Getting Ridiculous And Far From Outta Sight

[Northern Soul Uk]

I have just been browsing eBay and the first 3 pages of of 50 items, I would estimate at being 90%
of 'Outta Sight' re-releases.
How have they managed to secure so many copyrights of records? is it a 'Block' copyright licence?
It doesn't bother me seeing a couple here and there, but nearly 3 pages full of re-release after re-release
is getting a bit too much.

[Pete S]

They're good though - great design, perfect sound quality and some good unissued tracks too.

[Brav]

I have just been browsing eBay and the first 3 pages of of 50 items, I would estimate at being 90%

of 'Outta Sight' re-releases.

How have they managed to secure so many copyrights of records? is it a 'Block' copyright licence?

It doesn't bother me seeing a couple here and there, but nearly 3 pages full of re-release after re-release

is getting a bit too much.

And the other 10% are Boots

[Northern Soul Uk]

They're good though - great design, perfect sound quality and some good unissued tracks too.

I'm not disputing that fact Pete at all, although I haven't actually bought any I have heard the same about the quality.

It's more about the amount that are going on there.

What bugs me the most to be honest is that whoever is designing the labels, are making them VERY close to the original

ones with the exception of the trade mark star. Some times you have to look very carefully to spot that, as it seems to be getting smaller

and hidden amongst other text or branding. I know business is business being a business man myself, so i do get it.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Northern Soul UK

[Pete S]

I don't think there's any mystery about the people who are behind the label.

[Mark Bicknell]

Got myself a set and I'm back out DJ'ing lol

[John Reed]

What bugs me the most to be honest is that whoever is designing the labels, are making them VERY close to the original

ones with the exception of the trade mark star. Some times you have to look very carefully to spot that, as it seems to be getting smaller

and hidden amongst other text or branding. I know business is business being a business man myself, so i do get it.

 

I haven't got any myself, but from a design perspective I think its a very clever marketing ploy.  They look like originals, but due to the star on the label (however small), you know they're not.  I think its a lot more honest than some of the recent re-presses where you have to look even more carefully for differences, such as matrix numbers in the wax, which could leave someone duped irrespective of their knowledge or experience.

Edited May 2, 2014 by John Reed

[Amsterdam Russ]

Serious question, are they all legitimate, ie, properly licensed, releases?

[jocko]

 

Serious question, are they all legitimate, ie, properly licensed, releases?

 

I asked this before and was met with stoney silence. Surely someone must know. Isnt there someone involved on here or did I misunterstand that previously.

[Pete S]

 

 

I asked this before and was met with stoney silence. Surely someone must know. Isnt there someone involved on here or did I misunterstand that previously.

 

Neil Rushton distributes them but don't think he runs the label, I thought it was run by Glen from JoeBoy and Les McCutcheon?  Apologies if this information is incorrect.

[Pete S]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outta_Sight_Records

[jocko]

 

Neil Rushton distributes them but don't think he runs the label, I thought it was run by Glen from JoeBoy and Les McCutcheon?  Apologies if this information is incorrect.

 

If anyone is going to be able to licence stuff like that correctly its Neil, and looking at your Wiki link they are digging into a label that has had already had some good CD releases. Interesting operating model, but it must pay its way.

[Sebastian]

It doesn't bother me seeing a couple here and there, but nearly 3 pages full of re-release after re-release

is getting a bit too much.

 

Seeing as most of these reissues are being sold with the "buy it now" option on eBay, click the "Auction" option at the top of the screen instead of "All listings".

 

Quite amazing that 15.000 items in the "northern soul" category on eBay UK are "buy it now" and only about 5000 items are for auction.

 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Northern-Soul-/27349/i.html

vs.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Northern-Soul-/27349/i.html?rt=nc&LH_Auction=1

Edited May 2, 2014 by Sebastian

[Liamgp]

I've seen kids - well people under 40 - buying these things in shops that sell primarily modern dance records so I would say it's an excellent intro to the music for people that aren't actually into the scene (and who knows they might be one day). However it is a tad annoying that something you have searched for, coughed up a fair amount for and is fairly exclusive to you as a collector and/or DJ is in the hands of the great unwashed! Mind you I'm sure that was the feeling that some people had in the early 80s when I and my mates were buying boots, compilation LPs and legal reissues and playing them out too, although to be fair we did run our own events and were therefore usually skint. 

