Djing

[TOAD]

Multiple versions of reggae records are not boring to listen too. But this thread is boring!!!

[Labeat]

He's a famous Spanish house dj, Gordon Zola.

 

ROD

 

Not an ex Chelsea striker then?

[Pete S]

Multiple versions of reggae records are not boring to listen too. But this thread is boring!!!

 

Tim I think some of my listeners might disagree when I put last night's podcast up - it was a normal, mixed ska-rocksteady-reggae mix for 90 minutes then for some reason I had a "Conversation Orgy" and played seven different versions of Conversation 

[Guest Byrney]

If I'm reading you right Rob ( and as others I'm not entirely sure I am), coming from someone who can mix, to an extent perform basic scratching (although I fail at crabbing etc) and can get up to a few tricks such as phasing and backbeating I think what you are suggesting is form over content.

The disco mixes you outlined earlier with long intro / outros are perfect for beat mixing ( although more of a challenge than house etc which is digi synced).

Northern soul typically has short intros so would it not just be a matter of straight cutting in using the cross fader. Also intros on many soul records are key to the musical journey the record takes us on... Lets say I was to scratch the intro of Harold Melvin's Get Out. Yeah it would be entertaining for me but would take away from the feel and journey of the overall record and P off the audience. Therefore pointless.

If I go to see say Terrance Parker (which is on my bucket list) or Claud Young I expect to hear faultless beat mixing, scratching and a few tricks thrown in as the music they play is made for that. Northern isn't so why bother.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Byrney

[Sutty]

^^^ what he said.

 

Rob, out of interest, what events are you talking about exactly? I go to modern soul events. People mix very well at many of them when it's the right material. They don't at northern/70's events as it doesn't work, as Byrney is saying

 

cheers Sutty

Edited April 24, 2014 by Sutty

[TOAD]

Tim I think some of my listeners might disagree when I put last night's podcast up - it was a normal, mixed ska-rocksteady-reggae mix for 90 minutes then for some reason I had a "Conversation Orgy" and played seven different versions of Conversation

i have at least 14 versions of no no no dawn Penn each one different high lighting different instruments i find it very creative :)conversation is a brilliant rhythm track i could play that in a loop forever

[Pete S]

i have at least 14 versions of no no no dawn Penn each one different high lighting different instruments i find it very creative :)conversation is a brilliant rhythm track i could play that in a loop forever

 

That's what I thought but it started to grate a bit, I used:

Shorty - Yama way

Joe White - President rock

Tommy McCook - The new president (aka halfway tree pressure)

Shorty - President mash up the resident

The straight instrumental version

Heptones - Give me the right

Uniques - Conversation

 

I think those are all the ones I have on singles, coming next, 20 versions of You Don't Care rhythm.

 

Sorry to take this off topic-ish

[Guest Byrney]

^^^ what he said.

 

Rob, out of interest, what events are you talking about exactly? I go to modern soul events. People mix very well at many of them when it's the right material. They don't at northern/70's events as it doesn't work, as Byrney is saying

 

cheers Sutty

They do indeed, done it myself back In the 90s to a Northern / modern crowd once playing soulful house. Yogi For one can bang some mixes out but I'm guessing wouldn't with Northern at a Northern event.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Byrney

[Winsford Soul]

 

. In this respect it appears perilously close to presenting multiple ossified horizons of perspective, which can only result in eventual decay. 

 

 

        WTF !

 

Dave . Have you just introduced one of those devil's music r n b things. 

 

Steve

[Dave Rimmer]

Dave . Have you just introduced one of those devil's music r n b things. 

 

Steve

 

Steve, I have absolutely no idea what that quote from Rob means. I understand the concept of DJing, and think I am relatively successful at it, but really it's a simple concept.

 

You pick quality records, and put them together so that a set flows. If you have got it right, people dance !

Edited April 24, 2014 by Dave Rimmer

[Winsford Soul]

Steve, I have absolutely no idea what that quote from Rob means. I understand the concept of DJing, and think I am relatively successful at it, but really it's a simple concept.

 

You pick quality records, and put them together so that a set flows. If you have got it right, people dance !

I'm with you on that Dave on all counts of your post.

 

Steve

[KevH]

I'm getting worried that i'm not following the majority of the posts on this thread.

 

1) Am i too old.

 

2) Do i need the Samaritans.

 

3) Who's DJ Cheese.

[Len]

You pick quality records, and put them together so that a set flows. If you have got it right, people dance !

 

Doh!  

 

 

 

Len  

[Labeat]

I'm getting worried that i'm not following the majority of the posts on this thread.

 

1) Am i too old.

 

2) Do i need the Samaritans.

