Recent Sale On Manships - Mr Soul ?

[Nsg]

Just seen a copy on Genuine go for £ 1,300+ "What Happened yesterday" by Mr Soul, Richard Searling's old coverup of "Your love is slipping away" by "Maurice McAllister

 

Question:- I though this was Al Scott originally and this copy shares the same catalog no at Al Scott - How can this be ????

 

 

https://www.raresoulman.co.uk/auction/this-week/

 

"

Mr. Soul What Happened To Yesterday C/w You're Too Good

Do records of this calibre need embellishments..

I must say I’m motivated enough to pull out every thinkable vinyl-superlative I’ve ever thought of..

But it’s not required because this 45 sits in the top 50 most-wanted - least seen - most respected Northern Soul 45s ever played..

Ridiculously RARE - Crazily sought-after - and so damn deliciously, ludicrously, insanely, preposterously, implausibly, stupidly-fine NORTHERNSOUL!

Richard Searling’s former Maurice McAllister’s - Your Love Is Slipping Away - “cover up” of course….and since those heady days… most collectors have yearned for a mere sniff of a copy..

Now’s your chance…

Some light surface marks - but as you can hear plays loud clean and true..

Sorry, this item has already been won!
The winning bid was £ 1,334.00

 

[Mal C]

Same song got released twice on the same label, this is the exact same mix isn't it, not a re-recording by another artist on the label...not uncommon really...

Edited May 27, 2014 by Mal C

[Nsg]

Same song got released twice on the same label, this is the exact same mix isn't it, not a re-recording by another artist on the label...not uncommon really...

 

 

Yes, possibly but you would expect them to retain the TRUE composers on both 45's, unless this is one is a fake ?

[Nsg]

Its also been re-issued in Oct 2011 by EMG - they also state writers are B. Hall & A.Scott and you can download it from iTunes for 79p 

[Nsg]

and even more stranger, the "other Artist" ie. Mr Soul's "Whatever happened to yesterday" was also re- released as track.22 on "Soul Gems remastered" also published by EMG in May 2009, but it credits the writers as B.Hall & A.Scott BUT with the following footnote, who is "Universal Mind" and why the name change - must be a typo;

 

SHORT DESCRIPTION:

A rare collection of independent soul singles that scored big on England's Northern Soul charts and became collector's items in America. Includes the ultra rare 'What Ever Happened To Yesterday' by Universal Mind, one of the most highly sought after soul singles on the collector's market. Finally available in the digital domain - all selections newly remastered

 

However, I think I like the version issued on "The Twisting the Wheel: Northern Soul Gems", which credits the song to Al "Mr. Soul" Scott, which was also issued by EMG Nov 2013, How confusing !

[Nsg]

Quick Summary:- I don't think the company who even have/own the rights to this music appear to know the true facts now,  as they change the words to suit themselves, speaks alot for OVO doesn't it !

 

 

 

1. SHORT DESCRIPTION:

One of the most sought after 45 RPM soul singles of the 1960's, Al Scott's 'What Happened To Yesterday b/w 'You're Too Good' recently fetched over 4,000 dollars on Ebay. A favorite soul collector's 45 on both sides of the Atlantic, the rare 1966 single is presented here in its original glory, finally available in the digital domain and newly remastered.

 

https://emglicensing.com/soon/release_detail.php?get_releases=894231479229

 

 

2. SHORT DESCRIPTION:

One of the most sought after 45 RPM soul singles of the 1960's, Mr. Soul's 'What Happened To Yesterday b/w 'You're Too Good' recently fetched over 4,000 dollars on Ebay. A favorite soul collector's 45 on both sides of the Atlantic, the rare 1966 single is presented here in its original glory, finally available in the digital domain and newly remastered.

https://emglicensing.com/soon/release_detail.php?get_releases=894231479328

 

3. SHORT DESCRIPTION:

A rare collection of independent soul singles that scored big on England's Northern Soul charts and became collector's items in America. Includes the ultra rare 'What Ever Happened To Yesterday' by Universal Mind, one of the most highly sought after soul singles on the collector's market. Finally available in the digital domain - all selections newly remastered

 

https://emglicensing.com/soon/release_detail.php?get_releases=894231274220

Edited May 27, 2014 by NSG

[Pete S]

Love the composer credit on the black label one, "M. Soul"

[Pete S]

Quick Summary:- I don't think the company who even have/own the rights to this music know the truth now,  as they change the words to suit themselves, speaks alot for OVO does it !

