Pre Stateside Motown

[kevinsoulman]

have just aquired shop around miracles on london american,

is it worth owt.

i only really collect us motown and am thinking of selling it on

ta kev

Edited May 24, 2014 by kevinsoulman

[Guest miff]

One on popsike went for £39

[Soulstu]

Aren't the Oriole releases really desirable? I remember reading something in Record Collector years ago... Mike & The Modifiers and the Valadiers and all that?

Edited May 24, 2014 by SoulStu

[pikeys dog]

London American

 

Fontana

 

Oriole

 

 

All fairly collectable.

[dthedrug]

 Hi All...... To answer your question yes it's a must for any soul collection Value does vary from time to time in mint condition £30 to £40, the DEMO is worth more, but hard to price,, the EP Shop Around is very rare again it is pointless putting a price up for you because of rarity issues fluctuate so much with demand a guess would be £150, 

However a good find I think  DAVE K

[Benji]

Just wondering, is the Miracles on London the very first Motown record to be released in the UK? Or are there any others predating it? I could imagine that maybe some early Marv Johnson came out before?

[pikeys dog]

Depends on what you class as a Motown record Benji...

 

Paul Gayten The Hunch came out on London  - 45 and 78.

 

Then there's Jackie Wilson Reet Petite, written by Berry Gordy...

[45cellar]

Another on Columbia

 

PopSike.com

[Robbk]

Just wondering, is the Miracles on London the very first Motown record to be released in the UK? Or are there any others predating it? I could imagine that maybe some early Marv Johnson came out before?

I see that "Money" by Barrett Strong out in spring 1960, preceding The Miracles "Shop Around" by many months, was released on a later London American number 9088, to "Shop Around"'s 9276.  Also, 4 Marv Johnson records (admittedly UA releases in USA - but Motown produced) were released before "Shop Around's 9276, starting with "You Got What It Takes" in Dec. '59 on 9013, and followed by "I Love The way You Love" on 9109, "Ain't Gonna Be That Way 9165, "Move Two Mountains" 9187 and "Happy Days" 9265.

Edited May 24, 2014 by RobbK

[Robbk]

Depends on what you class as a Motown record Benji...

 

Paul Gayten The Hunch came out on London  - 45 and 78.

 

Then there's Jackie Wilson Reet Petite, written by Berry Gordy...

Not too many people would call Jackie Wilson Brunswick releases "Motown records", nor would they refer to any of the Anna productions as "Motown".  Marv Johnson's recordings leased to United Artists in 1959-1962 were written by Motown writers, produced and recorded by Motown producers in the same studios as concurrent Motown releases were being produced/recorded, using the same session players and back-up singers, and arranged by the same arrangers.  While under his recording contract with UA, Marv Johnson was writing and producing Motown songs and records in Motown's offices. 

 

Jackie Wilson's songs were written by Berry Gordy, but in no way could be considered Motown productions.  They were arranged by Brunswick contractors in New York, and arranged by New Yorkers, instruments played by New York session players.  "Reet Petite" was recorded in 1957, long before Motown Records existed.  But, even Jackie's 1959 and 1960 recordings, recorded after Motown was in operation, had only Berry Gordy's writing as a link.  Cornell Blakely's Ace and Mercury-distributed Rich records releases are much more "Motown" than Jackie Wilson's Gordy-written releases, or even non-Barrett Strong Anna releases. 

 

Even The Spinners' "That's What Girls Are Made For", is a bit less a "Motown record" than Marv Johnson's '59-'62 releases, as although it was recorded in "The Snakepit", using Motown session players, it was produced by non-Motown staff, and written by non-Motown staff, and sung by non-Motown singers.  Although Marv Johnson wasn't a contracted Motown singer while contracted to UA, he was a contracted Motown songwriter and producer, and was currently working for Motwn.  None of Gwen Gordy, Harvey Fuqua nor any of The Spinners were working for Motown at that time, in any capacity, as far as I know.

[45cellar]

It is an interesting question.
 
Although records may pre date did they simply help to finance or give exposure to the first pure Motown Product.
 
i.e. Shop Around was the first Number One Hit on the Billboard R & B Singles chart.
 
Here is a thread from 2011 that may be Interesting to collectors regarding the later transision to the >>> <<< Logo

[Becket]

 

 

Check this out.  Penned by Berry Gordy , Gwen Gordy.   Early sounding Non-Motown from 1959.

Could this be played today as a "popcorn" or R&B 45 ?

 

 

Cheers................                 Tom.   Banbury.

[Rotherham Soul]

I always thought Marv Johnson's "Come To Me" was the first UK released Motown record, a Motown recording but leased to UA (London 8856 so predates You've Got What It Takes)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x6C9gD7Z_I

Edited May 25, 2014 by rotherham soul

[Liamgp]

This guy, MotownMaster, is an interesting source of info on early Motown-related stuff. Is he on here under another name?

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6GUoHfuppQKgbQOuNSuzIQ

[Robbk]

I always thought Marv Johnson's "Come To Me" was the first UK released Motown record, a Motown recording but leased to UA (London 8856 so predates You've Got What It Takes)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x6C9gD7Z_I

Naturally, this is the first UK issue of a Motown record, as it was the first Motown record, issued one month before Wade Jones on RayBer.

[Guest]

https://www.notnowmusic.com/midnight-special-the-oriole-records-story-1956-1962.html

 

 

 

Some nice Oriole information on here

[maslar]

Not too many people would call Jackie Wilson Brunswick releases "Motown records", nor would they refer to any of the Anna productions as "Motown".  Marv Johnson's recordings leased to United Artists in 1959-1962 were written by Motown writers, produced and recorded by Motown producers in the same studios as concurrent Motown releases were being produced/recorded, using the same session players and back-up singers, and arranged by the same arrangers.  While under his recording contract with UA, Marv Johnson was writing and producing Motown songs and records in Motown's offices. 

