Billy Freemantle Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 The most accomplished and soul-stirring instrumental that I've heard today has to be Sonny Stitt's '00 Soul'. Sonny made no compromises at all from a bebop perspective and yet it drips with Soul of every variety.
Pete S Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 I was thinking about this in bed last night because someone said it's impossible for an instrumental to be soulful - my favourite insts are things like Bari Track, Cigarette Ashes, Locke's Theme (not a joke!), Exus Trek, but I would say that Ramsey Lewis' Wade In The Water or Booker T Time Is Tight, surely these have to be classed as soul???
Mike Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 I was thinking about this in bed last night because someone said it's impossible for an instrumental to be soulful - my favourite insts are things like Bari Track, Cigarette Ashes, Locke's Theme (not a joke!), Exus Trek, but I would say that Ramsey Lewis' Wade In The Water or Booker T Time Is Tight, surely these have to be classed as soul??? link if you can sing with soul surely you can play an instrument with soul??
Guest Jamie Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 (edited) I know there's a slight bit of a vocal in it, But Eddie Bishops 'Call Me' does it for me. You tellin' me that Sax doesn't sing? AND with soul. Oh, and Young Holt Unlimited 'California Montage' - pure class - you don't even notice there are no words. That's the sign of a quality instrumental. Jamie Edited November 1, 2004 by Jamie
Billy Freemantle Posted November 1, 2004 Author Posted November 1, 2004 I was thinking about this in bed last night because someone said it's impossible for an instrumental to be soulful - my favourite insts are things like Bari Track, Cigarette Ashes, Locke's Theme (not a joke!), Exus Trek, but I would say that Ramsey Lewis' Wade In The Water or Booker T Time Is Tight, surely these have to be classed as soul??? link I think you are absolutely right ,Pete.And I think that especially those who have the broadest definition of Soul - ie that is a about a feeling - would have to agree. Great Soul Vocalists like O.V. Wright, Jackie Wilson, James Carr etc etc use their voices AS instruments. It's about the 'grain' of the voice. And I agree with you, too, about 'Wade in the Water'. Does Marlena Shaw's vocal make it more soulful. I think not.
Chalky Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 You tellin' me that Sax doesn't sing? AND with soul. Yep I am. No Soul in an instrumental IMO. I say it's all in the vocal. Granted the instruments, including the sax add to the finished product but for me it's the singer who puts the soul in the record.
Guest Johnny One Trout Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 Cliff Nobles - The Horse The Theo-Coff Invasion - Lucky Day Milton Wright - The Gallop Billy Arnell - Tough Guuuerl Mystic Moods - Astral Trip But i would agree that Ramsey Lewis takes some beating in the soulful stakes even if it is a jazz record
Guest Jamie Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 Yep I am. No Soul in an instrumental IMO. I say it's all in the vocal. Granted the instruments, including the sax add to the finished product but for me it's the singer who puts the soul in the record. link To me Chalkster, you can almost feel the emotion in the instruments, how they hold a note. To me it's like they are singing. Not in all instances, but some the music comes first, then the lyrics. I think the writers heard the music and it gave them a certain feeling and created a picture. I think they then built from that. Afterall, 'FEELING' is what 'SOUL' music is about. Sometimes it's hard to describe what you feel. Jamie
Corbett80 Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 Rogers instrumental The Kontets (I think thats right) Willie Mitchell - The Champion Frank Foster - Harlem Rumble
Guest Kolla Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 I'm with Chalky on this - soul has to have a voice... and 99% of intrumentals that I hear played at Northern Soul events are terrible IMO [sorry Monsieur Finch... forgive me ] Blues and jazz is the home of the instrumental... Ramsay Lewis, Oscar Peterson, Jack McDuff, Jacques Loussier, Lalo Schifrin, Jimmy McGriff, Les McCann .... THESE GUYS knew how to write beautiful instrumentals.
Chalky Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 To me Chalkster, you can almost feel the emotion in the instruments, how they hold a note. To me it's like they are singing. Not in all instances, but some the music comes first, then the lyrics. I think the writers heard the music and it gave them a certain feeling and created a picture. I think they then built from that. Afterall, 'FEELING' is what 'SOUL' music is about. Sometimes it's hard to describe what you feel. Jamie link Most of the musicians weren't "soul" musicians. Take the funk brothers they were mainly Jazz musicians and hardly ever if at all played R&B prior to goiing to Motown....not that there was a lot of soul in the majority of Motown...middle of the road pop music I agree it is a feeling but it needs the lyrics and the artist to express those lyrics to give it the soul, all IMHO
Guest rachel Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 (edited) Yep you can play an instrument with feeling but I've yet to find an NS instrumental that does anything for me - compared to the emotion you can identify with in a voice and lyrics they've got no chance! There's a scientific basis to this as well - when you listen to music there's activity in a certain part of your brain, when you listen to language there's activity in a different bit, and when you listen to both, both bits get going. Which is why tunes with vocals are better Now who wants to hear my theory on.... Edited November 1, 2004 by rachel
Billy Freemantle Posted November 1, 2004 Author Posted November 1, 2004 Sorry I can't understand this argument. The voice is an instrument. Often crass lyrics take away emotion, not add to it. I am not a big fan of Luther Vandross .... but I can rember an intersting comment that I can remebr being attributed to him. He said something like: When I sing I get lost in the sound. I could be singing about Rice Krispies.