 

 

 

1. SHORT DESCRIPTION:

One of the most sought after 45 RPM soul singles of the 1960's, Al Scott's 'What Happened To Yesterday b/w 'You're Too Good' recently fetched over 4,000 dollars on Ebay. A favorite soul collector's 45 on both sides of the Atlantic, the rare 1966 single is presented here in its original glory, finally available in the digital domain and newly remastered.

 

https://emglicensing.com/soon/release_detail.php?get_releases=894231479229

 

 

2. SHORT DESCRIPTION:

One of the most sought after 45 RPM soul singles of the 1960's, Mr. Soul's 'What Happened To Yesterday b/w 'You're Too Good' recently fetched over 4,000 dollars on Ebay. A favorite soul collector's 45 on both sides of the Atlantic, the rare 1966 single is presented here in its original glory, finally available in the digital domain and newly remastered.

https://emglicensing.com/soon/release_detail.php?get_releases=894231479328

 

3. SHORT DESCRIPTION:

A rare collection of independent soul singles that scored big on England's Northern Soul charts and became collector's items in America. Includes the ultra rare 'What Ever Happened To Yesterday' by Universal Mind, one of the most highly sought after soul singles on the collector's market. Finally available in the digital domain - all selections newly remastered

 

https://emglicensing.com/soon/release_detail.php?get_releases=894231274220

 

Some of these companies make a living by claiming that the own the copyright of certain tracks and try to force money out of people who've uploaded them to youtube etc.  Not accusing this label of doing so - but it does happens and has happened to members on here, attempting to be charged for their own music!

[Mal C]

Yes, possibly but you would expect them to retain the TRUE composers on both 45's, unless this is one is a fake ?

 Be honest I dont know why, but there are lots of cases where somebody connected with the label or song goes off and releases another 45 of a song, think 'the Phantom - Come back to me' on Karisma, and Sonny Craver on Musette, think we discussed this recently and its highly likely a different singer,  also Melvin Davis on Groovesville and John L Brown - I'm Losing You is another discussed on here..

 

I dont think the Mr Soul is a fake, its one of those 45's that came out twice, very likely due to somebody either believing in the song, and putting it out again,  Or maybe as allot of times with record labels in the 6ts there was some sort of dispute, and another 45 was released, strange it's on the same label, my examples above aren't, but we dont know.

 

Its a puzzle for sure..

 

Malcolm

[Nsg]

 Be honest I dont know why, but there are lots of cases where somebody connected with the label or song goes off and releases another 45 of a song, think 'the Phantom - Come back to me' on Karisma, and Sonny Craver on Musette, think we discussed this recently and its highly likely a different singer,  also Melvin Davis on Groovesville and John L Brown - I'm Losing You is another discussed on here..

 

I dont think the Mr Soul is a fake, its one of those 45's that came out twice, very likely due to somebody either believing in the song, and putting it out again,  Or maybe as allot of times with record labels in the 6ts there was some sort of dispute, and another 45 was released, strange it's on the same label, my examples above aren't, but we dont know.

 

Its a puzzle for sure..

 

Malcolm

 

 

Think you could be right,  but if you where of a doubtful disposition and didn't want to risk your dosh, LOL, I doubt you would buy either copy based on comparison with the label layout/info of the tracks before and after this issue no;

 

https://www.globaldogproductions.info/g/genuine.html

 

However, it appears this was stated back in 2011;

 

https://www.goldminemag.com/article/241104

 

This Yellow one looks pretty genuine, LOL

 

Edited May 27, 2014 by NSG

[Mal C]

No No No, if I had the cash I'd buy either.... make no mistake!!

 

I think quite allot of what is on the net contradicts its self some times, this site has seen many examples of this recently with new to 'Soul' folk taking what they see online as gospel, allot of times it simply isn't...  there are guys on here though, as no doubt your aware really do know whats what, and they have gained that experience from knowing the folk involved or simply being around when stuff come out...

 

old gits with real deal knowledge, and I mean that very respectfully...

