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Tonite - Northern Soul Bbc Living For The Weekend


Mike

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That's strange because i picked up on the general feeling as well re:"Colin the one with the ears.".Was whispered a few times in darkened corners.Again,no disrespect to Ian.

 

You have to remember that Ian was heavily influenced by the Motown sound, it was always his first love.

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I don't understand why people get angry about these programs, you know what they're going to be like before they even air, and they aren't  made to pander to the hardcore Northern Soul people, they're made for the few hundred thousand other people watching the telly at the time in the hope they'll find it interesting and watch the show.  The only person to have done a proper job is Ian Levine with his SWONS project, and even if you were to cut the artists performances out of it, you have the best documentary ever made about Northern and the NS scene.  And you can't complain about the talking heads in it either as they include everyone who people have complained about not being included in the BBC films.

 

And little ole me and my car. (shameless plug).

Edited by Kegsy
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To save an hour of your life here's a summary......

 

Back in the 60's a Mod from the Smoke moved up Norf' and got a job at the local Pit, he then swapped his scooter for a 2 up - 2 down Terrace and half a pound of Black Pudding, then spent all of the 70's dancing around the local bingo hall to Sugar Pie Honey bunch, except for a short period when a rich bloke from Blackpool played some Disco tunes he didn't like. However all the DJ's who invented Northern soul in the first place got together and sorted all the rubbish out so now all the Young souls only have quality rare soul to listen to like Duffy and Tribute.

 

Sadly however he died on the 31/12/79 after overdosing on his Whippets worming tablets which he mistook for Chalkies.

Did you write the précis for my English lit books?  Very funny

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Guest Matt Male

I don't understand why people get angry about these programs, you know what they're going to be like before they even air, and they aren't  made to pander to the hardcore Northern Soul people, they're made for the few hundred thousand other people watching the telly at the time in the hope they'll find it interesting and watch the show.  The only person to have done a proper job is Ian Levine with his SWONS project, and even if you were to cut the artists performances out of it, you have the best documentary ever made about Northern and the NS scene.  And you can't complain about the talking heads in it either as they include everyone who people have complained about not being included in the BBC films.

 

 

Not angry Pete, just a bit disappointed it's never anything new, or anything other than the 60s and 70s. You're right, we do know what they are going to be before they air, that's the problem. :(

 

It's not just northern either. I watch a lot of historical documentaries and time and time again they just tread over the same ground. It's just lazy film making.

 

I wish I had the time, money, and energy to make one to be honest.

Edited by Matt Male
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Pete I take your point, but from an editing point of view, with only an hour to spare would you really waste it covering irrelevant tripe about Wigans Ovation and Lenny Gamble???? 

 

Possibly a couple of lines about the boom and Wigans Ovation but not at the expense of more positive stuff, we can't deny it happened though Tim, and I'm going to plead guilty to buying that record because I didn't know how to get the original version, probably the same for a lot of 14 / 15 year olds at the time.  I also bought The Javells, Wayne Gibson, Footsee.  By the same token, I'd already got Sliced Tomatoes and In Orbit and The Joker.  Just didn't think about differences at the time.

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Possibly a couple of lines about the boom and Wigans Ovation but not at the expense of more positive stuff, we can't deny it happened though Tim, and I'm going to plead guilty to buying that record because I didn't know how to get the original version, probably the same for a lot of 14 / 15 year olds at the time.  I also bought The Javells, Wayne Gibson, Footsee.  By the same token, I'd already got Sliced Tomatoes and In Orbit and The Joker.  Just didn't think about differences at the time.

I'm guilty too, I even went on to buy 'After loving you' on RK by Wigans Ovation. It was only after seeing Nicky Wilson on Casino Classics red vinyl, that I stopped and thought 'Hang on a minute, this isn't Northern Soul is it?'

In my opinion, that programme last night was a fairly honest interpretation of how it was - warts and all. It was pretty much how I remembered it.

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Guest Byrney

I found it rather sad there was not one mention of one of the true gentlemen of the scene - Soul Sam?