 

3) Who's DJ Cheese.

 

Kev, i asked Q3 in post 92, no answer, i think Rob is makin that one up!

[Labeat]

I have to admit being baffled by some/most of the terminology on here, some of you chaps are pretty clued up & knowledgeable which i respect

but the tunes played on the Northern circuit are mostly pretty basic sounding mono cuts.... the crowds are quite easy to please generally

so why try to make the records sound something they are not?

[KevH]

Kev, i asked Q3 in post 92, no answer, i think Rob is makin that one up!

 

I know the few times i've been behind the decks i get dj cheese.

[Guest Matt Male]

 

 

You pick quality records, and put them together so that a set flows. If you have got it right, people dance !

 

 

Bloody hell Dave, now everybody knows the secret!

[Guest Carl Dixon]

Labeat, a good point re trying to make the records something they are not.

 

I work in Sky's MCR, where nearly every single live signal, sound, Dolby and vision, for Sky Sports and Sky News, is checked before it goes on air, to ensure the viewer sees and hears consistency on the feature. The signals originate from all over the world. Some countries have terrible standards and send distorted audio, exceptionally bright and extremely colourful pictures. We sometimes equalise and tweak the levels so they fit certain parameters. To be honest these days with digital it is a lost art with television pictures/sound, but we do get out of phase audio sometimes because of mic issues at site. Surround sound has out of phase mics for example to get the rear speaker effect extrapolated from the main stereo mix. My point is MCR is the last point in the chain where something can be put right, similarly a DJ who knows his records and can make a difference when playing to an audience. Do I take it too seriously...yes! I think getting the gear with respectable levels in the first place is a massive step and I know that goes on for sure, and I benefit from that on the floor. Can you inmagine going to a live gig and the sound ops didn't care about levels? It would be a mess. Playing records is nothing like that, it's just a bit of fun....isn't it?

 

Indeed as a matter of interest I believe one of the Edwin Starr Ric Tic (Double O Soul, I think from memory) cuts has a serious out of phase element in it from it original recording or mixing etc. With a little processing that could probably be put right. Does it really make any difference? I guess not in the grand scheme of things, like said above, who can really tell the difference and do they care? My father in law cannot tell the difference between SD and HD TV! But if it doesn't make any difference why do I see so many DJ's twiddling knobs constantly at venues? Especially the volume lever after about 11pm when the audio starts to distort, rattle the speakers and force people to wear earplugs (which I have seen this year and on a young person!).

Edited April 24, 2014 by Carl Dixon

[Winsford Soul]

Labeat, a good point re trying to make the records something they are not.

 

I work in Sky's MCR, where nearly every single live signal, sound, Dolby and vision, for Sky Sports and Sky News, is checked before it goes on air, to ensure the viewer sees and hears consistency on the feature. The signals originate from all over the world. Some countries have terrible standards and send distorted audio, exceptionally bright and extremely colourful pictures. We sometimes equalise and tweak the levels so they fit certain parameters. To be honest these days with digital it is a lost art with television pictures/sound, but we do get out of phase audio sometimes because of mic issues at site. Surround sound has out of phase mics for example to get the rear speaker effect extrapolated from the main stereo mix. My point is MCR is the last point in the chain where something can be put right, similarly a DJ who knows his records and can make a difference when playing to an audience. Do I take it too seriously...yes! I think getting the gear with respectable levels in the first place is a massive step and I know that goes on for sure, and I benefit from that on the floor. Can you inmagine going to a live gig and the sound ops didn't care about levels? It would be a mess. Playing records is nothing like that, it's just a bit of fun....isn't it?

 

Indeed as a matter of interest I believe one of the Edwin Starr Ric Tic (Double O Soul, I think from memory) cuts has a serious out of phase element in it from it original recording or mixing etc. With a little processing that could probably be put right. Does it really make any difference? I guess not in the grand scheme of things, like said above, who can really tell the difference and do they care? My father in law cannot tell the difference between SD and HD TV! But if it doesn't make any difference why do I see so many DJ's twiddling knobs constantly at venues? Especially the volume lever after about 11pm when the audio starts to distort, rattle the speakers and force people to wear earplugs (which I have seen this year and on a young person!).

Carl. I thought  DJ,s where knobs that twiddled.    

 

Steve

[Mark R]

Nowt to do with Northern Soul, well not musically maybe but I would draw pleanty of other parallels, but for what it's worth here's my favourite bit of DJ'ing from the last year.........you have to stick with it though.......

It's an art form....... in this clip, when the tempo's at a minimum and a bit of echo is used the piano sounds like church bells....a totally different sound/instrument. ...........and with the lighting synched to the music the effect is stunning.........every record can sound a little different each time it's played. ..........stop the crowd, make them think WTF is he doing now.......and then bang........the hands go up and the whistles of appreciation start.