Dayo Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 "Charge" by the Jess and James Band on Shout. Who cares if it's soul or not - still makes me wanna backdrop 30 odd years later. My osteopath however advises that I stick to Beat Ballads!
Guest ShaneH Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 Not sure about this one. I prefer vocal tracks without a doubt. Perhaps I am in a strange mood today and looking at things in a post weekend haze but I would like to put forward the following: When a record you love is played it may be 20 seconds at least before the vocal starts. However you are tingling with joy well before you hear the vocal therefore what does this say about the argument of instrumentals have no soul. Do the first few seconds lack soul? If so why do we turn to jelly when the drums kick in? I believe you can't give the vocal as much credit as mentioned on this thread. I think I may have a point does anyone agree? Shane
Chalky Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 (edited) Not sure about this one. I prefer vocal tracks without a doubt. Perhaps I am in a strange mood today and looking at things in a post weekend haze but I would like to put forward the following: When a record you love is played it may be 20 seconds at least before the vocal starts. However you are tingling with joy well before you hear the vocal therefore what does this say about the argument of instrumentals have no soul. Do the first few seconds lack soul? If so why do we turn to jelly when the drums kick in? I believe you can't give the vocal as much credit as mentioned on this thread. I think I may have a point does anyone agree? Shane link No I think the vocal deserves all the credit IMO. I personally think that instrumentals are good Northern Soul and we all know that Northern Soul doesn't necessarily mean soul And you start tingling when you hear the first part of the record comes on cause you love the record...soul, northern soul maybe even modern soul :o Edited November 2, 2004 by chalky
Chalky Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 However you are tingling with joy well before I thought that was the drugs
Guest ShaneH Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 To add another angle I would much prefer to hear a instrumental than a vocal on its own (al pacino I think they call it? ) Shane
Guest ShaneH Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 I thought that was the drugs link I wish we could do a really in depth honest drugs thread but I think it is best avoided. We will have the squad turning up at nighters again like the old days! (so I have been told!) Shane
Chalky Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 I wish we could do a really in depth honest drugs thread but I think it is best avoided. We will have the squad turning up at nighters again like the old days! (so I have been told!) Shane link Why are there drugs at all-nighters tut tut
Guest ShaneH Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 I take them to make other people seem interesting! Shane
jazzyjas Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 Young Holt Unlimited 'California Montage' - pure class - you don't even notice there is no words. That's the sign of a quality instrumental. THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! Couldn't agree with you more. This is sooooo beautiful! I love this record and never tire of it. It's very classy indeed. One of my favorite enders. I'm not writing this to push anything, but I've got one available on a US Brunswick in really nice shape, in case anyone needs one. KTF Jas
Pete S Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 What is that on your avatar, a cat or a dog or something alien??
jazzyjas Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 What is that on your avatar, a cat or a dog or something alien?? link It's MOXY! She's having some late-nite fun at the playground on one of the swings. She's our Boston Terrier, who will be turning one year old in a couple of weeks. Could be from another planet, though. She makes some pretty weird gremlin sounds.
Guest Jamie Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 (edited) Young Holt Unlimited 'California Montage' - pure class - you don't even notice there is no words. That's the sign of a quality instrumental. THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! Couldn't agree with you more. This is sooooo beautiful! I love this record and never tire of it. It's very classy indeed. One of my favorite enders. I'm not writing this to push anything, but I've got one available on a US Brunswick in really nice shape, in case anyone needs one. KTF Jas link Hi Jas, As seen as you're from over the 'pond', can you tell if this was used in the score of a Steve McQueen film? I'm sure it was, although can't remember which one. I don't think it was a big hit though. (The Movie, Chalky, before you start ) Cheers, Jamie Edited November 1, 2004 by Jamie
jazzyjas Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 Hi Jas, As seen as you're from over the 'pond', can you tell if this was used in the score of a Steve McQueen film? I'm sure it was, although can't remember which one. I don't think it was a big hit though. (The Movie, Chalky, before you start ) Cheers, Jamie link Label credits a movie called "Winning"
Petebangor Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 Noone has mentioned Harley Hatcher-Soul Hustler what a great Instrumental that is.I have a copy of the LP for sale.If anyone's after it.Free delivery to Fleetwood! Cheers Pete
Mark B Posted November 1, 2004 Posted November 1, 2004 my favourite inst is earl wright thumb a ride and the debate was what instrumental makes you proud to be into northern not what inst is soulful, cos there was an awful lot of non soulful vacals played on the scene. and i still think california montage is the best ending record ever and brings back loads of memories, not soulful but is really catchy like raindrops love and sunshine just a nice poppy tune. mark
Supercorsa Posted November 2, 2004 Posted November 2, 2004 norhtern soul :o link Is this yet another style of soul as opposed to NORTHERN?
