John Manships Auction

[Tomangoes]

That topic took some reading. Now to shed some light on why records fetch so much, can the learned members of this site hazard a guess as to how many collectors would pay more than £1000 for a single? Maybe 1000.

There must be at least 1000 singles worth £1000, although its not likely there are 1000 copies of each one, so those who have a copy of them all are lucky blighters and should make sure they have a good lock on the front door.

Some serious money involved if you had an original copy of the 10,000 or so recognised rare/ns tracks. Looks like me sticking with the 40 mp3s that cost a tenner each unless I win the euro or spanish lottery, the UK one would'nt cover the cost.

'Baby dont you weep'.

Ed

[Chalky]

can the learned members of this site hazard a guess as to how many collectors would pay more than £1000 for a single? Maybe 1000.

Ed

I wouldn't have thought the number was no where near a 1000 who would pay serious $'s for a record Always seems to be the same few dozen who pay the money Some of the top dj's who pay big bucks sell to buy in some cases as some of those can't really afford the cash thats asked these days.

Edited July 24, 2006 by chalky

[Guest Dan]

I wouldn't have thought the number was no where near a 1000 who would pay serious $'s for a record Always seems to be the same few dozen who pay the money

i read that and thought like you chalky, it must be less than that. i also think there are way less than 1,000 records worth £1,000 northern-wise?

[Chalky]

i read that and thought like you chalky, it must be less than that. i also think there are way less than 1,000 records worth £1,000 northern-wise?

I would say a couple of dozen serious collectors willing to shell out top $. I'd agree with your second comment that there are less than a 1000 records worth a £1000. Lots of those fetching a grand and over are over priced IMHO.

[Peter Richer]

paultp Posted Today, 12:16 PM

QUOTE(Peter Richer @ Jul 23 2006, 11:00 PM)

paultp Posted Today, 08:13 PM

QUOTE(Peter Richer @ Jul 23 2006, 10:50 AM)

I'm sorry to pick on this post but I think there are too many posts on this forum in the vein of " it can't be worth that cos I paid sixpence for it in 197X".

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Paul, you have completely missed the point of my post.

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I don't think I did really, I was just making a different point and used your post to reply to, which is what I said in the first paragraph.

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Except, of course, that I never said (nor implied) anything at all like:

" it can't be worth that cos I paid sixpence for it in 197X".

which is what you put in your first paragraph!!

So who is it who keeps saying 'it can't be worth that cos I paid sixpence for it in 197X'?? ... I think we should be told, and then we can flog them to death with 1970s pop stompers - which of course STILL ARE only worth sixpence (if that)!!! Lol

Never mind, let's just forget it.

Now, how much is that Frank Wilson or whatever it's called worth again .. ??!?

[Peter Richer]

Another quick point, and question, on the Masqueraders - How.

This sold not just once, but twice, on John's Auctions for more than £1,100.

Does anyone know whether any other copies in excellent condition have sold for less than, say, £500 in the last 12 months?

I've not seen one for sale apart from the one Sid Jones had up on here for £1,000 a few months ago.

[paultp]

paultp Posted Today, 12:16 PM

QUOTE(Peter Richer @ Jul 23 2006, 11:00 PM)

paultp Posted Today, 08:13 PM

QUOTE(Peter Richer @ Jul 23 2006, 10:50 AM)

I'm sorry to pick on this post but I think there are too many posts on this forum in the vein of " it can't be worth that cos I paid sixpence for it in 197X".

------------------------------------------------------------------

Paul, you have completely missed the point of my post.

--------------------------------------

I don't think I did really, I was just making a different point and used your post to reply to, which is what I said in the first paragraph.

--------------------------------------

Except, of course, that I never said (nor implied) anything at all like:

" it can't be worth that cos I paid sixpence for it in 197X".

which is what you put in your first paragraph!!

So who is it who keeps saying 'it can't be worth that cos I paid sixpence for it in 197X'?? ... I think we should be told, and then we can flog them to death with 1970s pop stompers - which of course STILL ARE only worth sixpence (if that)!!! Lol

Never mind, let's just forget it.

Now, how much is that Frank Wilson or whatever it's called worth again .. ??!?