 

m

Edited May 27, 2014 by Mal C

[Dave Pinch]

There was an al Scott for sale on Facebook last week for 1500 dollars

[dthedrug]

 HI ALL ... Mr SOUL brings back many memories of KEELE ALL-NIGHTERS, it was a regular play by MICK S always packed the dance floor, GOOD DAYS & I miss it?  DAVE

[Guest MrC]

 Be honest I dont know why, but there are lots of cases where somebody connected with the label or song goes off and releases another 45 of a song, think 'the Phantom - Come back to me' on Karisma, and Sonny Craver on Musette, think we discussed this recently and its highly likely a different singer,  also Melvin Davis on Groovesville and John L Brown - I'm Losing You is another discussed on here..

 

I dont think the Mr Soul is a fake, its one of those 45's that came out twice, very likely due to somebody either believing in the song, and putting it out again,  Or maybe as allot of times with record labels in the 6ts there was some sort of dispute, and another 45 was released, strange it's on the same label, my examples above aren't, but we dont know.

 

Its a puzzle for sure..

 

Malcolm

 

Even stranger is the fact that both the releases on Genuine, although credited as different people and different songwriters, have the same catalogue number 150-2!  

 

[Benji]

Even stranger is the fact that both the releases on Genuine, although credited as different people and different songwriters, have the same catalogue number 150-2!  

 

 

Strange credits but they make sense. Both times the credits are a certain "B. Hall" and the artist himself, Al Scott or Mr. Soul. Maybe the singer's real name was Al Scott and he had the stage name "Mr. Soul"? If that's the case then I guess Al was pressed first, Mr Soul second. (or the other way around  )

[Guest MrC]

Be interesting to see which was pressed 1st and the time difference between the two.

 

Maybe you're right about the stage name etc, and those were pressed 1st for sale at gigs, but when they decided to go for a wider audience when they'd sold out of the 1st run, they changed to his actual name..... 

 

Would be interesting to find out the actual reasons, anyone on here know the people involved?

[Nsg]

Strange credits but they make sense. Both times the credits are a certain "B. Hall" and the artist himself, Al Scott or Mr. Soul. Maybe the singer's real name was Al Scott and he had the stage name "Mr. Soul"? If that's the case then I guess Al was pressed first, Mr Soul second. (or the other way around  )

 

According to Classic 45's the BLACK label is a reissue;

 

"Originally released on Genuine 150, this great reissue has an exact reproduction of the original label. Listed at #229 in Kev Roberts' list of the 500 greatest Northern Soul singles, this 45 was released with two different credits... One, like this reissue, to "Mr. Soul," and the identical recording on the same label to "Al Scott." Talk about confusing! What's not confusing is the price that either of those originals now commands... we're talking upwards of $5,000 apiece! Note: This reissue has the same song on both sides."

 

https://www.classic45s.com/product_info.php?products_id=22906&cPath=

 

Looking at Kev's book, he too uses the reissue label scan ..................

[Nsg]

However, according to the summary of the Twisted Wheel - Soul Gems CD released by EMG, this is what was written by Soul Basement ..... ( extract, which is a total contradiction to the above ....... )

 

https://www.thesoulbasement.com/Site/Twisting.html

 

‘What Happened To Yesterday’, billed here as by Al ‘Mr Soul’ Scott, was issued by Genuine first just as by Mr Soul before getting an immediate second wind as by Al Scott - don’t ask me why but, anyway, it’s a catchy little number and makes for a pleasing opener.

[Sebastian]

NSG, you are mixing things up. The 45 on the Classic 45's site is a recent reissue (bootleg?) with the same song on both sides.

[Pete S]

Strange credits but they make sense. Both times the credits are a certain "B. Hall" and the artist himself, Al Scott or Mr. Soul. Maybe the singer's real name was Al Scott and he had the stage name "Mr. Soul"? If that's the case then I guess Al was pressed first, Mr Soul second. (or the other way around  )

 

I'm thinking the same - flopped as Al Scott so gave it a 'trendier' name to cash in on the Soul boom

[Nsg]

I'm thinking the same - flopped as Al Scott so gave it a 'trendier' name to cash in on the Soul boom

 

 

Isn't it the other way round ??

[Pete S]

Isn't it the other way round ??

 

Who knows?  And who knows why both should be 'discovered' in such a short period, 10 or so years after it was first played then forgotten?

[Chalky]

Pretty sure there was a newspaper clipping posted at one time from when the 45 was released or about mr soul gigging?

