Todays Cheapies, Tomorrows Big Money Records

[Russ Vickers]

Following on from the thread about Wade Flemons & Turley Richards discs & the massive price they made in auction recently, what tut box cheapies do you think will be fetching the big bucks in 10 years time ?.

 

Russ

[Jordirip]

Following on from the thread about Wade Flemons & Turley Richards discs & the massive price they made in auction recently, what tut box cheapies do you think will be fetching the big bucks in 10 years time ?.

 

Russ

 

Now that's the Mystic Meg question we would all love to know Russ. If only I had a time machine. It's impossible to predict when things like Mighty Lovers - 'Ain't gonna run no more' start going for massive bucks when it was always a £25 tune and it's not even what you would call an out and out dancer, then you get tunes like Ray Hines and Jacqueline Jones going for £200 a piece after years of staying rigidly at a certain price (£75 for J.Jones, much cheaper for Ray Hines). I suppose it depends who gets behind the tunes and how many people get to hear them played out.

[Patto]

I have an idea that the younger generation of soulies will eventually move away from the traditional Wigan Standard Oldies much in the same way we did when we were their age ,and search for something different to forge their own way.So i can see the reactivation of some of the Stafford plays along with the more uptempo funky sounds that are in vogue at the moment.These Big prices are still being paid by the Oldies DJs for played out oldies, but once they are replaced by the younger guys a whole new sound will be indemand.In my Opinion look for the stuff that gets played in the Underplayed R&B and Boogaloo rooms and venues such as the Black Bee club for the next big ticket items.People say there will always be top prices paid for the big oldies and at the moment that is true but ten years from now the soulnight playlists could be a lot different.

[Mal C]

Cool, if I stay at the polar opposite of 'Trendy' I can get all those tracks I love, Cheap! second and third time around...

 

Or not....

Edited June 30, 2014 by Mal C

[AlanB]

Tommy Rodgers - Spread the Word was listed by Anglo American for £25 just 2 years ago and has been steadily rising since.  I wouldn't be surprised if that ended up as an expensive record.    

[Guest]

Hold On -Jackie Beavers - Sound Stage 7.

Surprised this has not had a resurgence. Great vocal and Northern type R&B backing track that has become more popular of late.

Also Andrew Brown "Lets Go Together" and Naturelles "Love Has Joined Us Together".

Edited July 1, 2014 by Guest

[Tailormade Gaz B]

Tommy Rodgers - Spread the Word was listed by Anglo American for £25 just 2 years ago and has been steadily rising since.  I wouldn't be surprised if that ended up as an expensive record.    

I think it is an expensive record now - I got one for £80 - I think its nearing £200 now - recent sales have basically gone up in increments of of £25.00

Re anything else, I can only speak from experience but Teddy and the Finger Poppers is another. Had two, sold the spare for £100! And it could have gone 3 times over the day I listed it with PM's and questions.

Another is the Fabulastics - Nothing but Determination on Great Potential. I got 3 of them and couldn't give them away and then someone must have played it because they went out the door in a flash, all within a week and now they're £150 a piece on discogs etc. 

Teddy is great, but the Fabulastics is an awful record in my opinion - I couldn't ever get it to work in with anything else I owned, but its working for others and the price reflects it. 

Edited July 3, 2014 by TailorMade Gaz B

[Geeselad]

I cant seriously believe there wil be any scene to speak of in ten years.

[25miles]

I cant seriously believe there wil be any scene to speak of in ten years.

lets hope you are right.............then we will have to find a proper hobby assuming we live that long

[jocko]

Hold On -Jackie Beavers - Sound Stage 7.

Surprised this has not had a resurgence. Great vocal and Northern type R&B backing track that has become more popular of late.

Also Andrew Brown "Lets Go Together" and Naturelles "Love Has Joined Us Together".

 

Okay, well I have all 3 of these, so can someone tip me when they are at their peak and sales here I come

 

I have done well over last few years with things just lying around, but its getting it right, and these are things that I have had for years. Buying just to predict the next big thing is fraught with danger, hence why you see so many bald dj's, having pulled thier hair out once they have listened to the next big thing more closely, oops!

 

However, when you do find that next big thing, thats when all the ballache of the hunt is worth it, x 1000000. Better than sex. I do miss that (the hunt, not the ballache or the sex, just to be clear!)

Edited July 4, 2014 by jocko

[KevH]

Hold On -Jackie Beavers - Sound Stage 7.

Surprised this has not had a resurgence. Great vocal and Northern type R&B backing track that has become more popular of late.

Also Andrew Brown "Lets Go Together" and Naturelles "Love Has Joined Us Together".