[Northern Soul Uk]

All points above agreed with i.e, Lookalikes but distinguishable by the stars, Good marketing model etc.But would still like to know how they got to licence so many releases? I know that at one time you could buy a Block licence that gave you permission to copy releases but not sure if you can now. I also know that royalties stay with the artist or kin for 50 years after their death which would make a few releases free from copyright unless they have been bought by another organisations.
Has anyone got a link to the full catalogue? I would mind seeing what the extent of their releases are.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Northern Soul UK

[Guest Matt Male]

All points above agreed with i.e, Lookalikes but distinguishable by the stars, Good marketing model etc.But would still like to know how they got to licence so many releases? I know that at one time you could buy a Block licence that gave you permission to copy releases but not sure if you can now. I also know that royalties stay with the artist or kin for 50 years after their death which would make a few releases free from copyright unless they have been bought by another organisations.

Has anyone got a link to the full catalogue? I would mind seeing what the extent of their releases are.

 

 

They seem to sell through their Facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/outta.sight.ltd

[Pete S]

All points above agreed with i.e, Lookalikes but distinguishable by the stars, Good marketing model etc.But would still like to know how they got to licence so many releases? I know that at one time you could buy a Block licence that gave you permission to copy releases but not sure if you can now. I also know that royalties stay with the artist or kin for 50 years after their death which would make a few releases free from copyright unless they have been bought by another organisations.

Has anyone got a link to the full catalogue? I would mind seeing what the extent of their releases are.

 

There's very little that they've released that hasn't already been out on a cd via Kent, Universal, all the other cd people - these things are not so obscure that they can't be licensed for a short period.

[Mace]

There's very little that they've released that hasn't already been out on a cd via Kent, Universal, all the other cd people - these things are not so obscure that they can't be licensed for a short period.

Not so sure if this is true with some of the R&B stuff that they have reissued.

[Guest Polyvelts]

I've seen kids - well people under 40 - buying these things in shops that sell primarily modern dance records so I would say it's an excellent intro to the music for people that aren't actually into the scene (and who knows they might be one day). However it is a tad annoying that something you have searched for, coughed up a fair amount for and is fairly exclusive to you as a collector and/or DJ is in the hands of the great unwashed! Mind you I'm sure that was the feeling that some people had in the early 80s when I and my mates were buying boots, compilation LPs and legal reissues and playing them out too, although to be fair we did run our own events and were therefore usually skint. 

 

It's made my day tho that I'm only 12 years short of still being considered a 'kid' ,,

[NEV]

As pretty as they are, as nice as they sound... So what?

At the end of the day, nothing to get excited about really

[Markw]

Got myself a set and I'm back out DJ'ing lol

See some events now advertising "strictly vinyl only" rather than OVO   ................

[Pete S]

Not so sure if this is true with some of the R&B stuff that they have reissued.

 

Not seen many of these but Benny Spellman, BIg daddy Rogers, Barbara Dane, all previously released.

If you have a look at some of their cd releases (Outtasites) they've released stacks of late 50's and early 60's r & b (Birth of Northern, Dawn of Northern, early Detroit etc)

[Guest Matt Male]

See some events now advertising "strictly vinyl only" rather than OVO   ................

 

 

Easy to fill a play box with them I expect and do a spot, but like Nev says, what's the point? If it's sound quality you're after, you don't have the original, and you'd rather not play a boot, you may as well stick a CD on.

 

Why spend £150 on 20 Outta sight 45s when a CD will cost £20?

Edited May 3, 2014 by Matt Male

[Shsdave]

See some events now advertising "strictly vinyl only" rather than OVO   ................

 

Some ? I would say loads Mark, really pisses me off how they proudly claim, "all played off vinyl" if it ain't original you may as well play it off a firkin laptop !

[Soul16]

I understand that the original sound recording requires licensing, but does the reproduction of label designs, artwork and logos require a separate license?

The Benny Troy record is unusual though, in that the label is Outta Sight, but it uses the De-Lite design.

I have always believed that bootleg copy's of records don't affect values of originals, but given the sound quality and appearance of Outta Sight releases, these apparently legal reissues may have some effect. 

And no, they aren't anything to get excited about, they will never be of any value, either historically or monetarily - except to Outta Sight themselves of course.

[Pete S]

Easy to fill a play box with them I expect and do a spot, but like Nev says, what's the point? If it's sound quality you're after, you don't have the original, and you'd rather not play a boot, you may as well stick a CD on.

 

Why spend £150 on 20 Outta sight 45s when a CD will cost £20?

 

Oh no not again.  Reasons for buying records rather than cd's or mp'3 part 867.

