Tonite - Northern Soul Bbc Living For The Weekend

[dedji1955]

Someone stick it on Youtube as I won't be able to see it in Spain

Someone's posted it in 2 parts

Part 1...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pQt1Bbhm84&list=UU_WRx0-vQoBKyHHiVMI8WQQ

 

Part 2 ..... 

[Guest manusf3a]

Factually incorrect........for a start ...right from the beginning...plenty went north from the south  bletsoe,market harborugh, ect ect........and lastly  what the hell did all those experts know about the scene   "ian dewhirst being the exception".........time they had a show from a punters point of view!!!

 

having said that    not a bad prog............did ya see those cannisters of  duraphet ect .....

Yes saw the cannisters,especially those big bottles of duraphet, as you also say Terry  what about what went north from harborough and bletsoe,contribution of Glen Bellamy for one plus the amount of people from our neck of the woods involved in the soul scene.I think the only mention of Harborough was a quick snippet about some one who may have been to London on the train bringing the message back to Harboro from  that part of the world not that there was a nighter there years before Wigan.That was a nice big bottle of bombers though wasnt it! ps just had a look  again at a clip from the prog,black and whites and whites not bombers and bloody ell hes using a key to open the dda?

Edited July 26, 2014 by manusf3a

[Frankie Crocker]

Someone stick it on Youtube as I won't be able to see it in Spain

Ditto, in Los Angeles...

[Frankie Crocker]

Ditto, in Los Angeles...

Thanks for posting it. Hugely enjoyable. Probably the best potted history so far to date. ALL the contributors came across well.

[Frankie Crocker]

Seriously, Dave Withers, out of everyone, seems the voice of reason overall. I loved his piece in the Culture Show. Very dry.

 

Ian D 

Job well done Ian. I thought Searling talks so much sense. Dave was spot on though.

[Orotava]

 

 

Levine on a mission is always a terrifying prospect. That's what you get with compulsive obsessives. Sure, he had some major advantages to be able to get there in the first place, but he really didn't f*ck around once there. He has very very good ears. No one else in the world would have given "Hung Up On Your Love" or "It Really Hurts Me Girl" a spin back then. He found 'em, played 'em first and persevered with 'em, which is why, despite his multiple personality flaws, I can't help but to continue to respect him. He's always put me onto great records including my favorite record of all-time, so he's down with me. Also, I should point out that Levine ALWAYS gives credit to the people who put him onto records first. He's very honorable like that in my view. 

 

 

 

Ian D 

 

What would that be then Ian??? 

[Julianb]

Dave Clegg simply a LEGEND.

I still have a Marvelettes LP he bought me for my 21st birthday.

[Julianb]

They used a bootleg copy of Lou Pride when showing a few labels.

[Soulfinger]

I thought it was very well done. Great to see Colin Curtis appear and get the recognition he deserves, big shock to hear Ian Levine say he went too far and nice to hear him make a measured contribution. I thought he came across well. Excellent contributions from Ian D and from Richard.

 

I guess the story had to stop in 1980 when everything stopped sounding like I Can't Help Myself!

[Guest Simon]

I'd like to see someone sex these programmes up a bit, take a bit of a risk.

Brewster, Almond (as much as i love him), Stringfellow, Jay, Waterman have nothing whatsoever to do with Northern Soul, well i've never seen them out & about or talked about in my 20/30 years of doing Northern Soul.

I'd like to see Ady C, Butch, Pete Smith, Jo Wallace, Alan H, Dave Flynn, Andy Rix, Chalky, Russ Vickers , Dave Moore & countless others who have made Northen Soul what it is today from the eighties onwards.

Yes that's a good 30 years plus, last night only represented a very small space in time that was here & gone very quickly.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Simon

[Mark R]

Ian D, I realise that there was probably a remit for the program that didn't include the 'quiet' years, but can you tell me what your involvement was in the 80's & 90's?

Serious question. .......do any of the guys involved EVER think to say to Aunty Beeb "you know you really out to talk to X, Y & Z about this, that & the other to tell the full story"? Do you think that happens, or is there an element of self-preservation in that it would take the spotlight off them?

I'm not too fussed in the sense that I'm not really part of the rare soul scene, but I can understand why people might be seething about these programs, I really can! Ifind myself seriously empathising with them......I feel their pain so to speak.

I'm sure the "we've sorted it all out now" comment had a good many blowing off steam!!

Cheers,

Mark R

[Mark R]

Is a mention of NS influence on 80's pop music the best that can be done? It would be better to say nothing at all than say that!!