Maybe you had to be there.......just an awesome passage

of DJ'ing for me.....hopefully I'll witness something to trump this in two weeks time! :-)

Cheers,

Mark R

Edited April 24, 2014 by Mark R

[Labeat]

When Soul Sam DJ's he constantly tweeks all the knobs.... he doesn't actually move them..... but it looks good.... Psychology

[Ian Dewhirst]

I've been following this thread with some interest 'cos I'm into lots of different scenes but I'm predominantly into great Black/Dance music. I think it's more or less impossible to really compare the Northern Soul scene with some of the later dance orientated scenes. For a start, Northern Soul pre-dates the main Disco/Mixing eras by 5 years at least. Plus the records which were released in the 60's were seldom longer than 3 minutes and were designed for radio play rather than club play - that's why Motown records were mixed with the vocals, snare, bass and tambourine way up in the mix so they'd sound great over a 3 inch Japanese transistor radio speaker.

 

It wasn't until the early to mid 70's when producers started cutting longer tracks and exploring the world beyond the 3 minute single. The Temptations' "Papa Was A Rolling Stone" was the record which started people thinking beyond the parameters of a 3 minute radio mix. Eddie Kendricks' "Keep On Trucking" and Creative Source's "Who Is He And What Is He To You" kept the ball rolling. By 1975, Gamble and Huff and Tom Moulton were massively influencing the way records would be crafted for the clubs. The rest is history really.

 

It's very, very difficult to compare Northern Soul DJs with traditional DJs. Two different animals really. It's very seldom that I hear a beautifully crafted, perfectly constructed Northern Soul set because most Northern Soul DJs are not particularly skilled in the art of dee-jaying to any other audiences. If I'm looking for musically integrated technical dee-jaying skills the last place I would go would go would be a Northern gig. I've seen the greatest DJs of all-time playing out since 1969, so I know who's right up there at the pinnacle of musical and atmosphere skills and they wouldn't include any of the Northern Soul greats. Completely different skills I'm afraid

 

When I go to Northern, Modern or Across The Board type gigs, I'm more interested in the record selection skills of whoever's playing rather than their ability to mix 3 minute records into each other to be honest. Different strokes for different folks and seldom the twain will meet.

 

Ian D

[Mark R]

I've been following this thread with some interest 'cos I'm into lots of different scenes but I'm predominantly into great Black/Dance music. I think it's more or less impossible to really compare the Northern Soul scene with some of the later dance orientated scenes. For a start, Northern Soul pre-dates the main Disco/Mixing eras by 5 years at least. Plus the records which were released in the 60's were seldom longer than 3 minutes and were designed for radio play rather than club play - that's why Motown records were mixed with the vocals, snare, bass and tambourine way up in the mix so they'd sound great over a 3 inch Japanese transistor radio speaker.

It wasn't until the early to mid 70's when producers started cutting longer tracks and exploring the world beyond the 3 minute single. The Temptations' "Papa Was A Rolling Stone" was the record which started people thinking beyond the parameters of a 3 minute radio mix. Eddie Kendricks' "Keep On Trucking" and Creative Source's "Who Is He And What Is He To You" kept the ball rolling. By 1975, Gamble and Huff and Tom Moulton were massively influencing the way records would be crafted for the clubs. The rest is history really.

Ian D

Are you forgetting Francis Grasso and his 12 hr sets of 45's Ian.......using 2 copies of the same tune to extend them etc.......

Cheers,

Mark R

Edited April 24, 2014 by Mark R

[Alison H]

Nowt to do with Northern Soul, well not musically maybe but I would draw pleanty of other parallels, but for what it's worth here's my favourite bit of DJ'ing from the last year.........you have to stick with it though.......

It's an art form....... in this clip, when the tempo's at a minimum and a bit of echo is used the piano sounds like church bells....a totally different sound/instrument. ...........and with the lighting synched to the music the effect is stunning.........every record can sound a little different each time it's played. ..........stop the crowd, make them think WTF is he doing now.......and then bang........the hands go up and the whistles of appreciation start.

Maybe you had to be there.......just an awesome passage

of DJ'ing for me.....hopefully I'll witness something to trump this in two weeks time! :-)

Cheers,

Mark R

 

Hi Mark

 

I was too shattered to fully appreciate that fine set on the Sunday afternoon, however my favourite part of dj-ing from that weekend, was when the dj went that little bit further, stepped in front of the decks, & started singing (not too badly either   )

 

I'm not in favour of karaoke dj's (especially if they sing like Mace ), just this one was the business ... & I salute you (well wave my arms in the air)  DJ Spen, his partner in crime, Karizma, along with my boyfriend Kerri Chandler, bringing up the rear.  3 superb dj's on the one stage, immense it was   & how I didn't pass out is a miracle.

