Tonite - Northern Soul Bbc Living For The Weekend

[Kegsy]

That's strange because i picked up on the general feeling as well re:"Colin the one with the ears.".Was whispered a few times in darkened corners.Again,no disrespect to Ian.

 

You have to remember that Ian was heavily influenced by the Motown sound, it was always his first love.

[Pete S]

I don't understand why people get angry about these programs, you know what they're going to be like before they even air, and they aren't  made to pander to the hardcore Northern Soul people, they're made for the few hundred thousand other people watching the telly at the time in the hope they'll find it interesting and watch the show.  The only person to have done a proper job is Ian Levine with his SWONS project, and even if you were to cut the artists performances out of it, you have the best documentary ever made about Northern and the NS scene.  And you can't complain about the talking heads in it either as they include everyone who people have complained about not being included in the BBC films.

[Kegsy]

I don't understand why people get angry about these programs, you know what they're going to be like before they even air, and they aren't  made to pander to the hardcore Northern Soul people, they're made for the few hundred thousand other people watching the telly at the time in the hope they'll find it interesting and watch the show.  The only person to have done a proper job is Ian Levine with his SWONS project, and even if you were to cut the artists performances out of it, you have the best documentary ever made about Northern and the NS scene.  And you can't complain about the talking heads in it either as they include everyone who people have complained about not being included in the BBC films.

 

And little ole me and my car. (shameless plug).

Edited July 26, 2014 by Kegsy

[Driveller]

I think they are correct, I C H M really is the template for thousands of Northern records, the only trouble is, the clip they showed was of a live version with some band playing it and sounded nothing like the original.

Absolutely spot on, Pete; this was the bit that had me shouting loudest at the telly.  This was a really, REALLY poor editorial decision at a fundamental moment in the documentary.  ICHM is a genuinely useful example to give as a template (I normally offer "Uptight" or "The Same Old Song" as the example, but I'd be entirely happy with ICHM), BUT, 60s US TV live performances of Motown stuff have always been plagued by rubbish Johnny Dankworth-type backing orchestras who try to jazz up and lighten the tune, so it ends up sounding like perky cheese-pop.  For the editor to have selected a recording that does that, thereby going directly against everything that gives the original recording the characteristics that caught our attention is as good as putting a subtitle up saying "I haven't got a clue what I'm talking about".  To do it while cutting backwards and forwards between the performance and a set of talking heads who are giving the definition in a way that suggests that hearing the music will help you understand each point they're making, while the music sounds the opposite is beyond absurd!

 

And it's not as if you can't get lip-synch archive of this stuff - it's all over the place! Lazy, sloppy, ignorant, whatever was behind that it was a terrible decision.

 

Nick

[Zed1]

Can someone please upload it as I can't see it in Europe

 

To save an hour of your life here's a summary......

 

Back in the 60's a Mod from the Smoke moved up Norf' and got a job at the local Pit, he then swapped his scooter for a 2 up - 2 down Terrace and half a pound of Black Pudding, then spent all of the 70's dancing around the local bingo hall to Sugar Pie Honey bunch, except for a short period when a rich bloke from Blackpool played some Disco tunes he didn't like. However all the DJ's who invented Northern soul in the first place got together and sorted all the rubbish out so now all the Young souls only have quality rare soul to listen to like Duffy and Tribute.

 

Sadly however he died on the 31/12/79 after overdosing on his Whippets worming tablets which he mistook for Chalkies.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Zed1

[Tattoodave]

To save an hour of your life here's a summary......

 

Back in the 60's a Mod from the Smoke moved up Norf' and got a job at the local Pit, he then swapped his scooter for a 2 up - 2 down Terrace and half a pound of Black Pudding, then spent all of the 70's dancing around the local bingo hall to Sugar Pie Honey bunch, except for a short period when a rich bloke from Blackpool played some Disco tunes he didn't like. However all the DJ's who invented Northern soul in the first place got together and sorted all the rubbish out so now all the Young souls only have quality rare soul to listen to like Duffy and Tribute.

 

Sadly however he died on the 31/12/79 after overdosing on his Whippets worming tablets which he mistook for Chalkies.