 

The Jaber label of JB might be a tad more desirable,good record.

[Geeselad]

I think it is an expensive record now - I got one for £80 - I think its nearing £200 now - recent sales have basically gone up in increments of of £25.00

Re anything else, I can only speak from experience but Teddy and the Finger Poppers is another. Had two, sold the spare for £100! And it could have gone 3 times over the day I listed it with PM's and questions.

Another is the Fabulastics - Nothing but Determination on Great Potential. I got 3 of them and couldn't give them away and then someone must have played it because they went out the door in a flash, all within a week and now they're £150 a piece on discogs etc. 

Teddy is great, but the Fabulastics is an awful record in my opinion - I couldn't ever get it to work in with anything else I owned, but its working for others and the price reflects it. 

 If vic and Bob did northern soul it would sound like that determinations record, it really is shite, the harmonies are laughable, its actually peverse to think that people are seriously playing it. Really pleasd to get £150 trade for it 18 months ago. 

[Geeselad]

Be interesting to know, (it there is indeed a scene) what style they will be the latest thing after the funky thang has run its course, 70's and 80's? soulful midtempo?  any thoughts?

[jocko]

The Jaber label of JB might be a tad more desirable,good record.

 

I did play it once or twice back in the day, but even then dancers were looking confused at the tempo and vocals not quite fitting together, just like I like them, a bit quirky and amazing vocals from the reverend.

 

On topic, I suppose the Ballads on Music City may be the latest for the rise and fall in price, although I suspect a certain dealer may still have enought to stop it rising too far, more Ace Spectrum like than Wade Flemons I suspect. And its not even the best version, have I said that before......

[jocko]

Be interesting to know, (it there is indeed a scene) what style they will be the latest thing after the funky thang has run its course, 70's and 80's? soulful midtempo?  any thoughts?

 

I think the 70's is now in the nostalgia scene timescale, with better music and less bad dress admittedly, but generally most venues and particularly weekenders its massive anthems, Charles Johnson etc etc , although there are still some people fighting against the tide.

 

I suspect the 70's bit is going to get worse as an element of 60's only seem to now see that as progression, even though they only want records that have been played consistently since the early Southports, and some even earlier such as Charles Johnson, Phillip Mitchell etc.

 

The 80's, particularly the first half of the decade, however has legs and interestingly its the one Europe seems to be mining deep at the moment, Lars B, the Scandinavian crew, and of course Butch leading the way for them along with people like Dave Rippoles, Malayka, Mr Thorley etc etc..  Some great music and some rare records in there, I understand why the 80's is not for everyone but places like Bamberg show how good it is when done right, and when mixed in.  Its the one last thing that gets me excited long term, other than early 90's house but I really don't want to to hear that at a soul venue, sorry!

[Russ Vickers]

I agree whole heartedly with the above post, 8ts will continue to become programmed more & more, those that 'get it' are already mining the stuff & sooo much more than a dodgy synthesiser when you dig deep....

 

But there will still be a scene, by then the nostalgia crowd will have long gone & the money grabbing soul less promoters with them, we'll have a smaller but infinitly better scene, with a Stafford like venue rising from the ashes to be the last great soul Allnighter, it will be our last horrahhh in the UK, but I think we'll go out with a bang... now Europe is another thing entirely & I think European/Anglo European venues will dominate a small but soulful scene.

 

Best Russ

[Kev John]

Be interesting to know, (it there is indeed a scene) what style they will be the latest thing after the funky thang has run its course, 70's and 80's? soulful midtempo?  any thoughts?

Well geese you'll be around a lot longer than me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

 

I think the scene will still be around a lot longer than 10yrs my nephew as gone into the Mod/scooter scene.

 

i've just given him his 1st 50 records tostart him off collecting & djing his 1st spot was at Outer Circle Scooter Club in May  he's only 15  but he as got across the Board tastes in Soul music 

 

atb Kev 

Edited July 4, 2014 by Kev John

[pow wow mik]

I think the 70's is now in the nostalgia scene timescale, with better music and less bad dress admittedly, but generally most venues and particularly weekenders its massive anthems, Charles Johnson etc etc , although there are still some people fighting against the tide.

I suspect the 70's bit is going to get worse as an element of 60's only seem to now see that as progression, even though they only want records that have been played consistently since the early Southports, and some even earlier such as Charles Johnson, Phillip Mitchell etc.