[Sebastian]

It might be worth asking Billy Nichols (https://billynicholsmusic.com/) about it.

 

Billy co-wrote the flipside "You're Too Good" together with "Mr. Soul" a.k.a. Al Scott a.k.a. Albert Scott.

 

Here's the BMI entry for "You're Too Good":

https://repertoire.bmi.com/title.asp?blnWriter=True&blnPublisher=True&blnArtist=True&keyID=1733051&ShowNbr=0&ShowSeqNbr=0&querytype=WorkID

Edited May 28, 2014 by Sebastian

[Sebastian]

[Nsg]

Pretty sure there was a newspaper clipping posted at one time from when the 45 was released or about mr soul gigging?

 

 

There is mate

Edited May 28, 2014 by NSG

[Nsg]

Appears we have been here before with this track, or should I say associated dealings, never seen this one before .............

 

Extract:- ".....questionable so called second issues,strange one of the labels here the Mr Soul 45 is on Genuine perhaps this word should have been researched prior to going to press, I have a pretty good idea of the source of this current batch but for legal reasons I cant really go there can I? 

 

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/articles/soul-articles/more-on-the-dark-side-of-current-scene-dodgy-reissues-r182

[Sebastian]

Appears we have been here before with this track, or should I say associated dealings, never seen this one before .............

 

Extract:- ".....questionable so called second issues,strange one of the labels here the Mr Soul 45 is on Genuine perhaps this word should have been researched prior to going to press, I have a pretty good idea of the source of this current batch but for legal reasons I cant really go there can I? 

 

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/articles/soul-articles/more-on-the-dark-side-of-current-scene-dodgy-reissues-r182

 

Once again, you're mixing things up.

 

There is a recent (i.e. from the 2000's) repro/bootleg of the black label "Mr. Soul" issue.

 

It has got nothing to do with the ORIGINAL black label "Mr. Soul" issue from the 1960's.

 

The labels look different if you inspect them closely and the bootleg hasn't got "You're Too Good" on the flipside (which is actually the a-side).

[Nsg]

Once again, you're mixing things up.

 

There is a recent (i.e. from the 2000's) repro/bootleg of the black label "Mr. Soul" issue.

 

It has got nothing to do with the ORIGINAL black label "Mr. Soul" issue from the 1960's.

 

The labels look different if you inspect them closely and the bootleg hasn't got "You're Too Good" on the flipside (which is actually the a-side).

 

 

Make no mistake, I am mixing nothing up, I am purely offering all the facts surrounding this track in its entirety or as I find them, its up to the reader to make his own mind up about the so called two Originals and subsequent re-issues.

[Dave Pinch]

Make no mistake, I am mixing nothing up, I am purely offering all the facts surrounding this track in its entirety or as I find them, its up to the reader to make his own mind up about the so called two Originals and subsequent re-issues.

Are U implying that the black genuine Mr soul copy is some sort 80s issue?

[Pete S]

Are U implying that the black genuine Mr soul copy is some sort 80s issue?

 

Which it can't be, as it was played off that copy in the 70's - wasn't it?

[Nsg]

Seems you can re-order the re-issues again from here too;

 

https://moskito-mailorder.com/index.php/en/catalog/product/view/id/8014/s/Mr.-Soul-'What-Happened-To-Yesterday'--7%22--back-in-stock!/

 

DETAILS

look-a-like re-issue of ultra rare northern soul track
Genuine Records

 

Re-issue by whom ?

 

I wonder what's on the otherside of this look-a-like as the 2 in 150-2 means B-side if you study and follow their std layout with all the other releases in the Genuine series.

 

I'll also state on reviewing every single other record in the series that this seems to be about the only one, which doesn't state their full address under the Genuine banner - why would you have a change in policy midterm like that ie. all releases by Genuine before and after, seem to have the full address on the top of the label ??

Edited May 28, 2014 by NSG

[Nsg]

Are U implying that the black genuine Mr soul copy is some sort 80s issue?