 

See you in a couple of weeks time Mark for more of the same 

 

 

https://youtu.be/Vncf0QPC2iE

 

 

We don't have moves like Jagger, but we got House Music swagger 

Edited April 24, 2014 by Alison H

[Ian Dewhirst]

Are you forgetting Francis Grasso and his 12 hr sets of 45's Ian.......using 2 copies of the same tune to extend them etc.......

Cheers,

Mark R

 

 

An early pioneer without a doubt. I just re-checked him out and I didn't realise he was as early as he was. First DJ to use headphones by all accounts too, so he deserves a lot of credit........

 

Good call mate!

 

Ian D

[Mark R]

What an afternoon Ali.......

Cheers,

Mark R

[Alison H]

What an afternoon Ali.......

IMG_330682139677764.jpeg

Cheers,

Mark R

 

 

 You jammy so & so!!!!! 

 

Great photo Mark 

 

Ali 

[pow wow mik]

https://www.plainenglish.co.uk/campaigning/awards/2012-awards/golden-bull-awards.html

I'm nominating him

. In this respect it appears perilously close to presenting multiple ossified horizons of perspective, which can only result in eventual decay. 

 

         WTF !

[pow wow mik]

Multiple versions of reggae records are not boring to listen too. But this thread is boring!!!

It's cos no one, including the thread starter, knows what it's about.

However, i firmly believe that the framus interestects with the ramistan approximately at the paternoster

[Geeselad]

Yup, all great DJs, buy why wouldn't you want to see if it could be done in a way that remained concerned with keeping the dancefloor moving?

 

Rob Alias 

I'd love to rob, just cant see it happening on the ns scene, a lot of punters just plain wouldn't get it, its a generational thing. if your in your 50's,with no insight into house or hip hop the very concept of the mix can be quite an alien thing. I grew up with house and hip hop but there's not enough open minded punters out there who would appreciate or dance to a mixed northern set at a venue. I also believe the archaic nature of the soul scene's culture adds to its appea,l for many, including the younger scenesters. A rejection of the contemporary, or the act of refusing to conform to modernity lies at the very heart of what NS is about surely? So why should it seems so strange that this attitude extends to even the presentation of the music?

[Guest Rob Alias]

It's cos no one, including the thread starter, knows what it's about.

However, i firmly believe that the framus interestects with the ramistan approximately at the paternoster

 

I try, whenever possible, not to be rude to people unless they really deserve it. When adults are talking children should be seen and not heard. If you do not understand simply ask and I will try to explain further, but it might be wise to consider that your level of understanding might simply need some development in order to keep up.

 

Rob Alias

[Guest john s]

Actually, Rob, he's kind of taking the piss. 

Edited April 24, 2014 by john s

[Geeselad]

Hi Mark

 

I was too shattered to fully appreciate that fine set on the Sunday afternoon, however my favourite part of dj-ing from that weekend, was when the dj went that little bit further, stepped in front of the decks, & started singing (not too badly either   )

 

I'm not in favour of karaoke dj's (especially if they sing like Mace ), just this one was the business ... & I salute you (well wave my arms in the air)  DJ Spen, his partner in crime, Karizma, along with my boyfriend Kerri Chandler, bringing up the rear.  3 superb dj's on the one stage, immense it was   & how I didn't pass out is a miracle.

 

See you in a couple of weeks time Mark for more of the same 

 

 

https://youtu.be/Vncf0QPC2iE

 

 

We don't have moves like Jagger, but we got House Music swagger 

been pondering this for ages, are they singing about frankie, in the tune? 'lets give thanks to the one who started it all' thats how  ive always read it anway. wish I been to this and I just gotta go this year. 

[Guest Rob Alias]

I'd love to rob, just cant see it happening on the ns scene, a lot of punters just plain wouldn't get it, its a generational thing. if your in your 50's,with no insight into house or hip hop the very concept of the mix can be quite an alien thing. I grew up with house and hip hop but there's not enough open minded punters out there who would appreciate or dance to a mixed northern set at a venue. I also believe the archaic nature of the soul scene's culture adds to its appea,l for many, including the younger scenesters. A rejection of the contemporary, or the act of refusing to conform to modernity lies at the very heart of what NS is about surely? So why should it seems so strange that this attitude extends to even the presentation of the music?