Did you write the précis for my English lit books?  Very funny

[Winsford Soul]

Should be some interesting conversations tonight at Radcliff regarding last night's programme.   

 

Steve

[Guest Matt Male]

I don't understand why people get angry about these programs, you know what they're going to be like before they even air, and they aren't  made to pander to the hardcore Northern Soul people, they're made for the few hundred thousand other people watching the telly at the time in the hope they'll find it interesting and watch the show.  The only person to have done a proper job is Ian Levine with his SWONS project, and even if you were to cut the artists performances out of it, you have the best documentary ever made about Northern and the NS scene.  And you can't complain about the talking heads in it either as they include everyone who people have complained about not being included in the BBC films.

 

 

Not angry Pete, just a bit disappointed it's never anything new, or anything other than the 60s and 70s. You're right, we do know what they are going to be before they air, that's the problem.

 

It's not just northern either. I watch a lot of historical documentaries and time and time again they just tread over the same ground. It's just lazy film making.

 

I wish I had the time, money, and energy to make one to be honest.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Matt Male

[Colouredman]

Pete I take your point, but from an editing point of view, with only an hour to spare would you really waste it covering irrelevant tripe about Wigans Ovation and Lenny Gamble???? 

[Pete S]

Pete I take your point, but from an editing point of view, with only an hour to spare would you really waste it covering irrelevant tripe about Wigans Ovation and Lenny Gamble???? 

 

Possibly a couple of lines about the boom and Wigans Ovation but not at the expense of more positive stuff, we can't deny it happened though Tim, and I'm going to plead guilty to buying that record because I didn't know how to get the original version, probably the same for a lot of 14 / 15 year olds at the time.  I also bought The Javells, Wayne Gibson, Footsee.  By the same token, I'd already got Sliced Tomatoes and In Orbit and The Joker.  Just didn't think about differences at the time.

[Soul16]

Possibly a couple of lines about the boom and Wigans Ovation but not at the expense of more positive stuff, we can't deny it happened though Tim, and I'm going to plead guilty to buying that record because I didn't know how to get the original version, probably the same for a lot of 14 / 15 year olds at the time.  I also bought The Javells, Wayne Gibson, Footsee.  By the same token, I'd already got Sliced Tomatoes and In Orbit and The Joker.  Just didn't think about differences at the time.

I'm guilty too, I even went on to buy 'After loving you' on RK by Wigans Ovation. It was only after seeing Nicky Wilson on Casino Classics red vinyl, that I stopped and thought 'Hang on a minute, this isn't Northern Soul is it?'

In my opinion, that programme last night was a fairly honest interpretation of how it was - warts and all. It was pretty much how I remembered it.

[Guest Byrney]

I found it rather sad there was not one mention of one of the true gentlemen of the scene - Soul Sam?

I know he has not been well recently & I hope he is back doing what he does soon,

As far as the erasing of history ie. rare soul in the "80's & 90's" I'm not in the slightest bit surprised after all there was no "corporate" big bucks to be made at that time so the big boys had moved on to new more profitable pickings only to return when the cash cow called!

all that is fine by me they are business men first ........... but not saviours of the scene.

Got it in one, give this man a cigar

I'm convinced it's no coincidence that some of the same old talking heads on programmes like these ignore the time they we're off / not promoting on the scene thus pretending it never happened.

One reason - it suits their nostalgia punters who have a nice tidy excuse for dropping out for a couple of decades as 'nothing of note was happening' whilst they were away and secondly it enables the nostalgia promoters a chance to pick up where they left, dine out on past glories; not shadowed by achievements that outweigh their own from those who kept driving the scene in their considerable absence.

[Kegsy]

Once again no mention of Cleethorpes Pier, despite the program going up to the end of Wigan.

[Driveller]

I had low expectations going into this (had a suspicion how far the coverage was going to extend when Ady Croasdell mentioned that nobody had spoken to him), and to an extent they were confirmed when this one mentioned even less about things post-1980 than even the Culture Show one had, which I didn't think was possible. 