 

 

Cards on the table, the more I see in relation to this track, the more I question the whole "issue" of this record. I really don't know what to think now, but initially especially when Pete more or less stated what i was thinking I thought this;

 

The Original was credited by Mr Soul, it flopped and re-issued under his proper name Al Scott then it appears to be re-issued again 

 

But what is really bugging me is why the same catalog no is used and the proper writer credits aren't used and the way the design of the so called two originals and subsequent copies all dont share the same label design of the Genuine record releases before or after this one ie. 150-x

 

Might be interesting to know where Oswald Muennig from Moskito Prmotions, Munster,  GERMANY got these look-a-likes re-issues from 

Edited May 28, 2014 by NSG

[Benji]

Make no mistake, I am mixing nothing up, I am purely offering all the facts surrounding this track in its entirety or as I find them, its up to the reader to make his own mind up about the so called two Originals and subsequent re-issues.

 

No, you're not mixing up. But you start a thread about an original 1960's record and keep on posting references to recent reissues/bootlegs of that record that have no relevance to the thread. You may read your own topic opener to see what the original question was.

[Nsg]

No, you're not mixing up. But you start a thread about an original 1960's record and keep on posting references to recent reissues/bootlegs of that record that have no relevance to the thread. You may read your own topic opener to see what the original question was.

 

All is relative though.....

 

First of all referring to Mal C's post you need to decide which came first - Al Scott or Mr Soul, production wise not which was actually played first.

[Sebastian]

All is relative though.....

 

First of all referring to Mal C's post you need to decide which came first - Al Scott or Mr Soul, production wise not which was actually played first.

 

All is not relative. Info about the recent reissue/bootleg is totally irrelevant and should be left out of this conversation because it just confuses matters further.

 

I agree that it would be good to know whether the "Al Scott" or "Mr. Soul" issue came first. I'd bet money on the white labelled Al Scott one to be the first issue just like Pete S implied above, but I don't think there is a huge timespan between the two releases. It's all guesswork though, hard to know without asking the people involved in the recording etc.

 

NSG, have you tried to contact Billy Nichols? He should know.

 

It's also not strange that both releases have got the same catalogue number and are on the same label. That has happened a lot throughout the years on both big and small labels.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Sebastian

[Prophonics 2029]

I dont quiet understand the difference in the labels font and layout...was this a different pressing plant thing on Mr Al Soul Scott.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Prophonics 2029

[Garethx]

I'd say the Al Scott is before the Mr. Soul release as this has the same label art as the other Genuine releases by The Triumphs and Charles Hodges.

 

Pure speculation but I'd say the black label copies were self-financed at a slightly later date–maybe to sell at live performances billed as 'Mr Soul'.

 

The writer credits on the two releases are basically the same as Al Scott is Mr. Soul. B.Hall is credited on both as co-writer. He's also credited as the writer of the Charles Hodges 45 on Genuine.

 

There is no yellow label copy. That's just the ambient lighting in the room where the 45 above was photographed.

[Nsg]

I'd say the Al Scott is before the Mr. Soul release as this has the same label art as the other Genuine releases by The Triumphs and Charles Hodges.

 

Pure speculation but I'd say the black label copies were self-financed at a slightly later date–maybe to sell at live performances billed as 'Mr Soul'.

 

The writer credits on the two releases are basically the same as Al Scott is Mr. Soul. B.Hall is credited on both as co-writer. He's also credited as the writer of the Charles Hodges 45 on Genuine.

 

There is no yellow label copy. That's just the ambient lighting in the room where the 45 above was photographed.

 

 

I would have to agree and basically what PROPHONICS 2029 states above would possibly support that idea ......... ie. this is the only release with changed artwork and therefore pressed elsewhere 

 

But if you follow that through, this implies that the Al Scott is the true Original and the Mr Soul release is the later re-issue pressing, which the subsequent copies are based upon doesn't it ??

Edited May 28, 2014 by NSG

[Scal]

So why did it take so long for Mr. Soul to get found....and then soon after the record had been sold on....the Al Scott appeared.....???

[boba]

what is the big deal with the writing credits? others above already pointed out that one credits Al Scott and the other credits Mr. Soul and they're the same person. Neither is wrong. Moreover, plenty of legitimate releases even on major labels have pseudonyms for writing credits, and often have the pseudonym on a first release and then the real name on the second release. Talking about these specific writing credits is not evidence for one being first or the other and is also further confusing the matter.

[Scal]

How was it "uncovered"?

When?

Who by?

[Prophonics 2029]

Thought I would put up a few pics see if anything comes up.

Like is it the same stamper?

I

Also needs a tripod.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Prophonics 2029