 

I think that you really get one of the points that I was attempting to make. In comparison to the DJing skills expected in other genres it would appear that Northern Soul fans have very clearly defined ideas in respect of what is acceptable and what is not. I wonder that a scene essentially established on nostalgia has failed to embrace, and in some circumstances even acknowledge, many of the wider technical technical developments that have developed elsewhere which could, possibly, be utillised within the NS scene, perhaps helping to keep it re-invigorated for younger people (who will be needed if the genre is to survive).

 

What is clear is that many appear to have misunderstood the reason behind the video of DJ Cheese, a Disco Mix Club (DMC) World Champion. That was a routine from 1986, which ellicited hostility at the time because of the particulalry technical nature of the presentation, particularly from European DJs. This seemes very odd when you consider the development of DJing within the context of Hip Hop, extending from Grandmaster Flash to Kool Herc and Africa Baambaata. DJing has developed over the years, particularly within the sphere of Hip Hop and later musical genres, and there is certainly an argument to be had regarding the point at which technical skills become the preserve of a self-appointed musical cognoscenti with little relation to the original point of their development, to keep the dancefloor moving by developing the break or particularly popular section of a record.

 

Sadly it appears that the general attitude appears to be, 'it isn't broke so it doesn't need fixing', thereby wishing to ensure that the scene remains locked within very strict limitations of acceptance. Ian Dewhirst, someone whom I respect greatly (if not always agree with), appears to consider that this is simply the case, and will always be the case. In a different vein another poster appeared to take issue with the potential social examination of the NS scene, which is certainly interesting as an example of a particular moment within white working class culture (even though some of the DJs involved appear to have been resolutely middle class). There are so many interesting questions regarding this point, the fact that NS was and remains a predominantly white musical scene, based on the fetishization of black music, from within a particular period, much of which had simply been passed by, or had been ignored or judged second rate by the audiences for whom it would have been originally intended.  'Keeping the Faith' might be interpreted as 'Keeping It As It Was And Ever Shall Be' - no exceptions allowed, in a form of musical puritanism and elitism. Moreover, if NS is about soul music from a particular period, operating according to a particularly specific musical aesthetic (according to specific 'tastemakers') then this raises the question - the form from which it draws is necessarily finite, unless you allow for pastiche or parody?

 

My wider question appears to have been recognised in the form of some disquiet regarding the alleged technical abilities of DJs involved in the scene, even involving simple matters of accepted DJ etiquette (needles etc). In 2014 this simply appears ridiculous!

 

Perhaps you are right and the issue is essentially generational. I am of that generation which has had the luxury of being exposed to the developing art of the DJ over time (thank you 'Street Sounds', DMC, Froggy, Mastermind, Roger Johnson, Mike Allen etc), whilst also having been exposed to all forms of black music and beyond. I am also of the generation not scared of the lap top and the possibilities that it opens up in respect of editing, remixing etc.

 

Rob Alias

[Guest Dave Ward]

Deleted, because when I eventually get banned from this site, I'd like to make it memorable.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Dave Ward

[Guest Rob Alias]

I must admit to being a complete piss taker, with a degree in sarcasm and off-the-wall humour. However, If Rob and Co admit that this was the best wind-up ever, I will take my frigging hat off to them. But, if they are, truly serious and they have either bred, or intend to breed, then the human race is fucked.

 

Sorry Dave, but if the future of the human race depends on a form of socially and culturally dependent musical (and materialist - one for the Marxists!) elitism, ignorant of class, dependent on a particular ossified aesthetic, unable (or unwilling) to engage (or accept) the possibility of alternatives then the only thing that will be fucked is NS.

 

Unless, of course, you are the type of person to wet your pants at the fact of Paul Mason (erstwhile former 'Newsnight' presenter and thoroughly confused regarding class and deliberately blind in respect of race) presenting a short piece on the (absolutely white, middle class, metropolitan-centric BBC). 

 

Rob Alias

[Guest Matt Male]

I think that you really get one of the points that I was attempting to make. In comparison to the DJing skills expected in other genres it would appear that Northern Soul fans have very clearly defined ideas in respect of what is acceptable and what is not. I wonder that a scene essentially established on nostalgia has failed to embrace, and in some circumstances even acknowledge, many of the wider technical technical developments that have developed elsewhere which could, possibly, be utillised within the NS scene, perhaps helping to keep it re-invigorated for younger people (who will be needed if the genre is to survive).