Cheers,

Mark R

Edited July 26, 2014 by Mark R

[Jim Elliott]

As an aside though, it was good to see Arthur Scargill was alive and well ( or was it my nan?)

Jim;)

[Kegsy]

 

 

Levine on a mission is always a terrifying prospect. That's what you get with compulsive obsessives. Sure, he had some major advantages to be able to get there in the first place, but he really didn't f*ck around once there. He has very very good ears. No one else in the world would have given "Hung Up On Your Love" or "It Really Hurts Me Girl" a spin back then. He found 'em, played 'em first and persevered with 'em, which is why, despite his multiple personality flaws, I can't help but to continue to respect him. He's always put me onto great records including my favorite record of all-time, so he's down with me. Also, I should point out that Levine ALWAYS gives credit to the people who put him onto records first. He's very honorable like that in my view. 

 

 

Ian D 

 

Ian would always play records to Bernie Golding, Andy Hanley, Andy Simpson, Colin, Johnny Beggs (I think) and a few others

at his house on a Saturday afternoon before the Mecca.

He would get their opinions before playing anything at the Mecca.

I remember being there one day when he said "Do you think this would fill the floor" or words to that affect

and then played Thumb A Ride. No disrespect to Ian but I would say Colin was the one with the ears, for the less obvious 70's stuff,

that got played in the last hour when many had left for Wigan.

[Colouredman]

Well where do I start???? Another good television ruined coz I threw my shoes at it!!! A few observations..........

 

1. When are these F----Wits gonna realise you cant cover a nearly 50 year old subculture in 1 hour???It needs more like 10 x 1 hour documentaries, shown over a period of weeks.

2. We never needed 'celebrities or showbiz names (Pete Waterman, Stringfellow, Lisa Stanfield etc) to validate our music and we dont need it now.........not now not ever! When Northern was considered the devil incarnate and Wigan was in the news for all the 'wrong' reasons, you couldnt see a celebrity trying to hang their hat on a Northern peg then! Bandwagon - Jumpers!

3. The only sense, focus, and insight came largely from those who have been there and done it.......Colin, Richard, Ian, Kev, Russ............what a goddam coincidence!! Again when are these numnuts at the BBC gonna realise that the only people who will ever be able to get a documentary on Northern right, is the people who were deeply immersed in it!

4. We've been getting a poor documentary on average about every 10 years or more, starting with England this England'I guess; the saving grace in that was our own Dave Withers; I was proud of him then and Im proud of him now, coz he tried his best to convey what its about in an intelligent and articulate way. One day some one will get this right, and do it properly.

5. The consultant to that film needs shooting........youve got 1 hour of edited-down material to present, and you think you need to use up that precious hour giving Pete Waterman, Peter Stringfellow, and Tony Blackburn etc, some of that valuable airtime, but not Chris Burton, or Butch, or Adey Croasdell, or Dave Thorley, or Johnny M or John A etc etc etc.

6. Who was the target audience supposed to be? If you knew nothing about northern you would have been well-baffled by the inclusion of the irrelevant nonsense about Wigans Ovation, and Tony Blackburn. Conversely if youre part of the northern scene you would also have been less than enlightened, coz it just didnt do any of justice. They got it wrong with England this England coz apart from Daves worthy inclusions, it was dissapointing; same scenario................why did we have to lose a precious 20 mins of a 1 hour documentary focussing on the irrelevance of industrial England Wigan. They lost the point..................the venue can be anywhere..........at that time it just happened to be Wigan, Stoke before it, and Manchester before that. They got it wrong then and they got it wrong now. Thats what you get when outsiders try and mess about with a genre they dont fully understand.

 

Enough...............I'd better go buy a new telly!!

[Tattoodave]

They used a bootleg copy of Lou Pride when showing a few labels.

I saw that, should be bottle green

[Jim Elliott]

Well where do I start???? Another good television ruined coz I threw my shoes at it!!! A few observations..........

1. When are these F----Wits gonna realise you cant cover a nearly 50 year old subculture in 1 hour???It needs more like 10 x 1 hour documentaries, shown over a period of weeks.

2. We never needed 'celebrities or showbiz names (Pete Waterman, Stringfellow, Lisa Stanfield etc) to validate our music and we dont need it now.........not now not ever! When Northern was considered the devil incarnate and Wigan was in the news for all the 'wrong' reasons, you couldnt see a celebrity trying to hang their hat on a Northern peg then! Bandwagon - Jumpers!