 

Richard was good (as always, clearly an essential interviewee for this type of programme); Fran was brilliant talking about the freedom and acceptance it gave her; Ian D was a solid anchor around which the interview clips seemed to centre;  Levine was impressive with his impassioned declaration of defiance against the pop charts and his assessment of the Ritz factionalism, and securing Colin Curtis for interview was fantastic, possibly the best bit.  Dave Clegg's enthusiasm was infectious; Marc Almond has a place and was given no more or less time than he should have been if you're going to mention him, and the same goes for Stringfellow, like it or not; You can't deny Waterman's involvement, but he does aquire a significance beyond what's justified due to TV producers' easy access to him.  It had a narrower soundtrack than the Culture Show doc, but a good selection of 60's archive footage, though I think they may have shown every second of the This England dancefloor footage, some more than once!

 

I always find it baffling that places like Cats, Cleethorpes, Yate etc never get a word in these docs (though someone did mention Whitchurch this time).  If you've got the time to repeat clips from This England, you've got the time to mention Cleethorpes or Yate! 

 

I find it puzzling that a documentary maker who has both Levine and Curtis on their programme can get the timeline wrong for the Mecca's contribution to the scene - perhaps he wasn't listening very closely...?

 

Absolutely shocking though, that once again we got a documentary that reinforced the 'death and resurrection' narrative of the scene.  That is laziness that cannot be excused.  The result is that once again I watched a documentary which did not touch on any event that was a part of my 30-year unbroken, active involvement on the scene as a dancer, collector, record trader, DJ, event promoter and writer, and thereby failed to touch on the experiences of a vast number of the people I encountered during that time, who must be saying the same thing.  However good the interviewees were, however good the archive footage, a documentary that fails to cover basic things (and 'the scene carried on' is a basic) is just a documentary that fails.

 

Nick

[Ernie Andrews]

Once again no mention of Cleethorpes Pier, despite the program going up to the end of Wigan.

Im going senile Kegsy - Your absolutely right and I was calling them because of the lack of Chronalogical arrangement of the timescale of the venues and Phook me I forgot Cleethorpes! WE really are getting too old to even remember let alone what the phook went on in the last decade!

[Pete S]

Once again no mention of Cleethorpes Pier, despite the program going up to the end of Wigan.

 

Or The Catacombs

[Kegsy]

Or The Catacombs

 

Did Va Va's get a mention ?.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Ian D, I realise that there was probably a remit for the program that didn't include the 'quiet' years, but can you tell me what your involvement was in the 80's & 90's?

Serious question. .......do any of the guys involved EVER think to say to Aunty Beeb "you know you really out to talk to X, Y & Z about this, that & the other to tell the full story"? Do you think that happens, or is there an element of self-preservation in that it would take the spotlight off them?

I'm not too fussed in the sense that I'm not really part of the rare soul scene, but I can understand why people might be seething about these programs, I really can! Ifind myself seriously empathising with them......I feel their pain so to speak.

I'm sure the "we've sorted it all out now" comment had a good many blowing off steam!!

Cheers,

Mark R

 

Whenever these things come up, the production team generally have a pretty good idea of how they're going to structure the show within the limits of a one hour show, so the interviewees simply answer the questions that are put to them. The production team are also generally coy about who else they're interviewing and they have generally already decided who they will approach, so there is little input on the direction of the show from anyone who is being interviewed. 

 

My input in the 80s and 90s was pretty sporadic as I working in London by then for EMI, Island, Serious, Mastercuts and Warner Brothers, so my ventures up North were limited. However I was travelling to the U.S. throughout that period and regularly coming back with crates of records which would be plundered by the likes of Sam and a legion of collectors and DJs. Needless to say, there's dozens of records which broke throughout the 80s, 90s and 00s which once graced my shelves. I never particularly lost contact with the scene but most of the 80s was spent between London and New York and the 90s was spent building brand names and working for corporates. If I was lucky I might get to a handful of Northern events a year through that period (mostly the 100 Club). It's still the same these days - work is so all-consuming that my time is limited and Saturday nighters don't help Monday morning marketing meetings!  

