Boot V's Original Tamala Lewis You Wont Say Nothing Marton

[whereismy record]

Hi can someone tell me how you tell the difference between the boot and a real one of TAMALA LEWIS YOU WONT SAY NOTHING MARTON

 

Thanks in advance

 

D

Edited April 22, 2014 by whereismy record

[Robbk]

All the boots I know of were the wrong colour.  The most common is the orange label.  the original was a navy blue.  I think there was also a blue boot that was too light (more like powder blue?).

[Robbk]

Here's the orange boot:

 

[Robbk]

Here's the original:

[Mellorful]

Looking at my copy of 'the record collector' it reminds me that in 1979 the Destiny label issued a legitimate UK release; therefore, that is a first UK issue of the track.

KTF

[dthedrug]

 Hi All ...I may be wrong but I'm sure Ady C had the BLUE copy but thought it was a boot? apparently it was the name TAMALA sounded made up? however it wasn't

I have never had a chance to own the BLUE copy but the orange copy stays in the same box as my original's, a very hard 45 to get the inferno copy means little to me  DAVE K

[TOAD]

I have a white one asked about it before

[Robbk]

I have a white one asked about it before

Wasn't the white one also a boot?  I don't remember ever seeing ANY white DJs on The Marton label.

[Mal C]

whats the story behind the orange boot? bar the colour its spot on pretty much...

 

Mal

[Chatty]

Bought the Orange boot from "Russ's pressings hut" back in the day.

[Guest turntableterra]

whats the story behind the orange boot? bar the colour its spot on pretty much...

 

Mal

the stamp in the runout groove is pretty unique,  and none like I have seen before, but I also don't have another record on marton so I cant compare

[Robbk]

My orange boot of Marton 1002 has only M -1002-A and M - 1002 B etched onto the trailer.  It has no stamp.  I'm not with my 45s now, but, if I'm not mistaken the Roy Handy and Tamala Lewis Marton 45s both have, in addition to the record catalogue number etched in to the runout M-1001-A, M-1001B, M-1002-A. M-1002-B, - they also have the cut numbers A-109-N, A-110-N, A-111-N and A-112-N etched into the runout.  There are no stamps on my Marton records, as far as I remember.

[Andreas B]

I had a weird carver-esque thing of it I bought early on in my collecting that had a poorly done inkjet printed blue label, I believe I sold it on to someone here on S-S. 

[stokesoulboy]

I too have the orange one , and it is perfect in type face apart from the colour , is this possible to replicate back then ? I'd say it's some sort of reissue due to the sound quality too , if you look at other boots ie duke browner dena barnes etc they all have flaws label and or sound quality but this is not the case here ? Thoughts ??

[Robbk]

I too have the orange one , and it is perfect in type face apart from the colour , is this possible to replicate back then ? I'd say it's some sort of reissue due to the sound quality too , if you look at other boots ie duke browner dena barnes etc they all have flaws label and or sound quality but this is not the case here ? Thoughts ??

So, you think it's a legit re-issue by the owner of Marton, made for the NS scene?  Probably requested by a British dealer on a trip to New York, when he found the original and contacted the owner. 

 

Clearly, the new label didn't come from a photocopy of an original 45.  It may have come from the original artwork.

[stokesoulboy]

Yep, I'd say it was , the label is too good , also being pressed later indicates the missing stamp while retaining the matrix number - possibly new masters cut from a direct tape source - whoever was behind it made a pretty fine job and being a completely different coloured label it was not made to deceive ? Interesting debate this one

[Prophonics 2029]

Out of interest would this be an LA thing, by the shape of the disc it looks like a few monarch's I have.

[Robbk]

Out of interest would this be an LA thing, by the shape of the disc it looks like a few monarch's I have.

No.  It's from New York, where Clinton was from.  Neither the original blue nor the re-pressing orange have the Monarch Delta, nor were they pressed on styrene (as most Monarch pressings were.  That label design and font were both used by a couple New York pressing plants during 1962-65.  Marton was owned by a New York financier, and located in New York.  Not only Clinton and his Parliaments, but also Roy Handy, Tamala Lewis and The Parlettes (Par-Lets) and The Pets were all from The Greater NY Metro Area.

[stokesoulboy]

Ridge dip towards the centre label indicates a ny press on the orange - I almost bought a blue original with a crack split right across one side for £700 - I didn't buy it !! Still a great sound from mr p funks one time girlfriend

[TOAD]

So no wd dj ?