The 80's, particularly the first half of the decade, however has legs and interestingly its the one Europe seems to be mining deep at the moment, Lars B, the Scandinavian crew, and of course Butch leading the way for them along with people like Dave Rippoles, Malayka, Mr Thorley etc etc.. Some great music and some rare records in there, I understand why the 80's is not for everyone but places like Bamberg show how good it is when done right, and when mixed in. Its the one last thing that gets me excited long term, other than early 90's house but I really don't want to to hear that at a soul venue, sorry!

I think that if you're already a soul connoiseur then 80s soul will likely tick enough boxes for you to enjoy it, but would it attract newcomers to a club or to a scene; would it sustain a passionate scene?

while I like it, it just doesn't have those incredible other-worldly qualities that music from the 60s and 70s does. The playing and orchestration on records from the golden era is mind boggling, and is rare in the sense that you almost couldn't replicate it.

anyone, an aficionado of soul or not, would marvel at good 60s or 70s productions, it's over-engineered and simply impressive as musical and human achievement.

on top of that, it was the cutting edge of popular culture in the 60s and 70s and that vitality can be felt now - it spoke of and to all people.

soul in the 80s, like jazz, had passed it's most creative phase surely, or at least it coincided with a less creative era in music and culture generally..

not saying 80s soul is bad music, but is it impressive enough to bring together 100s of people from different generations and cultures?

i think, rather than progress into whole new styles, the mood just evolves, as it always has done. You could do a 'now' sounding set out of wigan oldies by just playing the gritty and moody ones, and eliminating the major key poppy sounding ones.

i find it ridiculous when i hear that we, or younger generations, will somehow get bored of the incredible catalogue of 50s, 60s and 70s soul now known. Even with no new discoveries, we know enough to keep us entertained for several lifetimes without needing to expand into more marginal styles.I

Edited July 4, 2014 by pow wow mik

[Keeper]

Well geese you'll be around a lot longer than me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

 

I think the scene will still be around a lot longer than 10yrs my nephew as gone into the Mod/scooter scene.

 

i've just given him his 1st 50 records tostart him off collecting & djing his 1st spot was at Outer Circle Scooter Club in May  he's only 15  but he as got across the Board tastes in Soul music 

 

atb Kev 

Dear Uncle Kev you know that old Eddie Parker record you have ...........nah its never gonna work !!!! but hats off to you what a great thing to do 

[Swifty]

Be interesting to know, (it there is indeed a scene) what style they will be the latest thing after the funky thang has run its course, 70's and 80's? soulful midtempo?  any thoughts?

70's I hope Geese , there must be still loads of good dancers to be found , can't be doing with most of the Funky/Gospel stuff to be honest

[Russ Vickers]

I think that if you're already a soul connoiseur then 80s soul will likely tick enough boxes for you to enjoy it, but would it attract newcomers to a club or to a scene; would it sustain a passionate scene?

while I like it, it just doesn't have those incredible other-worldly qualities that music from the 60s and 70s does. The playing and orchestration on records from the golden era is mind boggling, and is rare in the sense that you almost couldn't replicate it.

anyone, an aficionado of soul or not, would marvel at good 60s or 70s productions, it's over-engineered and simply impressive as musical and human achievement.

on top of that, it was the cutting edge of popular culture in the 60s and 70s and that vitality can be felt now - it spoke of and to all people.

soul in the 80s, like jazz, had passed it's most creative phase surely, or at least it coincided with a less creative era in music and culture generally..

not saying 80s soul is bad music, but is it impressive enough to bring together 100s of people from different generations and cultures?

i think, rather than progress into whole new styles, the mood just evolves, as it always has done. You could do a 'now' sounding set out of wigan oldies by just playing the gritty and moody ones, and eliminating the major key poppy sounding ones.

i find it ridiculous when i hear that we, or younger generations, will somehow get bored of the incredible catalogue of 50s, 60s and 70s soul now known. Even with no new discoveries, we know enough to keep us entertained for several lifetimes without needing to expand into more marginal styles.I

 

I agree Mik, but I think that the 8ts is a relatively unmined sourse of records on the 'Rare Soul' scene & I can see more getting programmed into sets in the near future, its like everything, most of that jarring synthesiser stuff really grates on me, but there will be odd left field things that are just perfect to be fitted into sets of 6ts & 7ts Rare Soul...in fact some are getting played now & it will continue, not complete sets, but odd things that are right & have the X Factor....

 

Best Russ

Edited July 5, 2014 by Russ Vickers

[Russ Vickers]

70's I hope Geese , there must be still loads of good dancers to be found , can't be doing with most of the Funky/Gospel stuff to be honest

 

The Funky/Gospel stuff is like everything else, theres good, bad & indifferent, the good is fantastic tho & well worth the effort....

