Could It Happen Again ?

[Citizen P]

Just reading the the discoverers/ breakers thread and picking up on a point raised by Dthedrug. i.e Focal Point for the scene..

 

Bear with me.

 

When I first began my career we could go to a local club almost every night of the week, then at the Weekend off to the BIG Allnighter/Club- I'll start with Wigan, cos that was my first..-Torch, Mecca, whatever, for the full tribal gathering.

 

Sounds that were big at a local level were brought along for the DJs to play and sometimes, went on to become big at the large venue and of course these had there own plays too....

 

So could this happen again ?

The scene, for want of a better term is so fragmented with a thousand and 1 dos on all over the weekend that a BIG venue probably wouldn't work,

Would you go out in the week, or are we all too old and knackered ?

Would you go to a big gathering on a weekly/ fortnightly/monthly basis. ??

 

Would you only go if you were DJing ??  

 

No plans here, just musing...

 

 

[Geeselad]

no basically, the scene just isnt big enough,  I've commented several times on the lack of progression from rare soul scene/ funky/ upfront into the oldies nights, it all stopped around 15 years ago imho, seems there very little consistancy in the musci played between  any venues nowadays.

[Citizen P]

no basically, the scene just isnt big enough,  I've commented several times on the lack of progression from rare soul scene/ funky/ upfront into the oldies nights, it all stopped around 15 years ago imho, seems there very little consistancy in the musci played between  any venues nowadays.

 

 

Which scene ??

With over 50 events any given weekend, all getting 200+ in     that's  10,000 "Soulies",  looks big to me    

[Guest Carl Dixon]

Permission to dip my toe in here? 

 

In recent years I have started to attend a number of events taking place. Making the effort to find them (using the Soul Source event guide and FB advisories) and doing so, has given me more of an incentive to get out even more, hear new and old sounds (to my ears) and have a dance, which is the priority most of the time. If I get chance to socialise that's a bonus. 

 

What I have noticed that there are venues which have their own style, presumably because of the DJ's who pride themselves with their record collection and attendees who appreciate that. I rely on that also, to introduce me to material I have never heard before and enjoy.

 

Would I go out during the week? - Yes

Would I go to the bigger gatherings? - Yes

 

As long as I can dance, and have reasonable space to do so, a good sound system, and records that tick my boxes, I will still go out during the week or weekends when I can. A couple of weeks ago I was at the Torquay soul weekender. Great dance floor and records.Tomorrow it's the HooDoo event in Hersham, and I also attend the Soulnites club in Teddington and indeed The Hull Soul Club when I can. Also there is a chance I can do a short DJ spot on an open deck event soon too, where I can show off what few records I have from back in the day and for the first time, hear them in a room with others, rather than at home.

 

So in the grand scheme of things...I am feeling great about the music, still writing, being creative but my other leisure time is on the dance floor. It's the best place to be!

[Winnie :-)]

Just reading the the discoverers/ breakers thread and picking up on a point raised by Dthedrug. i.e Focal Point for the scene..

 

Bear with me.

 

When I first began my career we could go to a local club almost every night of the week, then at the Weekend off to the BIG Allnighter/Club- I'll start with Wigan, cos that was my first..-Torch, Mecca, whatever, for the full tribal gathering.

 

Sounds that were big at a local level were brought along for the DJs to play and sometimes, went on to become big at the large venue and of course these had there own plays too....

 

So could this happen again ?

The scene, for want of a better term is so fragmented with a thousand and 1 dos on all over the weekend that a BIG venue probably wouldn't work,

Would you go out in the week, or are we all too old and knackered ?

Would you go to a big gathering on a weekly/ fortnightly/monthly basis. ??

 

Would you only go if you were DJing ??  

 

No plans here, just musing...

No I don't think it can happen again, the scene as you rightly say is fragmented, too many want to be DJs and promoters who would like a piece of the pie, none of them are going to willingly step aside for 'the good of the scene'. Too many punters who don't want to travel, or listen to anything new, if it were a goer then Stoke or something similar would probably be running every week. It also has to be factored in, would any promoter want to take the time, or devote the energy these days. I'm generally talking from our age groups perspective, should something extraordinary happen via the film promotions and youngsters start to attend events in their droves then perhaps that would change things, but would anybody be convinced that the new 'super club' had been created for anything other than profit?

[Liamgp]

I understand that prior to Wigan the 'Northern scene' was a series of venues each with its own identity and sounds that often were unknown to the next venue and its attendees 50 miles away or whatever. Wigan certainly centralised things for a lot of people but the Mecca at Blackpool sounds like it was a quite different thing altogether and, as far as I understand, Cleethorpes was different again.

