios, with real people making real music without the use of the 'pitch' bend, midi or a 5 pin din plugs! I would like to say I use whatever technology of the day is available for my song writing and production, but in my heart the 1960's sound and early Philly productions wipe the floor. 

 

I have the remit from 'Kool and the gangs' music publishers for song writing (which I may be doing with a co writer soon). They are after new songs that attract new fans whist keeping existing ones happy. Their list of instruments to be used on the songs: drums, guitars, bass, horns, synth! By definition of time or instrumentation whatever this song will be whether written by me or others it will not tick the boxes on here...will it?

 

Pete S, I respect your absolute conviction with this and I learn things from these debates. It makes me always consider my next song/style because I believe there is a niche market that may embrace what I do, because I have conviction too. Now I want to write a song, have a hit, make some money so I can do it properly in a studio with arrangers, musicians etc....

 

Talking of which my current production has LA drums, bass guitar, 3 x guitars and 6 horns. I cannot afford real strings but could overdub a re mix in future if sales were good. Total income for two tracks I wrote and released last year (Libby/Santa let's leave it at that/The Delgonives) - less than $10. My wife makes more selling domestics on Ebay ha ha.

[Guest Bearsy]

I don't really get the argument, if it's played on the northern scene then it's northern, whether I like it or not. It may not all fit my blinkered view bought about by my first dalliance in 74-77, but I'm willing enough to give it a listen, and dance to it. In my view the music was generally better in my youth, but somebody who came into it later and went to different venues to me, will have a different opinion. Nobody's right, nobody's wrong, it's a point that can't be proven because we're all looking at it from personal taste. 

Amen 

[Frankie Crocker]

A damn good night to me is the top end Northern.... Sonny Fishback, Jimmy Gresham, Senator Jones, Lester Tipton etc etc, plus the Northern R&B, Northern Funk

Up-tempo 70's and a sprinkling of Modern dance tunes..... if only there were regular mixes like this lot.... perfecto!

I was with you until the words Northern Funk popped up... Are we to now assume this is a new genre as opposed to the funkier Northern tunes that latter day experimentalists have been pulling out of 70's soul packs that they couldn't be bothered to open back then? The odd RnB is fine, the occasional crossover sound too but what about the newies that keep the scene buzzing. Bottom line is it must be soulful dance music, preferably of the hard to find variety.

[Labeat]

I was with you until the words Northern Funk popped up... Are we to now assume this is a new genre as opposed to the funkier Northern tunes that latter day experimentalists have been pulling out of 70's soul packs that they couldn't be bothered to open back then? The odd RnB is fine, the occasional crossover sound too but what about the newies that keep the scene buzzing. Bottom line is it must be soulful dance music, preferably of the hard to find variety.

 

Funk edged Northern.... to be precise, sorry. It's what we hear at Gloucester, Walsall Wood etc

[Russ Vickers]

Just because a record is played on the NS Scene it doesn't make it a NS record.  When it becomes excepted on the scene makes it a NS record.  The Northern Soul scene isnt a bunch of cynical has beens re living thier youth after a 20 year or so break on some sort of twisted nostalgia trip, where he who shouts loudest & longest is right.  

 

What went soooo wrong, that this twisted version has become the norm for many & the few who have truly kept to the original ethos become ridiculed & sneered upon.

 

You f*ckers can say what you like, but I'm still part of an underground, vibrant & exciting dance scene, where new & lesser played records still ram dance floors & make going out all night worth while, when on the way home the chords of some new sound are still ringing around your head & your desperate to know what it was...

 

The sooner the term NORTHERN SOUL is dropped the better, cos what some of you are into, is about as far away as you can get from what it was all about for me n many others, who continue to try to keep it real in the face of over whelming  odds....Here's just one example of a DJ/collector who is smashing the place up....listen & weep you boring old has beens, why not actually get out, get off ya tits & dance, instead of judging something you no longer understand from behind a key board..... 

 

https://www.mixcloud.com/misterfish/the-rare-soul-all-night-session-summer-2014/

Edited August 29, 2014 by Russ Vickers

[Pete S]

Just because a record is played on the NS Scene it doesn't make it a NS record.  When it becomes excepted on the scene makes it a NS record.  The Northern Soul scene isnt a bunch of cynical has beens re living thier youth after a 20 year or so break on some sort of twisted nostalgia trip, where he who shouts loudest & longest is right.  

 

What went soooo wrong, that this twisted version has become the norm for many & the few who have truly kept to the original ethos become ridiculed & sneered upon.