 

Let's not forget that there's tons of production companies out there and if they want to make a programme about the the scene in the 80s and 90s, then they can. No one is stopping them. I don't blame 'em for concentrating on the 70s as that was the most popular period of Northern Soul and the period which the majority of people would perceive as being a key time in the evolution of the music. It would need a different sensibility to cover the 80s and 90s, but as I've said above, there are plenty of very able spokespeople from that period too and I would decline to talk about that period as I wasn't there first-hand. But I was there first-hand in the 70s so if they want to talk about that era, then fine, bring it on.

 

If any production companies are reading this thread, then please please please do a show about the 80s and 90s so us oldies can have a break! 

 

Ian D 

[Linda4me]

 

on tonite

info and a preview  clip on the bbc page

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p023dc55

 

showing times

 

Fri 25 Jul 2014

21:30

BBC Four

 

Sat 26 Jul 2014

00:30

BBC Four

 

Mon 28 Jul 2014

00:00

BBC Four

 

Not on Saturday according to BBC4 guide ??

[Kegsy]

Something else that never seems to come across is when we had

a few venues running at the same time.

Its all made out to be some kind of competition behind rival venues.

Whereas the true scene hardcode people would for example,

do Va va's, then the Mecca, then Wigan and an all dayer Sunday.

This point never seems to get made.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Kegsy

[Pete S]

Maybe they just go for the period where something was high on the public's conscience, for instance, if they make a documentary about Punk Rock they probably end it in 1978 even though many bands continued as 'pure' Punk even up to today, Joe Public probably only remembers The Pistols, Clash, Damned etc so that's what they focus on - forget about Crass and Oi etc.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Once again no mention of Cleethorpes Pier, despite the program going up to the end of Wigan.

 

I talked about Cleethorpes and in particular the fact that as you drove into Cleethorpes @ 3.00am you could hear the stomping from the Pier over a mile away. They probably chopped that as Colin said much the same thing about the Torch. You'd need a 3-4 hour show to cover everything. As someone said earlier, a dedicated series would probably be the way to go.......

 

Ian D 

[Ian Dewhirst]

Maybe they just go for the period where something was high on the public's conscience, for instance, if they make a documentary about Punk Rock they probably end it in 1978 even though many bands continued as 'pure' Punk even up to today, Joe Public probably only remembers The Pistols, Clash, Damned etc so that's what they focus on - forget about Crass and Oi etc.

 

Precisely. They're always going to concentrate on the most popular stuff unless they want to lose viewers.

 

Ian D 

[Quinvy]

One of the limiting factors of making these programs must be the lack of film available from back then. How many times can you watch the same clips from This England before you lose interest?

[Ian Dewhirst]

Not on Saturday according to BBC4 guide ??

 

It was. It was shown again at 12.30am today. I got to watch it twice within 4 hours!

 

Ian D 

[Mike]

Not on Saturday according to BBC4 guide ??

think the saturday timing  was am as in a couple of hours after the original showing rather than late nite saturday/sunday morning

[Driveller]

Maybe they just go for the period where something was high on the public's conscience, for instance, if they make a documentary about Punk Rock they probably end it in 1978 even though many bands continued as 'pure' Punk even up to today, Joe Public probably only remembers The Pistols, Clash, Damned etc so that's what they focus on - forget about Crass and Oi etc.

 

Excellent Freudian slip there, Pete - think you probably meant consciousness, but what you said might be why they gave Wigan's Ovation so much attention in this one!

 

Agree with the rest of your point, incidentally...

[Ian Dewhirst]

Something else that never seems to come across is when we had

a few venues running at the same time.

Its all made out to be some kind of completion behind rival venues.

Whereas the true scene hardcode people would for example,

do Va va's, then the Mecca, then Wigan and an all dayer Sunday.

This point never seems to get made.

 

Good point. 

 

Ian D 

[Pete S]

Excellent Freudian slip there, Pete - think you probably meant consciousness, but what you said might be why they gave Wigan's Ovation so much attention in this one!

 

Agree with the rest of your point, incidentally...