As I said I just used your post to reply to, I wasn't implying that you'd made any statement or implied anything or commenting on your post in anyway whatsoever I just used it to reply to, I clicked "Reply" on the last post of a topic to make a general comment.

Sod it I'll start a new topic next time, must go and open the pub.

[Chalky]

Another quick point, and question, on the Masqueraders - How.

This sold not just once, but twice, on John's Auctions for more than £1,100.

Does anyone know whether any other copies in excellent condition have sold for less than, say, £500 in the last 12 months?

I've not seen one for sale apart from the one Sid Jones had up on here for £1,000 a few months ago.

I saw one for sale for less than £500 after the first one John auctioned. It was only VG+ I think condition wise but condition doesn't seem to affect prices on other auctions such as e-bay where mint prices are paid for wornm copies.

If you look back in topics the general consensus at the time John auctioned the first one was that it was a £300 record, not just on ehere but other forums and chat groups as well. Even John's second guide, which was the current guide at the time lists it at £200, Tim listed it at £300.

Now because of one (what many considered a silly price) auction price of £1100, that is now the going rate. And there's been several about for sale since. I still don't think it's worth over a £1000

[Eddie Hubbard]

"Mikki Farrow - Set My Heart At Ease - was regularly on Soul Bowl during the late 1970s for £6"

Pete, remember those naughty counterfeits. I think the REAL DEAL Mikki Farrow is rare..

And the copy I bought for a "sick-squid" in the 70s was certainly not the real deal.

I bought an original Mikki Farrow for £8 off Soul Bowl at this time .But you're right John that it doesn't turn up for sale very often these days .Best Wishes ,Eddie

[Pete S]

I saw one for sale for less than £500 after the first one John auctioned. It was only VG+ I think condition wise but condition doesn't seem to affect prices on other auctions such as e-bay where mint prices are paid for wornm copies.

If you look back in topics the general consensus at the time John auctioned the first one was that it was a £300 record, not just on ehere but other forums and chat groups as well. Even John's second guide, which was the current guide at the time lists it at £200, Tim listed it at £300.

Now because of one (what many considered a silly price) auction price of £1100, that is now the going rate. And there's been several about for sale since. I still don't think it's worth over a £1000

This is the best explanation so far.

One freak auction result and the price quadruples.

This applies to more or less anything!

I'm used to selling Tobi Legend for 100, 125 quid - now it's over 300 apparently

[steve z]

I know its been done several times before, but can somebody please post up the link to the closing prices on Johns auctions please.

And I'll remember to save it to favourites I promise.

Thanks

Steve

Hi Steve ...just read thru' all the responses....and something again occurs..it seems KNOWN rarities are still demanding money.I've said this before "catch up collecting/come into money"collectors.........nothing wrong IMO...originals etc etc BUT collecting to me is about lesser known rarities...ALBERTA WEEKS?ATB Steve

[Modernsoulsucks]

I think it's worth repeating here that if you have the 45 it's worth far less than you thought. If you don't have it then it's worth far more than you thought.

ROD

[vaultofsouler]

Hi Steve ...just read thru' all the responses....and something again occurs..it seems KNOWN rarities are still demanding money.I've said this before "catch up collecting/come into money"collectors.........nothing wrong IMO...originals etc etc BUT collecting to me is about lesser known rarities...ALBERTA WEEKS?ATB Steve

Steve... your a "gud egg" BUT.... why does every response to any thread on "tunes" from you always.... and I mean ALWAYS.... portrays your good self as "the be all and end all" collector of "unknown stuff" and anybody else is, to quote you, "catch up collecting/come into money collectors".... just struggle to get my heafd around it sometimes....

Surely a "soulie" who buys/collects records is just that.... "a soulie".... whether with or without knowledge or money.... to me they are at least....

Not knocking you pal .... it's just I keep reading the same sort of resonses to other peolple's replies to records and just don't quite get it ....

[Harrogatesoul]

Think what Steve might be implying , and he does state ' it seems KNOWN rarities are still demanding money ' - that the market / demand is bigger than ever for the established rarities / classics? Steve may correct me on this but I think he might be saying that there are many many great and good 45s out there without the price tags that are worth chasing and are worthy of more exposure? This is a time old argument about newies / underplayed etc etc. I think Steve is promoting his ethos on collecting and standing firm by it -nowt wrong with that!