 

You f*ckers can say what you like, but I'm still part of an underground, vibrant & exciting dance scene, where new & lesser played records still ram dance floors & make going out all night worth while, when on the way home the chords of some new sound are still ringing around your head & your desperate to know what it was...

 

Here's just one example of a DJ/collector who is smashing the place up....listen & weep you boring old has beens, why not actually get out, get off ya tits & dance, instead of judging something you no longer understand from behind a key board..... 

 

https://www.mixcloud.com/misterfish/the-rare-soul-all-night-session-summer-2014/

 

Yes that's very responsible, parent of two young children going out taking drugs, that's probably why you think the music is so good, try going straight.

[Gogger]

Just because a record is played on the NS Scene it doesn't make it a NS record.  When it becomes excepted on the scene makes it a NS record.  The Northern Soul scene isnt a bunch of cynical has beens re living thier youth after a 20 year or so break on some sort of twisted nostalgia trip, where he who shouts loudest & longest is right.  

 

What went soooo wrong, that this twisted version has become the norm for many & the few who have truly kept to the original ethos become ridiculed & sneered upon.

 

You f*ckers can say what you like, but I'm still part of an underground, vibrant & exciting dance scene, where new & lesser played records still ram dance floors & make going out all night worth while, when on the way home the chords of some new sound are still ringing around your head & your desperate to know what it was...

 

The sooner the term NORTHERN SOUL is dropped the better, cos what some of you are into, is about as far away as you can get from what it was all about for me n many others, who continue to try to keep it real in the face of over whelming  odds....Here's just one example of a DJ/collector who is smashing the place up....listen & weep you boring old has beens, why not actually get out, get off ya tits & dance, instead of judging something you no longer understand from behind a key board..... 

 

https://www.mixcloud.com/misterfish/the-rare-soul-all-night-session-summer-2014/

kinel russ , bit strong , or maybe not 

[Russ Vickers]

Just trying to be honest, I love y'all, dont wanna fight, just wanna get a little voice heard....

[Russ Vickers]

Yes that's very responsible, parent of two young children going out taking drugs, that's probably why you think the music is so good, try going straight.

I do...& you dont have to do anything that you dont want to, but dont judge if you havnt experienced the records in their natural environment...

 

Best Russ 

[Pete S]

I do...& you dont have to do anything that you dont want to, but dont judge if you havnt experienced the records in their natural environment...

 

Best Russ 

 

And after I wrote that, I thought yeah, I'll sit here at home, do my own mix, while drinking 6 pints of cider and smoking 20 fags...I'd be better off doing 'the other'!

[barney]

Just because a record is played on the NS Scene it doesn't make it a NS record.  When it becomes excepted on the scene makes it a NS record.  The Northern Soul scene isnt a bunch of cynical has beens re living thier youth after a 20 year or so break on some sort of twisted nostalgia trip, where he who shouts loudest & longest is right.  

 

What went soooo wrong, that this twisted version has become the norm for many & the few who have truly kept to the original ethos become ridiculed & sneered upon.

 

You f*ckers can say what you like, but I'm still part of an underground, vibrant & exciting dance scene, where new & lesser played records still ram dance floors & make going out all night worth while, when on the way home the chords of some new sound are still ringing around your head & your desperate to know what it was...

 

The sooner the term NORTHERN SOUL is dropped the better, cos what some of you are into, is about as far away as you can get from what it was all about for me n many others, who continue to try to keep it real in the face of over whelming  odds....Here's just one example of a DJ/collector who is smashing the place up....listen & weep you boring old has beens, why not actually get out, get off ya tits & dance, instead of judging something you no longer understand from behind a key board..... 

we just grew up and I for one don't care for the great majority of what you call new sounds and prefer to listen to the music I grew up with and some of the great tunes that have been unearthed since the mid 70s when I dropped out to start nest buildingt and embark on a career,. never left the music , do listen to other sounds but prefer my music undiluted classic northern when I go out ,.its all about individual taste Russ and each to their own , do know we have crossed swords in the past Russ , but aint as consumed with it as I was a few years ago , theres real life and death taking place out in the world you know .

Edited August 29, 2014 by barney

[Russ Vickers]

 

 

I know I'm in Iraq...

[Quinvy]

I know I'm in Iraq...

Touché mate.

[Labeat]

 

 

 

I know I'm in Iraq...

 

I know I'm in Iraq...