 

I knew I meant something like that 

[Linda4me]

think the saturday timing  was am as in a couple of hours after the original showing rather than late nite saturday/sunday morning

Thanks,told my mate i thought it was on tonight and he's given me good stick   He'll have to watch it Monday 

[Garethx]

People are giving this too easy a ride. It was poor on pretty much every level. A good historical documentary should ask not only what happened but why. It lacked even the personal perspective of Paul Mason's programme. You never really got the impression that any of this meant anything to anyone involved and that's criminal. 

 

That's not to slate those scene figures who took part as talking heads, as I understand once the interviews are done so much is down to the editing process. They were all pretty good.

 

The interventions of the 'celebs' were embarrassing. Norman Jay and Waterman were winging it so much it made my blood boil. The Tony Blackburn contributions were irrelevant. I can't believe that you have to feature these people in order to get the thing commissioned. Norman Jay's had nearly 40 years' worth of opportunity to get involved in the scene since his mythic visit to Wigan yet I've never seen him anywhere. Why does he get approached for these things?

 

The production team talked to me because of the book, but once I made it clear I didn't want to be on camera they weren't interested. The programme makers just think about 'content' in terms of minutes of film in a shoddy production like this. In a lengthy phone call with one of the researchers I addressed pretty much everything which everyone has mentioned above as a potential pitfall or shortcoming–celeb dross, cliches about the industrialised North, ignoring the 80s and 90s etc.: I'm guessing the 'conversation' (I'm using the term loosely) went totally over their heads. 

 

Because of the scarcity of historical archive footage Northern is a difficult subject to bring to the screen in a documentary, but once again we've been let down by a hackneyed presentation which views the scene as a kind of curio or cultural irrelevance on their terms. Bitterly ironic because to me the thing started and developed in the way that it did precisely to get away from soul fans being patronised by the cultural elite.

[Mark R]

Precisely. They're always going to concentrate on the most popular stuff unless they want to lose viewers.

Ian D

Then my question would be what exactly is the point of the program? If it ended at Wigan and said nowt about any point after that, then fine. But they didn't and rarely do, so how can you shuttle to now without including it all? It makes no sense!!

I'm working my way through Breaking Bad at the moment and sure wouldn't chose to watch only the start and the end as that would not give me the full picture?

Cheers,

Mark R

[Pete S]

Then my question would be what exactly is the point of the program? If it ended at Wigan and said nowt about any point after that, then fine. But they didn't and rarely do, so how can you shuttle to now without including it all? It makes no sense!!

I'm working my way through Breaking Bad at the moment and sure wouldn't chose to watch only the start and the end as that would not give me the full picture?

Cheers,

Mark R

 

But Breaking Bad remained consistently brilliant from start to finish - the Northern Soul scene didn't, some people wouldn't want to watch what happened after Wigan.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Then my question would be what exactly is the point of the program? If it ended at Wigan and said nowt about any point after that, then fine. But they didn't and rarely do, so how can you shuttle to now without including it all? It makes no sense!!

I'm working my way through Breaking Bad at the moment and sure wouldn't chose to watch only the start and the end as that would not give me the full picture?

Cheers,

Mark R

 

Then someone needs to address that era and make a programme about it. As I said, there hundreds of independent production companies out there who all work with the BBC, ITV and Channel 4 who could take it on. Mind you, they won't have "Breaking Bad" budgets and probably won't have 100+ plus hours to play with. 

 

Ian D 

Edited July 26, 2014 by Ian Dewhirst

[Mark R]

But Breaking Bad remained consistently brilliant from start to finish - the Northern Soul scene didn't, some people wouldn't want to watch what happened after Wigan.

Don't be so patronising Pete......how 'brilliant' it remained is in the eye of the beholder, and I can tell you it seemed pretty brilliant to this 16 year old!!

The irony is is that it's the aspects of it that make it a joke that these producers seem to major on, and I can fully understand why that winds some people up.

The obsession with Wigan Casino both from within and from outside the NS scene has done more harm than good is how it seems to me.......and that's from someone that would have given their right arm to have gone there! !

Cheers,

Mark R

Edited July 26, 2014 by Mark R

[Driveller]

Precisely. They're always going to concentrate on the most popular stuff unless they want to lose viewers.