We all know there are more copies of certain 45s out there - but , and it is to the detrement of those who cannot afford fave 45s - once a price is established it tends to run with it. Maybe not for ever for a certain period of time. Re. Cashmeres disc - A mate of mine on a US buying trip , ooh about 12 years ago - found a couple. Guy walks into his shop - gets chatting -and sells it for £500. Over paid? Maybe at the time, but he offered the cash and that was what he was prepared to pay. He seemed the ' catch up collecting/come into money" type of collector Steve mentions.

Same sh*t different gravy!

Rich

[steve z]

Steve... your a "gud egg" BUT.... why does every response to any thread on "tunes" from you always.... and I mean ALWAYS.... portrays your good self as "the be all and end all" collector of "unknown stuff" and anybody else is, to quote you, "catch up collecting/come into money collectors".... just struggle to get my heafd around it sometimes....

Surely a "soulie" who buys/collects records is just that.... "a soulie".... whether with or without knowledge or money.... to me they are at least....

Not knocking you pal .... it's just I keep reading the same sort of resonses to other peolple's replies to records and just don't quite get it ....

Hi Mark...hope you are well ...I have not in this response,IMO stated other than the money paid out for KNOWN rarities is way too much in my opinion and that as a collector for 30++years(not revealing my age ) .I really believe that the money spent today on known rarities is way above there true value DEMAND for an original has driven the price up.........I am not bothered at all about this fact.......I have sold quite a few mentioned on this thread for loads more, than I paid a long time ago.

I am NOT the be and end etc as you have stated.........but have just placed a few ideas on threads with regard to Lesser known items ....and as usual get very little response...with regard to a tune I mention...ALBERTA WEEKS...?

I have seen you jotting down titles that are played out at the Greatstone...that I suppose is my belief NEW TO ME....

So is it safe to purchase a known original.......for 5 times its true worth or pay out £500 for an unknown....I do the latter........ATB Stevie ...P.S. thanks for your honest reply

[steve z]

Think what Steve might be implying , and he does state ' it seems KNOWN rarities are still demanding money ' - that the market / demand is bigger than ever for the established rarities / classics? Steve may correct me on this but I think he might be saying that there are many many great and good 45s out there without the price tags that are worth chasing and are worthy of more exposure? This is a time old argument about newies / underplayed etc etc. I think Steve is promoting his ethos on collecting and standing firm by it -nowt wrong with that!

We all know there are more copies of certain 45s out there - but , and it is to the detrement of those who cannot afford fave 45s - once a price is established it tends to run with it. Maybe not for ever for a certain period of time. Re. Cashmeres disc - A mate of mine on a US buying trip , ooh about 12 years ago - found a couple. Guy walks into his shop - gets chatting -and sells it for £500. Over paid? Maybe at the time, but he offered the cash and that was what he was prepared to pay. He seemed the ' catch up collecting/come into money" type of collector Steve mentions.

Same sh*t different gravy!

Rich

Hi Rich...thankyou for summing up I certainly did not imply that I am the be all etc

Mark I sold my copy of the Cashmeres several years ago to Jim Barry for £900 when he sold up he obtained a few hundred £ more I am not complaining about what a record obtains but as a few have said on this thread How can known and I choose the word wisely

RARITIES that turn up quite often ,bring the money they do.As A long time collector I certainly would not be after the Cashmeres,good double sider as it is IMO...when I can possibly have something in my collection that is NEW TO ME ..ATB to those reading this

Stevie z

[Ernie Andrews]

I am interested in this term "Known Copies" What equates to value is a number of factors which again is all subjective but its this term Known copies that interests me

If there are 5 known copies does it make it rare if infact there were 5000 made and because you do not know what happened to the others does this threrefore make the record rare and ultimately reflect price? Or If the 5 known copies actually were 5 in circulation but a dealer has 100 of them but is not prepapred to part with them would this ultimately affect the price? of the circulated copies.

