Is this a bootleg

Edited June 4, 201410 yr by mark b

Re posted with better photo

When I started selling some of my vinyl, I was surprised to be told

that mine was a boot. The easy way to tell was how flexible it was, you

could nearly bend it in half 

 

Mick

I may be wrong on this -

 

At one time it was said that the yellow copies were the original press and the blue ones counterfeit

 

There are two presses of the blue copy - one with a heavily scratched in matrix (same as the yelow) and one with a lightly scratched in matrix

 

I think the blue ones with the heavily scratched in matrix are genuine second issues and the others bootlegs

 

If you want to be sure go for the yellow iddue or white promo

  On 04/06/2014 at 13:48, kjw said:

 

If you want to be sure go for the yellow iddue or white promo

 

Is that posh for issue? 

It's the copy I have but never been sure.

It's has mick Webb scratched into the run out as well

Can be confusing, since the bootlegs have the same matrix engravings as the original, but are faint and don't look like engravings.  As Kjw says, the engraving on the originals are quite heavily scratched in.

 

Best way to tell is that on the original, the run-out area on the flip side, "I Don't Think I'll Ever Love Another" is quite thin, and the grooves seem to form a 'pattern' on the surface.  In comparison, the run-out is quite broad on the boot, and there should be very little or no groove 'pattern'.  The vinyl of the boot is also quite thin and flexible, and the label has an almost rough paper texture which is flat in comparison to the ridged label originals

 

Blue and yellow issues with heavily engraved matrix are originals.  

Edited June 6, 201410 yr by Gene-R

I asked about this a while back....two label variations print wise, demo, 2 blue variants and a yellow that I think is only one version of this..some the same as the Contemplations credits. Sure dead wax says alone with no love or rock candy from memory.

Edited June 4, 201410 yr by Prophonics 2029

  On 04/06/2014 at 16:48, Prophonics 2029 said:

I asked about this a while back....two label variations print wise, demo, 2 blue variants and a yellow that I think is only one version of this..some the same as the Contemplations credits. Sure dead wax says alone with no love or rock candy from memory.

 

Yes - only the "Alone With No Love" side has those etchings on the dead wax.  "Alone With No Love", "Dontee 103", and the date "2/18/71". 

 

The Contemplations dead wax carries the etchings "Alone With No Love", "Dontee 101" and the date "8/19/69".

 

There are three different issues and one demo of Dontee 103 (Rock Candy):

 

a) Yellow label, "Melody-American, Baltimore" address on bottom of label with "Sharrief Music / Wilkens Music Corp / Wally Roker Music BMI" credit.

b) Blue label with "Melody-American, Pensylvania Ave" address on left of label with "Wilkens Music Corp / Wally Rorer Music" credit. 

c) Blue label, no address with "Sharrief Music (BMI)" credit (same credit as The Contemplations on Dontee 101).

d) White label demo with "Melody-American, Pensylvania Ave" address on left of label with "Wilkens Music Corp / Wally Rorer Music" credit.

 

And just to confuse matters further, I can't remember if the blue label boot has the address or not (I haven't seen one in 26 years), but I do know it has the "Wilkens Music Corp / Wally Rorer Music" credit.

Edited June 4, 201410 yr by Gene-R

  On 04/06/2014 at 14:25, mark b said:

It's has mick Webb scratched into the run out as well

im sure theres a guy from Padiham Lancs called Mick Webb. BITD.

  On 04/06/2014 at 14:25, mark b said:

It's has mick Webb scratched into the run out as well

 

 

thats my old copy, bought it off mick webb (cockney mick)  round about 1983-4 , then moved it on a couple of years later

Definitely Cockney Mick - he engraved all his records with his real name.

  On 05/06/2014 at 12:37, Gene-R said:

Definitely Cockney Mick - he engraved all his records with his real name.

Thanks so is it a boot or original

 

mark

  On 05/06/2014 at 12:37, Gene-R said:

Definitely Cockney Mick - he engraved all his records with his real name.

 

Remember Rob Pheasant from Willenhall in the Black Country did the same with loads of his, Ive tons of them still, he was good as well, very professionally done..

 

Malcolm

  On 06/06/2014 at 12:16, Mal C said:

Remember Rob Pheasant from Willenhall in the Black Country did the same with loads of his, Ive tons of them still, he was good as well, very professionally done..

 

Malcolm

 

Had a few of those myself over the years, mostly Dick Coombes, Mick Webb, and even one signed by Carl Fortnum!

  On 06/06/2014 at 12:11, mark b said:

Thanks so is it a boot or original

 

mark

 

Hard to say to be honest, Mark.  Though on a close inspection of your picture, the label looks kinda flat with no ridge, and the paper quality looks matt.  My guess is that it is a boot, but I'd need to see it in the flesh to be absolutely certain.  Best to show it to someone in the know, if you can.

 

What do the B-side grooves look like?  See my description in #8.  

 

"Best way to tell is that on the original, the run-out area on the flip side, "I Don't Think I'll Ever Love Another" is quite thin, and the grooves seem to form a 'pattern' on the surface.  In comparison, the run-out is quite broad on the boot, and there should be very little or no groove 'pattern'.  The vinyl of the boot is also quite thin and flexible, and the label has an almost rough paper texture which is flat in comparison to the ridged label originals"

Edited June 6, 201410 yr by Gene-R

Hello wow great thread Wigan cas in 1977 Dave evison doing his late "oldies" spot just had power nap 30mins and Opening few bars of this starts great wow had to have one Ah we sold them at the Piece Hall in Halifax and one of those boots was buried in a pile to get rid off.

Grabbed it then within a month or two got a blue orig very heavy great £4.50 though more than the 95 pence boot, later again came across a yellow one just as heavy but was assured it was a month or two later issue, still got the blue one, brings me Nicely to the DEMO, never seen one and does anybody out there have one willing to pay what's needed and you can trade my issue if you just want to keep the track, once DEMO find the issue will be gone, with all those memories.

Just out of interest what's the going rate for an original white demo of this?

Cheers

Jon

  On 06/06/2014 at 12:16, Mal C said:

Remember Rob Pheasant from Willenhall in the Black Country did the same with loads of his, Ive tons of them still, he was good as well, very professionally done..

 

Malcolm

I got a good amount of tapes that came from Rob Pheasant, late 70s or early 80s.

  On 06/06/2014 at 17:24, ShorterSoul said:

Just out of interest what's the going rate for an original white demo of this?

Cheers

Jon

I think JM got about £200 on his auction for a Demo a couple of years ago. I remember because I got one on eBay about 2 months later for less than 1/2 that (which is about the right price IMHO).

 

I think the Yellow looks the best.

 Hi All  A similar question about value of the yellow 1st issue, it's the rarer copy of them all (I think) I put this in the record club pick of the day 2 years ago, in short it's a class 45, but it's a guestimount  value that's needed  DAVE