 

Jackie Wilson's songs were written by Berry Gordy, but in no way could be considered Motown productions.  They were arranged by Brunswick contractors in New York, and arranged by New Yorkers, instruments played by New York session players.  "Reet Petite" was recorded in 1957, long before Motown Records existed.  But, even Jackie's 1959 and 1960 recordings, recorded after Motown was in operation, had only Berry Gordy's writing as a link.  Cornell Blakely's Ace and Mercury-distributed Rich records releases are much more "Motown" than Jackie Wilson's Gordy-written releases, or even non-Barrett Strong Anna releases. 

 

Even The Spinners' "That's What Girls Are Made For", is a bit less a "Motown record" than Marv Johnson's '59-'62 releases, as although it was recorded in "The Snakepit", using Motown session players, it was produced by non-Motown staff, and written by non-Motown staff, and sung by non-Motown singers.  Although Marv Johnson wasn't a contracted Motown singer while contracted to UA, he was a contracted Motown songwriter and producer, and was currently working for Motwn.  None of Gwen Gordy, Harvey Fuqua nor any of The Spinners were working for Motown at that time, in any capacity, as far as I know.

 

Not counting "You Got What It Takes" which was stolen from Bobby Parker who wrote and recorded it earlier in 1957.

 

The first information I ever got about early Motown releases came via the British publication Record Collector July 1980  (which i still have). it stated the four London singles as the first Uk Motown  although I later discovered that this information is only partly correct:

 

Paul Gayton - The Hunch 8998 Nov 1959 an Anna release so, as you say, not really Motown

Barrett Strong - Money 9088 April 1960 - Originally Tamla but released on London as an Anna recording.

The Miracles - Shop Around 9276  -  Feb 1961

The Miracles - Ain't It Baby 9366 - June 1961

 

But as previously mentioned the first UK Motown was Come To Me (Tamla 101) which pre-dates all these

[Robbk]

Not counting "You Got What It Takes" which was stolen from Bobby Parker who wrote and recorded it earlier in 1957.

 

The first information I ever got about early Motown releases came via the British publication Record Collector July 1980  (which i still have). it stated the four London singles as the first Uk Motown  although I later discovered that this information is only partly correct:

 

Paul Gayton - The Hunch 8998 Nov 1959 an Anna release so, as you say, not really Motown

Barrett Strong - Money 9088 April 1960 - Originally Tamla but released on London as an Anna recording.

The Miracles - Shop Around 9276  -  Feb 1961

The Miracles - Ain't It Baby 9366 - June 1961

 

But as previously mentioned the first UK Motown was Come To Me (Tamla 101) which pre-dates all these.

Does anyone know if Berry Gordy (Tamla) leased UK rights to Marv Johnson's "Come To Me" directly to London American, or the rights to foreign release were given to United Artists in their lease?  My first guess would have been that UA probably would have asked for the foreign rights in their lease.  Does it say "A Tamla Records Production", or "An United Artists Records Production" on the London American issue of "Come To Me"?  Clearly, Anna Records got the foreign rights to "Money" in their lease.

[MotownDave]

can't say about 'come to me' but the others credit them as 'united artists' recordings and going by the you-tube post above It also credits UA not motown

Edited May 26, 2014 by MotownDave

[Robbk]

Just as I thought.  UA got the foreign rights in their lease, and THEY leased "Come To Me" to London American.

[Stillsoulin]

i too have a copy of the francis burnett on uk coral, may have been spun on the rnb scene, she also has a few other interesting singles on us coral, also written by various motown connected writers, very early sounding and probably not of much interest to most on here, she did a few duffers too. nice to have tho and dont turn up very often, quite a tough find on uk issue, i have seen a one sided 45 uk demo too

[Kegsy]

Just as I thought.  UA got the foreign rights in their lease, and THEY leased "Come To Me" to London American.

 

 

Just for your info, UA didn't have a UK imprint until 1962.

Just in case you were wondering why they leased it to London American.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Kegsy

[Robbk]

I already knew that.  But, had I not, I would have guessed that for that very reason.  I can't think of even one situation in which a decently-sized US record company had a OK imprint, but least one of their in-house productions to a competitive UK rival  (although, I suspect their are a couple instances of exceptions to that rule).

[Robbk]

i too have a copy of the francis burnett on uk coral, may have been spun on the rnb scene, she also has a few other interesting singles on us coral, also written by various motown connected writers, very early sounding and probably not of much interest to most on here, she did a few duffers too. nice to have tho and don't turn up very often, quite a tough find on uk issue, i have seen a one sided 45 uk demo too

Frances Burnett was a Philadelphia artist, who was recorded by Decca/Coral/Brunswick in New York, using Dick Jacobs' Orchestra.  She had been recording  and having records released since 1957, and stayed with Coral into the '60s.  But, for a time in 1959 and 1960, her producer (Nat Tarnopol?), had her singing songs written by Motown writers (Berry and Gwen Gordy and Smokey Robinson) apparently dovetailing on Tarnopol's deal with Berry to write for Jackie Wilson.  When that deal for Wilson was terminated, the Jobete songs stopped appearing on Burnett's records.  In addition, there was a release on Decca in early 1960, by Ken Masters, which was written by Berry Gordy and Smokey Robinson on both sides, published by Motown's Jobete Music, and, for whatever reason, recorded in The Snakepit, at Motown.  Masters of his recordings were found in Motown's Vaults,  His release must have borne some relation to the Jackie Wilson and Frances burnett deals with Gordy.

Edited May 29, 2014 by RobbK

[Stillsoulin]

interesting stuff Robbk, thanks