I Know We've Had These Before But I'm Still Unsure - Boots/orig ?

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

OK

 

I've gone back through all the previous threads I can find and I'm still a bit unsure.....so bear with me. I'm going to flog these but want to be sure on originality or otherwise. They have been in a mates box for about 30 years, and I only collect originals and dont have the JM boot guide.

 

Jimmy Raye on KKC - Philly Dog -  Mine is dark blue label with KKC S-002 A on one side and Hitch N Post, JODAX (BMI) Time 2:35 on the other. Artist name at the top and title at the bottom. Run out groove is scratched S-002-B.

 

Now Dave Thorley posted up a scan of an original and it didnt have the JODAX on there. James Trouble posted up a scan with JODAX same as mine and said it was an original from Shifty. There were also comment that the S-002-B were orig.

 

Which is the boot and which is orig ?

 

 

Millionaires - you got to love your baby - Castle. Mine is a dull blue with LP 367002 and something like Virtue C@P R scatched in the run out.

 

I'm voting boot as I recall my orig which I sold had a much darker blue label.

 

Opinions ?

 

Finally everyones disputed record James Lewis The Case of Time.  Mine is Yellow label with LEGEND in Red and run out grooves say L001 A - 2 (or - v ) with ZTSC 148638 - 2A  and further along URM.

 

I'm voting boot again, but your opinions welcome.

 

Thanks for your help

 

 

[Autumnstoned]

Re Jimmy Raye, according to JM's guide ( 5th edition ), the counterfeit has 10.10mm wide deadwax and matrix lightly scratched which reads S - 002 - A

 

It states the original has matrix reading S - 002 B and that you may detect a very faint illegible matrix between the 2 and the B going clockwise, 21.00mm from the S.The defining stamp is directly opposite the S namely a tiny stamped in hall matrix PES

 

I don't write this stuff, I'm just repeating pretty much verbatim what's in the guide 

 

Oh, the label scan  of the original in the guide has Jodax ( BMI ) printed beneath Hitch n Post.

 

Apologies if above already been said in previous thread.

Edited July 30, 2014 by autumnstoned

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

Re Jimmy Raye, according to JM's guide ( 5th edition ), the counterfeit has 10.10mm wide deadwax and matrix lightly scratched which reads S - 002 - A

 

It states the original has matrix reading S - 002 B and that you may detect a very faint illegible matrix between the 2 and the B going clockwise, 21.00mm from the S.The defining stamp is directly opposite the S namely a tiny stamped in hall matrix PES

 

I don't write this stuff, I'm just repeating pretty much verbatim what's in the guide 

 

Oh, the label scan  of the original in the guide has Jodax ( BMI ) printed beneath Hitch n Post.

 

Apologies if above already been said in previous thread.

Thanks for the info

 

I have the JODAX and S-002-B and to the left of the S is a very faint matrix mark. But I cant find anything resembling PES.

 

I think I'll say original for this.

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

Got the info now on the Millionaires. The orig has a Frankford and Wayne stamp. I remember it was on my old copy.

 

Thanks for the PM's

[Hammie]

James Lewis & Case of Tyme you have is an ORIGINAL

Yellow label with red vertical text down the left side record is a Vinyl original

Admittedly the more common original which goes for £50- £75

(Forget the deadwax matrix info)

 

The Case Of Tyme (only group name) original is on Styrene only

With a green paper stuck on label.

Considered the first press and harder to find and goes for £80 - £120

 

Yellow copy boots are in various formats vinyl and styrene but with Legend text in black

Green boots of the Case of Tyme are vinyl

 

 

I have a copy like yours from (a well respected ebay dealer) in the States

but I managed to blag myself a very rare copy with 'DJ Copy' underneath

the right hand label credits   

[Jerry Hipkiss]

Confused of Cheltenham here...my boot of Jimmy Raye, bought as soon as it was pressed, has Hitch 'N Post, Jodax (BMI), TIME 2:35 on the right of the label, KKC S-002A on the left...matrix is scratched S-002 - B, with no other visible markings, and of course there's a brief but noticeable drop in the audio on the fade out.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Jerry Hipkiss

[Autumnstoned]

Confused of Cheltenham here...my boot of Jimmy Raye, bought as soon as it was pressed, has Hitch 'N Post, Jodax (BMI), TIME 2:35 on the right of the label, KKC S-002A on the left...matrix is scratched S-002 - B, with no other visible markings, and of course there's a brief but noticeable drop in the audio on the fade out.

 

Apologies if I've caused confusion. I'm not an expert and was simply posting what's in JM's guide as the OP said he didn't have access to it. That was before I actually read the earlier thread and in hindsight I shouldn't have posted. 

 

Here's the link to the earlier thread :-

 

Edited July 30, 2014 by autumnstoned

[Jerry Hipkiss]

Apologies if I've caused confusion. I'm not an expert and was simply posting what's in JM's guide as the OP said he didn't have access to it. That was before I actually read the earlier thread and in hindsight I shouldn't have posted. 

 

Here's the link to the earlier thread :-

 

No problem, confused is my normal state...:-)

[Hammie]

Thanks for the info

 

I have the JODAX and S-002-B and to the left of the S is a very faint matrix mark. But I cant find anything resembling PES.

 

I think I'll say original for this.

Hi again,

Also had 2 original Jimmie Raye on K K C over the years.

 

Sure the faint matrix mark in the deadwax was 'AUDIOMATRIX' a New York Bronx stamping masters manufacturers mark.

 

I recognised the very faint stamp from other records i have,  on some its much clearer like I had copies of

The LOVETTES - LITTLE MISS SOUL - CARNIVAL and RONNIE FORTE - TARX with this matrix.