 

What is clear is that many appear to have misunderstood the reason behind the video of DJ Cheese, a Disco Mix Club (DMC) World Champion. That was a routine from 1986, which ellicited hostility at the time because of the particulalry technical nature of the presentation, particularly from European DJs. This seemes very odd when you consider the development of DJing within the context of Hip Hop, extending from Grandmaster Flash to Kool Herc and Africa Baambaata. DJing has developed over the years, particularly within the sphere of Hip Hop and later musical genres, and there is certainly an argument to be had regarding the point at which technical skills become the preserve of a self-appointed musical cognoscenti with little relation to the original point of their development, to keep the dancefloor moving by developing the break or particularly popular section of a record.

 

Sadly it appears that the general attitude appears to be, 'it isn't broke so it doesn't need fixing', thereby wishing to ensure that the scene remains locked within very strict limitations of acceptance. Ian Dewhirst, someone whom I respect greatly (if not always agree with), appears to consider that this is simply the case, and will always be the case. In a different vein another poster appeared to take issue with the potential social examination of the NS scene, which is certainly interesting as an example of a particular moment within white working class culture (even though some of the DJs involved appear to have been resolutely middle class). There are so many interesting questions regarding this point, the fact that NS was and remains a predominantly white musical scene, based on the fetishization of black music, from within a particular period, much of which had simply been passed by, or had been ignored or judged second rate by the audiences for whom it would have been originally intended.  'Keeping the Faith' might be interpreted as 'Keeping It As It Was And Ever Shall Be' - no exceptions allowed, in a form of musical puritanism and elitism. Moreover, if NS is about soul music from a particular period, operating according to a particularly specific musical aesthetic (according to specific 'tastemakers') then this raises the question - the form from which it draws is necessarily finite, unless you allow for pastiche or parody?

 

My wider question appears to have been recognised in the form of some disquiet regarding the alleged technical abilities of DJs involved in the scene, even involving simple matters of accepted DJ etiquette (needles etc). In 2014 this simply appears ridiculous!

 

Perhaps you are right and the issue is essentially generational. I am of that generation which has had the luxury of being exposed to the developing art of the DJ over time (thank you 'Street Sounds', DMC, Froggy, Mastermind, Roger Johnson, Mike Allen etc), whilst also having been exposed to all forms of black music and beyond. I am also of the generation not scared of the lap top and the possibilities that it opens up in respect of editing, remixing etc.

 

Rob Alias

 

 

To be honest I find it pretty patronising to be told that because I quite like to hear breaks between records and they don't all mix into one continuous stream with the beats following one after the other then I am somehow scared of technology and the potential it brings, and I have failed in embracing new technical developments. Many of us like to use original vinyl and place one record on after another and you like to mix it on your laptop without breaks. Why are we wrong?

 

I have experienced continuous mixes developing breaks as you say and one record merging into the next and it was one of the worst experiences I've ever had at a soul night. I was bored stiff listening to what sounded like the same record for half an hour, so personally I don't see it as progress at all and it didn't keep the dance floor moving because everyone was fed up with it.

 

According to your post we're a bunch of stupid elitist luddites. Cheers for that.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Matt Male

[Guest Dave Ward]

I apologise Rob, Please invite me round to your cell for a chat.

[Guest Rob Alias]

To be honest I find it pretty patronising to be told that because I quite like to hear breaks between records and they don't all mix into one continuous stream with the beats following one after the other then I am somehow scared of technology and the potential it brings, and I have failed in embracing new technical developments. Many of us like to use original vinyl and place one record on after another and you like to mix it on your laptop without breaks. Why are we wrong?

 

I have experienced continuous mixes developing breaks as you say and one record merging into the next and it was one of the worst experiences I've ever had at a soul night. I was bored stiff listening to what sounded like the same record for half an hour, so personally I don't see it as progress at all and it didn't keep the dance floor moving because everyone was fed up with it.

 

According to your post we're a bunch of stupid elitist luddites. Cheers for that.

 

In this instance Matt you deliberately miss the point in an attempt to 'score points', and attempt to set up an obvious dichotomy. Maybe you should just accept that there are DJs who can engage with music across vinyl, cd, and digital with equal competence? Perhaps you should consider how such tools could be put to the service of NS, to widen its appeal, and extend the longevity of the scene (thereby hoping to expose more people to the fantastic music that is to be found).

 

Or maybe things should just stay the same?

 

Rob Alias

[Guest Rob Alias]

I apologise Rob, Please invite me round to your cell for a chat.

 

No Dave, just invite me for a pint of ale.

 

And DJ lessons.

 

Rob Alias

Edited April 24, 2014 by Rob Alias

[Guest Matt Male]

In this instance Matt you deliberately miss the point in an attempt to 'score points', and attempt to set up an obvious dichotomy. Maybe you should just accept that there are DJs who can engage with music across vinyl, cd, and digital with equal competence? Perhaps you should consider how such tools could be put to the service of NS, to widen its appeal, and extend the longevity of the scene (thereby hoping to expose more people to the fantastic music that is to be found).