 

In my own 80s experience, Stafford was certainly nothing like Morecambe and the only place that seemed to be a 'centre' for the scene was the 100 Club, which it still is today, as you could meet people from all over the country and hear all kinds of styles.

[Steve L]

No, no and no…….well you did ask

[Chalky]

No it will never happen again.  To many promoters with their own agendas and couldn't care less about the bigger picture or the future of the scene. 

[Geeselad]

Which scene ??

With over 50 events any given weekend, all getting 200+ in     that's  10,000 "Soulies",  looks big to me    

 

ok, too small minded might of been a better choice of words. there is certainly plenty of northern soul themed events out there, but I wouldnt really describe them as part of a universal scene anymore.

[Soulman]

ok, too small minded might of been a better choice of words. there is certainly plenty of northern soul themed events out there, but I wouldnt really describe them as part of a universal scene anymore.

 

 

....and thats exactly the problem. Theme nights complete with fancy dress and, without being disrespectful (because some are quite good) the same old party records over and over again. One other thing I've noticed too, and apologies if it offends but it's the truth, some of these youngsters who have ventured on to the scene have a real cocky attitude now that their names have become somewhat familiar. I feel the Grim Reaper awaits!

 

Steve

Edited May 23, 2014 by soulman

[Chalky]

The nearest the scene has come to having a focal point in recent years was with Sheridan's.  Quality night every week with various clubs involved, Lifeline, Soultown, Joe Dutton with the R&B club plus various soul nights at the time.  Now the scene is f*cked with too many self centred promoters, too many events clashing with no thought what so ever for what is already there.

[Mark S]

From what I see the scene for want of a better word is to contrived , in the early days it just seened to evolve onto what it was now its retrospective with very little forward thinking . Even the handfull of youngsters around are apeing what has gone before .

 

Midweek events would suit me less divs and handbaggers as for a focal point with the dominance of the weekenders and nostalgic nighters the focus has changed as has the scene .

[Guest Byrney]

ok, too small minded might of been a better choice of words. there is certainly plenty of northern soul themed events out there, but I wouldnt really describe them as part of a universal scene anymore.

Sums it up for me, too many nights that pretend to be Northern Soul but are far from it. Nope, in this country I think it's done and dusted.

[Quinvy]

None of that is anything to do with it. There's only one reason why it's dead:

 

There's no new 60's northern.   

[Philt]

Said it before and doubt very much it'd ever happen because of all of the above but I'd turn up at the equivalent of what used to be the Ritz 'rarest of the rare' say three times a year.

 

I think we're all realistic to know it ain't what it used to be and, for all the reasons already stated, it ain't gonna be again, not ever.

 

What the vast majority of nites are missing is, I think, the atmosphere and different buzz you get altogether from hearing records in a big room with a packed, bouncing dancefloor. Personally, I can take or leave the back room of a pub with 12 people in and well meaning folk playing records which, if we're honest, ain't really up to it in the main. I'll take a chinese and fall asleep on the sofa rather than make the effort for that, and do most weekends.

 

There's loads of things on but, with no disrespect to anyone, how many of em would encourage a 47 year old bloke with two kids who's worked his nads off all week and been going out pretty solidly for 30 years+ make the extra effort? Very few.

 

Old, tired, going even balder and thoroughly bored with most of it to be perfectly honest. Always looking and hoping though; you gotta ain't ya.  

[Guest gaz thomas]

oh no the scene ........

 

the old question again

 

I personally don't think it matters and will not be an issue much in the future

The collectors scene will be here forever

The scene dont mean anything to me any more

I had my fun and my time on it in the 80s and very early 90s but now I just love the music

Im not buying flogged oldies but digging for new to me stuff all the time, including R&B / Boogaloo and always have

 

i have always collected records, and in the 80s the Northern all-night scene were an important place to be.

The guys with the 60s un sold store stock were there

DJs like Guy H were playing them

I find records now that make me happy without having to go out anywhere

And that is why I don't bother going out

the scene i remember was underground full of good music and mad people and good gear

 

It wont  go away and disappear, the music is too good and the idea is fantastic

but it is not for me, I had my time and am not going to embarrass myself and try and squeeze into a pair of  hipsters @ 45

the young will realize great music, just like we did

that's the way it will be 

 

that is with out mentioning how 60s vintage has followings in japan germany france spain etc

 

usa 60s soul music will never be bettered, i dont think america will ever have that focus on music again 

the bands,singers,theatres,studios, record company are all gone

All we are left with are the old records and our taste ! 