[Pete S]

I understand that the original sound recording requires licensing, but does the reproduction of label designs, artwork and logos require a separate license?

The Benny Troy record is unusual though, in that the label is Outta Sight, but it uses the De-Lite design.

I have always believed that bootleg copy's of records don't affect values of originals, but given the sound quality and appearance of Outta Sight releases, these apparently legal reissues may have some effect. 

And no, they aren't anything to get excited about, they will never be of any value, either historically or monetarily - except to Outta Sight themselves of course.

 

Some of them are already deleted though.

In 5 years time certain titles will be extremely collectable.

Who would have ever thought that any single on Grapevine would be worth anything 35 years ago?

[Soul16]

Some of them are already deleted though.

In 5 years time certain titles will be extremely collectable.

Who would have ever thought that any single on Grapevine would be worth anything 35 years ago?

I have most of the Grapevine singles, all bought at the time of release. I must admit that I never considered for one minute that some of them would achieve any kind of value in the future. So, yes, you have a point there.

If I remember correctly, 1980 was the big year for Grapevine releases, I was 17 years old then and they were the nearest I could get to owning an original, at 85p each, they were affordable and credible (to me, at least). Maybe the Outta Sight releases are the modern equivalent.

Now in my 50's, mortgage paid and with more disposable income, I guess that I am lucky that I'm now in a position to dismiss some new reissues in favour of chasing original vinyl.

[Guest Matt Male]

Oh no not again.  Reasons for buying records rather than cd's or mp'3 part 867.

 

...and it didn't make any sense last time you tried to explain why anyone would buy a piece of plastic that wasn't an original 45 to play at home rather than a CD or MP3.

 

 

I accept your point about collecting a label like Grapevine, or Black Magic, but buying to play at home just because it's vinyl doesn't make sense to me. Sorry.

Edited May 3, 2014 by Matt Male

[Ian Dewhirst]

Serious question, are they all legitimate, ie, properly licensed, releases?

 

Yes.

 

Ian D

[Pete S]

...and it didn't make any sense last time you tried to explain why anyone would buy a piece of plastic that wasn't an original 45 to play at home rather than a CD or MP3.

 

 

I accept your point about collecting a label like Grapevine, or Black Magic, but buying to play at home just because it's vinyl doesn't make sense to me. Sorry.

 

Well if you don't get it, you don't get it Matt - I love vinyl, what else can I say?

[maslar]

Some of them are already deleted though.

In 5 years time certain titles will be extremely collectable.

Who would have ever thought that any single on Grapevine would be worth anything 35 years ago?

 

I've got to admit I  know very little about OS. I haven't really given them much attention. Which are the more interesting ones eg previously unreleased, or in any way more collectible than the rest?

Edited May 3, 2014 by maslar

[Pete S]

I've got to admit I  know very little about OS. I haven't really given them much attention. Which are the more interesting ones eg previously unreleased, or in any way more collectible than the rest?

 

They've made some really good, sensible double siders and put out a few unissued things, sorry not got list to hand at the moment but there was a different vocal to "Wanted in 3 states" (different song I mean)

[Sebastian]

 

If you have a look at some of their cd releases (Outtasites) they've released stacks of late 50's and early 60's r & b (Birth of Northern, Dawn of Northern, early Detroit etc)

 

It's a kind of "free for all" when it comes to most US recordings copyrighted before 1964. If the copyright for those recordings were not renewed during their 28th year, they're in the public domain and can be released/reproduced by anyone as far as I understand it. That's why you see the massive amount of CDs/45's etc. being released at the moment featuring that kind of material.

 

According to Wikipedia:

 

All copyrightable works published in the United States before 1923 are in the public domain; [...] For works that received their copyright before 1978, a renewal had to be filed in the work's 28th year with the Library of Congress Copyright Office for its term of protection to be extended. The need for renewal was eliminated by the Copyright Renewal Act of 1992, but works that had already entered the public domain by non-renewal did not regain copyright protection. Therefore, works published before 1964 that were not renewed are in the public domain.

More info here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_United_States#Duration_of_copyright

The above only applies to recordings published in the US, the copyright laws for recordings published in the UK or EU are for example a lot different.

 

Edited May 4, 2014 by Sebastian

[Northern Soul Uk]

Excellent answers and very enlightening. So it seems that anyone and his dog could release a US record recorded pre 1964 that renewal of copyright wasn't applied? So is it OK to release it on your own label then? and should you find such a record, would you have to apply to release it or just go ahead and do it?