Dumb Question- Sound Of 45's

[Elvisluvs]

I have listened to some of the 60s soul 45's- to my ears they tend to have a bit of an unrefined sound. Usually it comes across as a bit too much- typically with vocals and horns. Is this how everyone is hearing this- or did I listen to too many lps? NOT trolling- just wondering if I need a hearing test  A good example is the youtube clip of Paul Sindab's Do Watcha song. Thanks-m

[Peter99]

elvisluvs, on 18 Aug 2014 - 7:47 PM, said:

I have listened to some of the 60s soul 45's- to my ears they tend to have a bit of an unrefined sound. Usually it comes across as a bit too much- typically with vocals and horns. Is this how everyone is hearing this- or did I listen to too many lps? NOT trolling- just wondering if I need a hearing test  A good example is the youtube clip of Paul Sindab's Do Watcha song. Thanks-m

Yep - unrefined, raw, full of integrity. That's what makes em so special. Before all the new recording wizardry came in and sanitised everything. Don't forget as well that lots of this music was recorded on very tight budgets.

 

Peter

[Soulstu]

Hi Elvis,

 

I reckon there are a few reasons they sound like that - There'll be more knowledgable folk along in a while.

 

As aspiring hit makers these singles were recorded to sound good on a small tranny radio - so were mixed quite aggressively. Horns, percussion and vocals were always pushed up high and pretty much almost into the red.

 

However - they're supposed to sound like that - these guys knew what they were doing!!...and don't they sound good through some big speakers in a hot, sweaty club!!!!

[Soulstu]

Beat me to it Nice!

[Godzilla]

No, he's right. Soul records are horrible. As are funk, reggae, Latin, garage, R&B, rockabilly, jazz, gospel etc. It wasn't really until the 1980s and the likes of Stock Aitkin and Waterman that records started sounding half decent...

 

Seriously though, there's a hell of a lot of difference between listening vinyl on an anywhere near reasonable turntable and listening to sh*tty compressed youtube files, for a start.

[Peter99]

SoulStu, on 18 Aug 2014 - 8:04 PM, said:

Beat me to it Nice!

Evening Stu

 

How's things Sir?

 

Nice

 

[Soulstu]

Hi Pete, you went a bit off topic there for someone on the 'site team' (get you!) - I'm top hole thank you mate!

 

Anyway Elvis, I guess the punchiness of mono 'helps' too, as does the mastering and pressing stage.

I notice a lot of re-issued tracks (from the masters) on CD compilations can sound a bit flat.

'You're Ready Now' by Frankie Valli is a good example of that - My Smash original sounds FANTASTIC, but I've got a stereo version on a re-issue CD that sounds so weedy I can't listen to it.

So I guess it's a combination of all these factors that, when combined, infuse that little bit of magic into these wonderful records.

[Mach]

 Some Elvis songs have the same traits 

[Soulstu]

Also this is not a dumb question Elvisluvs, these questions are great for tickling the old musical funny bone and making us all think and re-listen to our music. Hope we get some real insight from the 'big guys' - how about it Lorraine? RobbK?

[pow wow mik]

I would sum it up like this.

we'd rather listen to someone sing or play with feeling and character and it be a bit unrefined than listen to something with all the feeling polished off.

something like james lately - tears running and falling... it's like being in the room with the guy, and he just starts singing what he wants to say.

for me there's an optimum point between production and expression achieved on lots of 60s soul records like gene toones for example, but for pure soul music, the less interference between the soul and the stylus the better.

if you like polish, try some steely dan.

[Prophonics 2029]

It's simples..... Your playing the music in stereo when it should be played in mono...ok it's not as stereo or as deep as in front to back but that's how it was punched on to the discs.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Prophonics 2029

[Quinvy]

I got back into collecting through buying the Goldmine Cd's. When I eventually got my hands on the original vinyl, I couldn't believe how much better they sounded. Some of the Cd tracks are even recorded at the wrong speed.

 

When the digitally remastered Cd's came out I didn't like the sound at all. And when you play a stereo record, the drop in volume and power is huge.

 

Give me mono vinyl every time.

[Cutdown69]

Vinyl hits the spot, the more raw the better...although bum notes p*ss me off (more prevalent with Ja recordings...come on guys put the spliff down and sort it out, give the bass player a cue! - as they look at me with their rude bwoy blaad claat eyes...actually never mind, leave the bum notes in fellas if ya want)

 

The Paul Sindab Do whatcha wanna do tune is a fine example when the bass rolls in on the chorus...I doubt you can feel that on youtube

[Elvisluvs]

I had my doubts: is it my ears?, my cheap table, amp, speakers? is this the version they goofed up in the studio? A big thank you to all!

I completely understand. I had listened to a quite early Little Richard disc a while back. Raw, but even more alive. Very appreciated-m

[Soulstu]

I would sum it up like this.

we'd rather listen to someone sing or play with feeling and character and it be a bit unrefined than listen to something with all the feeling polished off.

something like james lately - tears running and falling... it's like being in the room with the guy, and he just starts singing what he wants to say.

for me there's an optimum point between production and expression achieved on lots of 60s soul records like gene toones for example, but for pure soul music, the less interference between the soul and the stylus the better.

if you like polish, try some steely dan.

Ooh can't get much more polished than the Dan...Pretzel Logic - wonderful!!!... I like both ends of the spectrum - it's the stuff in between I can't stand! 

