Jump to content

The Discoverer Or The Breaker ?


Recommended Posts

So something along the lines of Four Vandals, first played by Ian Levine and broken by Ginger over Ian's head at Manchester Ritz :)  :D

 

Or like when the London lads brought a covered up record to the Mecca for Levine to play.

He played it and ten seconds into the record he broke it in two.

Well it was a version of Maisy Doats after all.

Edited by Kegsy
  • Helpful 2
Link to comment
Social source share

I think I'm right in saying World of Happiness was first played/discovered by Andy Rix (it was certainly him I heard play it first) subsequently I heard an alternate take that Butch played/broke so who would get the credit in that case? Apologies if I've got this wrong, I don't generally pay much attention during 'record talk' :)

Link to comment
Social source share

I take it you mean.

 

This was first played by so and so at such and such (small venue), then it was broken by so and so (big name DJ) at such and such (Big name venue).

Thats why I think all these who played it first threads are rubbish.

What people are asking is, when did an established/big name DJ at an established/big name venue play a tune first.  The said big name DJ could have heard it played at a smaller venue or off of a tape/CD by someone who's not in or is on the periphery of the "big venue" events. Its also another avenue of praising the same big name DJ and raising the pedestal they're on just one notch higher, towards the almighty one. 

Edited by John Reed
  • Helpful 2
Link to comment
Social source share

Thats why I think all these who played it first threads are rubbish.

What people are asking is, when did an established/big name DJ at an established/big name venue play a tune first.  The said big name DJ could have heard it played at a smaller venue or off of a tape/CD by someone who's not in or is on the periphery of the "big venue" events. Its also another avenue of praising the same big name DJ and raising the pedetal that they're on just one notch higher, towards the almighty one. 

 

I remember getting dog's abuse because I said that Cecil Washington I Don't Like to Lose

had been played at the Cats years before Richard played it at Wigan, maybe people

just like the thought of being there when a record was first played whether its true or not.

  • Helpful 1
Link to comment
Social source share

Here's a couple teasers for those reading the thread, who played first who broke ?

 

Court Davis

Foster & Stevens on Jerri

Innersection

 

 

None of the above went "big" until many many years had passed, after being first played.

Edited by Kegsy
Link to comment
Social source share

BTW I often see the term first played or my other fave, unknown, and it always raises a smile because invariably the 'unknown' isn't (in some cases stone cold Stafford classic etc!) and the term first played is subjective because if you ask around, excluding the likes of Butch Ady with one-offs etc, someone somewhere usually has spun said disc at local venues. It a strange old world we rummage in  :lol:

Link to comment
Social source share

Here's a couple teasers for those reading the thread, who played first who broke ?

 

Court Davis

Foster & Stevens on Jerri

Innersection

 

 

None of the above went "big" until many many years had passed, after being first played.

Always thought court davies was a searling/casino spin....but then again I know bugger all! .......Rob

Link to comment
Social source share

Here's a couple teasers for those reading the thread, who played first who broke ?

Court Davis

Foster & Stevens on Jerri

Innersection

None of the above went "big" until many many years had passed, after being first played.

Innersection originally a Mecca play I'd guess? Played at Clifton Hall/Cleethorpes - to little acclaim - after getting it in a soul pack from John Anderson. Big some time later though.

Link to comment
Social source share

Innersection originally a Mecca play I'd guess? Played at Clifton Hall/Cleethorpes - to little acclaim - after getting it in a soul pack from John Anderson. Big some time later though.

 

I'd have took a guess at CC at the Mecca.

 

Discoverer - brings out an unknown to 99.9%.Hands it to either a breaker,or plays it himself.

Breaker - plays a "sleeper" that's lain dormant all its life.Out there,but not played out.

Edited by KevH
Link to comment
Social source share

Innersection originally a Mecca play I'd guess? Played at Clifton Hall/Cleethorpes - to little acclaim - after getting it in a soul pack from John Anderson. Big some time later though.

 

Used to get lots of plays '78/'79 in Scarborough by Paul Temple.

Link to comment
Social source share


Every time someone makes a claim about a record there will be vociferous counter claims from others. There can be very little that hasn't been tried or championed by someone after all these years. But the fact is, certain people and certain venues can propel a record to a must have. Yet that same record could have been hammered by another person for years and never been noticed.

 

The main man of course is Butch. He can play almost anything and cause it's value to soar. But there are many other examples where people like Karl Heard have played records like Rudy Love and made them a must have for the Dj's.

 

Everyone knows that John Anderson has discovered more northern than anyone. He is the man, end of.

  • Helpful 3
Link to comment
Social source share

In two of those cases the first person to open the Soul Bowl "soul packs" they came in….. :yes: whoever that was and btw it's Stevens & Foster….