3. The only sense, focus, and insight came largely from those who have been there and done it.......Colin, Richard, Ian, Kev, Russ............what a goddam coincidence!! Again when are these numnuts at the BBC gonna realise that the only people who will ever be able to get a documentary on Northern right, is the people who were deeply immersed in it!

4. We've been getting a poor documentary on average about every 10 years or more, starting with England this England'I guess; the saving grace in that was our own Dave Withers; I was proud of him then and Im proud of him now, coz he tried his best to convey what its about in an intelligent and articulate way. One day some one will get this right, and do it properly.

5. The consultant to that film needs shooting........youve got 1 hour of edited-down material to present, and you think you need to use up that precious hour giving Pete Waterman, Peter Stringfellow, and Tony Blackburn etc, some of that valuable airtime, but not Chris Burton, or Butch, or Adey Croasdell, or Dave Thorley, or Johnny M or John A etc etc etc.

6. Who was the target audience supposed to be? If you knew nothing about northern you would have been well-baffled by the inclusion of the irrelevant nonsense about Wigans Ovation, and Tony Blackburn. Conversely if youre part of the northern scene you would also have been less than enlightened, coz it just didnt do any of justice. They got it wrong with England this England coz apart from Daves worthy inclusions, it was dissapointing; same scenario................why did we have to lose a precious 20 mins of a 1 hour documentary focussing on the irrelevance of industrial England Wigan. They lost the point..................the venue can be anywhere..........at that time it just happened to be Wigan, Stoke before it, and Manchester before that. They got it wrong then and they got it wrong now. Thats what you get when outsiders try and mess about with a genre they dont fully understand.

Enough...............I'd better go buy a new telly!!

Spot on. Spot on. Edited July 26, 2014 by Jim Elliott

[Mark R]

Until they gather enough people to get it right, perhaps it should be called "Northern Soul: Living For Selected Weekends"

Cheers,

Mark R

[Guest gordon russell]

Ian would always play records to Bernie Golding, Andy Hanley, Andy Simpson, Colin, Johnny Beggs (I think) and a few others

at his house on a Saturday afternoon before the Mecca.

He would get their opinions before playing anything at the Mecca.

I remember being there one day when he said "Do you think this would fill the floor" or words to that affect

and then played Thumb A Ride. No disrespect to Ian but I would say Colin was the one with the ears, for the less obvious 70's stuff,

that got played in the last hour when many had left for Wigan.

thumb a ride was played at the torch

[Guest gordon russell]

Until they gather enough people to get it right, perhaps it should be called "Northern Soul: Living For Selected Weekends"

Cheers,

Mark R

All they have to do is ask around on the scene....plenty will point them in the right direction..........how about "Matchie or swish....wilkie from corby...ian clarke.........all can be found without to much trouble,many more as well

[Mark Bicknell]

Well where do I start???? Another good television ruined coz I threw my shoes at it!!! A few observations..........

 

1. When are these F----Wits gonna realise you cant cover a nearly 50 year old subculture in 1 hour???It needs more like 10 x 1 hour documentaries, shown over a period of weeks.

2. We never needed 'celebrities or showbiz names (Pete Waterman, Stringfellow, Lisa Stanfield etc) to validate our music and we dont need it now.........not now not ever! When Northern was considered the devil incarnate and Wigan was in the news for all the 'wrong' reasons, you couldnt see a celebrity trying to hang their hat on a Northern peg then! Bandwagon - Jumpers!

3. The only sense, focus, and insight came largely from those who have been there and done it.......Colin, Richard, Ian, Kev, Russ............what a goddam coincidence!! Again when are these numnuts at the BBC gonna realise that the only people who will ever be able to get a documentary on Northern right, is the people who were deeply immersed in it!

4. We've been getting a poor documentary on average about every 10 years or more, starting with England this England'I guess; the saving grace in that was our own Dave Withers; I was proud of him then and Im proud of him now, coz he tried his best to convey what its about in an intelligent and articulate way. One day some one will get this right, and do it properly.

5. The consultant to that film needs shooting........youve got 1 hour of edited-down material to present, and you think you need to use up that precious hour giving Pete Waterman, Peter Stringfellow, and Tony Blackburn etc, some of that valuable airtime, but not Chris Burton, or Butch, or Adey Croasdell, or Dave Thorley, or Johnny M or John A etc etc etc.