 

Best Russ

[NEV]

The Funky/Gospel stuff is like everything else, theres good, bad & indifferent, the good is fantastic tho & well worth the effort....

Best Russ

Like everything, if it works it's right , but if it doesn't, it's too far to the left eh

[Mattbolton]

Anyone wondering about the potential quality of unmined 70's soul records should come and pop down this month's 100 Club. If you're a connoisseur of that period one of the DJ's will very likely blow you away.

I agree with Russ that despite our heritage being entrenched in the 60's sound, there's an incredible scope for soulful 70's and 80's music. Once we've gotten to the point where a record from 1980 has become a favoured and regular spin (I'm looking at you here, Rideout) there's not really any turning back. We'd be naïve to think that we should go through the whole Carstairs/Mecca palava again because we came out the other side in a much better place. True fans of soulful music will continue to cherish soulful records irrespective of the year.

At Burnley the other night I was discussing this with Rich Bergman who mentioned that it's almost as if you have to be an apologist for appreciating music that people went to pains to produce properly.

[Wiggyflat]

Tommy Rodgers - Spread the Word was listed by Anglo American for £25 just 2 years ago and has been steadily rising since. I wouldn't be surprised if that ended up as an expensive record.

[Wiggyflat]

Ive just paid £130 for it A quality sixties northern track i heard out at Va Va Voom.Seen it listed at £170 after my want ad.

[Pete S]

I agree Mik, but I think that the 8ts is a relatively unmined sourse of records on the 'Rare Soul' scene & I can see more getting programmed into sets in the near future, its like everything, most of that jarring synthesiser stuff really grates on me, but there will be odd left field things that are just perfect to be fitted into sets of 6ts & 7ts Rare Soul...in fact some are getting played now & it will continue, not complete sets, but odd things that are right & have the X Factor....

 

Best Russ

 

Actually no point saying anything.  So have removed my comment.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Pete S

[Gelderd Ender]

Actually no point saying anything.  So have removed my comment.

THE FOUR VANDALS - WRONG SIDE OF TOWN  that will rocket

mot

[Mellorful]

I try to be a realist and the sums don't lie

Big venue events like Casino ended approx 1980 - Estimated average age of attendees 21, thus date of birth 1959, Ten years time 2024 = 65 years old and that is the younger end of the spectrum.

At that age many of the attendees will be retired or about to retire so whilst in the queue at the post office to collect £120 a week does anyone really expect that pittance to be spent on big money vinyl? It might take a months pension to purchase a new tune at current rates... in the meantime without food and heating the potential buyer will have starved to death or died of hyperthermia. 

Perhaps those who joined the scene at the likes of Stafford may be in a position to pay big money but I wouldn't hold my breath in he hope of a major windfall if I were a seller because there will be loads of other sellers supplementing the generous state pension.

I assume the Stafford favourites will be the collectors choice in 10 years time but £50 at current rates should be getting a buyer a big tune.

The young uns joining the scene now will probably be 28 to 35 and be burdened with a mortgage, spouse and kids so they are unlikely big money buyers.

In answer to the question - I doubt there will be any big money records as we know it now.  

No doubt some venues will still exist but with dwindling numbers (many of the current followers of NS will have fallen from the perch, become infirm or be placed in a retirement home). Bear in mind the likes of Richard Searling will be 70+ so carrying a big heavy box of vinyl to a venue may have become too much, perhaps DJ's will be bringing their laptop to events instead of a box of 7".  

Sounds bleak don't it, so I try to party now and leave the crystal ball in the box. 

Edited August 12, 2014 by mellorful

[Gelderd Ender]

I try to be a realist and the sums don't lie

Big venue events like Casino ended approx 1980 - Estimated average age of attendees 21, thus date of birth 1959, Ten years time 2024 = 65 years old and that is the younger end of the spectrum.

At that age many of the attendees will be retired or about to retire so whilst in the queue at the post office to collect £120 a week does anyone really expect that pittance to be spent on big money vinyl? It might take a months pension to purchase a new tune at current rates... in the meantime without food and heating the potential buyer will have starved to death or died of hyperthermia. 

Perhaps those who joined the scene at the likes of Stafford may be in a position to pay big money but I wouldn't hold my breath in he hope of a major windfall if I were a seller because there will be loads of other sellers supplementing the generous state pension.

I assume the Stafford favourites will be the collectors choice in 10 years time but £50 at current rates should be getting a buyer a big tune.

The young uns joining the scene now will probably be 28 to 35 and be burdened with a mortgage, spouse and kids so they are unlikely big money buyers.

In answer to the question - I doubt there will be any big money records as we know it now.  