Keep diggin ! 

 

g 

Edited May 24, 2014 by gaz thomas

[Zed1]

Can't see it happening again. Although if the present 'Circus' that's now hijacked the scene decides to move to something else, and we could get back to something that resembles the scene that we all signed up for back in the day, then it may have a chance again in some small way.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Zed1

[paultp]

The OP mentioned a focal point for the scene and that's something that could only exist in an age before the internet. People had to travel to the focal point to hear new records, pick up knowledge and transfer them back to their local scene.

 

The focal point now for many is soul-source, facebook etc.

 

Information and music has never been more available, you can see a record play listed or talked about or up for sale, hear it instantly, get an idea of what the price should be, buy it from anywhere in the world and have it delivered in about the same time as it would take to get a record off a list in the 70's. You can research labels, groups, writers, artists without having to travel.

 

People talk of the current "circus" but these people have always been part of the scene, the focus on original vinyl is something that has only ever appealed to a minority. Most people just want to hear the music. I'm still amazed that events where the tunes are played off mp3 are not more prolific. In its heyday, the scene was about venues and DJs, the playing of bootlegs and emidiscs by DJs was common, but this was because new sounds were being discovered all the time and to get them accepted needed them playing to the audience at the focal point. Having the actual records was less important, its only become important as people built up collections and new sounds became more difficult to find. You can bootleg new sounds straight away now if you want to, but it should be remembered that to bootleg something you have to have access to it and that was always the case.

 

I can't see any venue becoming a focal point for the scene ever again, there's no reason for it.

[Quinvy]

The OP mentioned a focal point for the scene and that's something that could only exist in an age before the internet. People had to travel to the focal point to hear new records, pick up knowledge and transfer them back to their local scene.

 

The focal point now for many is soul-source, facebook etc.

 

Information and music has never been more available, you can see a record play listed or talked about or up for sale, hear it instantly, get an idea of what the price should be, buy it from anywhere in the world and have it delivered in about the same time as it would take to get a record off a list in the 70's. You can research labels, groups, writers, artists without having to travel.

 

People talk of the current "circus" but these people have always been part of the scene, the focus on original vinyl is something that has only ever appealed to a minority. Most people just want to hear the music. I'm still amazed that events where the tunes are played off mp3 are not more prolific. In its heyday, the scene was about venues and DJs, the playing of bootlegs and emidiscs by DJs was common, but this was because new sounds were being discovered all the time and to get them accepted needed them playing to the audience at the focal point. Having the actual records was less important, its only become important as people built up collections and new sounds became more difficult to find. You can bootleg new sounds straight away now if you want to, but it should be remembered that to bootleg something you have to have access to it and that was always the case.

 

I can't see any venue becoming a focal point for the scene ever again, there's no reason for it.

 

You make many valid points Paul, however, if an allnighter suddenly sprang up with Dj's playing all new quality 60's northern, I'd be there like a shot, and so would many more who have left the scene because they have heard it all before. It's never going to happen of course, but that's the only scenario that would ever make it happen again.

[Soulman]

The OP mentioned a focal point for the scene and that's something that could only exist in an age before the internet. People had to travel to the focal point to hear new records, pick up knowledge and transfer them back to their local scene.

 

The focal point now for many is soul-source, facebook etc.

 

Information and music has never been more available, you can see a record play listed or talked about or up for sale, hear it instantly, get an idea of what the price should be, buy it from anywhere in the world and have it delivered in about the same time as it would take to get a record off a list in the 70's. You can research labels, groups, writers, artists without having to travel.

 

People talk of the current "circus" but these people have always been part of the scene, the focus on original vinyl is something that has only ever appealed to a minority. Most people just want to hear the music. I'm still amazed that events where the tunes are played off mp3 are not more prolific. In its heyday, the scene was about venues and DJs, the playing of bootlegs and emidiscs by DJs was common, but this was because new sounds were being discovered all the time and to get them accepted needed them playing to the audience at the focal point. Having the actual records was less important, its only become important as people built up collections and new sounds became more difficult to find. You can bootleg new sounds straight away now if you want to, but it should be remembered that to bootleg something you have to have access to it and that was always the case.

 

I can't see any venue becoming a focal point for the scene ever again, there's no reason for it.