6. Who was the target audience supposed to be? If you knew nothing about northern you would have been well-baffled by the inclusion of the irrelevant nonsense about Wigans Ovation, and Tony Blackburn. Conversely if youre part of the northern scene you would also have been less than enlightened, coz it just didnt do any of justice. They got it wrong with England this England coz apart from Daves worthy inclusions, it was dissapointing; same scenario................why did we have to lose a precious 20 mins of a 1 hour documentary focussing on the irrelevance of industrial England Wigan. They lost the point..................the venue can be anywhere..........at that time it just happened to be Wigan, Stoke before it, and Manchester before that. They got it wrong then and they got it wrong now. Thats what you get when outsiders try and mess about with a genre they dont fully understand.

 

Enough...............I'd better go buy a new telly!!

Asda do a really decent Polaroid tele under 300.00 quid with Freeview lol

[Tattoodave]

Watched it this morning, thanks to whoever posted it on Youtube or whatever it's called.  Always feel appalled that they cover the same ground mostly that has been done before, and never improve on what has been shown or is readily viewable if you care to search in these easily accessible search engine days, not a mention of the 80's discoveries and the crossover scene, the current big name DJ's, not the fossils.  I'd be more interested in seeing something about the Stafford days and the plethora of stunning tracks that got to be heard there, still, if Ian D is right, it may well be on the cards, and I'll get to see it before I draw my pension.

[Julianb]

Well where do I start???? Another good television ruined coz I threw my shoes at it!!! A few observations..........

 

1. When are these F----Wits gonna realise you cant cover a nearly 50 year old subculture in 1 hour???It needs more like 10 x 1 hour documentaries, shown over a period of weeks.

 

 

Does Mr Levine's SWONS fit into the 10 hour category?

[Kegsy]

thumb a ride was played at the torch

 

And your point is, given that Ian, Colin and Tony Jebb all Dj'ed there ?

[Triode]

I found it rather sad there was not one mention of one of the true gentlemen of the scene - Soul Sam?

I know he has not been well recently & I hope he is back doing what he does soon,

As far as the erasing of history ie. rare soul in the "80's & 90's" I'm not in the slightest bit surprised after all there was no "corporate" big bucks to be made at that time so the big boys had moved on to new more profitable pickings only to return when the cash cow called!

all that is fine by me they are business men first ........... but not saviours of the scene.

[Mark R]

As far as the erasing of history ie. rare soul in the "80's & 90's" I'm not in the slightest bit surprised after all there was no "corporate" big bucks to be made at that time so the big boys had moved on to new more profitable pickings only to return when the cash cow called!

all that is fine by me they are business men first ........... but not saviours of the scene.

I guess most wouldn't argue with that as long as those same people aren't also trying to tell you how much they love it all in an organic sense!

Cheers,

Mark R

[Bazza]

Well it was a lot better than I expected, Levine turned into a menace at one time ,still very much up his own arse ,I don't usually go in for this nostalgia thing ,or the so called N/S films.but I did quite enjoy it  

 

Bazza  

[Amsterdam Russ]

Also available to watch/download on YouTube as a single file...

 

https://youtu.be/-krEap_FGco

[Soul16]

Watched it this morning, thanks to whoever posted it on Youtube or whatever it's called.  Always feel appalled that they cover the same ground mostly that has been done before, and never improve on what has been shown or is readily viewable if you care to search in these easily accessible search engine days, not a mention of the 80's discoveries and the crossover scene, the current big name DJ's, not the fossils.  I'd be more interested in seeing something about the Stafford days and the plethora of stunning tracks that got to be heard there, still, if Ian D is right, it may well be on the cards, and I'll get to see it before I draw my pension.

Yep, a documentary covering the 80's would be nice.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Soul16

[Guest Matt Male]

I just hope Bill Brewster doesn't become a go-to person for these programmes in future. I've never heard so much second hand s**t in my entire life as came out of his mouth.

[Guest Krissii]

I'm not part of the original crew but it annoyed me to watch it, I grew up listening to poor Levine 80's drum machine soul so always kind of saw him as one of the people who diluted the raw sound I love with his bontempi sounds. knew he was a part of things like the Montclairs and Carstairs and Skip Mahoney and Nolan Porter and PP Mitchell etc, but had no idea he was playing commercial stuff like Sylvester just to piss people off, didn't know there was a Levine Must Go campaign, so that aspect of it was new to me. I'm glad he said he'd gone too far, I would consider myself as a 'purist' even though I never went to Wigan or the Wheel or the Torch or the Mecca etc.