 

I think far too much credit is given to some of the big names on the scene who in a lot of cases just get their cheque books out (or sales boxes) when something has already been broken and proven to be a winner on the dancefloor having been tried at a more local level.……It's the "I must have a copy because I need it for DJing" syndrome. I don't mean all big names because some of them are collectors who find the records or get the first copies before they are fashionable. But it's a really complex question because records come from so many different sources. Incredibly few are truly "unknown" at this point, mostly they are known records that are neglected or very rare so haven't had the exposure. 

 

also Steve tastes have changed, and the flip side of a played out oldie can suddenly sound just right for today.

 

The fact is we all want to own what moves us, that's how it works. If I hear a record and it moves me to dance and think "wow thats fantastic" I'm not going to think " oh but someone else has played it so I better not buy a copy" Come on, there wouldn't have been a scene after a couple of years.

Link to comment
Social source share

Yes agree on tastes changing……I wasn't suggesting don't buy something that has been played by someone else you rascal, we all do that. But there are a number of big names on the scene who have NEVER broken a record of their own, or played anything "unknown" or "untried".  

 

Sorry mate was just ribbing ya, but I agree entirely about the copyists. It's all about taste at the end of the day, AND whether anyone will dance to it. 

  • Helpful 1
Link to comment
Social source share

Every time someone makes a claim about a record there will be vociferous counter claims from others. There can be very little that hasn't been tried or championed by someone after all these years. But the fact is, certain people and certain venues can propel a record to a must have. Yet that same record could have been hammered by another person for years and never been noticed.

 

The main man of course is Butch. He can play almost anything and cause it's value to soar. But there are many other examples where people like Karl Heard have played records like Rudy Love and made them a must have for the Dj's.

 

Everyone knows that John Anderson has discovered more northern than anyone. He is the man, end of.

Then the punters (or venue attendee) integrity comes into question Phil, only interested if "Big name" plays it, not interested if Bilbo Baggins plays it. Get your point, its a very valid one

Edited by kev cane
Link to comment
Social source share

And actually I think you will find in our world the Discoverer was often not the DJ, Pete Lawson been a very good example, and indeed Butch before he started DJing, and off course the daddy of them all John Anderson. In many ways in the 80’s they held far higher esteem than the DJ.

 

Agree 100% with this Jocko and what Steve G says above too. When I was doing the whole Stafford 6T's Mafia thing I was getting tapes through the door on a daily basis from collectors etc packed with sounds, many of which went on to become monsters so i feel that its the collectors that have always been the ones pushing the scene forward. 

On the subject of Steve G he's been a major influence on me over the years and his taste in soul is fantastic, only today I've added another slew of TOONS! to that never ending Wants list that he's put me on to via his radio shows, damm the Soulful Silver Fox that he is!!!!  :rofl: 

  • Helpful 3
Link to comment
Social source share







It’s at the very heart of what made the Northern scene great, and why most of the current Northern Scene is a Laurel and Hardyesque parody of a once great phenomenon.
(quote]

Brilliant Jock,
This has been on my lips for years, but I was never quite educated enough to roll it out in such a fashion.
Cheers
Edited by Lenny Harkins
  • Helpful 2
Link to comment
Social source share

I think I'm right in saying World of Happiness was first played/discovered by Andy Rix (it was certainly him I heard play it first) subsequently I heard an alternate take that Butch played/broke so who would get the credit in that case? Apologies if I've got this wrong, I don't generally pay much attention during 'record talk' :)

 

Other way round Win, Butch first as well as Jesse James "it's Alright".  Butch covered his take of WOH as The Sherry's. 

Edited by chalky
  • Helpful 2
Link to comment
Social source share

I wonder how many 'first played by' claims are actually true. Likewise, 'first played at'... Surely credit should go to the crate diggers, trackers and travellers who did the hard work, but the goods don't come with guarantees and deeds of provenance. So these claims, though often aired, are just opinion or hearsay, like the statement 'only X known copies', a soul scene cliche of little significance.

  • Helpful 1
Link to comment
Social source share

 

As for who found the records 1st is hard to say, Ian is the main one, the lads who went to the BIRDS NEST made many discoveries, in particular Dave Rivers, Mick Smith Clive Everat (big Clive) and of course I must mention Ian Clark, Pete Wid,, and all the original 6ts soul boys who joined Ady C after the big venues closed,

DAVE K  

 

A man after my own heart, what ever happened to Clive ?.

I still see Rivers and Mick and a few other old London lads but Clive was

always the one you would remember from those days.

  • Helpful 1
Link to comment
Social source share

A man after my own heart, what ever happened to Clive ?.