 

 

In essence I agree with your comment apart from "always been a part of the scene". The "circus" as I see it is very much down to those who may have been on the scene in the early years, left to do whatever and then drifted back over the last ten years or so ago. I've never been away from the scene until maybe the last couple of years and I'm happy to say that there was a time where music and fashion progressed at a steady pace. There were far less baggy pants and circle skirts around ten years ago and far less twenty years ago. It's those who have ventured back wanting to hear the same old same old and take a trip back in time that are causing the backlash IMHO.

 

Steve  

[KevH]

Said it before and doubt very much it'd ever happen because of all of the above but I'd turn up at the equivalent of what used to be the Ritz 'rarest of the rare' say three times a year.

 

I think we're all realistic to know it ain't what it used to be and, for all the reasons already stated, it ain't gonna be again, not ever.

 

What the vast majority of nites are missing is, I think, the atmosphere and different buzz you get altogether from hearing records in a big room with a packed, bouncing dancefloor. Personally, I can take or leave the back room of a pub with 12 people in and well meaning folk playing records which, if we're honest, ain't really up to it in the main. I'll take a chinese and fall asleep on the sofa rather than make the effort for that, and do most weekends.

 

There's loads of things on but, with no disrespect to anyone, how many of em would encourage a 47 year old bloke with two kids who's worked his nads off all week and been going out pretty solidly for 30 years+ make the extra effort? Very few.

 

Old, tired, going even balder and thoroughly bored with most of it to be perfectly honest. Always looking and hoping though; you gotta ain't ya.  

 

That's the rub Phil.Some are always looking for the next venue/record to give the buzz.

Some are quite happy with their lot and are reading this wondering what the hell is being discussed here.I know which camp i'd like to think i'm in.

To my shame, iv'e spent nights in lately when soul nights have been literally  just around the corner.Just not enough of a pull.

I do prefer niters,but even getting to the point that 4-5 am is plenty for me.Why ? Not sure,it must be the buzz is missing,after all we are'nt 18 anymore and are more critical.... and balder. Musically ,agree there are less 60's NS newie's, but always seem to hear something new to me that i like.

Less is more for me at the moment,regarding going out.Hoping the buzz comes back soon.

Edited May 24, 2014 by KevH

[Carty]

I  agree with Paul tp,    THIS ( soul source ) is the focal point nowardays,    So much of what made attending the " weekly  tribal gathering " essential can now be accessed on here,    The darker aspects of the scene , so attractive and exciting  back in the day  hold far less appeal personally today.                                                                I  attend soul nights nowardays maybe on a monthly basis on average , some nights i love it , other times i question what i am doing with my life .                                                                    Because of the egos and potential profits involved , i cant ever see some kind of promoters coalition for the good of the scene happening ( and it probably would be good for the scene )    The only hope would be if a club emerged that was so good that you just had to be there or feel as if you had seriously missed out on something ,  if there were such a place , i would be there on a regular basis , but  as nothing since the seventies has had that kind  effect on me  i feel maybe that ship has sailed .  

[Len]

None of that is anything to do with it. There's only one reason why it's dead:

 

There's no new 60's northern.   

 

I disagree with this (kind of) as in - there are plenty for a lot of people………

 

Ok, so most (if not all) have been played before, but no one, and I mean no one would know them all - In fact I’d say on average most people would know less than a quarter.

 

Through the 80’s the D.J’s were playing records for only a matter of weeks before they shelved them, and in that time relatively very few people would have heard them. I don’t want ‘the same ol’ same ol’ OR ‘the same new same new’, I want the middle ground. I intend to spend my ‘D.Jing time’ breaking these records for a second time, and hopefully a wider appreciation can be had for these fantastic ‘underused’ tunes (There are loads of them)

 

My take on things is actually a positive one, I think while all around we are moaning and criticising (which I often do as for me, generally this past decade hasn’t been up to much) there are little pockets of (what I call) the ‘New Wave Soul Scene’ developing, and I think they will eventually flourish into something very special when a lot of events fade away in the next 5 years or so.

 

All the best,

 

Len

 

P.s - Although some of the young people have had criticism for maybe being slightly misguided, I also think they will find their way ok and be in there at the beginning of what will be an exciting time (getting the same buzz as you older guys did in the 70’s)

Edited May 26, 2014 by LEN

[Quinvy]

I disagree with this (kind of) as in - there are plenty for a lot of people………

 

Ok, so most (if not all) have been played before, but no one, and I mean no one would know them all - In fact I’d say on average most people would know less than a quarter.