 

 

It's a shame that Russ lost his way as well, the Barry Gray Orchestra shouldn't have been anywhere near Wigan!! Why does everyone have to go on about the Lenny Gamble thing as well, it kind of made the scene look like a joke the way BBC4 depicted it I think. I went to my first nighter in 1998 so anything from before that was unknown to me. It's only through talking to people on the scene that I've learned things, and I'm proud to know a lot of people who had the time and patience to tell me interesting stories and put me on the right track with vinyl and so on. I've always been against McAleer and the whole Pye reissue crap, I don't understand how things like 'Footsee' ever got included with it. Luckily I caught n/s while people were still happy to make tapes for me of their rarities and gave me Kent and Ace LP's and bootlegs on the cheap to get me started.

I think if you were a kid now and saw Pete Waterman and the like saying 'oh yeah it's just like Pharell Happy' you would definitely only get as far as The Snake and Out On the Floor and think that's as deep as it went. You'd probably like Wigan's Ovation and Wayne Gibson, and consider them to be rare records. The whole thing really p'd me off, I ended up shouting at the TV towards the end!

It was nice to see Colin Curtis and Ian Dewhurst on there talking sense, I used to talk to Kev a bit when I worked in Stoke and he had a record shop, he lost my respect though over the whole Goldmine going into liquidation thing, as if the artists who supplied us all with that amazing music hadn't got enough of a raw deal the first time round with collectors trading things they'd long forgotten about for big money with them having no idea they were even being listened to, then they were all reissued to CD to not be paid for that either! It's unfair I think to credit people like Levine for 'discovering' things when we're not even acknowledging the people who wrote and recorded them! No mention of the DB on London discovery either. 

 

Disappointing all round for me! Keep it 100mph

 

 

[Bazza]

 

I'm not part of the original crew but it annoyed me to watch it, I grew up listening to poor Levine 80's drum machine soul so always kind of saw him as one of the people who diluted the raw sound I love with his bontempi sounds. knew he was a part of things like the Montclairs and Carstairs and Skip Mahoney and Nolan Porter and PP Mitchell etc, but had no idea he was playing commercial stuff like Sylvester just to piss people off, didn't know there was a Levine Must Go campaign, so that aspect of it was new to me. I'm glad he said he'd gone too far, I would consider myself as a 'purist' even though I never went to Wigan or the Wheel or the Torch or the Mecca etc.

 

 

It's a shame that Russ lost his way as well, the Barry Gray Orchestra shouldn't have been anywhere near Wigan!! Why does everyone have to go on about the Lenny Gamble thing as well, it kind of made the scene look like a joke the way BBC4 depicted it I think. I went to my first nighter in 1998 so anything from before that was unknown to me. It's only through talking to people on the scene that I've learned things, and I'm proud to know a lot of people who had the time and patience to tell me interesting stories and put me on the right track with vinyl and so on. I've always been against McAleer and the whole Pye reissue crap, I don't understand how things like 'Footsee' ever got included with it. Luckily I caught n/s while people were still happy to make tapes for me of their rarities and gave me Kent and Ace LP's and bootlegs on the cheap to get me started.

I think if you were a kid now and saw Pete Waterman and the like saying 'oh yeah it's just like Pharell Happy' you would definitely only get as far as The Snake and Out On the Floor and think that's as deep as it went. You'd probably like Wigan's Ovation and Wayne Gibson, and consider them to be rare records. The whole thing really p'd me off, I ended up shouting at the TV towards the end!

It was nice to see Colin Curtis and Ian Dewhurst on there talking sense, I used to talk to Kev a bit when I worked in Stoke and he had a record shop, he lost my respect though over the whole Goldmine going into liquidation thing, as if the artists who supplied us all with that amazing music hadn't got enough of a raw deal the first time round with collectors trading things they'd long forgotten about for big money with them having no idea they were even being listened to, then they were all reissued to CD to not be paid for that either! It's unfair I think to credit people like Levine for 'discovering' things when we're not even acknowledging the people who wrote and recorded them! No mention of the DB on London discovery either. 

 

Disappointing all round for me! Keep it 100mph

 

 

Nice post apart from the bit I've highlighted ,this is a misconception because it was not all about 100mph 

 

Bazza  

Edited July 26, 2014 by Bazza

[Goldsoul]

 

I'm not part of the original crew but it annoyed me to watch it, I grew up listening to poor Levine 80's drum machine soul so always kind of saw him as one of the people who diluted the raw sound I love with his bontempi sounds. knew he was a part of things like the Montclairs and Carstairs and Skip Mahoney and Nolan Porter and PP Mitchell etc, but had no idea he was playing commercial stuff like Sylvester just to piss people off, didn't know there was a Levine Must Go campaign, so that aspect of it was new to me. I'm glad he said he'd gone too far, I would consider myself as a 'purist' even though I never went to Wigan or the Wheel or the Torch or the Mecca etc.