[stokesoulboy]

I have never seen one

[Guest turntableterra]

anyone else who has a blue original will confirm a stamp not dissimilar to the old blood donor shield stamped on both sides .........

[Prophonics 2029]

Robbk some of my monarch's, early ones are more vynil than a styrene like the Sweets.

[Guest turntableterra]

My orange boot of Marton 1002 has only M -1002-A and M - 1002 B etched onto the trailer.  It has no stamp.  I'm not with my 45s now, but, if I'm not mistaken the Roy Handy and Tamala Lewis Marton 45s both have, in addition to the record catalogue number etched in to the runout M-1001-A, M-1001B, M-1002-A. M-1002-B, - they also have the cut numbers A-109-N, A-110-N, A-111-N and A-112-N etched into the runout.  There are no stamps on my Marton records, as far as I remember.

check your blue if you have one, never owned an orange. it also has L W etched in similarly the melody disc, grier bros, and no cut numbers

[Rich B]

Ridge dip towards the centre label indicates a ny press on the orange - I almost bought a blue original with a crack split right across one side for £700 - I didn't buy it !! Still a great sound from mr p funks one time girlfriend

 

So what is a real one going to cost these days then?

[Mustang]

So, you think it's a legit re-issue by the owner of Marton, made for the NS scene?  Probably requested by a British dealer on a trip to New York, when he found the original and contacted the owner. 

 

Clearly, the new label didn't come from a photocopy of an original 45.  It may have come from the original artwork.

My understanding of the Orange label record is that it is an Original Marton 2nd press issue confirmed by a

reputable Northern Soul DJ,it is not a boot as suggested,i own an Orange one and I am

more than happy with it,they too are becoming rarer and their value is starting to gradually

rise over time.

 

I had an argument with a DJ who would not play it at a venue,he said it was a boot,i said to

him that it wasn't it was a Marton 2nd press original,the DJ that confirmed it's status was

at the venue and gave his input,the record still wasn't played,utter nonsense,the dancers

missed out yet again!!!.

 

There are many unissued great dancer records that are never played at venues because

of the Original v Boot snobbery.This happens because there are only so many Acetetates

and boots have to be made to provide copies to dance to otherwise they are never played.

Examples of this are:    Gladys Knight and the pips --- If You Ever Get Your Hands On Love,

Eddie Holman --- Where I'm Not Wanted,both excellent dancers.

 

Obviously there is no doubt about the Original Blue record and i reckon that anyone who has one

could ask around £2000 for it in good condition.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Soul Flyer

[Patto]

The Orange one was done in the late 70s 1977 i think which is 12 years after the original blue copy.So how can it be classed as an original 2nd press.Surely a 2nd press or run can only be acceptable if done at more or less the same time as the first issue. Regardless of whether or not the orange one is legit it surely cant be played as an original at any venue because its a 12 years later reissue.Or am i missing summat here

[Dave Pinch]

My understanding of the Orange label record is that it is an Original Marton 2nd press issue confirmed by a

reputable Northern Soul DJ,it is not a boot as suggested,i own an Orange one and I am

more than happy with it,they too are becoming rarer and their value is starting to gradually

rise over time.

 

I had an argument with a DJ who would not play it at a venue,he said it was a boot,i said to

him that it wasn't it was a Marton 2nd press original,the DJ that confirmed it's status was

at the venue and gave his input,the record still wasn't played,utter nonsense,the dancers

missed out yet again!!!.

 

There are many unissued great dancer records that are never played at venues because

of the Original v Boot snobbery.This happens because there are only so many Acetetates

and boots have to be made to provide copies to dance to otherwise they are never played.

Examples of this are:    Gladys Knight and the pips --- If You Ever Get Your Hands On Love,

Eddie Holman --- Where I'm Not Wanted,both excellent dancers.

 

Obviously there is no doubt about the Original Blue record and i reckon that anyone who has one

could ask around £2000 for it in good condition.

Still done for the northern soul scene no matter how you look at it

[Chalky]

Everyone I know says the orange one is a boot.  If it is a legitimate reissue where is the evidence, who did them etc?  I usually hear the legitimate argument when trying to justify the playing of one.  Boot as far as I am concerned.