 

Through the 80’s the D.J’s were playing records for only a matter of weeks before they shelved them, and in that time relatively very few people would have heard them. I don’t want ‘the same ol’ same ol’ OR ‘the same new same new’, I want the middle ground. I intend to spend my ‘D.Jing time’ breaking these records for a second time, and hopefully a wider appreciation can be had for these fantastic ‘underused’ tunes (There are loads of them)

 

My take on things is actually a positive one, I think while all around we are moaning and criticising (which I often do as for me, generally this past decade hasn’t been up to much) there are little pockets of (what I call) the ‘New Wave Soul Scene’ developing, and I think they will eventually flourish into something very special when a lot of events fade away in the next 5 years or so.

 

All the best,

 

Len

 

P.s - Although some of the young people have had criticism for maybe being slightly misguided, I also think they will find their way ok and be in there at the beginning of what will be an exciting time (getting the same buzz as you older guys did in the 70’s)

 

They'e not northern though Len, I meant records for dancing to. There's plenty of mid tempo/slow stuff and stuff with an awkward beat, but they're not for me.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Quinvy

[Guest gaz thomas]

They'e not northern though Len, I meant records for dancing to. There's plenty of mid tempo/slow stuff and stuff with an awkward beat, but they're not for me.

 

 

I personally would not enjoy a night of just up tempo 60s Soul any more

I would prefer a night of quality  60s Soul of any tempo, with added R&B with Ska ,Boogaloo, Funk, and any other interesting obscure genre

Perhaps that is where things may end up?

 

Open minded collectors of vintage music with no baggage, politics, just musical archaeologists maybe?

Who knows?

 

But it wont be our generation that move things on, in my opinion

We are too old, too full of baggage, oppinions, politics,and other such shit

 

the young will make a scene vibrant and worthwhile again

and if they don't, i wont give a shit, i will just carry on collecting records

 

like i do anyway,

 

If I manage to secure a really nice Jamaican ska 45 it is purely from the collecting point of view,

there is no Jamaican ska scene where I live (I visited Jamaica and there is no vintage scene there, its called dance hall now,)

in the same way that Thelma or Labeat do not exist in Detroit

and the uk northern soul scene is probably a bit tired at the moment

All we have are 45 rpm ghosts to chase

 

I am not influenced by anything other than my own research  and taste.

I apply the same principles to all my taste 

i am not an expert, i just love old records

 

just enjoy what your into !

I'm into vintage music, sunbathing and good red wine

 

perhaps you may find you still love soul music without a scene ?

 

I did

 

keep digging

Edited May 27, 2014 by gaz thomas

[Guest Garry Huxley]

great thread, agree with lots of comments, however far from the scene being depresses or dead i find its like a breath of fresh air and so diverse.

very much like the 80's & 90's allbeit on a more local based for the love of it type of venue rather than profit

,there are still the big venues on every weekend which attract the had core niter goers but not at same venue every time all of which claiming to be the best  but that's not for me, nowadays it is hearing stuff i dont know or which i'd forgotten.

 

another good point is i think we should encourage the young to come and have a listen which i see more of at the smaller nites, if it wasent for my older friends at age 13 i might have been into slade sweet etc.

 

what ever you do just keep on soulin.

 

Garry

[Len]

They'e not northern though Len, I meant records for dancing to. There's plenty of mid tempo/slow stuff and stuff with an awkward beat, but they're not for me.

 

That's a fair comment mate, and fair enough that they are not for you. Although I have to say, there are good Mid-tempo tunes and bad ones (as in the wrong ones) if that makes sense. I do think the appreciation of this type of Soul music is somewhat regional, and my experience of events in and around London for instance seem to really like these type of tunes.

 

Although I disagree on the awkward beat bit (well for the ones I play at least), and have seen lots of people thoroughly enjoying dancing to these, I do agree they are not Northern in the traditional sense.

 

I prefer a night to have 'light and shade' musically, which of course includes the traditional Northern sound.

 

All the best,

 

Len  

 

P.s - To explain my comment....."I don’t want ‘the same ol’ same ol’ OR ‘the same new same new’".......We all know what hearing the 'same ol same ol' is, what I mean by hearing the 'same new same new', is that if I may go somewhere like Life-line for instance to hear these, I don't particularly want to hear those same records somewhere else (or being played by someone else) time and time again, as even those great records risk getting stale.

 

P.p.s - I saw a young lad in somewhat 'traditional' dress this Sat gone. I don't know him, but he was really getting into it, definitely feeling the music, and was by no means a 'div' (It was nice to see)

Edited May 28, 2014 by LEN