 

 

It's a shame that Russ lost his way as well, the Barry Gray Orchestra shouldn't have been anywhere near Wigan!! Why does everyone have to go on about the Lenny Gamble thing as well, it kind of made the scene look like a joke the way BBC4 depicted it I think. I went to my first nighter in 1998 so anything from before that was unknown to me. It's only through talking to people on the scene that I've learned things, and I'm proud to know a lot of people who had the time and patience to tell me interesting stories and put me on the right track with vinyl and so on. I've always been against McAleer and the whole Pye reissue crap, I don't understand how things like 'Footsee' ever got included with it. Luckily I caught n/s while people were still happy to make tapes for me of their rarities and gave me Kent and Ace LP's and bootlegs on the cheap to get me started.

I think if you were a kid now and saw Pete Waterman and the like saying 'oh yeah it's just like Pharell Happy' you would definitely only get as far as The Snake and Out On the Floor and think that's as deep as it went. You'd probably like Wigan's Ovation and Wayne Gibson, and consider them to be rare records. The whole thing really p'd me off, I ended up shouting at the TV towards the end!

It was nice to see Colin Curtis and Ian Dewhurst on there talking sense, I used to talk to Kev a bit when I worked in Stoke and he had a record shop, he lost my respect though over the whole Goldmine going into liquidation thing, as if the artists who supplied us all with that amazing music hadn't got enough of a raw deal the first time round with collectors trading things they'd long forgotten about for big money with them having no idea they were even being listened to, then they were all reissued to CD to not be paid for that either! It's unfair I think to credit people like Levine for 'discovering' things when we're not even acknowledging the people who wrote and recorded them! No mention of the DB on London discovery either. 

 

Disappointing all round for me! Keep it 100mph

 

 

 

Krissii........I departed Goldmine in 2003 after 11 years helping the label establish itself. The company wound down 6 years after I left!

Edited July 26, 2014 by The Golden 101

[Guest Johnny One Trout]

I think Gregory Porter would have been more representative...Pharrells Happy is divvy pop music...

 

I love Gregory Porter but he is straight up Jazz how is that more appropriate?

[Quinvy]

The only thing I would say to you Krissii is this. It's very easy to dismiss some of the records that were played back in the day. Footsee, The Snake etc. but these were huge records at the time, and believe me, the people who say they never liked them are lying through their teeth. We were very young, and the music and our tastes have changed over the years, but they were different times. All those tunes, with the exception of the truly awful Wigans Ovation would ram any dancefloor.

 

Appart from that I agree with all you say. 

[Pete S]

so sugar by honey bunch is as amphetamine driven 100mph sound...my arse!

 

I think they are correct, I C H M really is the template for thousands of Northern records, the only trouble is, the clip they showed was of a live version with some band playing it and sounded nothing like the original.

[Pete S]

Northern soul IMO was trying to get away from the 444 motown sound so it couldn't be labelled as just another motown copy How the Phook can even these classics have a 444 beat Mel Britt/ The Jades / Frankie Crocker/ Sam Ambrose / Roscoe & friends/ danny Monday/Jerry Fuller/ The Crow/Carstairs larry Williams & Johnny Watson / Sandi Sheldon. matt Lucas etcv etc etc . infact take the top 500 and find out how many have a 444 beat? less than 10 % I would think!

 

Most of those have a 4/4 beat

[Dave2]

Thought it was good.  I liked the contributions from Richard & Ian D. - well done guys!

 

I imagine lots of interview footage was shot, but cut to a minimum.  80's and 90's could have interviewed those pioneers that carried the scene forward i.e. Stafford, 100club (no interviews from Dave Thorley, Ady, Soul Sam, Butch, etc) what about the noughties's and present day? - not just revival anniversaries /club,. the 'European' scene and Japan, what's happening there?

 

Liked the bit about Wigan tunes not always to everyone's taste, and it did document the so called split of the scene - pure v modern with Ian Levine fessing to 'going to far' with disco-esque tracks.  -DJs have to play what's popular don't they?,  if people are gonna dance to Sylvester and Joe 90, what's the problem?

 

A good documentary should have stories, and it did (Tony Blackburn pseudo-signing records, Ian D's clean cut 'dedicated driver' image, Ian Levines dad bollocking him 'cos the aircrafts gonna crash massively overloaded with a 4k box count).  But there's way better stories out there, isn't there? - the Wigan Sunglasses, 'car borrowing', Simon Soussan, Ian D catching his nuts on pole! (that's on here somewhere?), but at least it had something.   

