Ljblanken Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 this video on youtube has an Old Town label that says norma jenkins and is #1160 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBks6c0ojLk ...but number is actually the Sparkels doing the same song (different recording) anyway know what the deal is? thanks!
El Corol Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Its a mock up label. The Norma Jenkins exists as an acetate, unreleased recording. 1
Benji Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Not even mock up label. Just Norma Jenkins photoshopped in a picture of the Sparkels. Pathetic.
Robbk Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 Norma had a deeper voice than The Sparkels' lead. No one knows who The Sparkels' members were. They were a poppish girls group that Herb Bernstein found and recorded. Norma Jenkins and The Dolls were working for George Kerr, and Norma sang demos for Jobete Music's New York office. Bernstein just liked the song for his group, and recorded them singing it. jenkins' version is very likely just the demo, and Kerr didn't plan on releasing it commercially. Otherwise, it would have been released on Maltese Records, as was "This is Our Day", which was also a Jobete song. All others on Maltese were published by Maltese Music. A few of those may have been written by Kerr and Barnes' team at Jobete, but not yet accepted by Jobete before The New York office was closed up by Berry Gordy in mid 1964. 2
Guest Matt Male Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 (edited) Always loved the Sparkels version but Norma's is also great. My copy is a bit crap with almost the entire label rubbed off with just the outside and white paper underneath left. Also how do these people who post records on Youtube always manage to spell the name of the artist wrong? Edited June 11, 2014 by Matt Male
Robbk Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 That's probably The Dolls in the background of Norma's demo, rather than The Sparkels. I'm sure that The Sparkels were Bernstein's group, and had no connection with Kerr or NY Jobete. I like Jenkins' /Dolls' version much better, as it is more soulful and less pop/girl groupish. 1
Zanetti Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 Always Thought It Was An Acetate Of LaBrenda Ben ... Good To Know
Guest mellytee Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 Both sound great; one of my favourite tunes.
Ljblanken Posted June 11, 2014 Author Posted June 11, 2014 Thanks for all the info, folks. Just won the "me, myself, and i" norma jenkins on carnival - and then stumbled on the video. Great voice!
Prophonics 2029 Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 I can't remember who sang on The Dolls the Reason Why. I have had it Loma and Toy but it also came out on I thought Loma as just the artist but couldn't find it listed.
Chalky Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) I can't remember who sang on The Dolls the Reason Why. I have had it Loma and Toy but it also came out on I thought Loma as just the artist but couldn't find it listed. Annie Johnson. Different group to the Maltese dolls as far as I am aware. https://www.groovesvilleusa.com/blog/?p=2063 Edited June 12, 2014 by chalky 1
Tlscapital Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 Norma had a deeper voice than The Sparkels' lead. No one knows who The Sparkels' members were. They were a poppish girls group that Herb Bernstein found and recorded. Norma Jenkins and The Dolls were working for George Kerr, and Norma sang demos for Jobete Music's New York office. Bernstein just liked the song for his group, and recorded them singing it. jenkins' version is very likely just the demo, and Kerr didn't plan on releasing it commercially. Otherwise, it would have been released on Maltese Records, as was "This is Our Day", which was also a Jobete song. All others on Maltese were published by Maltese Music. A few of those may have been written by Kerr and Barnes' team at Jobete, but not yet accepted by Jobete before The New York office was closed up by Berry Gordy in mid 1964. Can't agree Rob, I always loved the Sparkles 'try love' on Old Town from scratch and for what it is: that is tribal-early 6T's pop-soul, almost (nearly it) "BIG" NY sound sounding (no strings !!!), with a strange "too high" work on the gains for the lead singer to bring it to an almost saturation... It's full of "well thought" neglect as it is full of "passion" teen emotions. Great cocktail me think. Much more edge than Norm's cut IMHO. I can't say nothing wrong about/on Norma Jenkins and at the same time, I have to admit her version of 'try love' just seems a bit bland to me when comparing. Give me the 'airplane song' for example, this I love. It has an edge and I can understand at the same time why it couldn't be a 'hit' record and that's why I never kept a copy of 'this is our day'. Just wanted to give some justice to the Sparkles (Charlie's Angels ?!) whoever they are.