I still see Rivers and Mick and a few other old London lads but Clive was

always the one you would remember from those days.

:hatsoff2: HI ALL....."BIG CLIVE" was the dogs! talked & looked like the 3rd member of the ROCKNEY DUO Chaz & Dave, but then again he reminded of my uncles John & George who were both in the FIRM, Working SOHO talking in a whisper through the side of mouth, yes I think RONNIE & REGIE would of approved of "big CLIVE".

As far as I'm aware he is still in regular contact with MICK & BILLY MAC (TORCH GO'ER & DJ), In 72 we all DJ at the DIVE in HITCHIN,

SOUL FACT, CLIVE bought back from the states FRANKIE BEVERLEY, I think he sold it to TONY JEBB,

MICK is in wolves this SATURDAY, at the RECORD FAIR, I will get the latest update on the man "Big Clive Everett. :ohmy: DAVE K

Link to comment
Social source share

As far as I know Innersection was played as a new release from the States at the Mecca in the '76/77 years.

I wrote to the label / World Wide Sound Distributors Incorporated and a bloke called Jack Fishback sent me a couple of copies with some Country and Western record by Goolsby & Plante and Serena Johnson "All Work And No Play" which Colin Curtis bought for a fiver.

The same week Oscar Perry sent me "Mainstring"....which Colin also got from me.

  • Helpful 1
Link to comment
Social source share

As far as I know Innersection was played as a new release from the States at the Mecca in the '76/77 years.

I wrote to the label / World Wide Sound Distributors Incorporated and a bloke called Jack Fishback sent me a couple of copies with some Country and Western record by Goolsby & Plante and Serena Johnson "All Work And No Play" which Colin Curtis bought for a fiver.

The same week Oscar Perry sent me "Mainstring"....which Colin also got from me.

 

aaaah.!! Great memories.Mainstring,love it. :thumbsup:   

  • Helpful 1
Link to comment
Social source share

I've always been very interested in who discovered records (also credit where credit's due) Then after that (and they are two very different things) who broke the records, as in who managed to 'sell' them to the dance floor, because that bit can take some doing. Again, credit where credit's due for doing so.

 

Nothing sinister or political in this, I just find it interesting.

 

All the best,

 

Len :thumbsup: 

  • Helpful 1
Link to comment
Social source share


Btw, my first 'taste' of such a thing was when I read the back of the Destiny L.P 'The Record Collector', where it stated things like 'Arin Demain - Silent Treatment' - First played by Soul Sam at......etc. At the time I don't think I knew who Soul Sam was (or any of the D.J's mentioned) but I remember it absolutely intrigued me, so I guess that is where my interest stemmed from.

 

All the best,

 

Len :thumbsup: 

Edited by LEN
Link to comment
Social source share

Other way round Win, Butch first as well as Jesse James "it's Alright".  Butch covered his take of WOH as The Sherry's. 

 

Mark had this first ... years before I got it ... but it's easy to get confused as his was the 'demo' version that he christened 'The Sherry's' and the one I got off Eddie Holman was the 'finished' version by Shirley Turner ... same song, different singers and different arrangements .... I sent Shirley a rough recording of the Sherrys version and she confirmed that this was what she was given to learn the song.

 

So Winnie you might had heard me play it first but all credit goes to Mark as he inspired me to go and find it

 

Does anybody recall a small piece in Black Echoes in the late 70s saying the vocal version of 'Bird Walkin' had been found in a bin ... always intrigued me .. who found it and what happened to it

 ... one would assume this was the copy Marc ended up with but I would not like to jump to that conclusion

 

Andy

  • Helpful 2
Link to comment
Social source share

Mark had this first ... years before I got it ... but it's easy to get confused as his was the 'demo' version that he christened 'The Sherry's' and the one I got off Eddie Holman was the 'finished' version by Shirley Turner ... same song, different singers and different arrangements .... I sent Shirley a rough recording of the Sherrys version and she confirmed that this was what she was given to learn the song.

 

So Winnie you might had heard me play it first but all credit goes to Mark as he inspired me to go and find it

 

Does anybody recall a small piece in Black Echoes in the late 70s saying the vocal version of 'Bird Walkin' had been found in a bin ... always intrigued me .. who found it and what happened to it

 ... one would assume this was the copy Marc ended up with but I would not like to jump to that conclusion

 

Andy

Maybe it was Mark/Marc who found it?He has always been ahead of the game!

Edited by sir cumference
Link to comment
Social source share

Get involved with Soul Source

Add your comments now

Join Soul Source

A free & easy soul music affair!

Join Soul Source now!

Log in to Soul Source

Jump right back in!

Log in now!


×
×
  • Create New...