 

Disliked the way they tried to solidly link Northern to other UK music as if to say; its always been there!- it had fu*k all to do with new wave/ electronica (albeit Mark Almonds cover) and the passion is a million miles away from 80's rave scene - that's how it came across to me.  

 

Great to see Fran Franklin; nice touch at the end, and she made a brilliant point; NS dance evolved naturally with kids completely free to express themselves on the floor -without outside influence from sh*t chart music, so, defining Northern Soul as totally unique to those that were there, and made it happen. 

 

And young souls today; dress sharp, pull some awesome moves and interpret it their own way.

Edited July 26, 2014 by dave2

[Pete S]

Ian as the scene is now  big in Europe you will hear a lot of the Jazz funk and discofied sounds that Ian Lev played because the Europeans are not blinded by the apartheid views of the uk scene in  late 70s.. They don't have the historical prejudices so you will hear those you quoted! Not on a regular basis but definitely in a European Djs set. Ps as people have Wigan nites the Mecca annual night is littered with them! Just have alook on The Mecca Page on facebook!

 

They're welcome to them...

[Mark Bicknell]

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Edited July 26, 2014 by Mark Bicknell

[KevH]

I thought it was very well done. Great to see Colin Curtis appear and get the recognition he deserves, big shock to hear Ian Levine say he went too far and nice to hear him make a measured contribution. I thought he came across well. Excellent contributions from Ian D and from Richard.

 

I guess the story had to stop in 1980 when everything stopped sounding like I Can't Help Myself!

 

Yes i was glad to hear IL say that as well.Hindsight etc etc.....

[Mike]

How dare you slag the boy's off, some of my WO memories, wonderful lol

 

 

 

 

mark

no need for these 'joke' posts of yours nowadays

can you drop posting em please

am sure more would appreciate your actual views

thanks

mike

[Guest Soulskate70]

As a documentary on BBC4 aimed at a mainstream audience I thought the programme was on the whole informative and entertaining. In an hour you're never going to be able to cover an "entire scene", and the general viewing public would become pretty bored with something that went into real depth - that would only interest real soul fans. As expected the show concentrated on the "nostalgia" of the the 1970's, but I kind of expected this... To many the scene is stuck in the 70's. If you mention Northern Soul to most people of a certain age, they will immediately think of Wigan Casino.... I do feel these documentaries give the impression everyone into Soul has to dress in silly trousers and a vest, which just isn't the case, and I personally can't stand the "70's throwback" look in the day and age.

I'm way too young to have ever visited any of the famous-clubs on the 70s/80s, but I really enjoy watching all the old archive footage. I do think a companion piece to this documentary would be nice, like many people have metioned, showing how the scene continued, and later went global...

[Guest Krissii]

In that case I apologise Kev, I have always respected you for what you've done soul wise anyway... I don't know if you remember me coming into that shop in Hanley on my lunch break every day and asking you loads of questions about record collecting, this was probably 2002ish. 

I know it wasn't 100mph, I'm just saying I love 100mph soul and if you type in 'northern soul' on ebay or youtube these days you'll usually find 10 popcorn tunes long before you find a stomper... I love the slower stuff as well like Gene McDaniels 'It's a Lonely Town' and Steve Mancha 'He Stole The Love' etc, it just seems that there's a flood nowadays of Doug Banks-ish kind of tunes that I can't get into. Also 'Pyramid' by Soul Bros Inc is one of my favourite tunes... I just prefer dancing to stuff like Dana Valery and The Tempests and so on.

 

I'm into this gospel funk kind of sound as well at the moment, it's a shame that the evolution of the scene isn't documented in the program, instead it's just the same old stuff as was mentioned in the late 90's ITV one with Edwin Starr and Brenda Holloway on it etc... 

I still love the 'purist' view of n/s, that's all I'm saying. I don't think PW's opinion counts for much soul wise, I'd much rather listen to what Ginger or Soul Sam or Butch have to say regarding n/s! 

It's like that Russ on Paul O'Grady thing, I think it makes n/s look a bit embarrassing instead of portraying an amazing underground scene we should all be proud of

No offence to anyone, just my opinion!
 

[Pete S]

I'd like to see someone sex these programmes up a bit, take a bit of a risk.

Ian Dewhirst was good & still has his own hair & came across well, Russ, Kev, Levine etc look like they should be in an old folks home.