Hope this helps.

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

James Lewis & Case of Tyme you have is an ORIGINAL

Yellow label with red vertical text down the left side record is a Vinyl original

Admittedly the more common original which goes for £50- £75

(Forget the deadwax matrix info)

 

The Case Of Tyme (only group name) original is on Styrene only

With a green paper stuck on label.

Considered the first press and harder to find and goes for £80 - £120

 

Yellow copy boots are in various formats vinyl and styrene but with Legend text in black

Green boots of the Case of Tyme are vinyl

 

 

I have a copy like yours from (a well respected ebay dealer) in the States

but I managed to blag myself a very rare copy with 'DJ Copy' underneath

the right hand label credits   

Thanks Hammie

 

Unfortunately according to previous threads and JM's book there is a boot which is yellow label, red Legend and Black credits. The key apprently is in the run out matrix which has specific letters (check previous threads). The letters dont correspond to my copy, so if yours is the same as mine it may well be a boot.

 

Andy

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

Confused of Cheltenham here...my boot of Jimmy Raye, bought as soon as it was pressed, has Hitch 'N Post, Jodax (BMI), TIME 2:35 on the right of the label, KKC S-002A on the left...matrix is scratched S-002 - B, with no other visible markings, and of course there's a brief but noticeable drop in the audio on the fade out.

Thanks Jerry I'll play it tomorrow to check for sound deviation.

 

Andy

[Sunnysoul]

Thanks Hammie

 

Unfortunately according to previous threads and JM's book there is a boot which is yellow label, red Legend and Black credits. The key apprently is in the run out matrix which has specific letters (check previous threads). The letters dont correspond to my copy, so if yours is the same as mine it may well be a boot.

 

Andy

 

Would be great if someone could provide a scan of the yellow label, red Legend, black credit "boot" with matrix marks .... and also a scan of the original yellow label, red Legend, black credit so that we can compare them.

[dthedrug]

 HI ALL  JIMMY RAYE IS BLOODY HARD TO TELL, I HAV 2 COPIES THAT LOOK IDENTICAL ONE WITH THE S AND 1 WITHOUT, NO DIFFERANCE IN SOUND, CONCLUSION IS THEY ARE BOTH BOOTS? THE S MARK HAS BEEN ADDED, OR THE COPY WITHOUT THE S MARK IS A 1ST PRESS ORIGANAL & THE OTHER IS A 2ND PRESS ORIGANAL, EITHER WAY IN THE CASE OF THIS RECORD IF THEY ARE BOOTS THEY ARE AS GOOD AS THE ORIGANAL BUT A LOT CHEAPER, I'M NOT ENDORSING BOOTLEGS AT ALL, JUST MAKING A STATEMENT OF FACT, NEVER BUY A COPY UNSEEN IS MY ADVISE  DAVE K

[Hammie]

Thanks Hammie

 

Unfortunately according to previous threads and JM's book there is a boot which is yellow label, red Legend and Black credits. The key apprently is in the run out matrix which has specific letters (check previous threads). The letters dont correspond to my copy, so if yours is the same as mine it may well be a boot.

 

Andy

Hi mate,

As I quoted previously mine is a rare 'DJ Copy' which is in the typeface on the right hand side credits NO boot demo's exist so  

I am pretty sure mine is an original and therefore when I get a chance I will check the record out fully and get back to you

[Ady Potts]

The original Jimmie Raye has a factory 'stamped' matrix that's approx. 7mm long. Look at the photo's I've supplied (on this copy) it's in the dead wax in line with the song title. I've had 3 originals & all have had this stamp.

 

Edited July 31, 2014 by pottsy

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

Hi mate,

As I quoted previously mine is a rare 'DJ Copy' which is in the typeface on the right hand side credits NO boot demo's exist so  

I am pretty sure mine is an original and therefore when I get a chance I will check the record out fully and get back to you

Yes. missed you had put it was a DJ copy

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

OK lets recap on the Jimmy Raye

 

My copy looks exactly like the label shown in Pottsy's scan (thanks for that). It has the S-002-B in the run out groove (as the boot guide says the orig should have). There is a small matrix stamp to the left of the 'S' but it is much fainter than Pottsy's scan - almost illegible but definitely there. I played it as Jerry suggested and the record ends with a normal fade out and no abrupt ending.

 

So whats the conclusion chaps ?

[Ady Potts]

OK lets recap on the Jimmy Raye

 

My copy looks exactly like the label shown in Pottsy's scan (thanks for that). It has the S-002-B in the run out groove (as the boot guide says the orig should have). There is a small matrix stamp to the left of the 'S' but it is much fainter than Pottsy's scan - almost illegible but definitely there. I played it as Jerry suggested and the record ends with a normal fade out and no abrupt ending.

 

So whats the conclusion chaps ?

Andy,

 

Using the S - 002 B as a marker point, go 180 degrees round the dead wax, so you're opposite the S - 002 B. There should be a very small 'pes' in the deadwax. Do you have that ?

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

Andy,

 

Using the S - 002 B as a marker point, go 180 degrees round the dead wax, so you're opposite the S - 002 B. There should be a very small 'pes' in the deadwax. Do you have that ?

No defintely no other marking on the run out. However on previous threads it said the PES is there in some and not other origs ???

[Hammie]

Yes. missed you had put it was a DJ copy

Hi there again,

Have now looked at my vinyl demo and in the deadwax is L1014A on the 'Manifesto' side L1014B on the 'Some call it love' side.

have noticed however that record shows L-1014-B in right hand side printed credits on both sides ? but this seems to be consistent

with all the copies that are shown on Popsike as originals.