[Rich B]

Later than '77 I would have thought too - '79? Blue is the only one for me.

[Pete S]

Later than '77 I would have thought too - '79? Blue is the only one for me.

Was a 78 reissue I think (boot, whatever).  Never went that massive really, got played a lot but didn't have a huge following.  Never been a fan myself...it's alright.

[Rich B]

Was a 78 reissue I think (boot, whatever).  Never went that massive really, got played a lot but didn't have a huge following.  Never been a fan myself...it's alright.

 

Thanks Pete - my 'oldtimers' kicking in again!

[Pete S]

Thanks Pete - my 'oldtimers' kicking in again!

 

Yes cos when you think about it, it was issued on Destiny on 79 and was still being played so I'd guess the boot is late 78.  I don't think it's on any of my Wigan tapes at all, I stopped taping August 78.

[Rich B]

Yes cos when you think about it, it was issued on Destiny on 79 and was still being played so I'd guess the boot is late 78.  I don't think it's on any of my Wigan tapes at all, I stopped taping August 78.

 

I can vaguely remember Jonathan playing it around late '78 and eventually (not quite sure of the year) bought one because my wife said she liked it - £44 from Rob Smith. Seemed expensive at the time!

[Arthur Fenn]

Later than '77 I would have thought too - '79? Blue is the only one for me.

Orange 100% boot in my book,  not worth discussion on its merits, however I'd love to know more about Tamala, love her voice, any info on the girl?

[Arthur Fenn]

Also recollect it as a searling c/u from soul bowl then AdyC finding a handful 1 of which Sam got, £40ish I believe & most definitely blue ( the label not Sam ) 

[solidhit]

Orange 100% boot in my book,  not worth discussion on its merits, however I'd love to know more about Tamala, love her voice, any info on the girl?

Spoke with Ray Davis (Del Larks/Parliaments) about her many years ago.   All he could remember about her was that she was a girlfriend of George Clinton's.  He also said it's the Parliaments who sing harmonies on the record, and although he said he hadn't sung the song since the day it was recorded, he was able to sing the words to it over the phone for me. 

[Tony Smith]

My understanding of the Orange label record is that it is an Original Marton 2nd press issue confirmed by a

reputable Northern Soul DJ,it is not a boot as suggested,i own an Orange one and I am

more than happy with it,they too are becoming rarer and their value is starting to gradually

rise over time.

 

I had an argument with a DJ who would not play it at a venue,he said it was a boot,i said to

him that it wasn't it was a Marton 2nd press original,the DJ that confirmed it's status was

at the venue and gave his input,the record still wasn't played,utter nonsense,the dancers

missed out yet again!!!.

 

There are many unissued great dancer records that are never played at venues because

of the Original v Boot snobbery.This happens because there are only so many Acetetates

and boots have to be made to provide copies to dance to otherwise they are never played.

Examples of this are:    Gladys Knight and the pips --- If You Ever Get Your Hands On Love,

Eddie Holman --- Where I'm Not Wanted,both excellent dancers.

 

Obviously there is no doubt about the Original Blue record and i reckon that anyone who has one

could ask around £2000 for it in good condition.

I don't know where you get your information from but, the orange copy is a bootleg end-of!

[Tony Smith]

Also recollect it as a searling c/u from soul bowl then AdyC finding a handful 1 of which Sam got, £40ish I believe & most definitely blue ( the label not Sam ) 

Sharon Scott c/u, Arthur, hope you're well mate?

Edited April 26, 2014 by Tony Smith

[Mustang]

I don't know where you get your information from but, the orange copy is a bootleg end-of!

A bootleg is a copy made by anyone or any company

The orange label is RCA,re-released in 1979 in conjunction

with Marton (the label owners).There is nothing bootleg

about the re-release,Marton were involved,so in my eyes

that makes it genuine and a second press,it does not matter

about the year,the fact that Marton were involved makes

a massive difference.

So once again you CANNOT call it a bootleg.

Right,over to you,prove me wrong then.

[Premium Stuff]

A bootleg is a copy made by anyone or any company

The orange label is RCA,re-released in 1979 in conjunction

with Marton (the label owners).There is nothing bootleg

about the re-release,Marton were involved,so in my eyes

that makes it genuine and a second press,it does not matter

about the year,the fact that Marton were involved makes

a massive difference.

So once again you CANNOT call it a bootleg.