I know he has not been well recently & I hope he is back doing what he does soon,

As far as the erasing of history ie. rare soul in the "80's & 90's" I'm not in the slightest bit surprised after all there was no "corporate" big bucks to be made at that time so the big boys had moved on to new more profitable pickings only to return when the cash cow called!

all that is fine by me they are business men first ........... but not saviours of the scene.

Got it in one, give this man a cigar :)

I'm convinced it's no coincidence that some of the same old talking heads on programmes like these ignore the time they we're off / not promoting on the scene thus pretending it never happened.

One reason - it suits their nostalgia punters who have a nice tidy excuse for dropping out for a couple of decades as 'nothing of note was happening' whilst they were away :) and secondly it enables the nostalgia promoters a chance to pick up where they left, dine out on past glories; not shadowed by achievements that outweigh their own from those who kept driving the scene in their considerable absence.

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Once again no mention of Cleethorpes Pier, despite the program going up to the end of Wigan.

Im going senile Kegsy - Your absolutely right and I was calling them because of the lack of Chronalogical arrangement of the timescale of the venues and Phook me I forgot Cleethorpes! WE really are getting too old to even remember let alone what the phook went on in the last decade!

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Ian D, I realise that there was probably a remit for the program that didn't include the 'quiet' years, but can you tell me what your involvement was in the 80's & 90's?

Serious question. .......do any of the guys involved EVER think to say to Aunty Beeb "you know you really out to talk to X, Y & Z about this, that & the other to tell the full story"? Do you think that happens, or is there an element of self-preservation in that it would take the spotlight off them?

I'm not too fussed in the sense that I'm not really part of the rare soul scene, but I can understand why people might be seething about these programs, I really can! Ifind myself seriously empathising with them......I feel their pain so to speak.

I'm sure the "we've sorted it all out now" comment had a good many blowing off steam!!

Cheers,

Mark R

 

Whenever these things come up, the production team generally have a pretty good idea of how they're going to structure the show within the limits of a one hour show, so the interviewees simply answer the questions that are put to them. The production team are also generally coy about who else they're interviewing and they have generally already decided who they will approach, so there is little input on the direction of the show from anyone who is being interviewed. 

 

My input in the 80s and 90s was pretty sporadic as I working in London by then for EMI, Island, Serious, Mastercuts and Warner Brothers, so my ventures up North were limited. However I was travelling to the U.S. throughout that period and regularly coming back with crates of records which would be plundered by the likes of Sam and a legion of collectors and DJs. Needless to say, there's dozens of records which broke throughout the 80s, 90s and 00s which once graced my shelves. I never particularly lost contact with the scene but most of the 80s was spent between London and New York and the 90s was spent building brand names and working for corporates. If I was lucky I might get to a handful of Northern events a year through that period (mostly the 100 Club). It's still the same these days - work is so all-consuming that my time is limited and Saturday nighters don't help Monday morning marketing meetings! :lol: 

 

Let's not forget that there's tons of production companies out there and if they want to make a programme about the the scene in the 80s and 90s, then they can. No one is stopping them. I don't blame 'em for concentrating on the 70s as that was the most popular period of Northern Soul and the period which the majority of people would perceive as being a key time in the evolution of the music. It would need a different sensibility to cover the 80s and 90s, but as I've said above, there are plenty of very able spokespeople from that period too and I would decline to talk about that period as I wasn't there first-hand. But I was there first-hand in the 70s so if they want to talk about that era, then fine, bring it on.

 

If any production companies are reading this thread, then please please please do a show about the 80s and 90s so us oldies can have a break!  :lol:

 

Ian D  :D

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Maybe they just go for the period where something was high on the public's conscience, for instance, if they make a documentary about Punk Rock they probably end it in 1978 even though many bands continued as 'pure' Punk even up to today, Joe Public probably only remembers The Pistols, Clash, Damned etc so that's what they focus on - forget about Crass and Oi etc.

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Once again no mention of Cleethorpes Pier, despite the program going up to the end of Wigan.

 

I talked about Cleethorpes and in particular the fact that as you drove into Cleethorpes @ 3.00am you could hear the stomping from the Pier over a mile away. They probably chopped that as Colin said much the same thing about the Torch. You'd need a 3-4 hour show to cover everything. As someone said earlier, a dedicated series would probably be the way to go.......