Chalky Posted November 2, 2004 Posted November 2, 2004 Is this yet another style of soul as opposed to NORTHERN? link
jocko Posted November 2, 2004 Posted November 2, 2004 Holidays - Making Up Time, Frank Foster & Bari Track - Proper Northern Soul, not sure I would call them soul in strictest sense though! <_< Whew I am confusing myself now!!! Cheers Jock
Markw Posted November 2, 2004 Posted November 2, 2004 Mike Vickers - On the Brink!!! Fandabadozy!!!.....................(cue tumbleweed moment).......................I'll get me coat...
Guest LeoLyxxx Posted November 2, 2004 Posted November 2, 2004 Billy Arnell - Tough Guuuerl OOOOOOOOOOH!!!!! I like this sooo much Also a fave instrumental is Dave Hamilton Orch. "who are you trying to fool" , i think its like 10 times better than Little Anns version.. best Leo
Tim Finch Posted November 2, 2004 Posted November 2, 2004 (edited) I'm with Chalky on this - soul has to have a voice... and 99% of intrumentals that I hear played at Northern Soul events are terrible IMO [sorry Monsieur Finch... forgive me  Blues and jazz is the home of the instrumental... Ramsay Lewis, Oscar Peterson, Jack McDuff, Jacques Loussier, Lalo Schifrin, Jimmy McGriff, Les McCann .... THESE GUYS knew how to write beautiful instrumentals. Forgiven - but I'm trying to stay out of this one! Now you've mentioned jazz tho' (and we did start with Sonny Stitt) - let's not forget all those ska-tastic Jamaican jazzers! Edited November 2, 2004 by Kolla
Tomangoes Posted November 2, 2004 Posted November 2, 2004 A good way to decide this issue is to think about an instrumental that has a vocal version. For example Crying over you - Duke Browner. IMO the inst is not half as soulfull, the same goes for many others, Hit and run, If its all the same to you etc. I even prefer the vocal to Lady Lady Lady - Boogie man orch. On the other hand I prefer the inst version to Eastenders theme instead of the awful barmaid singing 'anyone who falls in love'. Is this supposed to be serious or what!! Ed
John May Posted November 2, 2004 Posted November 2, 2004 Forgiven - but I'm trying to stay out of this one! Now you've mentioned jazz tho' (and we did start with Sonny Stitt) - let's not forget all those ska-tastic Jamaican jazzers! link Reluctant to get involved in this one, cause last week I posted a topic about white artists, and got hammered for saying soul music should be black........ So I suppose it's no suprise to all when I say, Soul music is about vocal expression, can't understand how an instrumental alone can be soulful. However I do see the attraction of instrumentals, especially if you are a dancer. If i Was to pick a fav' instrumental, I'd have to say " BARI TRACK" although I think the vocal is better ( Rose Battiste ).
Guest in town Mikey Posted November 2, 2004 Posted November 2, 2004 Is 'Walk in the night' by Junior Walker an instrumental?? It is soul of the highest order. Last heard in Iceland in the pizza section. Bew tee full!!
Pete S Posted November 2, 2004 Posted November 2, 2004 My favourite insts...there's probably loads more, there's one real surprise in with this lot, see if you can spot it!! And does anyone actually remember it?? innocent bystanders - frantic escape frankie crocker - ton of dynamite sidras theme bari track mirwood strings - don't pretend - I've actually got 2 versions of this, one is the well know one with a violin taking the lead, as bootlegged on soul fox, the other is an acetate which is just the backing track and no lead violin, I believe it is Russ's old copy which he go from Soussan matta baby - do the pearl girl miroslav vitous - new york city jimmy conwell - cigarette ashes bobs band - lockes theme willie mitchell - the champion
Rich Buckley Posted November 2, 2004 Posted November 2, 2004 Love Bari Trak, Exus Trek etc, but I'm with Mulf - Frank Foster - Harlem Rumble on Triode - not heard it played or seen it for sale in a while - reminds me of when I got into northern in mid 80s - pounding class tune!
Markw Posted November 2, 2004 Posted November 2, 2004 Baja Marimba Band - Along Comes Mary??? DOH!!! I'll get me coat again!
Markw Posted November 2, 2004 Posted November 2, 2004 Frank Foster used to get fairly regular spins at the Dome - think it was Carl, might have been Greg.
Pete S Posted November 2, 2004 Posted November 2, 2004 Baja Marimba Band - Along Comes Mary??? DOH!!! I'll get me coat again! link Brilliant!
Pete S Posted November 2, 2004 Posted November 2, 2004 Frank Foster used to get fairly regular spins at the Dome - think it was Carl, might have been Greg. link They also had a Frank Foster cover up that they used to play there...
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