Brewster, Almond (as much as i love him), Stringfellow, Jay, Waterman have nothing whatsoever to do with Northern Soul, well i've never seen them out & about or talked about in my 20/30 years of doing Northern Soul.

I'd like to see Ady C, Butch, Pete Smith, Jo Wallace, Alan H, Dave Flynn, Andy Rix, Chalky, Russ Vickers , Dave Moore & countless others who have made Northen Soul what it is today from the eighties onwards.

Yes that's a good 30 years plus, last night only represented a very small space in time that was here & gone very quickly.

 

Never felt so humble, thanks for including me in with those people 

[KevH]

Can someone name a few of the records out of that haul please? 

 

You've probably got them all filed away.

[Pete S]

Well where do I start???? Another good television ruined coz I threw my shoes at it!!! A few observations..........

 

1. When are these F----Wits gonna realise you cant cover a nearly 50 year old subculture in 1 hour???It needs more like 10 x 1 hour documentaries, shown over a period of weeks.

2. We never needed 'celebrities or showbiz names (Pete Waterman, Stringfellow, Lisa Stanfield etc) to validate our music and we dont need it now.........not now not ever! When Northern was considered the devil incarnate and Wigan was in the news for all the 'wrong' reasons, you couldnt see a celebrity trying to hang their hat on a Northern peg then! Bandwagon - Jumpers!

3. The only sense, focus, and insight came largely from those who have been there and done it.......Colin, Richard, Ian, Kev, Russ............what a goddam coincidence!! Again when are these numnuts at the BBC gonna realise that the only people who will ever be able to get a documentary on Northern right, is the people who were deeply immersed in it!

4. We've been getting a poor documentary on average about every 10 years or more, starting with England this England'I guess; the saving grace in that was our own Dave Withers; I was proud of him then and Im proud of him now, coz he tried his best to convey what its about in an intelligent and articulate way. One day some one will get this right, and do it properly.

5. The consultant to that film needs shooting........youve got 1 hour of edited-down material to present, and you think you need to use up that precious hour giving Pete Waterman, Peter Stringfellow, and Tony Blackburn etc, some of that valuable airtime, but not Chris Burton, or Butch, or Adey Croasdell, or Dave Thorley, or Johnny M or John A etc etc etc.

6. Who was the target audience supposed to be? If you knew nothing about northern you would have been well-baffled by the inclusion of the irrelevant nonsense about Wigans Ovation, and Tony Blackburn. Conversely if youre part of the northern scene you would also have been less than enlightened, coz it just didnt do any of justice. They got it wrong with England this England coz apart from Daves worthy inclusions, it was dissapointing; same scenario................why did we have to lose a precious 20 mins of a 1 hour documentary focussing on the irrelevance of industrial England Wigan. They lost the point..................the venue can be anywhere..........at that time it just happened to be Wigan, Stoke before it, and Manchester before that. They got it wrong then and they got it wrong now. Thats what you get when outsiders try and mess about with a genre they dont fully understand.

 

Enough...............I'd better go buy a new telly!!

 

Tim - the target audience was probably both people like my Mom, 73 years old, said she couldn't wait to see it after seeing the advert for it (Pete do you remember when you used to wear trousers like that and stay out every satuday, and you had such big eyes in those days), and the younger people now getting into the scene.

[KevH]

Norman Jay, he knows what he's talking about! Plus WTF is Bill Brewster? Peter Stingfellow, Pete Waterman, Marc Almond ???

Pass me the sick bucket, load o' b*llocks as usual 

 

Norman Jay,nice bloke,but just a NS fan. Like my Mum and Dad.Their fave record is Millie Jackson - House for sale.

Edited February 7, 2015 by pikeys dog
swearing - workplace filters

[KevH]

Ian would always play records to Bernie Golding, Andy Hanley, Andy Simpson, Colin, Johnny Beggs (I think) and a few others

at his house on a Saturday afternoon before the Mecca.

He would get their opinions before playing anything at the Mecca.

I remember being there one day when he said "Do you think this would fill the floor" or words to that affect

and then played Thumb A Ride. No disrespect to Ian but I would say Colin was the one with the ears, for the less obvious 70's stuff,

that got played in the last hour when many had left for Wigan.

 

That's strange because i picked up on the general feeling as well re:"Colin the one with the ears.".Was whispered a few times in darkened corners.Again,no disrespect to Ian.

[Mark Bicknell]

mark

no need for these 'joke' posts of yours nowadays

can you drop posting em please

am sure more would appreciate your actual views

thanks

mike

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