 

Ian D  :D

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Maybe they just go for the period where something was high on the public's conscience, for instance, if they make a documentary about Punk Rock they probably end it in 1978 even though many bands continued as 'pure' Punk even up to today, Joe Public probably only remembers The Pistols, Clash, Damned etc so that's what they focus on - forget about Crass and Oi etc.

 

Precisely. They're always going to concentrate on the most popular stuff unless they want to lose viewers.

 

Ian D  :D

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Maybe they just go for the period where something was high on the public's conscience, for instance, if they make a documentary about Punk Rock they probably end it in 1978 even though many bands continued as 'pure' Punk even up to today, Joe Public probably only remembers The Pistols, Clash, Damned etc so that's what they focus on - forget about Crass and Oi etc.

 

Excellent Freudian slip there, Pete - think you probably meant consciousness, but what you said might be why they gave Wigan's Ovation so much attention in this one!

 

Agree with the rest of your point, incidentally...

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Something else that never seems to come across is when we had

a few venues running at the same time.

Its all made out to be some kind of completion behind rival venues.

Whereas the true scene hardcode people would for example,

do Va va's, then the Mecca, then Wigan and an all dayer Sunday.

This point never seems to get made.

 

Good point. 

 

Ian D  :D

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Excellent Freudian slip there, Pete - think you probably meant consciousness, but what you said might be why they gave Wigan's Ovation so much attention in this one!

 

Agree with the rest of your point, incidentally...

 

I knew I meant something like that  :lol:

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think the saturday timing  was am as in a couple of hours after the original showing rather than late nite saturday/sunday morning

Thanks,told my mate i thought it was on tonight and he's given me good stick  :yes: He'll have to watch it Monday  :thumbup:

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Precisely. They're always going to concentrate on the most popular stuff unless they want to lose viewers.

Ian D :D

Then my question would be what exactly is the point of the program? If it ended at Wigan and said nowt about any point after that, then fine. But they didn't and rarely do, so how can you shuttle to now without including it all? It makes no sense!!

I'm working my way through Breaking Bad at the moment and sure wouldn't chose to watch only the start and the end as that would not give me the full picture?

Cheers,

Mark R

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Then my question would be what exactly is the point of the program? If it ended at Wigan and said nowt about any point after that, then fine. But they didn't and rarely do, so how can you shuttle to now without including it all? It makes no sense!!

I'm working my way through Breaking Bad at the moment and sure wouldn't chose to watch only the start and the end as that would not give me the full picture?

Cheers,

Mark R

 

Then someone needs to address that era and make a programme about it. As I said, there hundreds of independent production companies out there who all work with the BBC, ITV and Channel 4 who could take it on. Mind you, they won't have "Breaking Bad" budgets and probably won't have 100+ plus hours to play with.  :lol:

 

Ian D  :D

Edited by Ian Dewhirst
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But Breaking Bad remained consistently brilliant from start to finish - the Northern Soul scene didn't, some people wouldn't want to watch what happened after Wigan.

Don't be so patronising Pete......how 'brilliant' it remained is in the eye of the beholder, and I can tell you it seemed pretty brilliant to this 16 year old!!

The irony is is that it's the aspects of it that make it a joke that these producers seem to major on, and I can fully understand why that winds some people up.

The obsession with Wigan Casino both from within and from outside the NS scene has done more harm than good is how it seems to me.......and that's from someone that would have given their right arm to have gone there! !

Cheers,

Mark R

Edited by Mark R
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Don't be so patronising Pete....

 

Are you actually capable of ever replying to a post of mine without putting an unnecessary barb in there, if so you should talk to someone about your problem, preferably me

Edited by Pete S
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But Breaking Bad remained consistently brilliant from start to finish - the Northern Soul scene didn't, some people wouldn't want to watch what happened after Wigan.

 

Granted,  but in terms of documentary coverage, what's to stop you covering it and saying that some people thought it was crap?