Dave Moore Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 Wasn't this part of the stuff that Chris King 'found'. First time I hard it was when he played it off a C90 tape (maybe at the Ritz, I can't remember now), then he played a dub at Sheridans about 2002? The late Al Pollard was a fan and Chris cut him an acetate of it. I did know who this was and to my eternal shame have forgotten now. (Something that Al would never have done).
Robbk Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 Can't agree Rob, I always loved the Sparkles 'try love' on Old Town from scratch and for what it is: that is tribal-early 6T's pop-soul, almost (nearly it) "BIG" NY sound sounding (no strings !!!), with a strange "too high" work on the gains for the lead singer to bring it to an almost saturation... It's full of "well thought" neglect as it is full of "passion" teen emotions. Great cocktail me think. Much more edge than Norm's cut IMHO. I can't say nothing wrong about/on Norma Jenkins and at the same time, I have to admit her version of 'try love' just seems a bit bland to me when comparing. Give me the 'airplane song' for example, this I love. It has an edge and I can understand at the same time why it couldn't be a 'hit' record and that's why I never kept a copy of 'this is our day'. Just wanted to give some justice to the Sparkles (Charlie's Angels ?!) whoever they are. Don't get me wrong. I like The Sparkels' version a LOT. I bought it new, as soon as I saw "Jobete Music" on it. And I was not disappointed at all. And I'd have bought it anyway, as I collect girls; group records even those with a Poppish sound. Just so you will know that I'm not trying to say that one version is good and one bad I'll make a comparison: If "I Never Dreamed" by The Cookies is rated 100 as a Girls' group song, then "try Love" by The Sparkels would be 85. The Norma Jenkins version is in a different genre. It is more Popcorn Soul. If I'd rate the two to my own scale of like/dislike from 0-dislike strongly -to 100 like as much as is possible, I'd rate the Norma Jenkins at 88, and the Sparkels at 85. So, they are not very far apart. I ust like Norma Jenkins' version slightly better.
Robbk Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) Norma Jenkins' Dolls were from the New York/New ersey Metro Area, while The Dolls on Loma were from Waco Texas. The recording was produced and recorded in Texas by Dale Hawkins, and their record appeared first on a local, Texas label, Toy Records (No connection with Toy Records in NY). Edited June 12, 2014 by RobbK
Mal C Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 If "I Never Dreamed" by The Cookies is rated 100 as a Girls' group song, then "try Love" by The Sparkels would be 85. The Norma Jenkins version is in a different genre. It is more Popcorn Soul. If I'd rate the two to my own scale of like/dislike from 0-dislike strongly -to 100 like as much as is possible, I'd rate the Norma Jenkins at 88, and the Sparkels at 85. So, they are not very far apart. I ust like Norma Jenkins' version slightly better. : agree, Norma Jenkins has the edge, but both are brill... "I Never Dreamed" by The Cookies however, totally agree is simply awesome, I still dont have a copy, they come up but its a buggar to get a mint one..