Or am I just speaking SH**E as usual

[Steve G]

I am interested in this term "Known Copies" What equates to value is a number of factors which again is all subjective but its this term Known copies that interests me

If there are 5 known copies does it make it rare if infact there were 5000 made and because you do not know what happened to the others does this threrefore make the record rare and ultimately reflect price? Or If the 5 known copies actually were 5 in circulation but a dealer has 100 of them but is not prepapred to part with them would this ultimately affect the price? of the circulated copies.

Or am I just speaking SH**E as usual

Partly, though how this "known copy" thing is actually calculated baffles me. Whilst dealers aren't sitting on stocks of 100 of any rare records, I don't know how anyone knows where all the copies of anything are, or put another way when some of these reviews of record collections was done. Can't remember anyone doing mine, unless it was when I was in the US - the missues did mention something about us being audited - didn't realise it was for records - and I don't think I am alone.

[Tomangoes]

Well I think one thing we can all agree on is that its brilliant when you find a rare expensive record for half its 'normal value'.

I never found it thrilling paying more for a record than its 'normal value', but some people always have and I understand why.

I just paid 750 euros (x3) to see England play on a ticket marked at 15% of that price, so with a rush of blood, I understand why records sell at so called inflated prices. In fact the auction part makes it worse because sense goes out of the window.

And the auctioneers know it.

Ed

[Dave Moore]

if you have the 45 it's worth far less than you thought. If you don't have it then it's worth far more than you thought.

ROD

Rod,

You just decribed my current life in a single sentence.

Regards,

Dave

www.theresthatbeat.com

www.hitsvillesoulclub.com

[P5OULH]

Hi Rich...thankyou for summing up I certainly did not imply that I am the be all etc

Mark I sold my copy of the Cashmeres several years ago to Jim Barry for £900 when he sold up he obtained a few hundred £ more I am not complaining about what a record obtains but as a few have said on this thread How can known and I choose the word wisely

RARITIES that turn up quite often ,bring the money they do.As A long time collector I certainly would not be after the Cashmeres,good double sider as it is IMO...when I can possibly have something in my collection that is NEW TO ME ..ATB to those reading this

Stevie z

Hi just to reiterate what point Stevie was trying to make is, as collectors we can not believe the prices that well known oldies are fetching, maybe demand has driven the price up but the point Stevie was trying to make is why pay over the odds for a well known tune when for a quarter of the price you can obtain maybe the next cashmeres if you have enough of an open mind at the end of the day most collectors queue up at the decks when a known dj drops an unknown slab of sheer brilliance on the decks who knows maybe for £500 or less that could be the dj playing your unknown slab of quality northern, its all about personel preference, i know i would rather pay less for an unknown and turn it into the next cashmeres but the point is Stevie had an opinion and isn' that what this forum is all about opinions how else can you conduct a discussion forum ps i have a cashmeres for sale if anyone wants one offers thank you a good night

[Ged Parker]

Another quick point, and question, on the Masqueraders - How.

This sold not just once, but twice, on John's Auctions for more than £1,100.

Does anyone know whether any other copies in excellent condition have sold for less than, say, £500 in the last 12 months?

I've not seen one for sale apart from the one Sid Jones had up on here for £1,000 a few months ago.

The copy Sid had for £1,000 a few months ago had actually sold for considerably less than £500 a few months earlier when Sid bought it at Middleton. Not for me to say but it was considerably less than £500 and less than 12 months ago or not much more.

Agree it is a rare item though.

[Simon T]

Sy Hightower - I Know You're Leaving Me – Carmen £732

Pat & The Blenders - Just Because c/w All I Need Is Your Love - Fast Eddie £484

Billy Prophet - What Can I Do? - Sue Promo £589

Bessie Banks - I can't Make It (without you baby) c/w I Need - Verve Promo £233

Five Chances - Stranger I Love You c/w I'll Miss You (when you're gone) – Finch 59

Spyder Turner - I'm Alive With A Lovin' Feeling + 3 - MGM France EP £309

Flowers - We Could Make It Happen – Lax £188

Jimmy Robins - I Just Can't Please You - Impression promo £139

Unknown Girl Group - Spellbound - Dick Charles 10" acetate £106

C.P. Love - Spiritual Love - Moon Wind £109

The Jokers - Soul Sound - Sko – Field £972

The Peoples's Choice - Savin' My Lovin' For You – Palmer £431