Right,over to you,prove me wrong then.

 

The general view is that the orange one is bootleg.

 

Can you prove what you are saying about it being an official release with Marton involvement please? That would help.

 

Cheers

 

Richard

Edited April 25, 2014 by Premium Stuff

[Chalky]

A bootleg is a copy made by anyone or any company

The orange label is RCA,re-released in 1979 in conjunction

with Marton (the label owners).There is nothing bootleg

about the re-release,Marton were involved,so in my eyes

that makes it genuine and a second press,it does not matter

about the year,the fact that Marton were involved makes

a massive difference.

So once again you CANNOT call it a bootleg.

Right,over to you,prove me wrong then.

 

 

You've offered no proof that it is legitimate? How about something to substantiate your claim?    I still call it a bootleg but if you want to believe otherwise then that is your perogative, still a boot to everyone else.  

[Mustang]

The general view is that the orange one is bootleg. Can you prove what you are saying about it being an official release with Marton involvement please? That would help. Cheers Richard

I will certainly try Richard,might take a bit of time

though,work etc:,BFN.

[Tony Smith]

A bootleg is a copy made by anyone or any company

The orange label is RCA,re-released in 1979 in conjunction

with Marton (the label owners).There is nothing bootleg

about the re-release,Marton were involved,so in my eyes

that makes it genuine and a second press,it does not matter

about the year,the fact that Marton were involved makes

a massive difference.

So once again you CANNOT call it a bootleg.

Right,over to you,prove me wrong then.

Where is the proof RCA were involved with this "re-release", you're talking out of your a**e :-)

[Tony Smith]

So, you think it's a legit re-issue by the owner of Marton, made for the NS scene?  Probably requested by a British dealer on a trip to New York, when he found the original and contacted the owner. 

 

Clearly, the new label didn't come from a photocopy of an original 45.  It may have come from the original artwork.

Robb,

 

The label would be easy to copy, even back then, photograph on a gallery camera, reverse the negative and you're there!

[Robbk]

Robb,

 

The label would be easy to copy, even back then, photograph on a gallery camera, reverse the negative and you're there!

Then why were there so very many boots made from photos that had thin and broken lines that clearly identified them as having been photographed from an original 45?  Most bootleggers didn't want to buy a gallery camera?

[Robbk]

A bootleg is a copy made by anyone or any company

The orange label is RCA,re-released in 1979 in conjunction

with Marton (the label owners).There is nothing bootleg

about the re-release,Marton were involved,so in my eyes

that makes it genuine and a second press,it does not matter

about the year,the fact that Marton were involved makes

a massive difference.

So once again you CANNOT call it a bootleg.

Right,over to you,prove me wrong then.

I agree with you that Marton being involved makes the orange release a 2nd legitimate release.  But wouldn't a reissue 12 years later be treated the same as a 5 year + oldies re-issue like an "Oldies 45" would have been to a VJ issue, or a different label (Red or Yellow) RCA, instead of the original black, or a gold Chess Oldies series with same catalog number as the older, original Blue Chess.  NS DJs don't play oldies re-issues, do they (or several years later re-issues, do they?

[Mal C]

Just listening to my 'Bootleg' or not... notice two things about the recording, it comes in staggered at the start, you know when you can hear the track faintly for a second,  then loud... Then at the end it just stops, no fade, sounds like the sound is just switched off.

 

Overall its it's a great 45, the label and overall sound quality, especially compared to some boots, but those two things suggest to me it wasn't RCA that produced this disc, they didn't make 45 to a lesser quality did they....the finest quality recordings is what they were about...

 

just a theory 

 

mal 

Edited April 26, 2014 by Mal C

[Tony Smith]

Then why were there so very many boots made from photos that had thin and broken lines that clearly identified them as having been photographed from an original 45?  Most bootleggers didn't want to buy a gallery camera?

Obviously they didn't want to buy a galley camera, but plenty of people have friends who are printers (I am one) who would do a favour for a drink, just saying that the quality of label reproduction in this case is not an indication of legitimacy.

[Wiganer1]

Yes cos when you think about it, it was issued on Destiny on 79 and was still being played so I'd guess the boot is late 78.  I don't think it's on any of my Wigan tapes at all, I stopped taping August 78.

richard played it at the 5th anniversary covered as sharon scott for the frist time (he said) at wigan