Tlscapital Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) Don't get me wrong. I like The Sparkels' version a LOT. I bought it new, as soon as I saw "Jobete Music" on it. And I was not disappointed at all. And I'd have bought it anyway, as I collect girls; group records even those with a Poppish sound. Just so you will know that I'm not trying to say that one version is good and one bad I'll make a comparison: If "I Never Dreamed" by The Cookies is rated 100 as a Girls' group song, then "try Love" by The Sparkels would be 85. The Norma Jenkins version is in a different genre. It is more Popcorn Soul. If I'd rate the two to my own scale of like/dislike from 0-dislike strongly -to 100 like as much as is possible, I'd rate the Norma Jenkins at 88, and the Sparkels at 85. So, they are not very far apart. I ust like Norma Jenkins' version slightly better. Respect Rob, didn't mean to sound harsh if I was. I tend to forget that my Belgian sense of humor is not universal. But, that way I got my point over and replied to. I find great interest in these treads since sometimes they make people react and you do get some real infos when you cross and cut them. And I got to view that great sound clip from YT from the "other" Dolls. A 45 I kinda forgot about and that is now revived in my ears and all that that goes with it (memories…). Thanks for all of that Edited June 12, 2014 by tlscapital
Robbk Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 Respect Rob, didn't mean to sound harsh if I was. I tend to forget that my Belgian sense of humor is not universal. But, that way I got my point over and replied to. I find great interest in these treads since sometimes they make people react and you do get some real infos when you cross and cut them. And I got to view that great sound clip from YT from the "other" Dolls. A 45 I kinda forgot about and that is now revived in my ears and all that that goes with it (memories…). Thanks for all of that Geen probleem. Ik weet een beetje over de belgische gevoel voor humor (althans de vlaamse), als familie van mijn vader komt uit Antwerpen, en ik bezoek familie daar, en ook in Brussel en Luik elk jaar. Ben je een vlaamse of franse belgier?
Tlscapital Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) Geen probleem. Ik weet een beetje over de belgische gevoel voor humor (althans de vlaamse), als familie van mijn vader komt uit Antwerpen, en ik bezoek familie daar, en ook in Brussel en Luik elk jaar. Ben je een vlaamse of franse belgier? Well, ik woon in Brussel voor zo lang (37 jaren) en zoals de mensen die hier zijn hier ik ben een zinneke. Geboren in SA, TX, USA. Eerste woonde ik in Leuven en na in Brussel. Ik was eerst engels leert dan frans. En met tijd hebt nederland (of vlaams !?) geleerd. Voila. Edited June 12, 2014 by tlscapital
Robbk Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) Well, ik woon in Brussel voor zo lang (37 jaren) en zoals de mensen die hier zijn hier ik ben een zinneke. Geboren in SA, TX, USA. Eerste woonde ik in Leuven en na in Brussel. Ik was eerst engels leert dan frans. En met tijd hebt nederland (of vlaams !?) geleerd. Voila. Tof! I bet it is funny to hear Vlaams with a San Antonio accent! Tot ziens, Y'all! Edited June 12, 2014 by RobbK
Guest Posted June 15, 2014 Posted June 15, 2014 As a footnote, on Sidney Barnes' first visit to these shores (March 2001!), I showed him a copy of the Sparkels on an Old Town WD knowing he co-wrote it...he had never seen one and didn't know it got pressed...but within a minute or two he was recalling and singing it to me (without hearing the vinyl!). My friend also had a stock copy with him that night at the Capitol Soul Club, so we showed him that as well to prove it actually came out...or at least made it to a stock copy stage. https://capitolsoulclub.homestead.com/sidneybarnes.html
Robbk Posted June 15, 2014 Posted June 15, 2014 It did make it to the store stock stage. But The white DJs are MUCH more plentiful.
Prophonics 2029 Posted June 15, 2014 Posted June 15, 2014 I remember Sidney stood at the back stage playing a tambourine in time to some records that made the sound even better..not sure if they were his records playing or the Parliaments.
Tlscapital Posted June 16, 2014 Posted June 16, 2014 It did make it to the store stock stage. But The white DJs are MUCH more plentiful. Hallo Rob, sorry maar ik zal in engels schrijven zo iedereen kan begrijp wat wij spreken over. So, I do not understand the "MUCH more plentiful" bit. Do you mean with "preview copy" filling the label ? Or do you mean "soundwise" ?
Robbk Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 No. I meant that many more white DJ records exist than store stock records of that old Town release.
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