You see Russ, you no nowt about life&death being in Iraq ???? Hope your well mate

[Frankie Crocker]

Just because a record is played on the NS Scene it doesn't make it a NS record.  When it becomes excepted on the scene makes it a NS record.  The Northern Soul scene isnt a bunch of cynical has beens re living thier youth after a 20 year or so break on some sort of twisted nostalgia trip, where he who shouts loudest & longest is right.  

 

What went soooo wrong, that this twisted version has become the norm for many & the few who have truly kept to the original ethos become ridiculed & sneered upon.

 

You f*ckers can say what you like, but I'm still part of an underground, vibrant & exciting dance scene, where new & lesser played records still ram dance floors & make going out all night worth while, when on the way home the chords of some new sound are still ringing around your head & your desperate to know what it was...

 

The sooner the term NORTHERN SOUL is dropped the better, cos what some of you are into, is about as far away as you can get from what it was all about for me n many others, who continue to try to keep it real in the face of over whelming  odds....Here's just one example of a DJ/collector who is smashing the place up....listen & weep you boring old has beens, why not actually get out, get off ya tits & dance, instead of judging something you no longer understand from behind a key board..... 

 

https://www.mixcloud.com/misterfish/the-rare-soul-all-night-session-summer-2014/

Russ, you need to go out more often and release that pent-up energy. Now, if we drop the term Northern Soul, what are we gonna put on the flyers that litter the tables of the underground clubs?

[Guest Byrney]

Hillarious that there's many out there who wouldn't consider the Young Mods or John Harris to be Northern but would Condition Red or David and the Giants. 

 

The thread started off with best of intentions, quite uplifting I thought but as often happens ends up with us being told what Northern Soul is: usually that which fits the Wigan template. 

 

Think I'll give this a miss now 

[pow wow mik]

I dont understand why Matt's post has caused so much outrage, although I think there's a few daily mail-style professionally outraged types around just looking for things to be outraged about.

he didnt say that, generally, things were better than ever, that YOU were happier than ever, or that this year's discoveries are better than 1973's, or 1982's, or whatever...that would be absurd, and he's a sensible lad.

logically, so therefore in any way that matters, he's absolutely correct : musically speaking, we can't possibly have had it so good.

if one more great tune is danced to than last year, then in one respect at least, this year is better.

We can listen / dance to everything that they had in the 70s (and we do), plus everything discovered since...I'm afraid that is irrefutable .

If traditional style northern anthems are your bag...great: loads of nights for you playing that stuff. You like all types of soul mixed together? You got that too. You like just midtempo crossover from 1969-1973, I'm in no kind of doubt that there's just that type of night for you...if not I'm sure you'll be putting one on.

so there's only more music, more choice...if you wanted to you could do the best set ever off youtube rips while partying in a hot tub....you cannot argue with the fact that we've never had it so good.

apart from the logical truth of the issue, it could be fair for someone...like Matt, or me...to say that it really never has been better.

This is a site for soul people, not just northern soul people, and some of us soul people just do not see the pinnacle of soul music as high energy 70s style northern soul anthems, and it's our right to do so, or do not so... In fact, some of us find some of them a bit poppy sounding. I do.I think quite a lot of them are shit.

if we were starting again in 1970, and I stumbled accross a warehouse of soul records, I really would leave a lot of what are now regarded as northern classics, and take stuff like that crazy boco record, I honestly would. You cant say my taste is worse because of this fact, like some bullying mob-rule.

the younger people on the various strands of the soul scene have different taste, they would make different classics to the northern scene's, they might not care where funky edged soul stops and funk starts, or where r&b stops and soul starts...

i'm one of them and i dont. I hear soul in jimmy ricks and jimmy bo horne and i'll decide for myself. And i'm happy that, unlike in 1973 or whatever, i can go out and hear either, or ideally, both on the same night.

Not even gonna plug the pow wow club tnat's on tomorrow night at bidds in stoke, rocking exactly this ethos, that's how righteous i am

;-)s

Edited August 29, 2014 by pow wow mik

[Mark S]

Loved the excitement of the early days of the scene and hearing new sounds each week a lot of those seminal tunes  some 40+ years on still  never fail to get me going .

 Love hearing new tunes and over the years have heard some cracking stuff but not as excitable as I used to be does,nt mean however that they are not as good just hearing them in a different era .

 We have never had it so good the accessebility  of sounds now is staggering and I am overwhelmed by new to my ears tunes the web has played a huge part in that and of course this site

[barney]

I know I'm in Iraq...

cheers Russ

kinda thought you would be out there somewhere from past posts ,. hence the quote ,.

keep safe and KTF