No doubt some venues will still exist but with dwindling numbers (many of the current followers of NS will have fallen from the perch, become infirm or be placed in a retirement home). Bear in mind the likes of Richard Searling will be 70+ so carrying a big heavy box of vinyl to a venue may have become too much, perhaps DJ's will be bringing their laptop to events instead of a box of 7".  

Sounds bleak don't it, so I try to party now and leave the crystal ball in the box. 

what tablets you on ? mot

[Cover-up]

THE FOUR VANDALS - WRONG SIDE OF TOWN  that will rocket

 

Wish someone WOULD rocket it...

[Shsdave]

Ive just paid £130 for it A quality sixties northern track i heard out at Va Va Voom.Seen it listed at £170 after my want ad.

 

Old Stafford play I believe wiggy ? (where's Chalky?) Played it at Solid Hit now & again, also played the other side out a few times. Good doublesider  (especially at 30 quid  )

[Wiggyflat]

Think this predates Stafford....Ian Dewhirst remembers seeing it in Jumbo records in Leeds.Noted jazzer Ahmad Jamals own label.Not bad for 30 quid...but its all swings and roundabouts.Keep buying the popcorn,reggae and xover folks.Kevin Johansen.

Edited August 12, 2014 by wiggyflat

[Derek Pearson]

Almost certainly a soul pack record from times gone by and loved by me from the very first time I heard it.

It swings down low and its got such a sultry feel to it.

 

Over the years it's been an absolutely massive floor filler in my front room (I still get loads of requests for it) though sadly my testicles aren't big enough yet to play it out - even though I  keep wanting to and meaning to - probably remembering to put it in my play box at some stage might be a good first move....

 

Remember once getting slightly excited when reading about people praising this release but was horrified to discover they were going on about the flip "Last night changed it all" which is proper ballbag but hey ho what do I know?

 

Derek 

 

[Mellorful]

what tablets you on ? mot

Can't remember but that's senility for you...

[Geeselad]

Almost certainly a soul pack record from times gone by and loved by me from the very first time I heard it.

It swings down low and its got such a sultry feel to it.

 

Over the years it's been an absolutely massive floor filler in my front room (I still get loads of requests for it) though sadly my testicles aren't big enough yet to play it out - even though I  keep wanting to and meaning to - probably remembering to put it in my play box at some stage might be a good first move....

 

Remember once getting slightly excited when reading about people praising this release but was horrified to discover they were going on about the flip "Last night changed it all" which is proper ballbag but hey ho what do I know?

 

Derek 

 

derek, the other side is a massive and very classic break tune that is imense imho, not fit for a northern floor perhaps but outstanding in its own right.

[Hammie]

Think this predates Stafford....Ian Dewhirst remembers seeing it in Jumbo records in Leeds.Noted jazzer Ahmad Jamals own label.Not bad for 30 quid...but its all swings and roundabouts.Keep buying the popcorn,reggae and xover folks.Kevin Johansen.

Definatelly pre-dates Stafford, I bought this off the 'front page focus' of John Andersons Soul Bowl list circa 75/76 for 85 pence !!!!

I know, cos that was the way to build your collection in those days, that and soul packs.  

Lots of stuff off those front pages of John's lists now go for fair prices e. g. WADE FLEMMONS - JEANETTE £1-25 Pence at the time !!!

all the stuff listed on the front page of his lists, he had big quantities of each title. If only I bought multiple copies of each at the time...... 

But that could be said of a lot of regular sales lists at the time like Manny,s I suppose...

[Jim G]

Slow beat ballads will massive in 10 years, cos most of us will be in mid to late 60's and some in 70's (and of some gone to the great dancefloor in the sky)

 

Buy the ballads I say!

[Theothertosspot]

Ah, hindsight is a wonderful thing. Just think of all the things you could have bought, or as Freddie Houston said "if I had known"

R E Gards

Edited August 13, 2014 by theothertosspot

[Sean Hampsey]

Definatelly pre-dates Stafford, I bought this off the 'front page focus' of John Andersons Soul Bowl list circa 75/76 for 85 pence !!!!

I know, cos that was the way to build your collection in those days, that and soul packs.  

Yep, I had it mid 70's and played the other side 'Tell It To The Wind' out regularly late 70's / early 80's.

 

Sean

[John Reed]

Almost certainly a soul pack record from times gone by and loved by me from the very first time I heard it.

It swings down low and its got such a sultry feel to it.

Remember once getting slightly excited when reading about people praising this release but was horrified to discover they were going on about the flip "Last night changed it all" which is proper ballbag but hey ho what do I know?

Derek

Both sides were massive London Rare Groove plays in the mid 80s