 

Or maybe things should just stay the same?

 

Rob Alias

 

No, yes, no, and yes.

[Guest Dave Ward]

Thanks for the offer of the DJ lessons, but what do we do in the afternoon ?

Edited April 25, 2014 by Dave Ward

[Guest Rob Alias]

Thanks for the offer of the DJ lessons, but what do we do in the afternoon ?

 

I rather suspect that the morning might be taken up with an introduction to the 'on /off' button of the turntable, followed by an hour of the 'crossfade' (and the various settings attached thereto), followed by an introduction to levels (red are bad), an introduction to cartridge alignment, and, if you show promise, an introduction to beat mixing. I would usually start with a 4/4 house intro as if you can't mix house music then you would never be able to make your own Yorkshire Pudding either. House music to mixing is as a breast to feeding a child.

 

If that proved too difficult then you might just fail the class. But I would still claim my ale.

 

Rob Alias

 

[Labeat]

Thanks for the offer of the DJ lessons, but what do we do in the afternoon ?

 

Cuddle up on the couch!

[Alison H]

been pondering this for ages, are they singing about frankie, in the tune? 'lets give thanks to the one who started it all' thats how  ive always read it anway. wish I been to this and I just gotta go this year.

I always thought Mass Order had God in mind, but when you listen to DJ Spen put his own touch on it, it is quite apt for the House God

Not sure if you've heard yet, but the Southport Weekenders are coming home (yipeee!!) in October (for a one off weekender), to the old Pontins site so get booked for that as soon as you can

[Geeselad]

I always thought Mass Order had God in mind, but when you listen to DJ Spen put his own touch on it, it is quite apt for the House God

Not sure if you've heard yet, but the Southport Weekenders are coming home (yipeee!!) in October (for a one off weekender), to the old Pontins site so get booked for that as soon as you can

sounds essential, will do my upmost to be there, thanks for letting me know allison.

[Geeselad]

I rather suspect that the morning might be taken up with an introduction to the 'on /off' button of the turntable, followed by an hour of the 'crossfade' (and the various settings attached thereto), followed by an introduction to levels (red are bad), an introduction to cartridge alignment, and, if you show promise, an introduction to beat mixing. I would usually start with a 4/4 house intro as if you can't mix house music then you would never be able to make your own Yorkshire Pudding either. House music to mixing is as a breast to feeding a child.

 

If that proved too difficult then you might just fail the class. But I would still claim my ale.

 

Rob Alias

 

compared to mixing disco, soul and funk, house is peasy but most kids (anyone below 30 in my book) shrivel at the though of using proper vinyl, as opposed to cdj's or seratto/ tractor. 

[pow wow mik]

I try, whenever possible, not to be rude to people unless they really deserve it. When adults are talking children should be seen and not heard. If you do not understand simply ask and I will try to explain further, but it might be wise to consider that your level of understanding might simply need some development in order to keep up.

 

Rob Alias

 

I know that you want that to be the case. I know that you want to be the deep, interesting guy, intellectual yet soulful, armed with incisive cultural analysis. I know that you want me to be the simple idiot - intimidated by language, hostile to what I don't understand. But unfortunately reality isn't always as we'd like it to be.

My own development, as you bring it up, has included the study and understanding, more or less, of the writing of Nietzsche, Kant and Hegel etc. so it's not that i'm averse to difficult language or complex issues.

So, if I came across critical, it's not of elaborate language, but of over-elaborate language used in an unnatural, overly studied, long-winded manner used to disguise a lack of meaning or to make a pretty banal point seem contentious or profound.

You write as no one thinks or speaks, as if you're writing an essay for GCSE sociology while cuddling a thesaurus. I don't want to be rude either, but it is actually offensive as it comes across as pretentious and somewhat pompous.

As far as I can tell, you're saying that the northern soul scene, by wilfully ignoring the technical advances made by DJs of other cultures, has failed to...no, has caused...no,...

what are the effects again, of either progressing or not progressing in this particularly trivial area?

I am interested in culture as you seem to be, and I hate to bring up my own development again, but one thing I have learned is that it doesn't stand up to much analysis or theorising, as much as white journalists wish it did.

This is why there isn't really anything worth reading on the subject of music, records or DJing... why the great thinkers tend to stick to abstract subjects, or at least have more success with them...and why it was so ridiculous of you to approach such an issue in such a forced scholarly style.

I appreciate and respect your opinions, please express them as you would if we were talking in a pub, and you might not make such a knob of yourself.