[Liamgp]

I would sum it up like this.

we'd rather listen to someone sing or play with feeling and character and it be a bit unrefined than listen to something with all the feeling polished off.

something like james lately - tears running and falling... it's like being in the room with the guy, and he just starts singing what he wants to say.

for me there's an optimum point between production and expression achieved on lots of 60s soul records like gene toones for example, but for pure soul music, the less interference between the soul and the stylus the better.

if you like polish, try some steely dan.

 

Or as someone (may have been Pete Townshend) put it when asked why early rock and roll and rnb/soul records sounded so raw and vital: "they used simple recording equipment to capture the performance of the artist(s). That's all there was to it".

[Guest]

I still use an 1970's AKAI Amp.

This still has the Mono/Stereo button that just about all Amps had at that time.

1960's and early 70's records sound better played in Mono.

The sound is tight and together and balanced. When I play them in stereo, it has a loose unbalanced disjointed kinda sound, by comparison.

I dread the day this Amp packs up, because I have tried for years to find a new replacement Amp with a Mono button.

I know a few other record collectors who feel the same.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Guest

[Tony A]

I still use an 1970's AKAI Amp.

This still has the Mono/Stereo button that just about all Amps had at that time.

1960's and early 70's records sound better played in Mono.

The sound is tight and together and balanced. When I play them in stereo, it has a loose unbalanced disjointed kinda sound, by comparison.

I dread the day this Amp packs up, because I have tried for years to find a new replacement Amp with a Mono button.

I know a few other record collectors who feel the same.

Easy to do, connect the two inner cores of your supply cable (phonos) together it becomes Mono, ie left & right signals joined into one, if you're smart enough you can link and disconnect the two signals with a switch along the cable.

 

If it's gonna be a fix for a lot of people I might start making them and flogging them.    

Edited August 20, 2014 by Tony A

[Prophonics 2029]

All tho it is a big thing to give up the perceived stereo effect that A mono recording produces on a stereo system, but it's really not there.....I like a three way system where two of the speakers play mono and a third plays out of phase mono.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Prophonics 2029

[Only Dreaming]

My Dad had an Akai amp in the late 70's with a one of those stereo mono switches. I had always wondered why my 60's soul 45's sounded distorted on the high notes but carried on ignorant nonetheless for ages, well I was still a teenager. Then one day I was playing Diane Lewis "I thank you kindly on my head phones and it sounded bloody awful. For some unknown reason I pushed the mono button on the amp and the record sounded perfect! I always make sure that I play mono records in mono ever since.

Dave

I still use an 1970's AKAI Amp.

This still has the Mono/Stereo button that just about all Amps had at that time.

1960's and early 70's records sound better played in Mono.

The sound is tight and together and balanced. When I play them in stereo, it has a loose unbalanced disjointed kinda sound, by comparison.

I dread the day this Amp packs up, because I have tried for years to find a new replacement Amp with a Mono button.

I know a few other record collectors who feel the same.

[Gold Band]

Easy to do, connect the two inner cores of your supply cable (phonos) together it becomes Mono, ie left & right signals joined into one, if you're smart enough you can link and disconnect the two signals with a switch along the cable.

 

If it's gonna be a fix for a lot of people I might start making them and flogging them.    

 

Tony You can already buy Stereo To Mono Jacks on the Net.

Oh And you can then buy the mono 1/4 female to stereo 1/4 male & hey presto everything Stereo plays in mono

https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=stereo+to+mono+jack

https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=mono+1%2F4+female+to+stereo+1%2F4+male

Kirsty

Edited August 20, 2014 by Gold Band

[Tony A]

Tony You can already buy Stereo To Mono Jacks on the Net.

Oh And you can then buy the mono 1/4 female to stereo 1/4 male & hey presto everything Stereo plays in mono

https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=stereo+to+mono+jack

https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=mono+1%2F4+female+to+stereo+1%2F4+male

Kirsty

I know, but don't tell everyone,    Doh, too late.    

[Davenpete]

It's an old argument and everyone will have heard the story of the decca picnic player in the Boardroom at Motown on which they tested acetates to hear how their buyers would consume the recordings.

 

Analogue at its best will by definition be better than digital because it is a continuous stream of information as opposed to a string of snapshots of the sound (no matter how frequent they are - think real photograph versus newsprint). When you get to youtube etc they're further compressed - meaning there are even fewer samples and lower definition still.

 

In addition CDs tend to be mastered to match their strong points - ie they're trebly because it makes em sound crisper and more 'impressive'  compared to what I guess the industry looks upon as the wooliness of vinyl - which of course we see as atmosphere and character - with proper bass (for instance you were never MEANT to here the chains crisply and identifiably as 'chains' in Nowhere to Run as you do on the CD - they're part of the intentionally created 'soundscape' of the recording, so that the CD mastering has fundamentally changed the character of the track from what was intended).

 

Dx

Edited August 21, 2014 by DaveNPete

[Elvisluvs]

I think it was said earlier about the disjointed sound of stereo vs mono. I think that might also be adding to the sound I'm hearing. Thanks for that insight!

[Larsc]

I still use an 1970's AKAI Amp.

I dread the day this Amp packs up, because I have tried for years to find a new replacement Amp with a Mono button.

I know a few other record collectors who feel the same.

 

A repairman can keep that amp alive for decades. Very few amps have parts that cannot be replaced.