 

Ian D 

Ian, I can see why you would make this point, but this is an argument I've been wondering about for some time, and I don't think it stands up as well as you might expect. 

 

Post 1980, the scene went back underground and gradually re-grew, but then also went global, which in itself suggests there's a big audience for the whole timespan. Add up the memership numbers for 100 Club, Stafford and all the hundreds of other clubs that went on when the scene was purportedly dead, plus scooter clubs and just general Soul music enthusiasts,  you probably have the amount you need for a respectable viewing figure on a BBC4 music documentary. Even this misses the point though.  The main issue is what kind of people actually watch a documentary like this and why?  If it's just people on the scene (which I don't believe), then there'll be at least 30 years worth of people who want to see something that covers what what they were involved with; if it's not, why would they object to a second half of the programme that says what happened next?  I watch all those BBC4 music docs, because I have a general interest in music, and when I watch something about Blues or Singer-songwriters, I'd really like the full story please, and even if they can't give loads of detail on everything I'd still like them to say what there is, so I can be informed about the whole picture.  Cover the whole story (which is TOTALLY possible in an hour - it's just down to what you choose to say) and everybody's happy - the pre-1980 scene people, the post-1980 scene people and the all the other people, who just want to find out what the whole thing's about.

 

What's really strange about NS documentaries today is that they've changed from the ones that got made up to 10 years or so ago.  If you look at the older TV things on You Tube, they were generally based on an assumption that they were covering something that was happening 'now', and showing it in its present form.  Look at the footage of the Blackburn allnighters in 1987 (here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJJq42q-r7s ) or the profile of the excellent and much missed Nogsy (here  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOkOEZm4YWQ) where, sure, they explain the history and drop in a few Frank Wilsons or Mick Hucknalls, but fundamentally treat it as a thing which is happening now, without suggesting it's stuck in the past or that it died a death - and just take a look at the participants to see that there's no suggestion you have to dress up in your Souled Knot uniform and join the Northern Soul Re-enactment Society - oddly enough, they seem quite capable of dancing without requiring Oxford bags, in opposition to what recent media coverage has been putting forward.

 

These are just two examples showing it's entirely possible to cover the scene without the 'death and resurrection' narrative, but I suggest SSers look through the docs on You Tube and see how this subject used to be covered up to about 10 years ago.  So what's changed?  Why the Revival, of course...

[Pete S]

Don't be so patronising Pete....

 

Are you actually capable of ever replying to a post of mine without putting an unnecessary barb in there, if so you should talk to someone about your problem, preferably me

Edited July 26, 2014 by Pete S

[Garethx]

Nick's points above are all spot on. This strand on BBC4 has generally been really good. The Gene Clark documentary was fantastic for example.

[Driveller]

But Breaking Bad remained consistently brilliant from start to finish - the Northern Soul scene didn't, some people wouldn't want to watch what happened after Wigan.

 

Granted,  but in terms of documentary coverage, what's to stop you covering it and saying that some people thought it was crap?

 

Nick

[Mark S]

As a loose potted history of a period of the scene probably aimed at the general public I thought it worked ok .

[Pete S]

Granted,  but in terms of documentary coverage, what's to stop you covering it and saying that some people thought it was crap?

 

Nick

 

Just talking about the Breaking Bad analogy - the series was practically faultless in every way.  The Northern Soul scene has had it's peaks and troughs therefore has not been consistently brilliant.  Look at the modern and crossover for a start.  And while people will say that was a predictable comment from me, thats what it's been about for me, highs and lows, the highest times have revolved around 60's northern, the worst times were people playing 12" disco records.

[Guest Byrney]

But Breaking Bad remained consistently brilliant from start to finish - the Northern Soul scene didn't, some people wouldn't want to watch what happened after Wigan.

How do you know? Cracking 5 minute slot could have been dropped in the programme to show the passion and hunger for new tunes, the return to the underground and the rejection of the tired old stereotypes from the Wigan era which would have enough drama, e.g Butch's quote in Gareth's book.