Mik

[pow wow mik]

I think that you really get one of the points that I was attempting to make. In comparison to the DJing skills expected in other genres it would appear that Northern Soul fans have very clearly defined ideas in respect of what is acceptable and what is not. I wonder that a scene essentially established on nostalgia has failed to embrace, and in some circumstances even acknowledge, many of the wider technical technical developments that have developed elsewhere which could, possibly, be utillised within the NS scene, perhaps helping to keep it re-invigorated for younger people (who will be needed if the genre is to survive).

 

What is clear is that many appear to have misunderstood the reason behind the video of DJ Cheese, a Disco Mix Club (DMC) World Champion. That was a routine from 1986, which ellicited hostility at the time because of the particulalry technical nature of the presentation, particularly from European DJs. This seemes very odd when you consider the development of DJing within the context of Hip Hop, extending from Grandmaster Flash to Kool Herc and Africa Baambaata. DJing has developed over the years, particularly within the sphere of Hip Hop and later musical genres, and there is certainly an argument to be had regarding the point at which technical skills become the preserve of a self-appointed musical cognoscenti with little relation to the original point of their development, to keep the dancefloor moving by developing the break or particularly popular section of a record.

 

Sadly it appears that the general attitude appears to be, 'it isn't broke so it doesn't need fixing', thereby wishing to ensure that the scene remains locked within very strict limitations of acceptance. Ian Dewhirst, someone whom I respect greatly (if not always agree with), appears to consider that this is simply the case, and will always be the case. In a different vein another poster appeared to take issue with the potential social examination of the NS scene, which is certainly interesting as an example of a particular moment within white working class culture (even though some of the DJs involved appear to have been resolutely middle class). There are so many interesting questions regarding this point, the fact that NS was and remains a predominantly white musical scene, based on the fetishization of black music, from within a particular period, much of which had simply been passed by, or had been ignored or judged second rate by the audiences for whom it would have been originally intended.  'Keeping the Faith' might be interpreted as 'Keeping It As It Was And Ever Shall Be' - no exceptions allowed, in a form of musical puritanism and elitism. Moreover, if NS is about soul music from a particular period, operating according to a particularly specific musical aesthetic (according to specific 'tastemakers') then this raises the question - the form from which it draws is necessarily finite, unless you allow for pastiche or parody?

 

My wider question appears to have been recognised in the form of some disquiet regarding the alleged technical abilities of DJs involved in the scene, even involving simple matters of accepted DJ etiquette (needles etc). In 2014 this simply appears ridiculous!

 

Perhaps you are right and the issue is essentially generational. I am of that generation which has had the luxury of being exposed to the developing art of the DJ over time (thank you 'Street Sounds', DMC, Froggy, Mastermind, Roger Johnson, Mike Allen etc), whilst also having been exposed to all forms of black music and beyond. I am also of the generation not scared of the lap top and the possibilities that it opens up in respect of editing, remixing etc.

 

Rob Alias

 

Ok, just to prove I do actually read, and am interested in, what you have to say:

I think the fundamental mistake you make is to give the northern soul scene the nature of an organisation, with rules and leaders.

It isn't. It has evolved one way because people, voting with their feet over the decades, refreshingly free of outside influence, wanted it to be that way. Those that didn't left and did other shit. A lot of people did other shit at the same time, it's particularly condescending to assume that everyone who goes to soul dos is somehow backward, are people who go for walks also thus?

If you want to get pretentious about it, it's the ultimate in democratic folk culture, or as Paul Sadot said recently on here I think, 'anarchistic' folk culture;

You think the DJing on the northern scene is lacking somehow, and that the music and enjoyment of it, would be enhanced or progressed by doing it a different way, then do it...

You are free to and there is no rule to say you can't....your argument seems to extend to 'why do people who like one thing not like another thing'.

there really isn't anything more to say. It will progress or it wont, maybe it just will when it needs to and doesn't need telling to? like it always has.

[Mal C]

Nowt to do with Northern Soul, well not musically maybe but I would draw pleanty of other parallels, but for what it's worth here's my favourite bit of DJ'ing from the last year.........you have to stick with it though.......

It's an art form....... in this clip, when the tempo's at a minimum and a bit of echo is used the piano sounds like church bells....a totally different sound/instrument. ...........and with the lighting synched to the music the effect is stunning.........every record can sound a little different each time it's played. ..........stop the crowd, make them think WTF is he doing now.......and then bang........the hands go up and the whistles of appreciation start.

Maybe you had to be there.......just an awesome passage

of DJ'ing for me.....hopefully I'll witness something to trump this in two weeks time! :-)

Cheers,

Mark R

Those Guys - Tonight, what a track that is, follow it up with Don Carlos, and your on your way!!! Looks like a good night....

 

mal