 

Nick

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Granted,  but in terms of documentary coverage, what's to stop you covering it and saying that some people thought it was crap?

 

Nick

 

Just talking about the Breaking Bad analogy - the series was practically faultless in every way.  The Northern Soul scene has had it's peaks and troughs therefore has not been consistently brilliant.  Look at the modern and crossover for a start.  And while people will say that was a predictable comment from me, thats what it's been about for me, highs and lows, the highest times have revolved around 60's northern, the worst times were people playing 12" disco records.

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Guest Byrney

But Breaking Bad remained consistently brilliant from start to finish - the Northern Soul scene didn't, some people wouldn't want to watch what happened after Wigan.

How do you know? Cracking 5 minute slot could have been dropped in the programme to show the passion and hunger for new tunes, the return to the underground and the rejection of the tired old stereotypes from the Wigan era which would have enough drama, e.g Butch's quote in Gareth's book.

I do however think its more likely the case that most of those who dropped out after Wigan wouldn't want up see it but that's more a case of convincing themselves that they missed nothing. Bit of ego preservation

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Are you actually capable of ever replying to a post of mine without putting an unnecessary barb in there........

Evidently not, though I didn't consider it either a barb or unnecessary.

Best keep out of each other way on here though, as your forthright, definitive posts on both the music and aspects of the scene do seem to wind me up! I've just clocked your latest effort!!

Worth considering the fact that this happens to me with no-one else on here like........

Cheers,

Mark R

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Maybe they just go for the period where something was high on the public's conscience, for instance, if they make a documentary about Punk Rock they probably end it in 1978 even though many bands continued as 'pure' Punk even up to today, Joe Public  - forget about Crass and Oi etc.

Who ? Pete I have never heard of them. Honestly

 

Steve

Edited by Winsford Soul
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I'd like to see someone sex these programmes up a bit, take a bit of a risk.

Brewster, Almond (as much as i love him), Stringfellow, Jay, Waterman have nothing whatsoever to do with Northern Soul, well i've never seen them out & about or talked about in my 20/30 years of doing Northern Soul.

.

These people were invited to SEX the programme up but for Joe Public. They have now been boxed away in storage to be wheeled out for the next programme...

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Generally feel that all of the comments on here have been accurate. I actually expected more negative comments. I enjoyed the programme Richard and Ian D really good. Not keen on the "celebs". No idea who the black guy with the hat is and what he had to do with it??

Colin was good, Ian is a diva aint he? Pete S puts a good point about his personal highs and lows. I think the scene is like that, even when you look at WC in the 70,s with its poor playlist. Then how Richard, Gary etc found and played some of the best stuff towards the end.

Would be great to see extended stories about Stafford and 100 club. Even the revival story with us oldiesgoing out to play every few weeks. The thing I really love is hearing something I don't know then trying to find a copy.

A good hours TV in general.

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Guest gordon russell

And your point is, given that Ian, Colin and Tony Jebb all Dj'ed there ?

Really......may be wrong,but don,t remember  ian or colin djing there.....and the point was  l thought they were all sat around playing NEW stuff for that night at the mecca........or did l read it wrong

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Guest gordon russell

I don't understand why people get angry about these programs, you know what they're going to be like before they even air, and they aren't  made to pander to the hardcore Northern Soul people, they're made for the few hundred thousand other people watching the telly at the time in the hope they'll find it interesting and watch the show.  The only person to have done a proper job is Ian Levine with his SWONS project, and even if you were to cut the artists performances out of it, you have the best documentary ever made about Northern and the NS scene.  And you can't complain about the talking heads in it either as they include everyone who people have complained about not being included in the BBC films.

Ian Levine was a dj in the early part of the scene,but l would argue he was not part of the scene....

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All the usual suspects/faces giving their opinions. Photographically, brilliant. Loads of great footage Manchester, Hose Street, back of chemists etc!

Musically excellent.

But as with Paul Mason's Culture show programme, the first half was so much better then the second. Once you've got past the musical beginnings and the inevitable Wigan footage, there's not much left.

A programme about Northern's progression post '80 wouldn't have the same appeal to any members of the general public, who might have watched out of curiosity imo.

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