I do however think its more likely the case that most of those who dropped out after Wigan wouldn't want up see it but that's more a case of convincing themselves that they missed nothing. Bit of ego preservation

[Mark R]

Are you actually capable of ever replying to a post of mine without putting an unnecessary barb in there........

Evidently not, though I didn't consider it either a barb or unnecessary.

Best keep out of each other way on here though, as your forthright, definitive posts on both the music and aspects of the scene do seem to wind me up! I've just clocked your latest effort!!

Worth considering the fact that this happens to me with no-one else on here like........

Cheers,

Mark R

[Winsford Soul]

Maybe they just go for the period where something was high on the public's conscience, for instance, if they make a documentary about Punk Rock they probably end it in 1978 even though many bands continued as 'pure' Punk even up to today, Joe Public  - forget about Crass and Oi etc.

Who ? Pete I have never heard of them. Honestly

 

Steve

Edited July 26, 2014 by Winsford Soul

[Frankie Crocker]

I'd like to see someone sex these programmes up a bit, take a bit of a risk.

Brewster, Almond (as much as i love him), Stringfellow, Jay, Waterman have nothing whatsoever to do with Northern Soul, well i've never seen them out & about or talked about in my 20/30 years of doing Northern Soul.

.

These people were invited to SEX the programme up but for Joe Public. They have now been boxed away in storage to be wheeled out for the next programme...

[Steve Foran]

Generally feel that all of the comments on here have been accurate. I actually expected more negative comments. I enjoyed the programme Richard and Ian D really good. Not keen on the "celebs". No idea who the black guy with the hat is and what he had to do with it??

Colin was good, Ian is a diva aint he? Pete S puts a good point about his personal highs and lows. I think the scene is like that, even when you look at WC in the 70,s with its poor playlist. Then how Richard, Gary etc found and played some of the best stuff towards the end.

Would be great to see extended stories about Stafford and 100 club. Even the revival story with us oldiesgoing out to play every few weeks. The thing I really love is hearing something I don't know then trying to find a copy.

A good hours TV in general.

[Guest gordon russell]

And your point is, given that Ian, Colin and Tony Jebb all Dj'ed there ?

Really......may be wrong,but don,t remember  ian or colin djing there.....and the point was  l thought they were all sat around playing NEW stuff for that night at the mecca........or did l read it wrong

[Guest gordon russell]

I don't understand why people get angry about these programs, you know what they're going to be like before they even air, and they aren't  made to pander to the hardcore Northern Soul people, they're made for the few hundred thousand other people watching the telly at the time in the hope they'll find it interesting and watch the show.  The only person to have done a proper job is Ian Levine with his SWONS project, and even if you were to cut the artists performances out of it, you have the best documentary ever made about Northern and the NS scene.  And you can't complain about the talking heads in it either as they include everyone who people have complained about not being included in the BBC films.

Ian Levine was a dj in the early part of the scene,but l would argue he was not part of the scene....

[Dave Thorley]

All in all I thought it good. You always wish for more than these things ever deliver, but fairly enjoyable and not cringe worthy. They didn't entitle it 'A full and detailed history of Northern soul' So what we got was a number of snap shots and others trying to explain it's cultural context and Pete Waterman coming from the more musically technical side, which for me was fine.

I loved the fact that Colin spoke with so much honesty, displaying the excitement of arriving at The Torch as a punter and not trying to push what ever agenda currently consumes some of the others on there. My hero, but he knows that already.

 

As for Stafford, it's place in history is just fine and the peeps that do know about it are the ones that went and in terms of that venue, they are the ones I care about, because they made it what it was. As for some young kid of 18 knowing about it, if they really get interested in rare soul, they'll go to the trouble of finding out.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Dave Thorley

[Greety]

All the usual suspects/faces giving their opinions. Photographically, brilliant. Loads of great footage Manchester, Hose Street, back of chemists etc!

Musically excellent.

But as with Paul Mason's Culture show programme, the first half was so much better then the second. Once you've got past the musical beginnings and the inevitable Wigan footage, there's not much left.

A programme about Northern's progression post '80 wouldn't have the same appeal to any members of the general public, who might have watched out of curiosity imo.